Directionality Explained


I have read it argued against by those who think they know
Here is proof
Paul Speltz Founder of ANTICABLES shares his thoughts about wire directionality. Dear Fellow Audiophiles, As an electronic engineer, I struggled years ago with the idea of wire being directional because it did not fit into any of the electrical models I had learned. It simply did not make sense to me that an alternating music signal should favor a direction in a conductor. One of the great things about our audio hobby is that we are able to hear things well before we can explain them; and just because we can’t explain something, doesn't mean that it is not real. 

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/05/wire-directionality.html#more
tweak1
How does that explain directionality? 
Eggs ackley! It doesn’t. Everybody just copies what everybody else says. The sky is blue! 🤗
"The sky is falling"!!!
Listen guys, one thing that will save us all a lot of time, we are willing for the sake of argument to concede anyone can post anything at any time, relevance not required, jokes don't even have to be funny. So you can all stop proving it. Any time. Please. Thanks.

Also reading comprehension, obviously not required. Certainly not evident.

"While wire directionality is not fully understood, it is clear that because of the wire casting process the internal grain structure of the conductor has a slight chevron shape, and this physical difference is consistent with which direction the wire sounds better."

So there.
Sorry, no offense, but that doesn’t explain it either. Perhaps it would be helpful if we defined what explain means. As I said previously people just copy what everyone else says. 
We have cheap 192kHz / 32 bit analog to digital converters and terabyte drives available which would allow any idea of conditionality to be examined and compared.

If there was any, and I mean any, bit of difference in cable direction we would be able to measure it.

The exception to this, of course, is shielded cables whose shield should be connected at the source. It has nothing to do with conductor direction as much as noise reduction though.

Best,

E


Oh, good! A volunteer. 🤗
Post removed 
"I have read it..."

Now I read it, too. I could not find the proof, but I read the advertisement.
I've been looking up photos of copper wire under a microscope, I'm not seeing this " Chevron shape". 
I remember seeing photos of that chevron shape deformity in copper wires long ago but cannot locate them. However, there is this:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/245161371_Prediction_of_chevron_crack_initiation_in_inclusion_copper_shaped-wire_drawing

It seems the chevrons are a result of the wire being pulled through the die and are a deformity.

All the best,
Nonoise
--------------> matters

Only thing that makes sense now, is to go feed the chickens, and the goat.  I'm moving in that direction. ------------> not <------------ that direction.

can't get there from here...wrong direction...

Regards...
"can't get there from here...wrong direction..."
You can. It may just be a longer walk.
Even if there are chevrons on the wire it doesn’t prove that the wire is directional. Finding a photo of chevrons only proves that the wire surface is cosmetically damaged when it’s pulled through the die.
Most degreed engineers I know that work in electronics, are electrical engineers, and refer to themselves as electrical engineers or electrical and electronics engineers. Degreed electrical/electronics engineers would also be well aware of transmission line effects in cables, and most with any experience would be quite aware of bulk circuit effects which would occur in anything that is not symmetrical in nature. They could probably even come up with a few more reasons for directionality. I can’t help but question your "engineering" qualifications based on your statement.

A degreed and working engineer, work not consider the article you link to be an explanation or proof at all. They would just view it as marketing blurb.


Of course, a degreed electrical/electronics engineer with any experience would be able to quantify, at least to an order or two in magnitude, the effects of these directional properties of cables at audio frequencies, at which point they would conclude directional effects, which are a given in virtual anything not perfectly symmetrical that carries current, would not be remotely audible, and hence are not truly "directional" in an audio sense.

As an electronic engineer, I struggled years ago with the idea of wire being directional because it did not fit into any of the electrical models I had learned. It simply did not make sense to me that an alternating music signal should favor a direction in a conductor.

heaudio123
Most degreed engineers I know that work in electronics, are electrical engineers, and refer to themselves as electrical engineers or electrical and electronics engineers. Degreed electrical/electronics engineers would also be well aware of transmission line effects in cables, and most with any experience would be quite aware of bulk circuit effects which would occur in anything that is not symmetrical in nature. They could probably even come up with a few more reasons for directionality. I can’t help but question your "engineering" qualifications based on your statement.

A degreed and working engineer, work (sic) not consider the article you link to be an explanation or proof at all. They would just view it as marketing blurb.

>>>>You know some degreed engineers who work in electronics? Lots of laughs! Give us a break! That is the perfect example of a logical fallacy - Appeal to Authority, favored by pseudo skeptics the world over who try to win technical arguments by quoting an engineer “buddy“ or famous expert. You might as well quote Einstein or Maxwell or Toole. Better luck next time! But kudos on your writing skills. An English major, one presumes, yes? 😀

Appeal to Authority
“When writers or speakers use Appeal to Authority they are claiming that something must be true because it is believed by someone who said to be an "authority" on the subject. Whether the person is actually an authority or not, the logic is unsound. Instead of presenting actual evidence, the argument just relies on the credibility of the "authority."“
geoffkait, when someone is blinded by a dogmatic need to behave in a certain way, then will often read into a situation what they want to read or and unfortunately that interferes with their comprehension and objectivity. 


I didn't use a call to authority. I pointed out the skill set that would be expected of a degreed working electrical engineer. Pointing out a skill set is not a call to authority. Next I pointed out that a person with those qualifications would a) not make certain statements, b) have the skills to analyze a certain situation and c) not consider marketing fluff proof or evidence.  Someone who is not being dogmatic would understand that is not a call to authority.

Would a person trying to claim something about wires and starting it with "I am an electrical engineer" be considered as "appeal to authority"?


Or, is he just an authority?

Or, when he says he did not understand anything, is he a non-authority and is not worth listening to?


Please advise.

I think it was an appeal to marketing fluff. "I'm an EE and I used to not believe stuff then I got this idea to sell stuff and now I hear stuff and my stuff is better because of stuff."

heaudio123
geoffkait, when someone is blinded by a dogmatic need to behave in a certain way, then will often read into a situation what they want to read or and unfortunately that interferes with their comprehension and objectivity.

>>>>Exactly! You understand yourself better than I thought. 
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. All you need to do is put on your listening ears. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. We observe, we learn - Socrates 🤗
Maybe quarks and spectro-spin comes into it all as well - but WHY?!?... 🤔 
RESISTANCE is futile, and in this case where you will find the answer
Sorry, dude, no answers, just more questions! You ran it up the flagpole but nobody saluted. That’s the way it goes sometimes.
I'm on day 5 of having covid-19 and feel awful, this thread was just the laugh I needed!
Hope you get to feeling better, cable threads are usually good for a chuckle.
geared4me,
"...this thread was just the laugh I needed!"
Laugh? What laugh? This is a serious business.

Wishing you quick recovery.
Wait til you get to day 10. You’ll be laughing so hard milk will be squirting out of your nose. 
@Millercarbon:

First of all, wire is NOT “cast”; it’s drawn through a series of tungsten carbide or synthetic diamond dies, and annealed in a furnace under inert atmosphere every several passes to remove the work hardening from the drawing process. 
Second, unless you are passing straight DC current; musical signals should be thought of as a mix of sign waves of many frequencies and amplitudes. Signal analyzers use a processing chip that does FFT (fast Fourier transformation) to reduce the musical signal to its component sign waves.
This is you queue geoffkait. Make a pithy, but ultimately idiotic comment. Have at it ... we are all waiting.
(By popular demand, to a pensive audience on the Cable Conundrum...*drum roll*...)
OK, I am going to pool together some of my buddies - each an expert in different disciplines, then pretend like I know them all :-)
heaudio, I’m oft struck by how full of pith you are. I like your moniker though, it’s so uh, authoritative sounding. Begone, stalker!
One of the great things about our audio hobby is that we are able to hear things well before we can explain them; and just because we can’t explain something, doesn't mean that it is not real

OMG
I am quite certainly that anyone with 21,901 posts cannot call anyone else a stalker, though you appear to be attracted to my posts like a fly to flypaper. Buzz buzz buzz.

p.s. the HE does not stand for High End, but the E may stand for Electroacoustic. I don’t think you will ever guess what the H stands for.

geoffkait21,901 posts05-19-2020 6:24amheaudio, I’m oft struck by how full of pith you are. I like your moniker though, it’s so uh, authoritative sounding. Begone, stalker!

Gee, that’s weird. You act like I care. 
I don’t think you will ever guess what the H stands for.
That's an open ended request for abuse.

Q: What did one electron say to the other electron?

A: We were all in the queue waiting for the cue to start moving.

Hero (in his own mind) 😇

Alternate answer: Harrumph! 😤
Or a never ending loop for someone with the initials GK.
nonoise5,947 posts05-19-2020 1:23pm
I don’t think you will ever guess what the H stands for.
That’s an open ended request for abuse.

Did you think of that all by yourself? Maybe you should consider hiring a ghost writer.
Good grief!  All of you flat earthers... just try it without condemnation.  Ignorant is easy.

Here are a couple of other heresies:

Firewire cables - reverse them and see what sounds the best

IEC C7 cables into gear - try inverting the cable into your gear to hear any differences.  This particularly important when using a Mac mini as a source... not subtle.

Just sayin’.  Before you belittle others do some easy homework.  Or, you can just copy from others and learn nuthin’.
Monoprice has IEC C7 cords for $4.12 if you need one for the mini mac. 
What is it about wires that makes them sound better in one direction compared to the other?
....maybe the electrons just like a change of pace...in this case, 'thataway'....*shrug*

A query....does this work for both new And old cables?

(...the ones' without 'arrows'...)
Mapman.

it has nothing to do with directionality with the mini.  It is about the input to the SMPS and the relationship to ground.  SMPS are sensitive to input characteristics.
...when the 'pop-up' ads @ the bottom of a page show this...

http://www.rfengineers.com/watch-dog.html

...and previously, an ad for cattle feed....rather well presented, but obviously for bovines.....definitely not Purina Cow Chow (which does exist).....

I'm going to bed....I have a dog already, and she's not a receiver...or a retriever....(Plott hound/Pitt bull mix)....nor an 'audio accessory' of questionable value 'here'..

That's just....weird....mho....