sellers trying to sell used product for 10-20% off of list price
I don’t get it. Almost any item here can be bought brand new from a dealer with a full warranty for 20% off - virtually any and all high end product. Some can be bought for close to 30% percent off. Sellers trying to sell year old product for 20% off are delusional, perhaps hoping for someone to naively buy it at their price but I doubt it happens. If the product isn’t in the range of 40-50% off of MSRP I'm not sure why anyone would buy it as often the warranty doesn’t transfer. Factor in sellers asking for 5-6% extra for Paypal plus shipping charges and even a 30% percent discount really is more like 15% off of list- a non starter. Am I the only one doing this math ? I can buy brand new at 25-30% with no extra charge for using paypal or my credit card and minimal shipping. Asking for a friend lol.
Over the few years I've been an Audiogon user, I've been surprised that people list prices for their used equipment so high; most of the time I see those listings just languish, sometimes not.
What's anything worth? Just what someone is willing to pay for it!
The way the real estate market these days where we live, it's difficult for me to say what something is actually "worth".
I would split this between Dealers who are offering products that are Demos or lines they actively carry vs. hobbyists. Some manufacturers have rules in how you list used goods. Some prohibit it altogether. You follow the rules or lose the line.
In the end, a listing is just based on what the market will pay. I just listed a used Hegel H390 (I am not a hegel dealer) for 20% off. It sold in 2 hours at a small discount from that. I look at recent sales in the Bluebook, other listings (TY HiFi Shark) and prices are driven by those recent sales.
You can complain about the prices but if stuff is selling...
You know this really isn’t a big problem. I think that it is not needed for the OP to whin about this in a forum, especially since he has a retail history. If a seller has mispriced their item they will find out when it doesn’t sell. No need to complain about it. But here is an idea: make an offer! Negotiate. If you think the price is too high and you have checked the usual sites to see what the market value really is, than ask the seller why they are asking what they are asking. They might just tell you. You lose nothing by doing so. This reminds me of a couple of quotes: “if you don’t ask, you don’t get” and the one from Wayne Gretzky: “You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.”
Buyer beware.There are people out there who think they have gold .Like people selling vinyl lps for hundreds of dollars because it's a Beatles album.They know nothing about condition, pressing ,they just see Beatles and think they have Gold.
A customer owes a retailer nothing, other than to pay the agreed upon price. You are not obliged to sell it to them at a reduced price.
Your post is sour grapes. You think you have it bad in retail? Try business to business. The OP represents virtually every customer.
MFRs and Retailers set prices not on what a product is worth, but on what they think they can charge for it. Given that situation, how can you fault a customer that negotiates for a lower price. He has no obligation to take food off his table and put it on yours.
ed Oct 12, 2019roxy542,927 posts10-12-2019 6:29pmExcuse me for saying so OP, but I am in retail and I can smell your type from a mile away. You are the type of difficult customer that no retailer wants, but sells to anyway for a couple of reasons. 1) They're having a bad week and it's a big ticket item, or it's been in the store too long anyway. 2) To shut you up an get rid of you, because there aren't too many like you, just a few percentage wise and you serve a purpose once in a while, however unpleasant. You're the type that wants to get the lowest price, fair or unfair, seller be damned. But of course you always will find a seller. The rest of us see it a little differently.
As the recent owner of a MR-85 I can tell ya $2 k offers would have made me dance in aisles... but to each his own.... I did trade it for a minty pair of Theil 2.3 in cherry.... sometimes a trade is best
Richard Modaferi modified my Mx-110 at Audio classics and it certainly equals the MR-85
you got a great deal...tuner prices are quite variable these days, so nothing to lose by asking high price but accepting offers...having a Don Scott modified MR-74 I've mostly lost track of the tuner market, and am sometimes shocked at both the high and low prices the classics sell for...
Then I got one hell of a bargain! It is a decent tuner but no where as good as my MR88.. I replaced a Magnum Dynalab MD90 and Signal Sleuth with the MR85. The MR 85 doesn't sound quite as good, but close to the Magnum combo. I only bought it to match the rest of the McIntosh stack in my other system. I guess I should call Mike Sastra @ AC and thank him for such a great deal!
I stand corrected from my above post. Never in a million years would I have thought that tuner is still worth that kind of money.
Sorry to disappoint, but the current market asking price and closed auction/sale price for an MR-85 mac tuner, does indeed support his pricing, which is right in the middle. Not high, not low, but right in the middle.
There is a online audio vendor trying to sell a McIntosh MR85 Tuner in a wood case for $2500.00! That price is retail not including the $400.00 wood case. I bought one 2 years ago from Audio Classics in minty condition for $825.00! This is from the same vendor that has blocked me.
I've stopped listing things at reasonable prices since the bottom feeders will offer me 50% of what I'm asking. Frankly Audiogon has become a toilet bowl of lowballers. Part of this pricing BS is I'm sorry to say folks that want to steal stuff to ship to Asia to make a profit. Back in the day people were happy to get a mint item for half price.. I wish I could buy a nice 2 year old 911 for half price HAHAHAHAHA!
Absolutely. That is exactly how it is nowadays. It's a known fact in retail, and even in reseller circles. That putting something on "sale", even if it's available elsewhere (or even the same site, think Ebay/Amazon) for less, will sell your item. People jump at the word sale, even if it's not really. How many people actually look at the unit price on a supermarket for instance?
And since they now expect a deal on everything, and it's considerably easier for people to be brave with negotiating tactics online, as opposed to in person or even on the phone. Now everyone throws out low balls all day, and beat up the sellers. How many ads have you seen that say "low ballers will be ignored" on Craigslist for instance? My point here is that those people are most surely not selling their gear at their asking price, and it's only a starting point. Unless they get lucky that is.
We have entered an age of marketing in which every seller expects that the buyer will offer them 25%-30% lower than the posted price. So they jack up the price to ridiculous number and when they drop down to a reasonable price the customer is supposed to think he got a bargain. Its not just here. Go into retail store. Everything is on sale with 25%, 30. 40% off. Its not really a sale nor is the MSRP the real price. But everyone loves a bargain. So you play the game. Look at the advertised msrp. Most of the time its exorbitant. No one would pay that price. But when you get the 25-30% off you can brag about how good a deal you got on that Item.
I do not buy or sell on Audiogon, as I live in Canada. I do buy and sell on Canuck Audio Mart though, and have noticed a spiraling trend lately. I used to always list my gear at what I considered a reasonable resale price. Most of the time I would get, or close to my asking price. These days though, I find that lowballing is the norm. I tend to get ridiculous offers that I do not bother responding to. So now I tend to advertise at a price point that is too high, and negotiate down from there.
Don't like the asking price ? Either make an offer, or ignore the listing. Instead you take the time to post about your displeasure. Why are you wasting your time ?
Selling an item less than a month old doesn't warrant 50%. If they don't like buying something practically new then let them go to a dealer and pay for it.
following my watched list, I'm often shocked how high some used gear sells for, as well as how many low ball offers are accepted...there is a surprising amount of year old gear at super high prices...but there are also a lot of amateur sellers as well as sellers simply expecting an offer well below their asking price...as said above, make an offer or pass it by...
iv'e been trying to buy second hand nighthawks for a few months most sellers asking 200-300 for a used pair when they are 250 new with free shipping. so i gave up and bought an open box item with warranty for 200 . i like the audiogon board since i can always make an offer. when i bought my guitar amp it took me 8 months (almost everyday at reverb and ebay)to find the right amp at the right price .be patient and make offers if you really should have it will be there at the right condition and price eventually(i hope...). loved that guy who said he could smell you....too many years serving costumers so when they are outside the store they can unleash that pure hate that's been building up
I completely agree with the OP. The B&M shops I frequent I'm up front with so I don't waste their time and they can show me the products I can afford, floor models etc. When I see used items here for -20% I just assume they're new to the game and the lowballers will straighten them out. Shipping, paypal, and AG fees will add at least 10% and around here most dealers charge exactly 50% list for used trade ins.
A friend of mine was selling a car asking $6000. It was, by all accounts, as low as anyone could ask for it. The car was nothing fancy and is relatively rare on the streets. To make it even more unusual, it had manual transmission. If you wanted that kind, you really had to look for it and wait until one showed up. He posted ads somewhere, Internet and some print. Three phone calls. Everybody wanted a discount, offering $5000 or so. He did not budge and gave up the idea of selling it.
A couple of weeks later, another friend, more experienced with car sales, told him to list it for $7200. "Barely anyone was interested for $6000 and nobody wanted to give that much, who would be interested at $7200?" Still, he listened and listed for $7200. He was overwhelmed with calls. People were insisting to buy it, sight unseen. In the end, he told three first callers/prospective buyers that the first one to come to pick it up will get it. The buyer said he had been looking for that kind of car for a while. It sold for $6500 and the buyer was very happy to have gotten a discount.
Sell high ...buy low..always ask more because nobody will pay more than what you ask. Can always go down but not up as a seller. If you don’t like the price move on as a buyer, there will always be another for sale.
@cowan217 I empathize with your premise. On the flip side, there are plenty of low ballers who want to offer a seller 30-50% of their asking price. That is also frustrating. All of this is what makes a market. The Audiogon Bluebook is a handy tool. Also doing research as to sold sales on eBay and possibly elsewhere helps. If I run into a seller who is unrealistic as to their asking price, I try to educate them politely and provide evidence. Sometimes that helps. Sometimes not and I see their listing remaining unsold over time.
I agree with Ihasaguy, this topic is way to general. Some gear has good margin and some dealers are willing to give a decent discount. Others not so much, or pricing is policed heavily by manufacturers and their distributors.
High end audio is much like cars. Drive it off the lot they lose value unless the car is highly sought after. That being said, much like cars, in audio there are ways to work something out with dealers, such as better trade in values etc. if you can get them to discount the item for various reasons.
In my view, 10% on a used item that isn’t highly coveted seems a bit low, and at some point may make sense to just buy new to get full warranty.
I just paid full price for a pair of Magnepan 3.7i. I would love to see where I could have purchased them for 30% off! I am totally happy paying full price and can trade them in a year and get ALL my money back on a trade. What does a discount sound like?
"Glupson- do you want my resume or Linkedin profile, my marriage records, bank accounts, tax statements? lol- "
Not at all. I was simply curious how come you have quit something that you still have very strong feelings about. To the point of starting a thread about something that is so simple.
I am not sure there is any 9-store high-end equipment chain left in the Northeastern U.S.A. (if that is where your chain was) so the only conclusion we can draw is that business model was not that successful.
Maybe resume would really be in order, now when I think about it.
Lumping all gear together is a major mistake in terms of pricing. McIntosh discounts for new products are rare and their used gear holds its value better than the market for amps, pre amps and tube gear.
There are high end products that sell at a discount to be sure, but not all so.
The price of used gear is a good reference to the discount available for new gear.
A seller can ask whatever they want. That does not mean it will sell at that price. I see things on ebay that are listed well above “list” and wonder what’s that all about. But since it doesn’t affect me- I just move on.
I have lived in the Northeast for 65 years and NEVER heard of a 9 store high end chain. Tweeter hi fi doesn't count as they sold mid fi at best. So, what was the chain called? Crazy Eddy, Korvetts?
It depends on what the item is...The KEF LS50 sell all day long at nearly full price. If you have something nobody wants then it will be sold at a large discount or no one will buy it. If you want cheap pick something no one wants.
Opps. I have a pair of naked Stevens & Billington TX103 step up transformers. I was thinking of listing it for much more than retail. Guess I'm out of luck.
only an idiot would pay that , even the most in demand product less then 50% . On Audiogon how often would you pay 50% for a used product? Only if in high demand and willing to pay Max .
So the OP is saying we should sell our equipment at 50% off, not charge for PayPal, and offer free shipping. This guy can’t be serious. If he wants to do that, go for it. I’d rather keep something instead of giving it away
Sure, Reno Hi fi in Nevada- great to buy from, pleasant, easy to deal with. Sells Pass brand new at healthy discounts. Several NYC dealers do the same with high end brands. Several in Delaware. A couple in Chicago I've bought Focal and REL from, brand new, authorized dealers. Pretty common, all easy to work with...
Not really, and congrats on an amazing sense of smell too but you're wrong. I used to run a nine store high end audio chain in the northeast for 8 years and know the business well; including margins, demo pricing, B stock deals from the manufacturers etc.
My comments were about sellers asking unreasonable or uninformed prices for their product that a buyer can buy brand new for similar money. Asking ten percent off of list price for a product that anyone can buy brand new for 10-15% off of list makes no sense. Most high end product can be bought at a discount just by asking- not being a "grinder" or being obnoxious. Most dealers will work with a serious buyer and put a deal together. I guess you don't. Thanks for sniffing me out though lol.
Excuse me for saying so OP, but I am in retail and I can smell your type from a mile away. You are the type of difficult customer that no retailer wants, but sells to anyway for a couple of reasons. 1) They're having a bad week and it's a big ticket item, or it's been in the store too long anyway. 2) To shut you up an get rid of you, because there aren't too many like you, just a few percentage wise and you serve a purpose once in a while, however unpleasant. You're the type that wants to get the lowest price, fair or unfair, seller be damned. But of course you always will find a seller. The rest of us see it a little differently.
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