STREAMING IS ABSOLUTELY GOD AWFUL SOUNDING


Just started steaming and I can say it will be relegated to a bedroom system. Anyone using this as their main source is in big trouble. VINYL AND COMPACT DISC sound by far, much better. 
jeffvegas
Finally, an opinion that runs counter to the prevailing trend.
Good on you. 👍

All the best,
Nonoise
More details- what is the make and model # of the streamer and DAC being used?
VINYL AND COMPACT DISC sound by far, much better.
Especially when they shout at you. 

That’s the problem guy states his opinion and then gets jumped.

streaming is lowest form. I have a 4000.00 DAC/DSD and would rather listen to my Thorens spinning albums that streaming bits.
You shouting that cracked me up, nothing wrong expressing yourself.  I like both but prefer my turntable. I have a delta sigma and r2r dac. I don't think streaming is that bad. I have a Exemplar Audio modded oppo 105 tube CD player that I love, better love it cost me $5000. I have to say my streamer sounds better using quobuz and tidal than my CD player. Something must be wrong with your streaming gear or your CD player is a lot better than mine. I love having access to all this new music. The r2r dac sounds great with small acoustic jazz, blues and less complex music to my ears, both of my dacs have there place with certain types of music. I like my table but sure is a pain flipping and cleaning records and needle. I like running things off iPad or phone, it's making me lazy and spoiled.
In one of audio reviewer John Darko’s latest videos he states that for the last 5 weeks all he’s been listening to are CDs. He’s evaluated tons of streamers, streaming services, and all the ancillary gear needed to do so and I think he implied he wanted to get back to good sound when evaluating new gear like the RME-ADI-2 DAC.

All the best,
Nonoise
What are you using to stream? Using an Auralic Aries Mini and an Audio Note Dac here and it sounds fantastic.


John Darko’s latest videos he states that for the last 5 weeks all he’s been listening to are CDs.


Think this is the one you mean.
https://youtu.be/vgmzh77KMCU
Just remember this "op" is a total troll. Me makes up contentious statements, he makes up what his system is, and then he starts argument and calls people names. You are falling for the troll ...  All these posts are over a relatively short period of time. 



Stumbled across a pair of these beasts at a used stereo store. I can get them for 3 grand. The loudspeakers are probably 30 years old. Would you goners grab these for 3 grand or get something new for 3 grand. What new would you recommend for 3 grand?
jeffvegas

WOULD IT BE DUMB TO BUY A MARK LEVINSON NO 23.5

This amp is probably 30 years old. There is one I can grab for 2500 bucks. Good buy? Too old? What do you goners think?


Can you put a Krell in an apartment?

As you see I am a total "goner" living in a cheap apartment with about 50 grand in Audiophile equipment. I am looking at purchasing an old krell "FPB 400 CX" amp that the manufacturer says needs a dedicated 20 amp line. Can you still run this amp off a regular electrical outlet? If you can, will it sound like crap? jeffvegas


Rega planar 3 or Project X2? Which is the better turntable?

looking at the Rega planar 3 and Project X2. Which do you goners think is a better turntable?
jeffvegas06-17-2020 9:50pm Report this

Creek CD50

What do you "goners" think about this product. I am an audiophile on a strict budget. This unit apparently plays CD's, is a preamp, has a DAC so you can stream as well. Any experiences with this product? Came across one used for 700 bucks. Should I make a move on it? jeffvegas

“Just started streaming and I can say it will be relegated to a bedroom system”.

Don’t do that, the god awful sound from your streamer will cause unhealthy sleep patterns. 😂
audio2design unlike you, I have been making huge upgrades to my system. Not making anything up, and all the gear mentioned before in Audiogon posts has made its way through my listening room. Currently have my Krell FPB 400CX up for sale on Audiogon soon to be replaced by a PASS LABS X 350.5 or newer Krell. As a matter of fact, I’ll post a pic of my system in the Audiogon ad for my Krell. There you will see the VPI CLASSIC TURNTABLE, AUDIO RESEARCH PHONO PREAMP, WADIA 321 DAC, AUDIOLAB 6000CDT TRANSPORT, BLUESOUND NODE2i, AYRE K5XEMP PREAMP, KRELL FPB 400CX AMP AND TEKTON ENZO XL’S WITH 7 TWEETER ARRAY. 
Post removed 
I am shocked, shocked, to hear that streaming sucks.

Most
Ridiculous post do you think a node is the pinacle of streaming? It is a great 500 stteamer but you get what you pay for
We have some of the worlds Best dacs and streamers on display and when done right a good server feeding a dac or a really amazing dac streamer like a lumin x1 will sound better than a cd player

The quality of the sound has a lot to do with how you stream a state of rhe art streamer can radically improve your sound

We specialize in streaming

Our new 432Evo servers produce a very analog like sound with a good dac

https://youtu.be/m_sYbgFvUg

"Hi-Fi Choice Recommended Components Award - 432 EVO AEON - 432 EVO Music Servers | High End Digital Audio Streaming" https://432evo.be/index.php/2020/05/22/hi-fi-choice-recommended-components-award-432-evo-aeon-ed-sel...


Dave and troy
Audio intellect nj


So, you have a nice system and are continuing to upgrade components. But you bought a Bluesound Node2i and decided to stop there? Thousands of dollars invested in an audio system and a $500 Node is how you judge the quality of streaming?


Agree that the Node is the weak link in this guys system.  Although it isn't total dogma, either...
@audio2design is right. This guy is a total troll. I have seen some obnoxious things said on this site but @jeffvegas makes MC look like a rookie in insults.
Well, I thought I was missing something because my CD's ripped onto hard drive using J River sound better that on line streaming.
Now, granted, I am not using a stand alone streamer. I am simply using my PC streaming Amazon Music to my Audio Mirror Tubadour III DAC.
I had been considering purchasing a streamer, but after viewing John Darko's You Tube Vid I can't talk myself into making the investment.
Well, yes the $500 streamer you have is not giving you what streaming is capable of. That simple. It takes care and attention to the details to get the most out of streaming. I know what the Node sounds like and it is no match against a top performing server from many companies. Ethernet, usb and all other digital cables in use also matter. Units like the English Electric and Uptone Audio EtherRegen switches/reclocker also matter. Do you have an LPS on your router/modem? That matters.

One can’t just pluck down a $500 streamer and say streaming sounds awful. You would also come to the same conclusion with LP or CD playback if approached in the same manner. Please slow down and think this through while educating yourself on the topic.
Post removed 
Not true, the high end store I bought it from sells lumin and aurender.  They said dont bother. They actually fake out clients in AB comparisons with the node against them. My DAC, the WADIA 321 is not a poor DAC, adding a 6000 streamer won't revolutionize the sound. Digital sucks and in my opinion has regressed as my 20 year old LINN IKEMI cd player sounds better. I just laugh now when "audiophiles" boast how their DSD download or compressed TIDAL MASTER sounds superior.  I say go have ear surgery that there is something wrong with their hearing. I will throw a one step Mobil fidelity original master on my VPI and smoke ANY digital out there. 
I’m not convinced this poster is sincere when he posts but I will keep an open mind. No time to spend trying to help people who are just here to make noise.

If you can't get very good sound out of a "good" system built around any good quality modern streamer and external DAC then the question becomes define good sound and how do you know it even when you hear it?

Anything can be made better only a question of how much better and how much it costs and whether or why one cares.

What is the reference sound in this case that the streamer is failing to match or exceed?   In what ways?
“No time to spend trying to help people who are just here to make noise.”

well said @mapman.

“Not true, the high end store I bought it from sells lumin and aurender. They said dont bother.”

I give props to the salesman at high end store...he was smart enough to know selling lumin and aurender to OP wouldn’t make good business sense as one of those would have landed back in his store. The OP probably walked in with same rotten attitude on display here.  
Had me at "Bluesound Node" 

This thread should come with warning to have towel to wipe coffee off your screen.  

And if same dealer said don’t waste your $ on the VPI turntable this Crosly is just as good? What a load of cr@p.
@grannyring
Well, yes the $500 streamer you have is not giving you what streaming is capable of. That simple. It takes care and attention to the details to get the most out of streaming. I know what the Node sounds like and it is no match against a top performing server from many companies.


+1, what grannyring said - Agree.
OP, If a stock Node2 or 2i is being used, and with no other exploration into really good R-2R Ladder DACs (at least), it will not sound like vinyl or even a good CD player with a good dac implementation inside. Several friends and colleagues with Node units too, and every single one of them is using a good external r2r dac.  Sounds nice.

If a so called high-end dealer who sells Lumin and Aurender said that to you..., well, wish them the best of luck on their future and the manufactures they sell DACs for. It may be time to go look for another dealer to gain insight on other ideas and approaches. You have not even began to touch the surface yet of what it can really sound like. Good Luck.
The OP is not serious and the thread should end. 
FWIW I still use old Squeezebox Touch to external DAC as my streamer. I find the sound very hard to fault. Is that better than a Bluesound? What other newer streamers are comparable?

It’s that for a reference that makes me think the op is not serious when he calls streaming god awful. That’s like saying Charleze Theron isn’t a lovely lady.

I've heard BLuesound at dealers in pretty good systems and the sound was perfectly fine as I recall.


Thanks.
"Just started steaming and I can say it will be relegated to a bedroom system."

Try it with the beef ham (NOT THE PORK HAM).

DeKay
Yeah well a lot of people here will be missing out on Charlize Theron and still be dating Grace Kelly 60 years later.
Bottom line,  I wouldn't call anyone who uses streaming as their main source an Audiophile or recommend anyone buys loudspeakers above anything sold at Best Buy. The Compact Disc, SACD and good ole Vinyl are king!!!!  Long live physical media and record stores!!! oh and Grace Kelly vs Charlize Theron? Come on!! Grace Kelly smokes Charlize. 
Ah, Grace Kelly. Loved her affected style of speaking while acting. I could listen to her all day long and all would be well in the world.

That, and what a classically beautiful face.

All the best,
Nonoise
Ok no problem. To each their own.

I know somebody actually dating Grace Kelly. Might be engaged soon. No joke! So there!

I’ll stick with my wife. Got a picture of her doing her bond girl thing in the water. Smokes Ursula Andress!
Here's the million $$$ question:

Why do men love beautiful women and ugly speakers?

Inquiring minds want to know.
"Well, yes the $500 streamer you have is not giving you what streaming is capable of."
Ah yes but Darko did not use a $500 streamer in the A/B, he used a $3,000 streamer.
https://youtu.be/vgmzh77KMCU

I too have yet to hear any priced streamer compete with good CD transport/dac

Cheers George
COMPACT DISC SMOKES STREAMING!! I believe the compact disc will have a resurgence among Audiophiles just like Vinyl has. 
MQA?! What a joke. So let's compress music, call it a master recording, license it to make money all to bring lower fidelity sound to high end audio? I laugh at all you streamers out there. Go ahead and drink the Koolade. 

jeffvegas OP
200 posts01-08-2021 2:15pmCOMPACT DISC SMOKES STREAMING!! I believe the compact disc will have a resurgence among Audiophiles just like Vinyl has.

This is by far a big stretch. Are you saying ANY cd player smokes ANY streamer? A GOOD streamer would smoke a BAD cd player any time of the day. And vice versa.

You get what you pay for with both
Grace Kelly died a long time ago.

jeffvegas it's fine that you don't like streaming, but why get hysterical about it?
Too bad for your bad experience.
I do not care 
Either CD or streaming can be better if either is done right and the other less so.

Thing is the technology needed to stream accurately is mature and not very expensive to implement well. Also more reliable over time than reading optical disks in real time. It’s been that way for a number of years now. Streaming devices will mostly just become more common and less expensive on average overall over time. Of course audiophiles will skew that towards being more expensive still because otherwise audiophiles lose bragging rights and high end vendors the ability to sell expensive devices, but the overall affect of that is minimal overall. Just follow the technology trends.

Take your pick. But why one would choose CDs done right to streaming done right is beyond me. Streaming has all the other features and benefits. Records can compete because those make for a nice product to own, touch, and play with due to the larger physical format. CDs have no advantage other than they might be bought cheap these days and ripped for streaming. They are being squeezed out in the middle by the other two.



GOOD streamer would smoke a BAD cd player any time of the day.

Not really, as a streamer will still only have the later re-issues (which are mostly compressed) to stream, where a good sounding cheap CD player still has the option of playing non compressed earlier issues of the same thing.
Just go to the Dynamic Range Data Base website and see for yourself.
Cheers George
Not really, as a streamer will still only have the later re-issues (which are mostly compressed) to stream, where a good sounding cheap CD player still has the option of playing non compressed earlier issues of the same thing.
Just go to the Dynamic Range Data Base website and see for yourself.
Cheers George
I think that's the real issue. It's what's being streamed, not the technical issues of streaming itself. If you have Papa Doo Run Run's California Project on Telarc CD listen to that and then compare it to the rip on Youtube. The guy who posted it swears he didn't do any manipulating of the sound but something crazy obviously happened when he uploaded it to Youtube. It's way beyond a little loss of fidelity due to mp3 compression.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFa8O6x1L3A&list=PL0YXzShndqL8zOn62swq1Z_BegqihG8zI&index=7
My streaming set up surpassed spinning CDs on a PS Audio memory player. When this happened I went whole hog into streaming. Best thing I ever did for my music enjoyment. I listen to so much new music/new artists now. Artists I would not even know about previously. Streaming opens up a great big world of new music at my fingertips! We are so lucky as music lovers to have this technology. 

My streaming front end is,

Modified Innuos Zenith 3
Mojo Audio Evo dac near maxed out
SOTM & SABLON ethernet cables
LPS powered modem
English Electric 8 switch
Uptone Audio EtherRegen
DIY usb cable that is the best I have heard

Yes, this set up is on par with a good CD transport. This based on my actual listening.
Anyone here think all that high def 4K video streamed into your homes compares with what you can get out of your blu ray player (along with the audio portion) ?

Every, single movie I've watched looked and sounded worse, by a large margin, to what my simple OPPO does.

All the best,
Nonoise
Back on topic,

Darko loves his streaming rig more than his vinyl! His words in a review of a network switch. A quote from
him here says it all! In this review he determined adding the audiophile switch helped the sonics of his streaming front end which he already loved. I agree! 

“Let’s be clear: the Innuos Zenith SE MKII is a spectacular sounding streamer. Tonally rich with a wonderful sense of ease that we just don’t get from entry-level streamers. The Aqua La Scala MKII Optologic is also one of the finest, most satisfying DACs available below US$10K.

Together the Innuos and the Aqua form a high-end digital audio powerhouse that aces anything I hear from my vinyl rig – a Technics SL-1200G w/ Ortofon 2M Black or PS Audio or Wyred 4 Sound phono stage – and would have many asking, “How can it get any better than this?”







Streaming music even high res is much less technically difficult than streaming high res video (with audio).
At CD resolution streaming music is a piece of cake. Most dacs these days will even deal with the jitter that can arise from connections. Jitter control/rejection is key.
I can’t comment on higher res than cd streaming. I am good with that still currently even compared to vinyl and have not dabbled with higher res audio. That is correspondingly more challenging.

So you see I can be relatively easily satisfied compared to some. I see greatly diminished return or even any of value beyond where I am which is very good place to be. I am ECD with sound but perhaps not as much as some. My sound is already miles beyond anything I’ve had prior over about 40+ years of sonic obsession and in the same league as the best I ever hear these days. 
Take your pick. But why one would choose CDs done right to streaming done right is beyond me.
Don't under sell the benefits of private property and owning content. There are voices against private property that have become louder, if not less fringe. And this extends to the digital music domain and the legal limits of what we can do with music copies that we own.

The CD on my shelf is mine, at least for now. Music and artists that I value I put in my personal collection, even if I sometimes choose to stream the same content due to convenience or (less so) quality.