I've owned 3 pairs of Vandersteens (1B, 2C and 2Ce Sig II). Also owned Electro-Voice, Genesis, Boston Acoustic, Acoustat, Klipsch, Mission, Monitor Audio, Pioneer and B&W.
Just sold the 2Ce Sigs. Still have the Pioneers (living room), the Monitor Audios (bedroom), and recently purchased the B&W 803 D3 for the dedicated listening room.
For me, the 803s do everything I like a speaker to do. They were the store demo models and I got them for close to your budget ($11K).
Compared to the Sig IIs, the 803s are more dynamic, have more bass, have cleaner bass, mids, and highs, image better, play louder, and just flat out sound better. As they should considering they cost $20k new vs $3.6K for the current Sig III. That's how I hear them. I LOVE how they sound. Just my 2c. YMMV
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You should post this on the Vandersteen forum (go to website and look for the forum tab).
I own the Treo CT's and Sub 3's. They really come pretty close to a pair of Quatro's. So, if you don't have the budget now, you can buy the Sub 3's later and still get the sound you love, at a very reasonable price.
Other speakers I wanted:
Magnepan, Sound Labs, MBL.
(working on getting the latter, but not in a rush).
Bob
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I have 5A's.....use Ayre electronics with great satisfaction
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Triangle Signature Deltas at $8500 pair. Air, depth, width, and beautiful mid-range.
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Patrick, may I suggest you go and hear some Tannoys? You may fall in love with them as well (it's been 55 years for me).
Regards,
Dan
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You should post this on the Vandersteen forum
I would never do that...that is Richard V’s house. He has been generous with me in offering information (even calling me once) as have others on that site. One member just had me to his home to hear his Vandy 7s (WOW), and thinks I should get Treo CTs, and he isn’t wrong. I am interested in what current or former Vandy owners who love/loved that Vandy sound think of other brands of speakers that also appeal.
The speakers I have not heard that appeal because their design is so different (omni or cross-firing, with a much more "live" presentation) are the Larsens and the MBLs. It is a different experience than front-firing speakers. In the case of the Larsen, they can be placed against the front wall and are much less finicky as far as placement and room interaction goes.
In the end, I will likely get Treos but it never hurts to to a bit of research, right? I remembered you have Treos and you're right... adding a Vandy Sub3 or two at some point gets me close to the Quatro in a phased acquisition.
Cheers
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If you’re reading this, a certain person whose handle begins with T, don’t think I am a heretic or defector or don’t appreciate your advice and generosity. I do! I get analysis paralysis or over-analyze and second/third/fourth guess myself. It’s a drag.
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Congrats on the B&Ws and getting a good deal! To be fair though, they are in the same (new) price bracket as the Vandy Quatro CTs, and I would buy those in a heartbeat and never look back. They are special. Cheers.
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Uh, as a big Vandy fan I’d never point you in another direction as I find it highly unlikely you’ll find something that’ll unseat them. That said, if it was me and you have access to any of these other makes I’d highly recommend you listen to Joseph Audio, Usher, Boenicke, ProAc, Audio Physic, Reference 3a, and especially Verity Audio. Not saying any of them are “better” than Vandy, but those are the ones I’ve found that do many of the same things and certainly worth listening to if you can. Just my $0.02 FWIW. B&W, uh, no.
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I heard the Josephs at the Seattle show recently and they sounded VERY nice. I'll look up the others...thanks.
P
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I own 5As, still love them, but have Perlisten S7t and enjoy them more.
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OP- Thanks! I'm still a Vandy fan, just wanted something different currently. Completely understand why you want to stay with the brand. They are wonderful sounding speakers. In the end, all that matters is what makes each of us happy.
Hope you find a good deal on the Treos or Quatros, they are worth waiting for.
Tom
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Commercial speakers:
- Fritz
- Monitor Audio
- Sonus Faber Amati Heritage
Should say that in a hotel room, Vandersteen and Fritz always stand out as eminently listenable.
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I’m still a Vandy fan, just wanted something different currently
I get it! I used to laugh at the guys who say "I’m a Ford man" or "You won’t catch me driving anything but a Chevy!" 😁
Variety is the spice of life and all those other cliches, and yet I’ve had Vandys for so long I feel like I’m cheating on my wife emotionally, by looking at other brands. It’s MY issue (I am loyal to a fault)! If I had the dough, I’d have a bigger house, a perfect dedicated listening room, and a living room system (maybe with Larsen 9s), a listening room system (Quatro CTs or Kentos, and MBLs for variety), a bedroom system etc, and they would all be different. Alas, I’m lucky to have one small 12X15 room all to myself, and one system. No complaints.
Cheers
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I appreciate the replies! Some brands are familiar to me and I’ve even heard some of those. Others I would have to look up and read about. Since I am somewhat lazy, the thought of driving near and far, or even very far, to audition some of the more esoteric brands makes me tired. I’m going to SoCal in a few months for a few weeks and may have time to visit some dealers. But—my sloth may overcome me and I will then just get Vandy Treo CTs and I know I will not be unhappy.
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If your willing to purchase used then look at/for Thiel CS3.7s .
They like Vandersteens are coherent in their design .
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Um, I would never put Thiel and Vandersteens in the category of similar sounding. The treble balance is so very different.
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+1 @erik_squires
If you would consider buying used, what about a well cared for pair of 5A's? If only considering new then I'd wait until I had the funds for Quatros. I am using Verity Audio Parsifal Encores and agree with many of the suggestions offered by others above.
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A review of the previous generation Vandersteen Treo, by John Atkinson. He loved them, so I wish he would review the newest CT.
Treo review from 2013
--> Hi jc4659
Actually, I have been keeping my eyes out for used Quatro CTs and Treo CTs (there is a pair listed here on Agon for sale in PA ... like new, xlnt price but for local sale only and I am in WA state).
"My" Vandy dealer in WA is brokering the sale of a 3 year old but mint pair of Quatro CTs for the seller, who upgraded to Kentos. They are spectacular in rosewood (which is probably a $4000 upgrade now for that wood). I mean, drop-dead gorgeous. $15,000 with the 7 crossovers. Anyone interested can p/m me and I'll give the contact info. $15K is about 50% over budget for me, sadly.
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look at legacys the signature
they offer a huge amount of benefits and can esily compete with far more expensive loudspeakers:
signatures
bass down to 22hz
very efficient 98db yet easy to drive
very advanced drivers Heil AMT tweeter and Midrange
carbon and Silk lower midrange
best bang for the buck loudspeakers on the Market
Dave and Troy
audio intellect NJ
Legacy dealer
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I run my Vandersteens with Audio Research and AudioQuest cables with great results.
Moving from the 2CE Sig 3 to the Treo CT is a huge leap. Probably bigger than you realize. I'm sure you would be absolutely thrilled with the Treo CT. That carbon tweeter is really something, but you might also consider the non CT Quatro on the used market. I'd expect them to cost about the same and they would have the edge in bass, if that's more important to you.
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Patrick, I read you're in Washington State, I wonder, where? I've been ensconsed on Whidbey Island since 1971. It's a hard place to meet other A-philes, I'm the only one I know on the 63 miles-long island. Poor me.
I do love my system, though. (and my wife).
Regards,
Dan
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Greetings, Dan! I’m in Port Angeles. I thought when we moved here we would spend a lot more time going to Seattle but we really don’t (but should more). I do trek down to Tacoma to the local closest friendly Vandersteen dealer.
P
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Yep
I've lived in the same shack here on West Beach for 29 years. I've had plenty of time to work on my system in all these years. Had to have my woodstove moved to a side wall so my system could be located on the end wall of my living room.
House is only around 1200 sq. .ft; but the living/dining/ kitchen is all located in one long room, though the ceiling is lowered in the dining room and kitchen. Living room is cathedral ceilings.
I have a wonderful system, and the house is a very big reason for that. I have not needed to provide any room acoustic treatments, I feel very fortunate about that.
I'm 75 years old, taking care of my Dementia addled wife (still a lovely person, though), I've had a stroke a couple of years ago, my right side of my body is numb, but I can still walk, talk, and look the same, but its cut my activity level down a great deal, but my hearing is still good, thank the Gods up there.
Music has been a constant my whole life, even though I wasn't able to pursue a carreer in it, it's a major factor in my quality and enjoyment of ilfe.
I listen to classical, jazz, blues, and a bit of rock 'n roll. Listen largely to CD's but I also use my DIY Garrard 401/Denon 501 quite a bit too. It has amazed me lately at how it sounds with an Acutex M320 III STR cartridge.
Lots of fun (I hope for you too), regards,
Dan
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In the '90s, I was in the market for a pair of speakers. It was between the Vandy's and Magnepan, when a pair of Apogee Duetta IIs fell into my lap. When they died, I auditioned again Vandy 2CE Signatures and Magnepan 1.7is, both within my budget at the time. The Maggies won out by a lot. I did get the chance to listen to the Trios, and they are a very different beast compared to the 2CE or even the 3As. I'd love to compare them to the Maggie 3.7is. To me, there's just something about the planar sound that keeps drawing me in.
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@patrickdowns
I started out with a PSE Studio1 pre driving a PSE Studio-II amp.
Switched out the PSA S1 for An Audible Illusions Modulus pre, then a Nagra Jazz.
Switched it the PSA S2 for VTL Monoblock compact 100s, then Primaluna Dialogue HP Premium. And used an old NAD and some class-D on them at times..
They seem to sound pretty good no matter what is driving them…
I have not tried Bryson, Ayre or the other usual suspects.
I know I could be happy for life with Vandersteens (Treo, Quatro, or dreaming—the Kento or 7). I am interested in detailed opinions of alternatives in the $10K range though. Thanks!
The March Audio “Sonituva” are pretty good.
I could not close a deal on them, or we were in agreement but it all went south. They are not time/phase correct, but I was going to bi-amp them and maybe use a DEXQ.
But they are about the vest I have heard in the <5k range… so one still needs a sub below for <40Hz…
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I’m 75 years old, taking care of my Dementia addled wife (still a lovely person, though), I’ve had a stroke a couple of years ago, my right side of my body is numb, but I can still walk, talk, and look the same, but its cut my activity level down a great deal, but my hearing is still good, thank the Gods up there.
I am sorry to hear that about your wife (for both of you)—it’s hard stuff. I have told my wife if it happens to me, push me out to sea in my kayak. Not kidding.
I am glad your ears are holding up and music is a source of joy. At 65 I wish the same for myself in 10 or more years. Your place sounds like a lovely oasis.
My best wishes to you. ~PD
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Moving from the 2CE Sig 3 to the Treo CT is a huge leap. Probably bigger than you realize. I'm sure you would be absolutely thrilled with the Treo CT. That carbon tweeter is really something, but you might also consider the non CT Quatro on the used market. I'd expect them to cost about the same and they would have the edge in bass, if that's more important to you.
I know you are right! Those are good options. If I got a deal on like-new Treo CTs (I've missed a few deals) for $7K, I could get the Vandy sub to go with them for the price of a new pair of Treo CTs. Or, get lucky on some used Quatro CTs.
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@islandmandan "Music has been a constant my whole life, even though I wasn't able to pursue a carreer in it, it's a major factor in my quality and enjoyment of ilfe.
We do the best we can with what we have left. I can only listen in mono now, but I still have the music playing most of the day. God bless you.
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I could get the Vandy sub to go with them for the price of a new pair of Treo CTs.
If I was you I’d be on the lookout for two used 2wq subs as there are really good deals out there on those subs now, and two very good subs is almost always better than one great one. And IMHO the 2wq was and still is a damn good sub, and two of’em? End game stuff to me.
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PD and Russ,
Yes, we do our best. We have to have the mindset that being happy is our responsability, enjoying life is what we should try to do, you can't buy happiness, but you can sure have it, and take it with you (and give it away as well).
I still love my wife, still love my home and system, and enjoy what I have. I don't need any more than that.
My best to you guys! Regards,
Dan
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@islandmandan My wife’s mom struggled with dementia, but those of us around her struggled much more, especially her dad and that seems like where you are. I hope you have access to resources to help you (in addition to your stereo) so if things progress and make it even harder on you that you have help. I pray it doesn’t come to that for you, but I know how hard it can be and God Bless for whatever you’re going through because I know how hard, and how heartbreaking, it can be to watch someone you love slowly slip away and there’s nothing you can do to stop it. It’s a cruel and evil disease, and I only hope you the best. Reach out for support/family is the best advice I can give, and keep rewarding yourself with the wonderful gift of music as it can be a refreshing oasis for you because you need to keep caring for yourself in addition to your wife. Again, I completely identify and appreciate what you’re going through, and you seem like a supremely optimistic and courageous man, but don’t take it all on your own shoulders because it’s likely you just can’t at some point. You have my sincere thoughts and prayers, and my wife is a social worker and obviously gone through this with her mom who has sadly passed, but if you need any advice on support services that you and/or your wife might need please reach out to me. For example, when her disease progressed and my father-in-law needed a break and she needed stimulation/support a bus would come pick her up and take her to a place where she got stimulated and interaction with others, and it was all funded by NY State. Anyway, sorry to drone on here, but just know that you are not alone in this and there are people/services that can help improve both you and your wife’s quality of life if needed. Yours in life and music.
Tim
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@patrickdowns figured I’d throw in my input.
I had 3’s for 30 years with sending them in for upgrades 3 times, the last time a full upgrade to Signature 3 spec on all parts. ( Richard’s answer when I asked what would be different before I sent them was “ the only thing you will get back from your speakers is the wood, the frame and maybe the cloth”)
I was thinking about the switch to Treo’s and went and listened to them ( New Jersey dealer, well thought of) and after my audition I went to look at some finishes in another building with him ( basically deciding on what I was going to buy) and he had some Harbeth SLH 5 Anniversary speakers set up that he had on commission. I had never heard Harbeths so I asked for a listen.
I ended up buying a pair of the Harbeth SLH 5 Anniversary about two years ago.
I loved my Sig 3’s and liked the Treo’s which to my ear had similar sound but just cleaner with more detail.
The Harbeths are to me even more detailed and incredibly realistic while being not fatiguing in any way. The first day I had the Harbeths they seemed almost too detailed, it was like the Sig 3’s had been more blended…? But after a few hours I haven’t looked back in any way.
The real input is to just get what sounds right to you. Just give your ears a touch of time to adapt if the sound is different at first. For me hearing the Harbeths that first time they just seemed effortlessly detailed and they just stuck in my brain.
Enjoy!
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If I was you I’d be on the lookout for two used 2wq subs as there are really good deals out there on those subs now, and two very good subs is almost always better than one great one. And IMHO the 2wq was and still is a damn good sub, and two of’em? End game stuff to me.
Hard to argue against @soix logic ^here^.
…
I was thinking about the switch to Treo’s and went and listened to them ( New Jersey dealer, well thought of) and after my audition I went to look at some finishes in another building with him ( basically deciding on what I was going to buy) and he had some Harbeth SLH 5 Anniversary speakers set up that he had on commission. I had never heard Harbeths so I asked for a listen.
I ended up buying a pair of the Harbeth SLH 5 Anniversary about two years ago.
…
The Treos, I believe, are more tolerant to being shoved against a wall than the model 2 or 3… I unsure about the Harbeths, but if you like em, then that is great.
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I ended up buying a pair of the Harbeth SLH 5 Anniversary about two years ago.
I've listened to the Harbeth 30 and 40 at Gig Harbor (WA) Audio (a fine store to visit)... sweet speakers! That "BBC sound" is special. It is interesting that their enclosures are pretty live, and are part of the sound they create much like the body of a guitar, with the resonances. Or so I have read. Richard V builds the cabinets for the Treo CT and Quatro (and the others I assume) with a box in a box, to eliminate as much cabinet resonance as possible (again, what I recall reading). Two different approaches, both right for each maker. That is the fascinating thing about speaker design. Magico takes it to the extreme, CNC milling their cabinets out of aluminum and using carbon fiber. VERY expensive, but they get an inert cabinet.
Someone else pointed out that the Treo is designed to go very near the front wall. which is something I need. The planars like Maggies do best 5-6 feet from the front wall, and my room is too small.
Cheers.
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I’d try DeVore Fidelity - a little more open than Vandys and with low order crossovers.
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what a lovely civil and helping thread…warms my heart….maybe just maybe there are great caring humans here after all….
Cast a wandering ear as far and wide as you want to…. i have crossed oceans to hear gear that interested me. It like music is global. IF you get to California you know where to find me and Treo CT w sub3.
@islandmandan Good on you and yours…grace peace and happiness . In my younger years i spent a bit of time surf fishing Steelhead on the wild sides of your Island… Paradise….
there is a lot of experience, wisdom and maturity in advice given… most if not all suggestions could certainly lead to musical bliss….. I won’t belabor all the various combinations of Vandy products new and or used that can also get you there…plenty of that going on the owners forum on the Vandy site.
enjoy the journey !
Jim
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@russ69 @soix ;-) my absolute best to you…. much Grace in your helping posts….
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Cabinet in a cabinet starts w Treo. It’s expensive… The 7 is cabinet in cabinet and a carbon fiber layer. The 1-2-3 aka sock series are too budget constrained to get the lower distortion cabinets, ditto the original sock Quattro. I will mention, ALL the Vandy cabinets are built in house in California…..
The 5 series are massively braced and use a very dense stack w milled cavity for the head assembly. The 5A is as mentioned a fantastic speaker….still today…. probably a bit much in your room… just my $.02.
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what a lovely civil and helping thread…warms my heart….maybe just maybe there are great caring humans here after all….
I had the EXACT same thought as I re-read the replies.
I do hope to see you in CA, and hope you get together with my pal John. Thanks for all of your advice and input so far.
Best,
PD
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i’ve listened to the 2CE model on NAD electronics [the combo was on the darker side] and i’ve listened to my 1CI on a rega brio R [brighter balance but utterly non-harsh]. both DEMAND a larger than average listening room with plenty of breathing space around the speakers to where they are no closer than 3 feet from the rear wall and at least twice that from side walls. put them in any room smaller than that and those speakers tend to sound shouty. if i had at least a 20’ wide and 20’ deep [8’+ ceilings a must] listening room, i’d take my vandies out from storage and give them another listen. they made everything, even sub-par recordings, sound decent enough at least for casual listening in the aforementioned giant room. they had 3D imaging [ultra-narrow sweet spot] in an entry-level price point. then again, my thiel cs.5 speakers will do that in a tiny [14’ wide and deep] room, which is why i listen to the thiel speakers rather than the vandies. plus the thiels throw a much wider image beyond the outside edges of l/r speaker, with more depth.
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In my younger years i spent a bit of time surf fishing Steelhead on the wild sides of your Island… Paradise….
@tomic601 have you tried NZ?
A coworker (Brown) went there and did a bunch of stream work.
His guide told him to bait the hook behind a tree. When he asked why, the guide told him that the fish will jump out of the stream to take the bait right out of your hand.
I was not quite as hooked when I went shopping back in the day, and they were only up to the model 2 then. But eventually I was hooked, and not a lot lured me in.
But that was ages ago… it is easier to stumble upon good speakers these days.
I’d try DeVore Fidelity - a little more open than Vandys and with low order crossovers.
@keithr funny you should mention them. I only heard them at the beginning of this year, but I was pretty impressed at the soundstage width.
(Some place in downtown Los Angeles)
They seems like they had a lot of distortion, but in a pleasing way, and it might have been the Jadis stuff that powered them causing that “fullness”.
They were impressive.
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I’ve owned the Vandersteen 2c and 3a. Placement was always a PITA. If you have a Spendor dealer in your neck of the woods you should give them a listen. If you like the sound of Vandersteens I think you will like Spendors!
https://spendoraudio.com/
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both DEMAND a larger than average listening room with plenty of breathing space around the speakers to where they are no closer than 3 feet from the rear wall and at least twice that from side walls. put them in any room smaller than that and those speakers tend to sound shouty. if i had at least a 20’ wide and 20’ deep [8’+ ceilings a must] listening room
That hasn’t been my experience with 2CEs. YMMV. I’ve run mine in a 18x22’ LR with 16’ ceilings, in a slightly smaller room with 10’ ceilings, and in my current 12x15 room (speakers on long wall, so a 9’ throw to listening chair), and with careful setup they’ve never been "shouty." Vandersteen provides precise suggestions for setup and placement, which works. Tilt-back matters, as does toe-in. Mine are about 30" from front wall to front of speaker. IMO, the sweet spot isn’t super narrow, but there is one. (For that reason, the Larsen speakers appeal to me because they are much more placement friendly incl up against front wall, and have a wider sweet spot and when you’re out of it they still sound good.)
I get an excellent soundstage (width and depth) from my 2CEs, with very nice phantom center imaging (all dependent on the recording, of course). Ones front-end is also a factor in what the speakers produce.
Interesting that the Thiel CS.5 sorta looks like a 2-way version of the Vandersteen Treo. I've heard and liked Thiels back in the day.
Cheers
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Spendor was founded in the late 1960s by Spencer and Dorothy Hughes – the ‘Spen’ and ‘Dor’ in the name. Spencer applied the knowledge and expertise he’d gained as an engineer in the BBC’s sound engineering department to create his first loudspeaker, the BC1. This game-changing design quickly became the monitor of choice for broadcasters and recording studios worldwide.
I'd forgotten how they got the same Spendor! And then there was the evolution, the "family tree" of the other BBC-type speakers, the Graham and Harbeth, and some of those folks were actual family of Spencer and Dorothy, iirc.
I have heard and liked Grahams and Harbeths. If I was interested in a 2-way stand mount monitor, they would be on the list. I'd have them for a smaller 2nd system for sure. Different flavors are good! I have no experience with the Spendor floor standers.
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Jim and Richard were friends ( RIP Jim - another on the list of greats lost early ). They certainly shared many design objectives; First order filters, minimum front baffle, time and phase correct. They differed on a few points but much more in common back then. … Until recently i maintained a set of CS 2.3 + in an ancillary system w Quad ESL 63, Apogee Stage, Magnepan LRS, Heavily modified Cornwall…well the list is long…. and what did i say about casting a wandering ear ? Probably the biggest Theil design departure is the philosophy of flat at listening position…. which presents as bright to some people in some systems in some rooms. Both Jim and Richard are measure AND listen guys…. these are just facts…
Vandersteen do make a coaxial speaker w cabinet in cabinet the VLR - Signature which incorporates the carbon tweeter. They are designed for near wall, stand mount and pair extremely well w Vandy subs 3 or used 2’s. A set of stands from sound anchor and away you go. Can’t say who but a guy w many platinum records use VLR on his mixing board…. It’s ALL fun…
Enjoy the music
Jim
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the VLR - Signature which incorporates the carbon tweeter. They are designed for near wall, stand mount and pair extremely well w Vandy subs 3
I have read about these, and they deserve a listen. I don’t have a place for a 2nd (or 3rd!) system. In my dreams, I’d have the main system, and the 2nd one would employ a variety of speakers and amps to mix and match for fun. Wait—I tell myself that I’m not a gearhead so what am I saying! 😎
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I hope you have access to resources to help you (in addition to your stereo) so if things progress and make it even harder on you that you have help. I pray it doesn’t come to that for you, but I know how hard it can be and God Bless for whatever you’re going through because I know how hard, and how heartbreaking, it can be to watch someone you love slowly slip away and there’s nothing you can do to stop it. It’s a cruel and evil disease, and I only hope you the best.
Your whole comment was so compassionate. I can tell you are a good egg. Peace.
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@patrickdowns ,
I am the guy who bought the Treo CT's in PA. They are replacing my non-CT Treo's. To be honest, even the non-CT version plays pretty darn close to the CT.
I also own the VLR's for my office system. I really can't understand why these little guys don't get more respect. Yes, I doubted their abilities, at first, but despite their small size, they bested a pair of Zu Omen Bookshelves by more than a mile.
Adding a sub will enhance either speaker. The new Vandy Sub 3 offers built in equalization which makes it one of the best subs out there.
As others have mentioned, even the 2wq subs are good replacements-especially if finances are an issue. They are built like tanks- even 30 year old 2w's are still working as they should.
And, do not feel you will not be welcome at the Vandy Forum. In fact, many of those responding here are members.
HTH
Bob
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Hey Bob! Congrats on the Treo CTs! I emailed the guy about them and he said he thought he had a buyer.
A few years ago I missed out on a mint, 1 year old pair on consignment at Johnny R’s Audio Connection. They were boxed and ready to ship, on a pallet. I hesitated and lost. Like-new pairs of them at a good price like you paid come up for sale very rarely, it seems. I look all the time.
I’m happy for you!
Pat
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