Directionality Explained


I have read it argued against by those who think they know
Here is proof
Paul Speltz Founder of ANTICABLES shares his thoughts about wire directionality. Dear Fellow Audiophiles, As an electronic engineer, I struggled years ago with the idea of wire being directional because it did not fit into any of the electrical models I had learned. It simply did not make sense to me that an alternating music signal should favor a direction in a conductor. One of the great things about our audio hobby is that we are able to hear things well before we can explain them; and just because we can’t explain something, doesn't mean that it is not real. 

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/05/wire-directionality.html#more
tweak1

Showing 40 responses by andy2

If the impact on frequency response is <0.1db there is little(no) evidence we can detect a difference and even more variance at the upper end of the spectrum to detect a difference. Now try to find a cable not inherently directional, i.e. with circuitry that has 0.1db difference in the audio spectrum by changing direction. Feel free to use square waves for tests with bandwidth limiting and real speakers for transmission line effects.
I don’t think it’s just one number. Anyway, I think our audible perception of music is a bit more complicated than just one or two simple measurements.

Also why ".1dB"? Somebody would come here and say "no, it’s more like 0.08dB". It seems a bit arbitrary.  And it comes back to what has been said "who gets to decide?".

Also you may have a situation in which you have a set of cables all will meet your "0.1dB" threshold, but they all will sound different for obvious reason.
I have to say it is a bit naive to think one can make some basic measurements of the cables and then trying to correlate that to human perception of music ... just saying.  
I think human hearing is just to complicated to be analyzed by just one or two numbers.  
OK, I am going to pool together some of my buddies - each an expert in different disciplines, then pretend like I know them all :-)
listening tests reveled larger differences in sound quality than could be explained by the differences in resistance. I mean, come on, guys, all audio circuits are AC. The resistance is not necessarily the reason why sound is different according to direction, it is evidence. Nevertheless, the lowest resistance direction of the fuse always correlates to best sound quality. See, that’s not so hard, is it?

OK, why don't you copy and paste and post here where it says there was any difference in the fuse direction?

It’s not naive at all. That’s what HiFi Tuning some time ago did for fuses. Their measurements of the voltage drop across various brands of fuses, both high end and stock, in both directions 🔛 correlate to listening results. The results are consistent, repeatable and transferrable. Yes, I know what you’re thinking, I never heard that before.
There are too many variables and I don't know the detail of the test.  It may not have anything to do with direction at all.  The lower resistance reading could come from a number of factor.


It’s an AC signal, for crying out loud, anything it does in one direction it will do in the other.
It’s already been discussed to death. AC current is "directional". Need to go back and read previous posts.  Or google "Poynting vector".

Go find it yourself!
I found none.  Couldn't find it.  Copy and paste it here or it didn't happen.
^ link?  Otherwise it's just your words.  I have to say it's not easy to trust your words.
Well it’s hard to argue with regard to directionality against the data if indeed the data are valid.  One thing is the average difference is about 0.000005 Ohm (or about in that neighborhood).  Given the difference is so small, has the data been "massaged"?  Also the study didn't mention the sonic difference with respect to directionality - only show DC resistance.
Or it will read 120.99999999.....
I don't think I "keep bringing it up".  I just want to point out the origin of the argument.
Back to the study, that fact that the difference of resistance in both direction is so small, it does beg the question if the study was valid or the data been massaged or skewed?

Also nowhere in the study said anything about listening impression vs. direction of the fuses.
Here's something more down to earth although I am sure there'll be some who will have their own mental issues.  

Snake Oil and the Velocity of Propagation
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/snake-oil-and-the-velocity-of-propagation/

Actually the sky is black. The blue color comes from the sun. But oh! wait. The color of the sun is not blue. Our sun is actually classified as "yellow" due to its temperature. Some people think our sun is actually more "green" than "yellow". Some would argue that our sun color is "white" since it has a wide range of color from red to blue.

Damn I am an expert of the Sun thanks to online :-)

The sky is black
The sun is white
Up is the head
In my black a$$

It seems that it works. I just ordered one original King to celebrate geoffkait's 22000 and my 5000. And you guys thought I was kidding.
Now that bride and groom, have given themselves to each other by solemn vows, with the joining of hands and the giving and receiving of rings, I pronounce that they are husband and wife, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. You may now kiss the bride


Jeff playing shy? hard to get?
I feel bad for the guy who tried to look for the "chevron" shape in the wire.  It's like trying to look for a resistor in the wire because the wire has resistance.  

Also AC current is not 100% AC.  There's aspect of it that is like DC.
What does not make sense with my theory,
is that music is traveling through the
wire as an alternating current. This
makes my theory difficult to accept.
At least he realizes the same thing most people have been saying.
Hm... what if I told him AC current is directional?

There are two things that are in favor of directional argument which I already posted in the past.

1. If you got L3>L2>L1, then the impedance may not be the same one direction vs. the other.

2. An AC current is directional even if it's an alternating current.
Also I’ve seen the impedance of the cable changes if you flex them in one way vs. another, that is its impedance changes due to physical orientation. But I have to admit that this is probably caused by the change in the dielectric insulation and probably not because of the wire.  The wire "directionality" in coupled to the dielectric material may play a role.  
If you’re right, then a DC current is also symmetric based on your logic.
AC current simply flows with the charge being pushed by voltage it doesn't care about wire directionality. Flip the wire around and the current flows just the same if there was a difference it too would be easy to measure.
Have a look at Poynting vector.  (Not another wikipage :-) )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poynting_vector


To heaudio123,

You have been saying our hearing is so poor based on scientific evidence, would you mind sharing those "scientific evidences"?

Most bulk circuit effects, i.e. resistance, inductance, capacitance are not even at the level to be audible (unless poorly designed/specified).
Apparently, our hearing can be effective if the cable is "poorly designed".  Based on your logic, all good cables
should sound the same since we cannot hear any differences.

The next question to ask is what constitute a "good cable"?  Who gets to decide?  There is a flaw in this logic.
The voltage changes around any closed loop must sum to zero. No matter what path you take through an electric circuit, if you return to your starting point you must measure the same voltage, constraining the net change around the loop to be zero.
This may be the first time someone using his own logic against himself :-)

Think of a simple voltage divider. The voltage gets smaller and smaller going in the loop. Then at the source, it gets regenerated and we start the same thing all over again.  All the while this going on, the current in the loop is always exactly the same.
If any part of an AC current is directional, then the AC signal itself must be directional - by definition. It’s like 2+2 = 4.

When a cable is connected from the amp to the speaker, energy flows from the amp to the speaker. That is at the amp end, the cable will experience more energy vs. the end closer to the speaker, hence by definition, an AC current is "asymmetric" due to the energy distribution.
hmm... who said the voltage does not sum up to zero?  They always sum up to zero.
Just to add something a bit more specific.

Here is: the current is symmetric, no argue there. But the voltage is not.

For example, as the current flows from the amp to the speaker, due to loses from heat, the energy will be less and less as the current flows toward the load, in this case it's the speakers.  That is the amp will send some energy out, but by the time the energy arrives at the load will be slightly less due to loses such as heat.  If the energy is the same, it would violate the conservation of energy law.

Energy is equal to = V * I.  And since I is symmetric, then it's must be the voltage that is NOT.  That is voltage at the amp end will always be slightly larger than the voltage at the load (speakers).  
This "directionality" at least as it applies to audio, would be easy to measure and/or quantify .... sort of like dielectrics, and once quantified, could be evaluated if within the realm of audibility
Using this logic, then all cables should sound similar since human hearing can hear any difference. 

Most bulk circuit effects, i.e. resistance, inductance, capacitance are not even at the level to be audible (unless poorly designed/specified).
Again, this logic suggests that our audible ability is so poor we couldn't tell the difference.  But it's been shown our hearing is highly acute.

The direction differences in those values, unless intentional, will be orders of magnitude below that .. or inaudible.
Certain an opinion and not a factual statement.  


Also I don't buy the fact that the "resistance" is lower in one direction vs. the other as said here by Mr. Kaitt.

For example, each spool of wire consists of many many meters of wire.  If the wire always measure less resistance in one direction, then by the time you measure from the beginning to the end of the spool, the resistance may go smaller and smaller into "negative".  So this can't explain it either.  
He's on a directional streak.  Somebody needs to flip the direction to slow him down :-)
I wonder how hard it is to copy and paste some text here :-)  Or maybe it does not exist.  
I won't so far as to say fuse does not make any difference.  We know that power cables do make a difference, so by extension, fuses should make a difference since it's in the power path just like the power cables.

My only beef was the claim that the link did any listening test with respect to fuse direction.
You must be rather gullible if you believe whatever I cut and pasted at this point in time
Damn!  I feel bad for your customers.  They are all gullible.


My point was the posted link did not say anything about listening test vs. the fuse directionality.  Maybe I got some problem reading the link, but I couldn't find any.  

If you've found any mention of it , please feel free to post here.
That's my point.  I couldn't find any mention of a listening test that correlated the fuse direction or fuse resistance.
The difference here is I never made any claim of any study with respect to power cable listening test.

If Mr. Geoffkait made such a claim, then he should be responsible for producing a proof of that.
This thread is going well.  By the way, Biden and Trump are close to their 80's, so this country is probably for old men.