Vacuum Tube Snake Oil Salesmen

If you place a towel over the tube and then smash it with the hammer, all the pieces will stay together. Do this in a used Amazon delivery 📦 box that way when you’re done you can just throw it all away no mess

Easy peasy...

https://bestclassicbands.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Dan-Aykroyd-Bag-O-Glass-1.jpg

DeKay

I would only worry about a shorted tube, matching tubes should only be done in the equipment it is used in. I don't think the maximatcher even has a regulated supply.

Yes the shorted tube was the main concern.

For 2A3 you can only test one tube at a time due to the limitations of the tester so it should be reasonably accurate. I doubt it would be off more than a couple mA. Certainly not 20mA or more deviation from what is listed on the tube boxes.

At 325V plate and -60V bias I had 34mA and -45V bias was 43mA. The specs for 2A3 are 80mA when 300V plate and -62V bias. At 250V plate and -45V bias it should be 60mA. So the tubes are way off spec.

The Maximatcher II can handle four KT tubes at a time. I was testing one 2A3 at a time so I doubt I dropped the voltage much if any.

Suggestion, place condemned tube in a paper shopping bag and smash with wooden or plastic hammer handle. 
Enjoy the music. 

Smash the tube.  It sounds like some sort of regression therapy lol.  Crazy.  

Send the defective tube to UPS, they have a lot experience in smashing stuff.  

Good one testpilot - lmao 

Use it as target practice.

@testpilot ,

😆

Very funny answers. But imagine a young person maybe not too experienced with things smashing the tube and having glass fly up and hit them in the face or what if I am in a wheel chair or vision impaired?

I am just saying that is a really bad policy for a manufacturer to take not knowing anything about their customer. OSHA would be all over this here in the USA.

I sent them the photos of the tester and tube showing the internal short which should have been enough. But I think the point was missed that they would only send one replacement tube. Based on the deviation in specs I saw with their other products the chance it would be matched to the other tubes is very low.

I usually order more than what I need and then match them myself once I get them because they are almost never matched properly. But these were a little expensive to do that.

Business practice in China is to ship USA customers their shit tubes and keep the better ones for manufacturers and preferred customers. Just watch the recent video from Decware about tube supply.

Lesson learned!

And that always has value.

Appreciate the post.  Always good to know who not to do business with.

@calieng

 https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/psvane-discussion-impressions-thread?highlight=PSVane

What does psvane (above thread) have to say about this?

Ever notice companies no longer have employees or workers.

They're "team members".

A similar thing happened to me with Psvane. In my case it was a smaller tube that went noisy.  I never tested them. I was told they didn’t want their defective tubes somehow finding their way back in the marketplace. It was also easier for me to smash the tubes than waiting the additional time before a replacement set was sent.  In my mind it was a trouble free process that was handled by Psvane in a professional manner. 

@marco1 

Yes if you are comfortable doing that. I guess the larger 2A3 was a bit of a concern for me because I have 2 dogs and was worried some glass might go flying on the floor and they might step on it. I was also holding my ground on getting a matched pair replacement. I would have even paid the return shipping on the other good tube.

When I got the Maximatcher II and MaxiPreAmp II testers I was really shocked how much we are being lied to. 

There is a USA tube selling company that matches tubes. I have two quads of EL34s from them I bought a couple years ago and have not used yet. I looked at the labels on the boxes. Every tube has the exact same test result for gain and transconductance written on the box! Not possible. When I checked them one set was within 15% of each other and the other set had one tube off by 20%. It is fraud.

@calieng I understand your concern.  I should have mentioned only 1 tube of the pair was bad but at my request Psvane replaced the pair without hesitation.  No question though that like many things you need to be careful you get what you pay for.  Tubes in particular.  

This is why for Tubes, I always go through "middle men" who offer "matching" and have a good reputation.  The prices are usually close enough to justify using a "middle company".   Even if they charge a few dollars more for matching, it is worth it.   Tubes last a long time, it is worth it to go through a reputable dealer that will truely match the tubes and test them.

Sorry to hear your experience, it is good to know what kind of customer service and reliability one gets from different companies... both good and bad. I admit for $1K, I would want tubes on spec and fully functional or a quick and friendly replacement of them all. 

On an other note... no snake oil involved in any of this. 

Well, if I was on the fence regarding a tube amp before, I'm not now. 

I guess you can get some bad transistors in an amp but I seem to recall a certain person smashing cell phones.you might call them and see how they do it.thanks for the alert from marginal vendor.

@ironrick6 

I did not mean to scare anyone away from tube amps. I have a Fezz Audio Lybra 300B tube amp in my main system that I would never trade for any other amp it sounds that good.

Just be aware the overseas dealers are often dumping their lower grade products on us thinking we will not know any better. But also disappointed with some USA resellers not accurately marking their product test results.

For anyone not wanting to spend $1k on a tube tester you can but a socket adapter that connects to a multimeter for $20 and get the tube current for power tubes. It is a little more tedious but you can see if the tubes are all drawing the same current (and likely matched well then). Those a generally used more on guitar amps.

@psvaneaudio  is actively ripping us off.

they have been selling duds and sending out fake test results for a coupla years now.

the number of times ive come across this suggests they just dont test their tubes. 

 

@calieng they demanded I smash the bad tube and send them a picture. Has anyone ever smashed a large vacuum tube with a hammer and seen where all the pieces of glass fly to? I said no way. I will throw it out or return it but I am not going to risk cutting my hand doing that. So they refused to send a replacement. 

Yes. Smashed mine, had to send photos as proof on a pair of 6SN7s. Note: They absolutely do not want you re-selling and putting the degraded tubes back out on the market. Its there policy before they will agree to replace any tubes.  So far so good on my end. Replacements work just fine past 6 months, so far.  Best of Luck. 

@calieng 

Duly noted, and thank you for the tube testing tips, I can do that!! 

I will exhale now.

edit: for grammar.

An eloquent treatise in furtherance of using solid state only.

If you want to roll the dice with PSvane  by purchasing direct from the manufacturer, then that is not the best way to go. Others suggested purchasing from Amazon because of their Return policy. I gave up on PSvane tubes a few years ago because they did not have staying power. I switched over to Ray tubes and find them to be fantastic sounding and battleship build quality with a dealer network so you can return if there is an issue. 

Yes, I have had great experiences with Audio Research, Upscale Audio, and The Tube Store. I run around 50 tubes on my systems an they have been absolutely no trouble over the last ten years.  

It would be a real shame to turn anyone off of tubes because of a bad vendor.  I mistakenly stayed away from tube amps for few decades longer than I should have because of the over emphasized focus on occasional reliability issues. 

I think the private online sellers of Psvane tubes are really the problem.  At least that’s been my experience.  Buying direct from the Psvane online service center has not been a problem.  Again, that’s a least been my current experience.

I gave up on tube sellers. I never got what I was told I was buying. 

I have gone to Audio research for their "overpriced" matched sets (and they are painfully expensive) but each purchase was fully matched, tested, worked flawlessly and I was assured money back or replacement (entire) set if i was not satisfied. Yes it's painful. Yes it's worth it considering all the junk out there posing as NOS and matched. 

@tuberist 

Aren't Ray tubes just relabelled Psvane or other manufacturer like TAD and Groove Tubes do?

Although I expect they are tested and selected for the best of the bunch.

Stick with nos from reputable dealers.

Ignorance is bliss. Sort of glad I don't have a tester, as I think there would be much anger within me from seeing the results.

Their customer service is literally pathetic. I'll never buy from them.

Thanks for the heads-up.

@thecarpathian - I've bought NOS from a very reputable dealer and when I put then in and turned them on, it sounded like gunshots, and I turned the amp off in a hurry. Sent them back, got another pair of the same kind, same thing happened, and I just got a refund. 

On the other hand, I've got Ray Reserve 6SN7's and put them in the same amp and no problems at all. 

I like NOS tubes as well, and have a number of them, but it's a bit inaccurate to imply that there would be no problems with them while avoiding fully tested and matched tubes like Ray Reserve. 

@marco1 +1 "private online sellers of …. tubes are really the problem."

I have good +++ experience buying tubes from https://peavey.com/product-category/accessories/misc/tubes/

I had issue w/ one tube of bunch short, and Peavey sales sent me new good tube immediately! 

Isn’t it the same golden-ears who routinely experience stunning improvements from rhodium fuses and $1000 Ethernet patch cables who also presumably run grossly out-of-spec tubes in their gear, yet notice nothing?

"I paid $1000 for a pair of EL84! They must be the best EL84s in the world! You get what you pay for!"

Indeed you do.

@thecarpathian 

I agree with your assessment of shopping with a reputable dealer... but NOS tend to be a world of deception. Emphasis must be on the reputable dealer. That I agree. 

Which Maxi did you use to test 2A3s?

I have a Maxi power tube tester with a regulated power supply. I am forced to test all the tubes which I am trying to match at the same time due to variations in test results which can occur if the same tubes are tested days apart. 

I calibrated 2 Hickok 539Cs and after both were properly calibrated the test results of the testers routinely varied by up to 12%. To make matter worse each tester can be idiosyncratic as to which tubes it tests higher than normal and also lower.  

So the 65 and 43 ma results are meaningless unless you know details of the testing particulars of each tester. It is possible that you could vary up to 10 ma from Maxi to Maxi.

It is a serious mistake to abandon tube gear due to the actions of a few bad actors. 

Here is the PSVANE 2A3C data that I found:- (I believe it is quite different from the previous post).  Anyway, some tolerance will happen but it is more important both tubes are matched with the same reading.

DC Parameters
Ua………………………… 300 V
-Ug………………………… 45 V
Ia………………………… 60 mA
Gm………………………… 5.25 mA/V
ri………………………… 0.8 k
u………………………… 4.2
Pout…………………………3.5 W

@calieng  to @tuberist Aren't Ray tubes just relabelled Psvane or other manufacturer like TAD and Groove Tubes do?

Although I expect they are tested and selected for the best of the bunch.

Exactly.  While Ray Tubes may not want people knowing this and PSVANE is not advertising this, however the idea is the better testing tubes with a different label, better packing, backing, support, is also what you are paying for - hopefully so.  

They've only been out a year or so, need more time to know if they are truly better or not.  Meanwhile I keep a few sets and spares of standard PSVANEs. Will know more in the next few years if the production runs since the pandemic are truly better or not.  

Reading this thread i almost regret the purchase of the very good low cost Douk T8 pro as  tubes pre-amp/E.Q.

It work well since almost a year now...

It improve the Edifier active speaker ...I use it as  tube pre-amp for the Fosi SK1 with my secondary headphone, the sextett ...

I vouch few years ago to never buy tubes again... I lied to myself or i forgote my promise...

Anyway the Douk cost peanuts and is very good for a low cost system...

My sound experience is more analog than digital....

@larsman ​​@ghdprentice ,

Ah, yes my friends, both valid points.

I broke my own rule by hastily posting.

I should have written: "In my experience" I’ve had nothing but good luck in years of buying exclusively nos tubes from reputable dealers.

Owned plenty of VTL, Manley and de Havilland tube gear.  Loved it all.  But in the end I tired of chasing tubes, the really expensive kind like 300B.  Gracefully left for solid state and did not look back.  Yes, yes, the romance and palpable feel of tubes. I get it, but morphed into a more dynamic immediate attack listener paired with active transducers.

Left one love for another.  No hard feelings from departure.  Best of luck.

@audition__audio 

Maximatcher II with 300B socket adapter. One tube at a time.

It supports 4 octal tubes at a time so I doubt I was taxing the power supply.

In any case even with a little voltage deviation the Psvane tested way too low. 

I ordered a Pro One Bias Probe from Eurotubes so once it arrives I will insert it between the tester and the socket adapter and get a verification on plate voltage and current from the tester. I have an older bias probe from WeberVST but it is acting up so did not want to try that one.

@devinplombier  

I'm sure if you measured the transistors in an amplifier you would find deviations in those as well. These tube testers are not that accurate like people think they are.  The best way to match or test the performance of a tube is in the circuit they will be used in. 

I think the company ripped you off. They apparently do not care about losing customers. I learned in retail many years ago. It's better to lose money on one customer and gain a reputation in an industry as giving top notch service. That one customer you lose money on will redeem when that customer comes back again. Not to mention free advertising with all that persons audiophile friends. Sorry for your bad vendor experience.

Not to beat a dead horse - but I was getting low on 12AX7s so I ordered some Mullard reproductions from Vivatubes. Given what has happened recently I decided to get 2 matched pairs of Psvane Horizon 12AX7 from Amazon to compare.

Vivatubes rated each matched 12AX7 in the 96.5 (plus or minus a couple tenths) for gain as marked by hand on the box. All results were unique.

Psvane were simply stated tubes as matched with no test results marked on the box.

RESULTS with MaxiPreAmp II:

Vivatubes average reading 97.5 (plus or minus a couple tenths) with either side of the tube within a couple tenths of each other. All exceeding the 92 target gain.

Psvane tubes ranged from 84.2 to 91.7 for gain. None met the 92 target. None were well matched for either side of the tube or for the pair in each box.

For what it is worth...Vivatubes appears honest and accurate (deviations due to different test equipment). Mullard reproductions are either much better made or much better QC than a competing brand.

I will thank Amazon in advance for their good customer service in accepting back the Psvane 12AX7s.

@calieng. Funny I had the exact opposite experience with some 6sn7’s purchased from Viva.  It’s been a while so I don’t remember how the test results were noted, but suffice it to say the tubes did not match.  Viva also took the tubes back without question. Moral to this story, test the tubes yourself no matter who you buy from, which really doesn’t speak too well to this part of our industry.