There us a Worldwide Panic on Availability of Vacuum Tubes


“THERE IS A WORLDWIDE PANIC ON AVAILABILITY OF VACUUM TUBES”: EHX’S MIKE MATTHEWS ON THE MURKY FUTURE OF VALVE AMPS

The EHX founder and vacuum tube producer sounds a dire warning over the “digital IC crisis” and the future of valves following a spate of plant closures.

Last week, Electro-Harmonix founder Mike Matthews surprised the world with the company’s plans to harvest energy from the Earth’s magnetosphere. But in the course of explaining his plans to Guitar.com, the pedal pioneer has also sounded an ominous warning about the present and future of amp valve production.

Speaking about what he described as the “digital IC crisis”, Matthews cited the closure of a factory in China putting huge pressure on the New Sensor facility in Russia, which was founded and is owned by Matthews, to supply the global demand for amp valves.

“Currently, there is a worldwide panic on the availability of vacuum tubes,” Matthews wrote. “The big Shuguang factory in China was forced to move… and the Jamona (JJ Electronic) factory in Slovakia that used to have lead times of one month, now has lead times of six months.

“We’re getting bombarded with orders from desperate customers from all over the world. Our tube factory is operating now at 100 percent of capacity, so we cannot produce all the quantities that are demanded. However, we are allocating quantities to many customers so that they can continue to survive.”

Since the development of semiconductor devices in the 1940s and 50s, and their evolution into the transistors and integrated circuit (IC) chips that form the bedrock of almost every electronic device we use today, valves have gradually become a specialist, niche product.

While the vacuum tube was once the beating heart of consumer electronics – from radios and TVs to computers and telephones – the technology was rendered archaic half a century ago. Transistors are more reliable, affordable, compact and energy-efficient.

As a result, the guitar amplifier industry is one of the few that still requires vacuum tubes – so it’s perhaps no wonder that the number of factories actually producing them has been reduced greatly over the last few decades.

The situation is complicated by the fact that many vacuum tube brands are not vacuum tube manufacturers. They source their tubes from a handful of factories from around the world that Matthews referenced above.

For example, Groove Tubes, which you’ll find in Fender amplifiers, sources its tubes from a number of other companies, including Matthews’ New Sensor.

But if the valve has been on the wind-down for over 60 years, why the sudden concern for the availability of tubes going forward?

As Matthews alludes, the big concern is the closure of a major valve-producing factory in Shuguang, China. Matthews claims the factory has been repurposed for more modern technologies and as such, they have had to move.

This is hard to fully verify, but it does seem to have scaled back production enough to spark online rumours about its factory being closed. It would also be no surprise if – with the Shuguang factory seemingly out of the picture – New Sensor and JJ Electronic were struggling to meet demand, especially given the boom in guitar gear sales over the pandemic.

So what does this mean for the future of valve amps? Well, supply and demand means that as long as guitar players want them, someone will keep making them. But like the vinyl revival leaving manufacturers struggling to fulfil demand with so few factories still producing records in a once-thought obsolete format, the industry’s reliance on a few makers to supply everyone with valves is fraught with this sort of danger.

Ultimately, this is likely a perfect storm of increased demand met with a sudden shortage, meaning that while current shortages are problematic for manufacturers, it’s unlikely to impact us long term.

However, it does reflect the precarious position that the guitar industry is in: relying on a few factories to prop up a multi-billion-dollar global industry is less than ideal, and a long-term shortage of tubes could cause prices to rise dramatically, maybe making some makers turn away from valves altogether.

But for the short term, there’s no need to panic. After all, Matthews might be sounding the alarm about the scarcity of valve tubes, but his company has recently brought out the revived Sovtek MIG-50 50-watt all-tube head for less than $700. Valve amps are not going anywhere just yet.

https://guitar.com/news/gear-news/panic-on-availability-of-vacuum-tubes-mike-matthews-future-valve-a... 
128x128vinyl_rules
Mark Twain had something similar to say about this! Wish I could remember the quote!
"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated" - sent by cable from London by Mark Twain after some newspapers reported his demise!
The guy might be sounding an alarm, just to test the waters about gouging the heck out of everybody and wondering if his company can get away with it..

Don’t worry he can..

BUT thank God it’s not rocket science to make a vacuum tube. They act like it’s complicated. Couple of small startups could fill the Americas needs no problem.. Where is there a lot of sand and gas to fire a furnace and sand to make glass.. Gulf sound good or just about the whole west coast. From tip of Alaska to the bottom of Brazil.

Heck I don’t care if they melt the glass with a nuclear plant.. Might even add a whole new sound to the mix..
Tubes that glow in the dark without being turned on. :-)

Regards
Interesting. The closing of the Shuguang factory isn't really news nowadays, but it definitely must have an impact on the global supply chain. And some of the tubes previously produced in the Shuguang factory are looked back on very fondly. For instance, that so-called WE 6SN7-plus, the one with the orange metal base and extra tall bottle.

I think when things become scarce there is a corresponding reconsideration of their virtues and attributes. When things which were common become hard to find, they sometimes very sought after.

Ok. Sorry to take this thread somewhat off track... 
Oldheavy beat me to it.

Sounds exactly like an upcoming price gouge, but it also sounds like an opportunity to get valve mfg. right back here in the good ole USA.

Premium tubes with high quality control, at a premium.

I mean, we're willing to pay a premium for NOS for tubes, why not?
gofundme awaits all the glass melters…

i just work ( occasionally ) at a software startup…. raising capital is hard…
 
There is a panic in everything. For one very simple reason: a frightened population is easier to control. Think about it.
I say two fingers to the whole LOT, and a middle one from the good old USA.

We actually have an old glass production plant that closed down 15-18 years ago. Only because the canneries shut down 30 years ago.

They never tore the place down. Still in pretty good shape actually.

Hmmmmm!!!!????

Regards
A full-scale production tube plant is expensive to set up! And training workers takes time! It is a lot more involved than oldhvymec thinks!
The article contains news about the tube/valve industry, and that's interesting. But the click-bait scare tactic has made me trust the source less.

Supply and demand should help, but it's not like baking muffins. Something to watch.  As is this item about coffee.
oldhvymec worked at "the glass containers" for 9 months while going through Chrysler training. 10% of the town use to work for them too.
I worked off and on in the plant for 20 years on a lot of their Cat and GradeAll Equipment.

As for setting up a business, what would I know.. Why do you think I was in the plants.. I had a contract to fix some of the equipment.

I got a real good idea what it takes to make "Glass Containers"

The money, the US is full of suckers (OPS) business partners willing to invest OTHER peoples money.. Print that $hit I’ll take a couple semi trailers full, FREE please, I sure don’t want to pay it back... It’s in our National Interest that I do it.. :-) LOL, Slapping my knees...

The internal elements of a Power Valves are hand made, then stuffed into the glass, then sealed. A bake-o-lite/now silicone or metal band added. The Russians, Chinese, Italians, and just about anyone else manage to do it.

The little valves, that could be trickier, I haven’t really thought about them..

I’m sure even us Lazy Americans can manage though.:-) We’ll hire the wave of fresh workers lined up at the border. They’ll do it.. The quality might suffer a bit, but who do you think is making VALVES in China or Russia or Italy. Could you stand the heat? That’s right the ones that drop there are 50 standing in line to replace them.

The HOT but only slightly talented skill sets needed to do the work, I could even manage. Eat celery, I did.. EVERYBODY ate celery.. the 3 Steel Mills too. HOT work, eat celery and drink celery/carrot juice. I still do.. 8 fingers 2 thumbs and all my toes.. I got them all. Neighbor across the street is a high rise window glazer. LOL It’s glass right..

Hire a local retired dope cooker (that’s out of jail) as a chemist, plenty of them around.. We have the talent..:-)
Glass, Dope, there any difference? Just keep the chemist focused on GLASS..

I’m pretty sure the old "Glass Container" in Antioch CA would be a good start. "Google Earth" the thing, look for yourself.. It has set vacant, 15-18 years. 4 blocks from a home I own. Scale it back to 1/10 the size it would still produce a slough of product.. This was a WWII glass production plant up until the early 2000s

Besides it would up the value of the little house I paid 39k for 27-30 years ago, to 425K from the 350k I was just offered..

There are a lot of old Glass Container employees still around.
Yup Yup..
The technology to build high quality and reliable tubes requires high purity metallurgy and chemicals. Add in the apparatus for super high vacuum pumping and it is not a simple and easy endeavor! 
The glass envelope for tubes is not ordinary bottle glass! It requires calcium carbonate added to the melt.
The purity of the chemicals to coat cathodes may not be easily achieved today! In fact cathode coatings in the old days was often proprietary for each company and considered well-kept knowledge!
Case study, Western Electric Rossville Works.  This took over 3 years to finally get to the point of making working products that met the original Western Electric standards.

And this is only 1 tube type, 300B.

It's certainly not just blowing glass bottles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA8G5zRjriI
I never even consider buying EH tubes to put in any of my 3 integrated amps , my tube preamp, or the tube DAC in my 2nd system so his customers need not worry lol
When tensions were higher with Russia, this was more of an issue.  Things have settled a bit.  I am sure that interview was conducted weeks ago.  Supply is tight, but it is not even to a point where prices are rising yet.  It would not shock me if prices rise though as some products have been out-of-stock.  

It would be nice to see a plant open somewhere in west but would people be willing to pay 2x to 3x what they are paying From Russia and China?  Tough to see that hapening.  
the old production equipment and recent experience is somewhere,

If there's profit to be made from vacuum tubes, China will jump back in, they can do what they want, with state sponsorship overnight. 

 
The guy might be sounding an alarm, just to test the waters about gouging the heck out of everybody and wondering if his company can get away with it..
Don’t worry he can..

There is a panic in everything. For one very simple reason: a frightened population is easier to control. Think about it.

Of course there will be a price increase. He owns New Sensor.  Part of the Oligarchy which is now responsible for the worldwide panic. Don't worry about the tubes. Hyperinflation will make tube prices the least of your problems
Some NOS tubes are hard to find. Eg.:Mullard 12AT7.
And NOS WE 300B prices have become outrageous.
I think people are hoarding them as precious commodities.
I luckily scored 12 AT7s from a collector. The improvement over my Chinese was huge and worth a high price.
YUP! I agree. Pure Hooey. When the going gets tough the tough get going..

Pretty simple.. Time to make money or what?

jasonburne52 you’re a party pooper.. I’m not trying to put someone on the moon. Just make a silly vacuum tube..

The purity of glass bla bla bla.. A whole town of people that worked in glass for 75 years.. I don’t think ONE had a HS education.

And a 300b wasn’t even developed for music, it was for telephone lines If I remember. 100,000 hour valve.. We don’t need anything even close to that valve life.. Or that valve for that matter. I was impressed with a few 300b set up. "BUT the best" far from it, to my old fashion ears. Kt66, 77, 88, 6550, EL34, 6L6.

Again it’s not even wheel chair science.

Regards
My good buddies in Germany (mechanics) use to say that. I don't think they were kidding though.. They worked in Russia quite a bit actually.
Told me Moscow was more expensive than Aspin CO to get a sandwich and a Beer. 45-50.00 usd.. That's saying something..
Was talking to my dad this past weekend. He's 97. He used to repair radios and tvs as a hobby. Worked for NASA as an engineer for guidance systems. He gave me some interesting info and history. I have his tube tester and his whole library of vacuum tube books, cross references, notebooks. I have several boxes of 100's of tubes, all kinds. He told me to look in his notebook on how to use many of the "unloved" tube types for use in audio circuits. Looking at his notes, there are many test gear tubes that are far better for preamp stages than what are commonly used today. Quieter, faster, more linear, etc.  Really nice gain properties.

And, he said there is more to making "GOOD, really good" vacuum tubes than shaping wire and mounting in a glass envelope. He said there were extremely good tubes made in USA in the 1940s and 1950s that the Russians didn't know how to make. They were made in advance of being able to make germanium or silicon transistors to do the job. G-forces were the problem, not quality or even efficiency. 

Goodness.......He has a list of 67 tubes very useable for audio circuits, and at least 38 tubes that can be paralleled for quiet amp stages.

I wonder how many great tube engineers never wrote down their knowledge?
Run For Your Lives! The Russians Are Coming! The Russians Are Coming!

I'm glad those in our cybersecurity community are (now) taking it more seriously than you are.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/06/technology/rnc-hacked-cyberattack-russia.html


@wolfie62 thank God you still have Dad. What a gem. You and he might get a kick out of Burning Amp video on utube of Roger Modjeski ( rip ) a true tube genius. He and Nelson pass out on burning amp. Some of the genius is written down…
I don’t think there was ever a question whether a better, quieter, or one with greater longevity couldn’t be made. The question was, did there need to be?

The industry settled on the small 12A( )7 valve and it was the Western European and The Americas standard. Guys like Had used 6SN7 valves with great success, BUT it sure wasn’t the standard..

I still don’t like that valve. The 12BH7 and 6922 both are good valves, but WHY? 12AT, U, X, Z or go BIG valve like STL and use KT66,77,88,90, 6550, EL34, or 6L6.

I’m no designer, BUT I agree with STL, FET, big valve tech, point to point, copper (non magnetic) resistors. There wasn’t anything close to the quality components we have now.. That near perfect valve doesn’t need to be near perfect AT ALL..

New gear isn’t designed around expensive valves, they usually are designed around failure rate and long term availability to figure cost. At least the valve amps I use are.
As a venture capitalist, if I had to launch a government subsidized glass, metallurgy and chemical doping facility with skilled workers and access to engineering talent, including the lax safety and environmental controls needed to compete globally with China and Russia… it would be in a red stare, Texas…
That would work, good gas supply, good transportation options.. More conducive to business and a good workforce, I think? I don't know, I was born in Waco Texas, I'm gonna be buried in Rosebud, TX.

Sure FLAT.. Sure Hot.. Sure friendly.

Regards
Run For Your Lives! The Russians Are Coming! The Russians Are Coming!

"I’m glad those in our cybersecurity community are (now) taking it more seriously than you are."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3TpBfnaEmI





but since i worked globally, including at an old Mig factory, I would pick the Czech Republic…somewhere within bicycle distance from Pilsen ……

no surf and salt air in Rosebud heavy, but i get it….bones aint meant to wander…. 
Line at the border?  
No way.  
They all got Sleepy Joe "get in for free" cards.
Post removed 
"Sleepy Joe" is a sophomoric put down invented by a narcissistic sociopath...

A little touchy, are we? It’s really better to let a minor slight like that slide. The thread is more likely to stay about audio and not politics if you do.

Fuzztone shouldn't have posted what he did either.  To paraphrase Rodney King, can't we all just discuss audio?
You going to believe a guy that slaps “Mullard”, “Tung-Sol” and “Gold Lion” labels on Russian tubes?
Don't worry about, as long as there is demand, there will be supply in the market.
"Harvest energy from the magnetosphere" so guess where the funds from the upcoming "price gouge" will go? Some old films show the very specialized machines and the amount of labor involved making vacuum tubes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y Additionally, the chemicals and metals involved can be toxic, so forget meeting EU or US standards. It's no wonder that this production is supported in places with lax safety standards, a higher skilled labor force and low labor costs like China or Russia. Good QC is also critical. It's very unlikely that this form of production would ever return to the U.S.
I wish our tube amp users well. My take on the amplification sector, the fly over, is in my review of the Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra Amplifier at Dagogo.com 

Imo, it's not going to be much fun in the future for our tube fans. I see this factory announcement as writing on the wall. You did notice the reference to tech shift several times in the article? There are consequences to such shifts that will impinge upon amp makers and owners. 

Frankly, as a system builder, the article is a moot point to me. My assessment is that holistically some brands/models of class D have already surpassed tube amps as a genre. I do not think it will be long before enough of the audiophile community concurs with their wallets. That's when the real crisis for tube amp makers in HiFi begins. 

I do not think it will be too long before it will be difficult to sell an obscure (to the public) tube amp. Eventually, you will have trouble giving it away. With the dying off of Baby Boomers, this could be within 3-5 years. 

From where I sit, it's going class D whether you like it or not. Thankfully, imo, the sound has already been demonstrated to be worth the switch, at least for me and in regard to the i.V4 Ultra. I plan further investigation into other notable class D). Those who prefer what is imo unnaturally syrupy, boomy, bloated sound (or, as they might describe as "full") will have a problem.   :(

As they used to say, before the era where everyone thinks they are an incontrovertible authority, YMMV.   :)