DAC’s

$7k is a fair chunk of change.

I cannot hear much of a difference between the iPad coming out of an apple dongle and the same iPad feeding Spotify into an RME DAC… so I would be more tempted to shift the 5-6k extra into something else where it might be more noticeable.

Maybe your equipment and ears are better, but unless there are some features with that DAC then personally I would require some careful listening to sway me towards it.

The DAC is one of the critical components of your system. I read some reviews on the Meitner MA3 DAC. Seems very respectable for the money… as in the sound quality sounds worth the money.

To be getting the most out of your DAC you need to have or plan on owning a comparable streamer, preamp, amp and speakers. It would be helpful to know your other components and venue. The best, and easiest place to put these is under your userID. Then you do not need to keep reproducing them. Photos… even if in disarray and under construction is really helpful. You can see mine.

Anyway the Stereophile review poses no red flags, but also not overwhelming praise. I really appreciate them mentioning Grant Green’s Idle Moments album. I am listening to it now… the high resolution one is absolutely wonderful.

shttr,

The deal of a lifetime only comes along once a week.

The Holo May DAC is cheaper and considered better.

The DAC is what makes the streamer sound good.

 

@shtr74sims 
I am with @ghdprentice on this one. The MA3 is decent enough but still requires you to source an external device to run ROON core. Which is another whole bag of tricks you need to put together in order to take full advantage of MA3.

Before you finalize your DAC purchase, narrow down your options for streamer or server. These two components must take full advantage of tech on board (USB or SPDIF connectivity) and superiority of Internal clocks in either DAC or Streamer.

And lastly, based on the quality of your streamer/server; network optimization would be the next step to fully realize the potential of digital streaming.

“The Holo May DAC is cheaper and considered better.”

”In sum-- a shocker-- the NOS R2R DAC is sounding more and more like... an excellent NOS R2R DAC. The KTE May is a bit warmer and more spacious all around. In contrast, immediately apparent upon switching is the slightly more lit up sound of the MA3.

 

It presents to my ear as more detailed and thus less ’homogeneous’ with instrumental sections/groups and the textures their instruments produce. Specifically, there seems to be more overall instrumental texture on offer and instruments in groups seem a bit more discernible as individual players with their own air and space around them.

The MA3 also seems somewhat pacier and more micro-dynamic. It’s quite the foot tapper! Even to Bach. There seems to be more contrast between instantly softer and louder/start and stop. The MA3 is on a hair trigger with this stuff. I think some youtube reviewer calls that ’alert’ sounding.

While, as i say, the MA3 seems to separate instrumentalists on the stage a bit more and gives them their own air, the Holo seems to paint more abstractly with a bit broader brush, The MA3 also seems to have a bit more ’scale’ for me i.e. the proceedings seems slightly grander in terms of the size of the players and stage. MA3 bass seems a bit more defined and possibly a bit deeper (though my system sure wont plumb any depths).

It also does a nice thing I don’t think I’ve heard my prior DACs do to this degree (mostly NOS R2R to be fair) which is pressurization-- like the sense that the bow is digging into the strings and there’s pressure/corporeality/weight (it was striking with a great violin recording like the complete Schubert Sonatas played by Naaman Sluchin and Piet Kuijikenor) and with strings en masse like in ’Simon Rattle conducts Haydn’, on which album the lower strings -- cellos/basses-- seem with the MA3 to be moving more air than with the Holo while seeming a bit less plump and one notey as well. In other words,with the MA3, it hits you a bit more that there’s a big lot of people out there (albeit individuals) bowing away furiously.

You get this sense of weight/pressure- of air moving- with the MA3 on lots of recordings though- not just with strings.”

 

 

 

I have a 280D $3000.00 and a 680D $10,000.00 and you sure as heck can hear the difference. 
 

Buy what your ears tell you. 

@shtr74sims I recently had a conversation with someone on the MA3. The DAC is actually not bad, but the built in streamer is not great. I came across that that when I had tested it both with an external streamer and the built in one, but the person I spoke with was only using the built in one and dismissed it as if the DAC was not very good. So if you do get the unit, you may benefit from using an external streamer/server solution regardless.

I own the MA3 and am very happy with it.   I replaced a just slightly cheaper (MSRP wise) Mojo Audio R2R NOS DAC that I also really liked.   I think the MA3 offers many of the same sound qualities as my Mojo did, and just takes a few of them further allowing me to hear more yet into my favorite recordings. 

If you throw in it unfolds MQA, has an integrated Roon capable streamer, Meitner's digital volume control, and is made and serviced in North America, I personally think it is (relatively speaking in hi-end terms :)) good value at the used/street prices it goes for.

I do agree that I think it sounds slightly better with a decent quality external streamer.   I'm using a Bricasti M5 with AES and I prefer it slightly to its integrated streamer.  If I didn't already have the M5, I don't think I would rush out to buy it.

I think this review https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/meitner-audio-ma3-integrated-da-converter-review-r1086/ is a pretty good representation of the MA3 based on my experience with it.

Of course, YMMV...

Get the best Lumin DAC / Streamer that you can.  i had the D-2, U1 mini, A1 and X1.  You kill two birds with one stone nd great sound and ease of Ap use.  you can find them used.  You might be able to find an X-1 on the used market for $7800 to $8400 and that is the flagship.  

T+A DAC 200 for less money ?

I like the Wyred4sound 10th anniversary DAC very analog sounding and three dimensional wide sound stage, not cheap 4500 US.

I detect a sense of exhaustion from the OP.  This is supposed to be fun.

My 2 cents is keep the DAC and streamer separate.  The DAC is the larger determinant of the sound, but the streamer can make or break the experience.

A great sounding streamer that has a poor software controlling package, or that doesn’t connect well, can make you frustrated and miserable.  Keeping DAC and streamer separate allows you to change one or the other independently.  There are already a couple of comments in this thread that the streamer end of the Meitner may be subpar.  That would scare me off.

  I think that in general DACs get better as you go up the financial ladder but the rest of the system matters as well.  Have you been able to demo anything in your own system

There are big differences Between DACs, I used to use a dac hooked up to my iPhone to listen when on a plane for work.

‘For me, the dac has to be FPGA based, network and i2s capable, mqa and dsd capable or I won’t even look at it. These are more expensive but worth the expense.

The MA3 is a streamer/DAC but the streamer section is not as good as the DAC, and if it necessitates the use of Roon to stream then as others point out you will need a Roon Core to feed it. As well, Roon software has a great UI, but is not the best sonically.

The Lumin T3 is a streamer/DAC with its own propreitary software so it’s truly a one box and done source, plus it has very good build quality and manufacturer support. Sonically it is resolving and dynamic, but loses out just a bit on soundstage and tonal/textural accuracy compared to the Holo or Denafrips you mentioned - but then again you are saving minimum $2K on a streamer transport.

If you value soundstage and tonal/textural accuracy as must-have primary strengths then really stretch the budget and get either the Holo Audio May "KTE" or the Denafrips Terminator Plus 12th Anniversary AND MAKE SURE YOUR STREAMER TRANSPORT IS HIGH QUALITY (ignore the naysayers, EVERYTHING in a digital source chain counts).

Suggestions for a streamer transport are a Lumin U2 or an Auralic Aires G1.1 - or go all out and get an Aurender N200, the very best streamer transport under 5K IMO.

@kairosman Thank you, your response is one of the best ones I have received so far. I have gone back and forth if I am being honest on what to get. This is my first dac and the lumin t3 is prob the easiest to get into to start. I have pass labs gear and I just didn’t wanna feel like I would want more down the road… 

@dlcockrum

Thanks for sharing your detailed listening impressions of highly regarded DACs. Based upon your description and distinctions between them I’d favor the MA-3. It’s clear to me that you could not go wrong with either. It seems that the MA-3 digs deeper and is the more expressive and resolved (As well as better micro dynamics and musical pace) nice!

Charles

@shtr74sims 

 

The MA3 is a terrific dac, but there are alot of terrific dacs out there today. The streamer in the MA3 is alot better than many would have you believe but like everything else in audio, it can be bettered. It is a nice feature to have while you are building your system and depending on the rest of your gear you buy, you will have opportunities to enhance your system once you have decided next steps.

 

What do you believe the rest of your system will eventually be, what is your overall budget and what are your musical/tonal preferences?

I am in the camp of seperate streamer and DAC.

With AES connection between dac and streamer.

In that price range check out entry level units from

TotalDAC from France for the DAC and for the streamer check out Baetis from Canada.

I have this and am quite happy 

Cheers

@shtr74sims I run a Bricasti M3 with integrated network player and I find it excellent. Strong performance from the built in network player (beat out Lumin U1 Mini) and very good synergy with my Pass pre and amp. You will need either the M-Connect or Roon with it (I use Roon).
Never heard the Meitner dac. But highly recommend you audition Bricasti.

@holmz 

 

good advice ...

The DAC is the heard of a digital system.  I say it should be your most expensive piece of equipment in most systems.  I haven't heard the DAC you reference so I can't comment.  You'll get a lot of comments from guys that read a lot of reviews, thus items on stereophile's recommended list are presented like expert advice.

I am a big fan of Chord Dave (for reference).

I also like to separate streamer and DAC but I am a much bigger fan of a DAC with an onboard streamer than a streamer with an onboard DAC.  Sounds like this piece of equipment is built around a great DAC.  

Jerry

Best if you listen with a MA3 in your system, either borrowed or purchased.  At the price offered you could sell it with little to no loss if needed.  I find special network gear upstream from the MA3 is not needed.  I think for better sound than an MA3 can deliver a DAC needs a ceramic analog board and will have a high price as a result.

Do an in home demo and let your ears tell you what to do.

One mans garbage is another mans gold. 

 

You might consider getting a streamer that is separate from the DAC.  

Totally agree with @12many I have 2 DAC's with streaming capability but prefer a separate streamer/server. Using the Innuos Zenith in one system and the Statement in another (separate networks).

 

 

i have had no experience with emm or meitner dacs but of course they have a strong reputation

if someone had a very nice system and asked me what dac/streamer they should get for $6-7 grand i would recommend any of the following 4, based on my personal experience, and their usage criteria and sonic bent

1) chord m scaler and hugo tt2 -- will need streamer to supply usb output, so might exceed $7 grand a bit, but the sound is simply top notch

2) bricasti m1 se with network card -- superb integrated streamer and dac

3) weiss 501/502 - loaded with useful features to a level not matched by the previous two, wonderful crystal clear sound

4) msb analog dac with power base - older dac, but r2r unit with that special very analog (the unit is very aptly named imo) presentation, a touch less razor sharp a touch less uber-focused sound, but oh so natural sounding

all 4 have the ability to control analog output volume, which i value greatly, the msb even has an analog input, so it is 2 input linestage in addition

i have not tried the holo may many like it, i did try the denafrips terminator i did not feel it is at the same level as the other 4 i mentioned

my 2 cents, hope it is helpful

$10,000 for a DAC? Someone's priorities, i.e., the important ones, the social ones, are out of whack. Never mind that the claim that there is a audible difference of $9700. Or is the $3000 device a piece of crap? Or or we just saying, "I've got money to blow?" And little common sense?

Even as practical advice, this is worthless to anyone who lives in a world of budgets.

 

@richardmathes Sorry I've wasted money on my stereo equipment that you could have used for social governance.  good luck with you superior common sense.

Green with envy @richardmathes go toss a can of soup on a painting and glue yourself to a wall.

You know nothing about me or the money I contribute to social issues. And yes I can hear the difference.

I have worked very hard my entire life and paid for 4 kids to go to college and they are productive members of our society,  I am  charitable and paid my taxes. I will spend my money as I see fit.

So what are you pissed because the courts are holding up your Student Loan Debt Relief? That Art History degree not paying the bills? 

I have zero debit how about you?

Jackwagon!

$10,000 for a DAC? Someone’s priorities, i.e., the important ones, the social ones, are out of whack. Never mind that the claim that there is a audible difference of $9700. Or is the $3000 device a piece of crap? Or or we just saying, "I’ve got money to blow?" And little common sense?

Even as practical advice, this is worthless to anyone who lives in a world of budgets.

Zero debts and I have $10K for a DAC.

I can't think of a single reason to deploy it.

The OP is free to do whatever he likes. I have no opinion.

 

@richardmathes it was a genuine question. That is part of what this site is for, is it not ? It’s like minded people who are into the same hobby. I bet you are the kind of guy who has an $800 a month truck payment and is always complaining he doesn’t have any money. 

@fuzztone ​​​​@shtr74sims ++10 

don't play into the chain-jerk fellas... back on topic...👌🙏

OP, for that price, if true audio quality is the focus, you should find a way to do a blind test.  You might not be able to tell the difference between a 2K DAC and a 7K DAC.  At these upper price ranges they are all good.  At these prices, perhaps we should not think about one device necessarily being better than another, but instead which device you find more pleasing or which suits your personal preferences and the rest of your gear.    

@jjss49 has a lot of wisdom in both posts….. no need to respond to a troll. I found the MSB analog w power base the near equal of my Aesthetix Pandora ….. Nits at this musical level….

Best to all in music

Also a big fan of the best Lampizator you can get in combination w a streamer… just my $.02

That is a good price for a Meitner. If it were me, I would go for it.

You can easily sell it for that price, if you don't like it. Actually, you could sell it for more.

FWIW, I use Roon with a Brinkmann Nyquist. I don't need a Roon Core. Only a subscription to Roon and the Brinkmann does the rest.

Probably best to make sure with Meitner if that is so with their unit.

I can understand your trepidation. But, I had quite a learning curve when I moved to digital. I have owned many DAC's, from Schiit to Ayre. Moving to the Brinkmann pretty much ended my search. Though I haven't listened to the Meitner, I have heard good things about it, and I don't think you will be disappointed. Is there a possibility of you auditioning it against other brands at your dealer?

 

Bob

richardmathes it was a genuine question. That is part of what this site is for, is it not ? It’s like minded people who are into the same hobby. I bet you are the kind of guy who has an $800 a month truck payment and is always complaining he doesn’t have any money

Yeah - I am not much of streaming guy, but I think that It is good to get some listening in on whichever of the units you are considering.

While an in home demo is good, just finding where to do hear some of the units can often be a challenge at this level.

 

Hello, curious on everyone’s thoughts. I’m still building my system. I came across a really good deal on a Meitner MA3 dac. It’s from an authorized dealer and they offered to sell me one NIB for 7k

If they know you are interested, then can you try and convince them to let you do a demo?
(Even better if you had some other DAC to compare it to available.)

Even if that costed you some forfeitable fee, it could be worthwhile to know for sure before jumping in head first.

Have a LessLoss Echo's End R2R with 640X and the LessLoss footers for a demo in my system.

If it works out I will the replace my 280D and gift that to my daughter for her new condo. 

Those who say DACs don’t matter, zeroes and ones, I want to smoke what you are smoking. Or have tin ears. Or never listened to music. I would have saved myself a lot of money.

 

It’s like those guys with a Chromecast Audio as a “DAC” who bitch about Analog sounding so much better than their Digital. Well… no shit.

@12many 

Mr. Obvious. Very nice.

Precisely the only way to determine value. Head to head.

The value that others perceive has little or no bearing since they hear and spend differently.

 

richardmathes 8 posts 10-27-2022 at 04:14pm  $10,000 for a DAC? Someone's priorities, i.e., the important ones, the social ones, are out of whack. Never mind that the claim that there is a audible difference of $9700. Or is the $3000 device a piece of crap? Or or we just saying, "I've got money to blow?" And little common sense? Even as practical advice, this is worthless to anyone who lives in a world of budgets.

The MSRP of my DAC is $20,000. Esoteric N-01XD. Or it was when I bought it a couple of years ago.

 

Is this too bad? Can I be “saved”? 

 

@jerryg123 :

…..paid my taxes. I will spend my money as I see fit.

Yup! That’s sums it all up. You owe nothing to anyone 

 

Social priorities.

I had pulled up to a huge intersection with red light (six lanes plus turning lanes - so 10 across) on my bicycle in the left turn lane (as appropriate). No other car anywhere in site except one that pulled up two lanes to my right. This guy starts yelling “get off my f**king road, I pay taxes… you pr**k… etc. you looser.

I had paid over $140,000 in just federal taxes that year. Without question many times what he could possibly paid. The most clueless, tend to attack others.

My 2 cents. I recently bought,  at a great deal, the Meitner MA-1 DAC. Love it!!! It is just a DAC. Sounds GREAT.  I do not use a streamer. I have a Windows 10 based computer attached directly to the DAC, also connected via an Ethernet cable.  I currently stream Qobuz and also use  a Rs2T Project transport, with a LTA  Linear power supply, which also runs through the Meitner DAC, Incredible, ask Charles one Dad who has commented earlier.  I can't speak for the newest MA-3, but,, I'm sure it's top shelf. Meitner and EMM labs are at the top. If you can find an MA-1, Great. Then decide what streamer, if necessary you may prefer. Just my 2 cents. Robert TN

@thyname you are beyond redemption my friend.🤭

Those who say DACs don’t matter, zeroes and ones, I want to smoke what you are smoking. Or have tin ears. Or never listened to music. I would have saved myself a lot of money.

I do admit to liking vinyl, and with digital needing all the cords, power conditioners, etc. which the “everything makes a difference” crowd spruiks… that is one reason I prefer vinyl. It is a TT, Cart, phono stage and preamp.

I do not generally find streaming more than just easy listening.

 

It’s like those guys with a Chromecast Audio as a “DAC” who bitch about Analog sounding so much better than their Digital. Well… no shit.

OK…
We have suggestions of:

• $100 dongle 
• $1-2k DAC
• $7k DAC
• $20k + DACS

I do not think it is dishonourable for the OP to try and listen to that DAC before jumping in.

 

The MSRP of my DAC is $20,000. Esoteric N-01XD. Or it was when I bought it a couple of years ago.

 

Is this too bad? Can I be “saved”? 

You probably cannot be saved, but let’s assume that the OP got to listen to the DAC they are considering, and also your $20K one.

If there was a difference, then the $7k would also probably not be a good deal, if it is a temporary thing, and they could be better off just getting the $20k DAC.

I doubt that whatever amount it is, then one can argue that they should have spent more or less.. and especially so if they cannot hear a difference.

 

@richardmathes 

While I find it hard to judge much of a difference between a $10k DAC, $2k DAC or a $100 dongle… I am not sure I am going to be any better at judging people’s motivations and what they should be optimally doing with their money.

 

$10,000 for a DAC? Someone's priorities, i.e., the important ones, the social ones, are out of whack.

i suppose ”good for you to point out that there are options,” but:

• Which social issues in particular?
• And can $10k solve these social issues?
• And is it the OP’s responsibility to solve them?

 

 

“I use Roon with a Brinkmann Nyquist. I don't need a Roon Core. Only a subscription to Roon and the Brinkmann does the rest.”
@gdnrbob 

I am curious to know, how are you using ROON app without Core. The manufacturer description says Nyquist is Roon Ready or Tested. My understanding of ROON is you must have Core running on a server for ROON app to work properly. BTW, Nyquist DAC remains high on my wish list to audition someday. 

A Nyquist is a formidable DAC and the MK2 is really special but I don’t think it runs ROON core… 

You probably cannot be saved,

Oh Sherlock… Obviously 🙄 

OK…
We have suggestions of:

• $100 dongle 
• $1-2k DAC
• $7k DAC
• $20k + DACS

I do not think it is dishonourable for the OP to try and listen to that DAC before jumping in.

You forgot the most important part: one should only buy what he / she can afford.