Finally, an opinion that runs counter to the prevailing trend.
Good on you. 👍
All the best,
Nonoise
Good on you. 👍
All the best,
Nonoise
163 responses Add your response
You shouting that cracked me up, nothing wrong expressing yourself. I like both but prefer my turntable. I have a delta sigma and r2r dac. I don't think streaming is that bad. I have a Exemplar Audio modded oppo 105 tube CD player that I love, better love it cost me $5000. I have to say my streamer sounds better using quobuz and tidal than my CD player. Something must be wrong with your streaming gear or your CD player is a lot better than mine. I love having access to all this new music. The r2r dac sounds great with small acoustic jazz, blues and less complex music to my ears, both of my dacs have there place with certain types of music. I like my table but sure is a pain flipping and cleaning records and needle. I like running things off iPad or phone, it's making me lazy and spoiled. |
In one of audio reviewer John Darko’s latest videos he states that for the last 5 weeks all he’s been listening to are CDs. He’s evaluated tons of streamers, streaming services, and all the ancillary gear needed to do so and I think he implied he wanted to get back to good sound when evaluating new gear like the RME-ADI-2 DAC. All the best, Nonoise |
Think this is the one you mean. https://youtu.be/vgmzh77KMCU |
Just remember this "op" is a total troll. Me makes up contentious statements, he makes up what his system is, and then he starts argument and calls people names. You are falling for the troll ... All these posts are over a relatively short period of time. Stumbled across a pair of these beasts at a used stereo store. I can get them for 3 grand. The loudspeakers are probably 30 years old. Would you goners grab these for 3 grand or get something new for 3 grand. What new would you recommend for 3 grand?
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audio2design unlike you, I have been making huge upgrades to my system. Not making anything up, and all the gear mentioned before in Audiogon posts has made its way through my listening room. Currently have my Krell FPB 400CX up for sale on Audiogon soon to be replaced by a PASS LABS X 350.5 or newer Krell. As a matter of fact, I’ll post a pic of my system in the Audiogon ad for my Krell. There you will see the VPI CLASSIC TURNTABLE, AUDIO RESEARCH PHONO PREAMP, WADIA 321 DAC, AUDIOLAB 6000CDT TRANSPORT, BLUESOUND NODE2i, AYRE K5XEMP PREAMP, KRELL FPB 400CX AMP AND TEKTON ENZO XL’S WITH 7 TWEETER ARRAY. |
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Most Ridiculous post do you think a node is the pinacle of streaming? It is a great 500 stteamer but you get what you pay for We have some of the worlds Best dacs and streamers on display and when done right a good server feeding a dac or a really amazing dac streamer like a lumin x1 will sound better than a cd player The quality of the sound has a lot to do with how you stream a state of rhe art streamer can radically improve your sound We specialize in streaming Our new 432Evo servers produce a very analog like sound with a good dac https://youtu.be/m_sYbgFvUg "Hi-Fi Choice Recommended Components Award - 432 EVO AEON - 432 EVO Music Servers | High End Digital Audio Streaming" https://432evo.be/index.php/2020/05/22/hi-fi-choice-recommended-components-award-432-evo-aeon-ed-sel... Dave and troy Audio intellect nj |
Well, I thought I was missing something because my CD's ripped onto hard drive using J River sound better that on line streaming. Now, granted, I am not using a stand alone streamer. I am simply using my PC streaming Amazon Music to my Audio Mirror Tubadour III DAC. I had been considering purchasing a streamer, but after viewing John Darko's You Tube Vid I can't talk myself into making the investment. |
Well, yes the $500 streamer you have is not giving you what streaming is capable of. That simple. It takes care and attention to the details to get the most out of streaming. I know what the Node sounds like and it is no match against a top performing server from many companies. Ethernet, usb and all other digital cables in use also matter. Units like the English Electric and Uptone Audio EtherRegen switches/reclocker also matter. Do you have an LPS on your router/modem? That matters. One can’t just pluck down a $500 streamer and say streaming sounds awful. You would also come to the same conclusion with LP or CD playback if approached in the same manner. Please slow down and think this through while educating yourself on the topic. |
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Not true, the high end store I bought it from sells lumin and aurender. They said dont bother. They actually fake out clients in AB comparisons with the node against them. My DAC, the WADIA 321 is not a poor DAC, adding a 6000 streamer won't revolutionize the sound. Digital sucks and in my opinion has regressed as my 20 year old LINN IKEMI cd player sounds better. I just laugh now when "audiophiles" boast how their DSD download or compressed TIDAL MASTER sounds superior. I say go have ear surgery that there is something wrong with their hearing. I will throw a one step Mobil fidelity original master on my VPI and smoke ANY digital out there. |
I’m not convinced this poster is sincere when he posts but I will keep an open mind. No time to spend trying to help people who are just here to make noise. If you can't get very good sound out of a "good" system built around any good quality modern streamer and external DAC then the question becomes define good sound and how do you know it even when you hear it? Anything can be made better only a question of how much better and how much it costs and whether or why one cares. What is the reference sound in this case that the streamer is failing to match or exceed? In what ways? |
“No time to spend trying to help people who are just here to make noise.” well said @mapman. “Not true, the high end store I bought it from sells lumin and aurender. They said dont bother.” I give props to the salesman at high end store...he was smart enough to know selling lumin and aurender to OP wouldn’t make good business sense as one of those would have landed back in his store. The OP probably walked in with same rotten attitude on display here. |
@grannyring +1, what grannyring said - Agree. OP, If a stock Node2 or 2i is being used, and with no other exploration into really good R-2R Ladder DACs (at least), it will not sound like vinyl or even a good CD player with a good dac implementation inside. Several friends and colleagues with Node units too, and every single one of them is using a good external r2r dac. Sounds nice. If a so called high-end dealer who sells Lumin and Aurender said that to you..., well, wish them the best of luck on their future and the manufactures they sell DACs for. It may be time to go look for another dealer to gain insight on other ideas and approaches. You have not even began to touch the surface yet of what it can really sound like. Good Luck. |
FWIW I still use old Squeezebox Touch to external DAC as my streamer. I find the sound very hard to fault. Is that better than a Bluesound? What other newer streamers are comparable? It’s that for a reference that makes me think the op is not serious when he calls streaming god awful. That’s like saying Charleze Theron isn’t a lovely lady. I've heard BLuesound at dealers in pretty good systems and the sound was perfectly fine as I recall. Thanks. |
Bottom line, I wouldn't call anyone who uses streaming as their main source an Audiophile or recommend anyone buys loudspeakers above anything sold at Best Buy. The Compact Disc, SACD and good ole Vinyl are king!!!! Long live physical media and record stores!!! oh and Grace Kelly vs Charlize Theron? Come on!! Grace Kelly smokes Charlize. |
"Well, yes the $500 streamer you have is not giving you what streaming is capable of."Ah yes but Darko did not use a $500 streamer in the A/B, he used a $3,000 streamer. https://youtu.be/vgmzh77KMCU I too have yet to hear any priced streamer compete with good CD transport/dac Cheers George |
This is by far a big stretch. Are you saying ANY cd player smokes ANY streamer? A GOOD streamer would smoke a BAD cd player any time of the day. And vice versa. You get what you pay for with both |
Either CD or streaming can be better if either is done right and the other less so. Thing is the technology needed to stream accurately is mature and not very expensive to implement well. Also more reliable over time than reading optical disks in real time. It’s been that way for a number of years now. Streaming devices will mostly just become more common and less expensive on average overall over time. Of course audiophiles will skew that towards being more expensive still because otherwise audiophiles lose bragging rights and high end vendors the ability to sell expensive devices, but the overall affect of that is minimal overall. Just follow the technology trends. Take your pick. But why one would choose CDs done right to streaming done right is beyond me. Streaming has all the other features and benefits. Records can compete because those make for a nice product to own, touch, and play with due to the larger physical format. CDs have no advantage other than they might be bought cheap these days and ripped for streaming. They are being squeezed out in the middle by the other two. |
Not really, as a streamer will still only have the later re-issues (which are mostly compressed) to stream, where a good sounding cheap CD player still has the option of playing non compressed earlier issues of the same thing. Just go to the Dynamic Range Data Base website and see for yourself. Cheers George |
Not really, as a streamer will still only have the later re-issues (which are mostly compressed) to stream, where a good sounding cheap CD player still has the option of playing non compressed earlier issues of the same thing.I think that's the real issue. It's what's being streamed, not the technical issues of streaming itself. If you have Papa Doo Run Run's California Project on Telarc CD listen to that and then compare it to the rip on Youtube. The guy who posted it swears he didn't do any manipulating of the sound but something crazy obviously happened when he uploaded it to Youtube. It's way beyond a little loss of fidelity due to mp3 compression. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFa8O6x1L3A&list=PL0YXzShndqL8zOn62swq1Z_BegqihG8zI&index=7 |
My streaming set up surpassed spinning CDs on a PS Audio memory player. When this happened I went whole hog into streaming. Best thing I ever did for my music enjoyment. I listen to so much new music/new artists now. Artists I would not even know about previously. Streaming opens up a great big world of new music at my fingertips! We are so lucky as music lovers to have this technology. My streaming front end is, Modified Innuos Zenith 3 Mojo Audio Evo dac near maxed out SOTM & SABLON ethernet cables LPS powered modem English Electric 8 switch Uptone Audio EtherRegen DIY usb cable that is the best I have heard Yes, this set up is on par with a good CD transport. This based on my actual listening. |
Back on topic, Darko loves his streaming rig more than his vinyl! His words in a review of a network switch. A quote from him here says it all! In this review he determined adding the audiophile switch helped the sonics of his streaming front end which he already loved. I agree! “Let’s be clear: the Innuos Zenith SE MKII is a spectacular sounding streamer. Tonally rich with a wonderful sense of ease that we just don’t get from entry-level streamers. The Aqua La Scala MKII Optologic is also one of the finest, most satisfying DACs available below US$10K. Together the Innuos and the Aqua form a high-end digital audio powerhouse that aces anything I hear from my vinyl rig – a Technics SL-1200G w/ Ortofon 2M Black or PS Audio or Wyred 4 Sound phono stage – and would have many asking, “How can it get any better than this?” |
Streaming music even high res is much less technically difficult than streaming high res video (with audio). At CD resolution streaming music is a piece of cake. Most dacs these days will even deal with the jitter that can arise from connections. Jitter control/rejection is key. I can’t comment on higher res than cd streaming. I am good with that still currently even compared to vinyl and have not dabbled with higher res audio. That is correspondingly more challenging. So you see I can be relatively easily satisfied compared to some. I see greatly diminished return or even any of value beyond where I am which is very good place to be. I am ECD with sound but perhaps not as much as some. My sound is already miles beyond anything I’ve had prior over about 40+ years of sonic obsession and in the same league as the best I ever hear these days. |
Take your pick. But why one would choose CDs done right to streaming done right is beyond me.Don't under sell the benefits of private property and owning content. There are voices against private property that have become louder, if not less fringe. And this extends to the digital music domain and the legal limits of what we can do with music copies that we own. The CD on my shelf is mine, at least for now. Music and artists that I value I put in my personal collection, even if I sometimes choose to stream the same content due to convenience or (less so) quality. |
