Introspective of this forum: "Does the Audiophile Community Have a Promlem?" I Say yes!!!
This article is so insightful to this forum and the toxicity in the community. (My Opinion)
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?
I know I have contributed to the toxicity here and will try to be a better citizen. Hopefully some will read this and see they are part of the problem (LOL)
Some will not and continue to play their roll as the Toxic Avenger.
There is a particular board on a specific forum that was hidden from the outside world because of how horrible it was. Where personal politics and racism was the norm 24-7 and one member even committed suicide after months of abuse. We watched him fight with other members on a daily basis and get a lot of heat back. He was fine most of the time when dealing with him on a individual basis but then he descended into some really horrible commentaries about race and certain countries and he went down the rabbit hole into some dark places.
Websites like ASR hold zero interest for me because a lot of the users are just there to be “right” and make others feel very small because their views don’t align with certain points of view.
For Marcus Aurelius, becoming powerful was not a measure of success. Neither was defeating invading tribes, or even becoming a philosophical genius.
To him, the criteria for success were simple: displaying good character and doing good works. The fruit of this life, the fruit of the study of philosophy, he said, was just that: “good character and acts for the common good.”
This is a wonderful mantra worth repeating to ourselves always. It’s so easy to get distracted by other things, by other definitions of success. We see other people getting recognition and we want it. We see them making money and suddenly what we have is not enough. We see them getting away with things and think, maybe we should try that too.
Oh, how this leads us astray! Making money, getting recognition, getting away with things? These require things outside your control to go right. And even when they do, they still won’t matter.
What matters, always, is whether we’re cultivating our character. What matters is whether, by our actions, we are part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Are we helping, contributing, being a positive difference maker, even if only in the tiniest way?
Good character and good deeds. Those are up to you, always. And you can do it right, right now. We all can, always.
Just my 2 cents. I don’t have any reason to conflict with anyone here, as I know I don’t have the range of knowledge and experiences that many other members have. I just hope to learn what I can and apply what I can to improve my budding audiophile experiences. I am grateful for help I have received here from other members, and I have been helped. If something is too negative or adversarial, I usually just don’t read it much and go to something more helpful. This interest or passion or whatever we call it is supposed to be fun, and that is what I look for and enjoy. The rest I just let pass by. I hope everyone here is enjoying good health and time with family. Take care friends. 😊
I called cult and dogmatist people who entrench themselves in a process of rejecting unilaterally measuring tools OR subjective experience yes...
Psycho-acoustic teach us that the "timbre" experience cannot be reduced to the spectrum... why?
Because the subjective experience of perceiving the timbre is an irreducible acoustic motivated act of perception UNIQUE in time and place...Reproducing is impossible in the absolute meaning of the word, it is in fact a recreation/translation, being it recording an event or translating it through playback ...Guess why it is so?
Knowledge is not science, and science is not technology... ( knowledge is ALWAYS "personal knowledge" in the precise meaning given by Michael Polanyi)
Then my embeddings controls ARE NOT and could not be science... They are my own knowledge experience, limited and valid for my specific room, specific EARS and specific gear choices...
These embeddings controls linked them in my OWN history...
Anybody could do the same....
You accused me of insulting people because you equated wrongly 3 things, personal knowledge,science, technology, into ONLY one...YOU SIMPLIFY REALITY in a dogmatic binary opposition....Personal knowledge cannot replace science nor technology but the reverse is true also...
Personal knowledge is not science and science is not technology...
I never insulted anyone by stating this simple truth...
Mesuring tools and subjective hearing are not enough by themselves alone they need one another in a PROCESS of encompassing experience, BUT they become dogmas opposed between themselves or they become a "cult" when the the one replaced the other... Only dongmatist do that....
Drink your own vinegar, i will offer my wine...
You reincarnated yourself here many times always comitting the same sins in thinking under new names...Why?
Why not keeping and identity and becoming rational?
Universal Insult coupled with lack of self awareness. Since you need an explanation, a) Calling them cults, b) Many, at least people with objective focus are very aware of psychoacoustics, it is probably even their work you quote, and c) your assumption that your "embedding" is done correctly and d) -- I will let you figure that out on your own.
i see rude, pompous, arrogant, knowitall comments all the time online. not just in hifi forums, everywhere. would imagine that most everyone does. i figured out a long time ago not to pay them any mind. imho, the truth is that some people get off on the idea that they know X better than everyone else. unfortunately for them, it’s all a fantasy - actual experts and others who can speak with real authority on a given subject aren’t usually jerks about it.
as far as the sexist stuff you see from time to time, it's just sad. the most serious record collector i know is a woman and it is an absolute joy to watch the sweaty knowitall middle aged vinyl freaks lose their minds when she pulls out the rare stuff at dj night. talk down to women if you want to, but try not to cry when they embarrass you
but fwiw, i do think it’s worth drawing a distinction between "rude a-hole" and "extremely opinionated old hifi guy." i’ll give you an example as to why -i recently answered a craigslist ad about some rare sansui gear. the guy who listed it called me up 5 minutes after i sent the email and proceeded to talk my ear off about everything hifi for the next hour. in the course of his lecture (that’s what it felt like) he told me exactly why he thinks my present system sucks, how i was misled, why he thinks amp x and loudspeaker y are superior in every way, and blah blah blah. but here’s the thing: i wasn’t offended! i just remember thinking ok, here’s a guy, a stranger, who’s really into this thing, has been for as long as ive been alive, and who’s gone way deeper than i’ve been. along the way he developed some extremely rigid, but extremely well informed opinions. i appreciated that conversation very much. now, if he had talked to me online like he talked to me on the phone, i could have easily misread his passion (totslly palpable and infectious, in the tone of his voice) for an extreme arrogance and ignored him completely. i'm glad i didn't - he was dropping a lot of knowledge on me and it was terrific. i still like my present setup though.
i also think it’s possible that the surplus of extremist-type debates in hifi world could be a sign that more and more people are getting into this thing. if it’s anything like catholicism, it’s always the converts who are craziest 😂, but they’ll mellow out in time
Might also just be the nature of forums and message boards. I've been on ones for all kinds of subjects and people will start arguments about just about anything, some more than others. People can say a lot of things anonymously that they wouldn't say in person.
It is nice to see folks crying uncle. It's also nice to read your thoughtful reflections. For me, I have decided its much easier to be nice than mean. I retired and decided I was not going to be around negative people. Then I read social media, ghosting, cancelling, harassing. Thank you. Let's move forward. I have learned a lot here. And I am enjoying the music.
This writer calls himself "aging", but he must not be that old because, while the Web didn't exist in 1987, when that Stereo Review blind amp test came out showing inexpensive amps couldn't be picked from expensive amps, you'd have thought the world had been set on fire. The magazines' Letters to the Editor and BBS were howling.
This isn't something new, and it certainly isn't about audio. You should have seen the golf forums back in the 90's arguing about swing methodology and equipment. Back then I competed in long drive a few times with a competition best of 372 yards with carries up to 330, and I was repeatedly told by people on forums, who I could outdrive with a 3-iron, that my thoughts on swing methodology were all wrong. You've just got to have the attitude of, "Yeah, OK, whatever."
This is just simple psychology. It's always been going on and it always will because people are people. And many people are irrational, unintelligent or have psychological axes to grind. Either you accept it, or you let it control you, because while it's something that might possibly be suppressed and censored, it's not something you can change. And none of these subjects are that important.
I enjoy the rants and baiting. It's like watching a soap opera with a stereo equipment theme. The snarkier the better!
I certainly hope nobody is actually getting upset by this. "Riled up" is fine, though. If you want to see an active toxic forum, you should go to one that discusses which city has the best pizza (New Haven, Connecticut, of course).
Current system: Harbeth P3esr speakers, REL T/5 sub, Odyssey electronics, Technics SL1200 GR with Hana SL cartridge. Decent copper wires. In my room, listening at my preferred volume levels, it's the best system I have ever heard!
If the intent here is to raise awareness in people who behave badly well, good luck with that--i've already seen in this thread that some of the worst offenders have no clue that this thread might just apply to them. It would seem that arrogance is blind and perhaps these offenders really don't see themselves in that light--which means the problem will remain.
To a certain extent this, and other forums, represent the sentiment of the country/world and times--there's enough diversity here that you get all types. In the six years i've been a member i've definitely seen the tone change for the worse but not extremely so--it's usually just a few prolific people--and sometimes, if you wade through the condescension, they actually have something to offer. I'm kind of in agreement with those who think the problem is not really that serious. I still enjoy reading the weekly summary and i know whose opinions i will value and those i will ignore--and it's not always the arrogant ones i ignore--as with any forum there's the good, the bad & the ugly so i don't take it that seriously.
Merry Christmas/(or if applicable Happy Hanukkah ) to all and Happy New Year
@kahlenz, the fierce debate is not over which city has the best pizza. Even New Yorkers and Chicagoans, if they're being honest, agree it's New Haven. The debate is about which ("apizza") place makes the best pie.
For the record, I've had most of them and they're ALL amazing. Sally's, Pepe's, Modern, and so on. Heck, I even like Ernie's. Then we get to West Haven, North Haven (which has had some stellar places in the past), and beyond.... Now I'm hungry!
No, NO BODY committed anything because of what anybody said. Next it’s gonna be someone else’s fault for everything! Any one that takes their own life it’s their own choice. Plain and simple.. Pretty serious choice too. You only get to make it once. It’s always heartbreaking to lose someone, but sometimes it’s inevitable too.
@larsmanJust being a homer as I do not eat pizza at all anymore. Liked it all when I was younger. I do not eat bread, chips, fried foods or processed crap. Max of 2 gs of sugar a day from protein bars after a skate or run.
You all can enjoy your clogged arteries and type 2 diabetes.
BTW we do have thin crust in Chicago, Barnaby's in Arlington Heights and Schaumberg are awesome as was Giovanni's in Des Plains.
Duking it out over whether Pepe's is better than Sally's is like arguing over whether speaker cables should be the same length – it depends on where you are.
@jerryg123, Porsche is quite capable of making some serious mistakes. Just ask any 996 owner who has had a motor blow up after the intermediate shaft bearing went south.
As for what people think they hear? Balderdash would be the polite word. IMHO you need to get yourself a heavier suit of armour. Humans are adversarial. It is built into us and it will remain with us.
I tried to never forget the simple words that my father said to me. "Consider the source." It isn't to be taken in a negative as is often implied, but rather to think about what has been said, by who, and why. It helps me almost daily.
@jerryg123, Do you think you are Tazio Nuvolari? If your Alpha is running today it won't be tomorrow. You buy Italian cars if you want to look at them. You buy German cars if you want to drive them. Besides every serious 2 wheel person I know pedals and they all want a 911. They have no idea who Tazio Nuvolari was. Tazio won the greatest Grand Prix race of all time, the 1935 German Grand Prix in an old underpowered Alpha FROM BEHIND! Mussolini elbowed Hitler about it for years. Sterling Moss was the greatest driver to never win a world title. Tazio is probably the greatest driver of all time that nobody knows about. He was only 5'3" tall and could barely see over the dash.
@mijostynLOL I have Italian (Aprilia) and German motorcycles. Also just picked up a Triumph Speed Triple but we all know that is truly a Japanese bike.
@tomic601, they did in the 997. Great car. I have a Speed Yellow one with the cup aerokit. Wendelin Wiedeking was in pure cost cutting mode in the late 80's because Porsche was in financial trouble. He put the fried egg headlights of the Boxter on the 911 which all of us HATED. The 996 was also slab sided. It did not have the lovely figure a 911 is supposed to have. 996's however are cheap and they still drive well. The Turbo is a real value and has a dynamite motor in it. Porsche realized it's error and with the 997 back came the round headlights and the figure. It has the best steering of any 911 ever, still way better than the soleless electro-mechanical one is now. It is getting better but it is not quite there yet. Currently Mclaren has the best steering.
@jerryg123, That is a riot. My second motorcycle was a Speed Triple and back then it was still made in England. Great bike. I also owned two BMW's and a Ducati 999s which was my favorite. I get the itch once in a while and I may get a Triumph Bonneville. I am inseam challenged and at my age I want to be able to put my feet on the ground. All of my two wheeling now is done with pedals.
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