CD Got Absolutely Crushed By Vinyl
chakster @chakster Well then, in your own words "physically riding", shortened to "ride" for the purpose of this post..... The Litz ............rides the tonearm/cart. The tonearm ....rides the cartridge and TT/Shelf. The cartridge... rides the record. The record .......rides the platter/TT The TT .............rides the shelf. A lot of riding going on. |
@ct0517 A lot of riding going on. But only cartridge and its diamond rides in the groove where the music is, so only diamond touch the groove walls. If you have some problem right there you can not fix it anywhere else, no matter how well treated your room or how good is your tonearm and phonostage, turntable, cables and speakers. Your cartridge is the first and most important component in agalog chain. |
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Sleepwalker - I was describing a way to drown out treadmill noise with a beat. It was not a post about sound quality. I got a warning and the post was deleted by the mods due to the R* reference. ok Mod. Chakster my words to you also got deleted with that post, but they are IMO important so I will summarize. The music is made from two parts of the record. One the grooves and the other side, the record itself which sits on the platter and the TT platter turns at the correct speed. The two functions are separate from one another, but of equal importance. You can't have one without the other and still be able to enjoy your records. |
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£20k of CD player to listen to the rubbish like the Daft Punk ? Daft Punk’s "Random Access Memories" was recorded to tape using almost entirely 70s studio gear. That was why the album cost the million dollars it did as these guys were buying up and rebuilding 70s gear to allow them to make an analogue recording. There is very little EQ used in the mix, no plug-ins...it is a wonderful recording. Check this article out to read the great lengths they went to to create an authentic 70s sounding recording: https://www.soundonsound.com/people/recording-random-access-memories-daft-punk ...and it is a fabulous album. Check out the last track ’Contact’ for an epic 21st century prog sounding finale. Or ’Touch’ for a masterpiece of light and shade: a choral wonder. Or ’Georgio by Moroder’ for some of the best drumming you will ever hear as it reaches its climax. Re my vinyl vs cd comparison: we mainly compared 70s material as you suggest; original Dark Side Of The Moon LP with first edition straight CD transfer (original CD masters were usually a simple trtransfer from the master tapes) and also compared to the James Guthrie 2011 remaster. I preferred the Guthrie remaster, my friend preferred the LP, but the differences were not massive = testament to Guthrie’s remastering skills. We compared a 70s Rush album, Carole King and more. CD would lose badly only when a version with brickwalled remastering was compared to original 70s vinyl. Well remastered CD or first edition CD was very close with myself usually preferring CD, my friend vinyl. |
Sleep walker 65 , your digital is so poor , no wonder it is not close to your turntable, try investing $5k in a aluminum player,or antipode, Aurender but first alll your music library needs to be ripped to a shard drive then your digital will take on yet another level like myself I use only Solid state drives,night and day faster ,no mechanical switching and a better medium . and dsd recordings may or may not even become main stream. hd tracks and other down loads give you hires recordings. A 24/96 bit recording is the standard for most quality recordings and 2 x more musical information then any record can provide 12 bits is all that is possible. You like records for they are richer .there are incredible digital products out there ,Vacuum Tube , and solid state. Start reading computer Audiophile. Your are driving a Kia for digital and untill you get into something on a much higher level you will never know. Go to a quality Audio store and sit down and listen . For you to evening of your cables for analog to be Beldon is way down on the audio quality list. Heldon make a great Ethernet cable, thats it . Myself modify all my gear for stock equipment unless $$ high end internally is all builtto a price point .for the record, no pun intended less then 25% of the cost of a item actually goes into the product, the rest R&D overhead and markup. That is why you put much better wiring , upgrade speaker Xovers and internal resistor capacitors power supplies. Even your record player is far from the top. Yes ur quality is = to maybe a $3k system at best . Strat getting out more to the Audio stores. What is the rest of yoursystem ,Speakers, electronics,and cables ? This too tells a lot about the weakest link in the chain. this is one hobby that being frugal will expose many short coming . tome to start spending $$ to get with the times. I owned a Audio store for years and seen people spend $50k on a system but would not spend even $2500 on cables ,even offering to lend them to compare. Afraid of spending more mentally csnt justify why a cable should be expensive. Check out all your options. |
@duckworp
Daft Punk’s "Random Access Memories" was recorded to tape using almost entirely 70s studio gear. That was why the album cost the million dollars it did as these guys were buying up and rebuilding 70s gear to allow them to make an analogue recording. There is very little EQ used in the mix, no plug-ins...it is a wonderful recording. Check this article out to read the great lengths they went to to create an authentic 70s sounding recording: https://www.soundonsound.com/people/recording-random-access-memories-daft-punk...and it is a fabulous album. Check out the last track ’Contact’ for an epic 21st century prog sounding finale. Or ’Touch’ for a masterpiece of light and shade: a choral wonder. Or ’Georgio by Moroder’ for some of the best drumming you will ever hear as it reaches its climax. Well, they're definitely show up some progress if it was recorded in analog (you're right), but i remember the band from their 1st album and never liked it. I still don't like their music, but respect the old musicians they are invited. Anyway it's about personal taste, sorry. The original records from the 70s are much more interesting, i don't listen to pop music. |
Hello Sleepwalker 65 ,the gibberish is a fact , even though it is a different format the max for a record is just over 12 bits . just look up what a bit is , educate yourself . your system is Waay outdated. You are still back in the stone age as far as Audio capabilities.yes sometimes the truth can be painful. go to Any quality store and you will see, maybe for the first time your $500 CD player is as basic as it gets You get what you pay for !! |
Dear @sleepwalker65 : I can't agree with you but I hope you can agree with this. Please read it with an " open mind " and for a " minute " forgeret about LPs and forgeret of what you are accustomed to listen in your room/system: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/turntable-got-absolutely-crushed-by-cd/post?postid=1684132#16... I like both formats. R. |
Everything DIGITAL gets outdated pretty fast, the software, the gear, the source ... everything. Just like the computers, smart phones. You can throw them away in a few years. The Analog is the opposite story. 40-50 years old records are still icredible, vintage cartridges still amazing, old turntables still superior, reel to reel still rocks. Analog studios for musicians still the best. Who cares about digital if we have all these analog gear and music collection in analog format? This is a true heritage! For a person who’s got a decent collection of vinyl and nice high-end equipment your digital fairy tales is nothing. And we don’t have to be open minded to realize this or that fact about digital bitrate, it’s obvious that many people don’t need it at all. Serious music collection is not a collection of files, exactly like the art collection (it’s all about original, not a digital copy). People looking for something "real" and authentic in this digital world, because your digital is nothing, it’s on the cloud streaming, it’s free, it can be copied, it has no value, your entire "collection" of digital music can be on your iphone or on one flash card. It has no background history like any phisical media formats, especially vintage records. Digital is good for education, for the quick access to the information, but please stop comparing a music collection in digital formats to an analog music collection. A good record collection is a pure gold, digital collection is nothing but a free bonus that everyone can copy pretty quick. I’m getting sick of all that digital, i would rather go and buy more vintage records |
Digital ever since the very beginning in terms of playback has had serious issues, it’s not really the CD per se that’s the problem. You just can’t hear it properly, that’s all. Some problems of have been figured out and solved, like isolation, others not so much. And there has been a boatload of patches that have helped. Some problems are not even known, and that can make the going pretty rough. What can I tell you? A pig wearing lipstick 💋 is still a pig 🐷 |
@audioman58 yes sometimes the truth can be painful. You should not be so easily shaken. A CD player can be had for as little as $100 if your standards aren’t too high. A $500 CD player really doesn’t have much better sound quality, and neither does a $1500 or $3000 CD Player. All you get for that exorbitant price is a little better build quality. As others said, digital is only an imitation, analog is the real and lasting thing. |
The Real Reason Some People Prefer Analog To Digital
There’s a problem that has been ignored by the entire music industry which I believe is really important for music-lovers that I think you my want to investigate. Approximately 35 years ago when digital media was introduced to the music consuming public as a media with “Perfect Sound Forever” the music industry made a huge screw up when it got the playback polarity of digital music on CDs and later DVDs, etc. in reversed (inverted polarity). On a purely random basis that means that digital media and files are heard in the wrong polarity approximately 85% of the time and either 92% wrong or correct when audio systems are set to a fixed playback polarity.
The result is that the music played in inverted polarity sounds harsh and two-dimensional. And that’s probably the major reason that some music-lovers still believe (without knowing the real reason) that analog sounds better than digital. Analog media plays in the correct polarity over 99.9% of the time but also sounds bad if played in inverted polarity. It’s difficult if not impossible to make meaningful comparisons of the fidelity and musicality of media and audio components when they aren’t playing in absolute polarity. The better the playback system the easier it is to hear the differences in polarity. Confusion over polarity may cause music-lovers to expend needless time and money trying to smooth out the irritating and flat sound of digital media when the real problem is music played in inverted polarity.
This should be an object lesson on how an entire industry with its experts and electrical engineers can get it wrong and not do anything about if for over 35 years and counting! So it should be an object lesson that the entire industry that creates recorded music and is based upon scientific principles continues to mostly get polarity wrong.
I've written two monographs that go into great detail about the problem at: http://www.AbsolutePolarity.com andhttp://www.PolarityGeorge.com. If you or anyone you know might be interested in developing ThePerfect Polarizer™ that will detect and correct polarity in real-time, then please forward this email to them/encourage them to contact me, because I believe it could be accomplished with AI/App. Now, do you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution?”
Respectfully submitted,
George S. Louis, Esq., CEO Digital Systems & Solutions President San Diego Audio Society (SDAS) Website: www.AudioGeorge.com Email: [email protected] Phone: 619-401-9876
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I have been very much into both CD and LP for a long time. I can comfortably say my Clearaudio Master Reference turntable (with Koetsu Onyx long body on Thales Simplicity II) sounded better than my Burmester 089 CDP (on 011 pre and 911mk3 amp) in most situations (meaning both on hifi recordings). I know it is an Apple to Orange thing, but in general I would agree with the OP. Just my 2 cents. |
“A CD player can be had for as little as $100 if your standards aren’t too high. A $500 CD player really doesn’t have much better sound quality, and neither does a $1500 or $3000 CD Player. All you get for that exorbitant price is a little better build quality. As others said, digital is only an imitation, analog is the real and lasting thing“ The OP has preconceived notions about digital playback....nothing we say or suggest otherwise would change his opinion. |
I disagree. Some albums sound better than CDs and some CDs sound better than albums. Depending on mastering of both. When I do A-B comparisons of the same album there are advantages and disadvantages to both. I love vinyl, but it's still so much easier to place a CD and listen for up to 75 minutes without have to get up and flip a side. |
If the usability is the main reason people use CDs then digital files is far more superior, because you can listen forever and make playlist with the tracks you want to hear ignoring all the "bad" songs on the album you prefer to skip. For the same reason lazy people just listening to the streming radio stations. For most of those people music is just a background in the headphones while in the subway or in the bus etc. Passionate collectors would love to put the record on the turntable and put the needle on the record for serious listening session. Vinyl is a whole different experience, different habit, different world. CD is retired format of digital media, let’s face it |
I’m a diehard vinyl fan, with thousands of records. I never really put much effort into CDs. Did appreciate the convenience of them, but didn’t really love the sterilizing. However, when I hooked up my Oppo to my tube system (mac 275, mac 2200, Harbeth SHL5s) suddenly my CDs sounded pretty goddamned good. Something about the tubes that take the edge of the CDs, in my experience. And SACDs are pretty mind blowing. |
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Clearly, the OP and many others in this (and the zillion identical) threads, conflate *preference* with *fact*. Both mediums can sound great, with recording and mastering having the greatest impact IME. In the end, though, when *you* think the vinyl kills the CD and I think the reverse, in the same listening session, *neither* of us is wrong. Get over it. |
It all depends. In my library listening room I have 6 systems with 9 pairs of speakers, four cd players, 2 DACs, two turntables and more cartridges than I can count. I listen to classical, jazz and rock. With each type of music I could convince you one way or the other with the same amplification and speaker system depending on the player, DAC or turntable/cartridge combination. I can play a new to me LP and almost immediately know whether it will sound better with different preamp/amp including tube vs. ss. Just experienced this last night. Same orchestra and era. Lush symphonic piece amazing on a tube system followed by powerful piano concerto sounding like crap in comparison. Switched the amp setup. Another experience entirely. I have many of the same recordings on lp and red label. It’s often a hard choice which way to go. There is no answer, obviously. At least to me. |
@khughes In the end, though, when *you* think the vinyl kills the CD and I think the reverse, in the same listening session, *neither* of us is wrong. Get over it. Really? “Get over it”? Really? Now isnt isn’t that a conflicting picture you paint of yourself against the opinions of others? If you truly believed what you say, you’d not be threatened by this thread. |
Dear @sleepwalker65; """
digital is only an imitation, analog is the real and lasting thing. """ Really? how did you arrived to that no sense statement or where did you experienced that? where? Where are your facts, the true and real foundation for that statement. Did you understand what @mikelavigne posted?, seems to me that you did not. I followed @mikelavigne just from I started in Agon when I were looking for " fantastic " room audio systems and let me tell you that in Agon and in other internet forums exist several way more expensive systems that the one Mike owns. The main difference why I always " listen " when he speaks is that almost all the other truly truly expensive systems are more hardware lovers than true MUSIC Lovers and @mikelavigne belongs to these ones. It's not only about money but self knowledge levels. He is a MUSIC lover no mtters the media source and he is wise enough to listen and likes the digital alternative too. IMHO, this is the kind of gentlemans where we all always have something to learn if we are willing to learn but it looks you are not and like to follow people with very low udio/music knowledge levels. Good for you because you live hppy with and this is for you what it matters. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Clearly, the OP and many others in this (and the zillion identical) threads, conflate *preference* with *fact*. This is what so often happens in the audiophile world. Someone has a subjective reaction or perception and then this becomes in their mind an objective fact from which to base some new theory. So you get some audiophiles saying "Digital is cold, sterile, it's incapable of producing MUSIC and emotional involvement. So here's my theory for why digital just can't produce music in a satisfying manner..." And meanwhile most of the world, including probably a majority of audiophiles, have been enjoying digital music for ages. "Huh? Digital sounds awful and can't transmit the emotion of music? Speak for yourself; we've been deeply connected and loving music delivered digitally for a long time." (Whether the OP meant to speak only for himself, or if he meant the broad condemnation of digital sound his post seemed to make, is up to him to clear up if he wishes). |
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interesting that people like bob Ludwig said he received masters mostly on tape, to the tune of 85%, approximately. Digital can be good, I make no case for either. Just that.... no, it does not come in as digital and is then pressed into vynil. Yes, it happens all the time but no, it is not the norm when making records, not by a long shot. |
