Yamaha integrated amp as3000 vs Pass integrated

Luxman ?? Love mine, and never heard a Pass unit I liked.

Have not heard the top end Yammies. I've read somewhere though that there is a very big gap between the top end Yammie integrated and the next one down. Luxman has a closer spread between top of the line and next models.

Event though I'm not a Pass fan, I actually think the Pass INT250 would be better here.  While the Yamaha are very good, I think they actually sound just a small bit of "low fidelity" when compared to Pass.  Pass is much more "natural" sounding.  That being said, the Pass will have a warm FET type of sonic signature.  This characteristic -might- make the Yamaha sound just a bit cleaner/clearer, but the Yamaha has a bit of a bright edge in my opinion.  I suppose it really depends on what kind of sound you're after.

What are your speakers efficiency and impedance rating. I haven't looked in to the Luxman line, but the importer is in my neck of the woods. Interesting thing is there is now a choice of class A or AB at similar price points. I've only heard the Lux once, and it sounded quite good, but the system was too unfamiliar to me. Interesting what you said about the Yammie's Erik... I was under the impression the the 2100 and 3000 are both holding the goods...better parts, trannies...than the models below. I've been very impressed by my Croft phono integrated, and have no issue endorsing it, if you're analog only. It won't rock the house like a big Yammie, but it plays nicely with low efficiency Harbeths in my setup. 

No contest jump on the Pass much better sound.

My speakers are 90 dB efficiency ! Thank all for sharing your thoughts on this 

Yamaha will be here long after Pass is gone .

@erik_squires Only in price. Sonically speaking AS3000 sounds basically identical to AS2100 which is to say spectacular. A-S3000 looks better, still not as good as a Luxman.

Not sure where @fjn04 is getting his idea from that any of the Yammie MOSFET amps have a bright edge. They actually sound pretty close to Pass INT-60 in my opinion. Luxman is actually brighter than both Pass and Yammie, not that any of the 3 should be considered bright by any means. Luxman is just the leanest sounding by like 1/10th of a millimeter.

Sorry @fjn04,I meant @auxinput

For the moneys I will go with Yamaha over Luxman , remember this Luxman factory was build in Japan and yanny factory was build in Malaysia which is cheaper 

No get the Yamaha just because it will be here forever.(Ho Ho).

Not used but factory refurbished and a very nice price IMO.
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamas3000bl/yamaha-a-s3000-natural-sound-integrat...

Bill

@ Willard  consider it used but not a refurbished, one owner here got one for sale but his was silver and I was prefer black one lol 

IMO, a more neutral sounding amp compared to the 3 talked about here would be a Hegel H300/H360. If you are looking for a warmer integrated, check out a newer McIntosh. 

I own the Yamaha AS3000 and definitely wouldn’t describe it as having a bright edge. To the contrary actually. Nice fluid and spacious sound (not quite as spacious as good tubes though). I used to own a Pass Labs X250 amp and x1 pre and while that was a number of years ago I would think the two are quite comparible with the Yamaha maybe being a tad more organic sounding. But different speakers and too many years have passed to say for sure. Either is a great piece. Aesthetics are a personal issue but I prefer the AS3000 especially in silver. Gorgeous piece.

@arch2 my whole systems was black , if my systems was silver I would get the one from you already ! Too bad.

I have owned the Pass INT-250. Best integrated you can buy, period.

@browndt the int 250 is very nice piece but it ewas over my used budget ! My budget was less than 4K ! For the moneys less than 4K you will get totl Yamaha AS3000 it hard to beat !

@atl4love Hi Andy, I didn't realize you were the one asking the question. Actually I'm going to hang on to my AS3000. Even though I'm not using it presently (back to tubes) I really like it and will probably use in a second system. BTW you mention above about not wanting to get the black factory refurbished unit. Though my 3000 isn't a refurb I did end up purchasing the matching Yamaha NSF901 speakers for this integrated as factory refurbished through A4L last year. I have had zero issues with them and they look new, so my experience with A4L has been very good. Good luck with your search!

I’ve yet to encounter a SS amplifier that better mimics all the good traits of tubes than the MOSFET Yamahas. Their sound is like that of what you’d expect to get with a SS/tube hybrid amp (if you didn’t know that hybrid amps typically sound nothing like tubes.)

I think some folks describe them as bright because they’re revealing and have well-defined leading edges. They don’t do much to polish poor recordings or upstream gear. If you want super smooth (and boring sound), look elsewhere.

I owned a Yamaha integrated back in the day and a receiver as well.  The receiver was just ok, but the integrated was quite nice, including the overall build quality.  I have not seen the new AS3000, but from the pictures it looks quite stunning.  I currently own Pass INT-150.  I think it is the best sounding amp I have owned.  I can't see myself replacing it any time soon.  I bought mine used for $3K.  If you can find one for that price I don't think you can go wrong. I did look at Hegel once for a second system.  I think they are a good value.  You are not paying for eye candy with them.

@Jtucker at 3k I don’t think you can get another deal like that !yes I would look at pass int 150 also ! Thank for advice 

get the Pass  why horse 
play 

I get that many love Pass, but it is not universal. I don't think Pass is or should be the gold standard at all.


You are free to like it, but please keep in mind it is a personal standard, and most certainly not universal.


No one should buy a Pass unit without listening to it.



Best,

E

From what I have read, the as3000 is rated at 100w at 8ohm and 150w at 4 ohm. You should study your speaker impedance and see if there are any significant dips. I use the Marantz PM 11s3 which is conservatively rated at 100w at 8ohms and doubles to 200w at 4 ohms. Bench testing confirms both ratings are significantly understated. My Focals dip down to 3.2ohms at 100db. This integrated drives them beautifully. You can still find this amp used for around $2,500-$3,000. Built like a tank, but Marantz does not get as much love as some other brands. 

BTW, I have tried Pass (Int150), Hegel (160) and Ayre (AX-5). Ayre was the only integrated that sounded noticably better than the Marantz( although barely). At 2 1/2 times the price used I was happy staying with my Marantz. 

@atl4love
I have listened to the Yamaha AS-2100 for several months and thoroughly enjoyed its performance. I was using it to power Dynaudio Contour 3.4LEs at the time. Dyns are big on power and need a substantial amp capable of high current for them to really shine. I replaced a Primaluna HP dialogue that I had been listening to for about 4 weeks; I felt the As-2100 was a better match. Smooth, fluid, yet good dynamics and a nice hint of sparkle/shimmer that helps round out the sense of high resolution. The AS2100 was never fatiguing.
Fast forward; I now have Dynaudio Contour 30’s and recently tried a Luxman 507ux for weeks; If audio memory serves the Luxman is more resolving, higher degree of finesse and polish with incredible midrange. Luxman has a full sound that is pretty much complete. If I wasn’t such a giant audio nut, I would have just called it a day with the Lux...but this stuff is too much fun ;)
I felt the As-2100 bass was awesome and remarked that it sounded far bigger than the 90 wpc rating (mostly a result of high quality/ high current power supply with low output impedance);
I have read that the Lux 507ux is superior to the AS3000, and I don’t doubt that, but i’d venture to say the differences would be rather small; More of what flavor stands out to you, kind of thing;

I soaked in the 507ux sound for a while then changed up to a Pass Labs X150.8;
The Pass Labs X150.8 has more reach at the ends, even more inner detail, is more transparent, and power that just does not stop. It is also very smooth and natural; More neutral and uncolored than the Lux 507ux which may work for or against the sound you are looking for;
I have had for a year, the X250.5 and again, if audio memory serves the Pass .8 series stuff is significantly better in all the important ways;

Being at a decision point, I was about to go with a Luxman 509X, but decided to go full out with the Pass amplification and moved on to a new X250.8 and XP-20 preamp; This stuff arrives mid next week; I personally feel that Pass is at or very near the top of the game and pretty much delivers it all depending on how much you are wiling to fork over; Of course I have not heard everything out there, so this is just my opinion.

That being said, someday, I would love to try the 509X :)

at ~$4K for Yammie AS3000 vs. ???$$$ for Pass INT the answer to what will work better for you is heavily dependent on MANY factors (room acoustics, speakers, cables, SOURCE, etc);
The opinions on Audiogon are a great starting point and its generally a good resource, but in the end, go with your gut; if it does not perform in a few weeks, let it go and try the other thing. It’s all good!

Let us know what you decide on and how it works out for you.
Cheers

@sjtm I have look at the pm11 also but after a few weeks of watching the market of the Marantz I have seen a lot of them for sale as low as 1500 and I know the pm11 was same class with as3000 that make me curious about the quality of Marantz why them selling so cheap and a lot of them in the used market unlike as3000 which is rare come up for sale used and the value for used was still higher than pm11 , so I have to back out the Marantz lol, any way thank for the advice 

@dpac996  I also have Yamaha as2100 for a month and it drivIng a pair of Nola boxer s2 with 90 dB at 8 ohm ,the sound was great but I’m still itchy for more of upgrading lol , btw I’m now pick the Yamaha AS3000 and pass int 150 either of them come up for sale I will grab it , I try not to go separate route which is kinda expensive lol , thank for your advice 

Atl4love - please direct me to where I can purchase a Marantz PM 11s3 for $1,500. I will buy it ( already own 2). The S3 was discontinued 2 years ago when replaced by the PM-10, a class D typology. You may occasionally see the PM11s1 or PM11s2 for $1,500-$2,000 but these are now 10+ years old and the S3 benefitted from upgraded features. They all however are built like tanks, all built in Japan and are reference quality. I also have two SA- 11s3 sacd players ( I have two systems) and all four units have worked flawlessly in the 3+ years I have owned them. I went through nearly the entire line of Marantz integrateds over the last 7 years ( PM-5005, PM-6005, PM 7005,PM-8005). All worked perfectly. Tried other brands along the way but kept coming back to Marantz. FWIW

@sjtm the  lowest prices for PM11S3 was 1600 , I was offer the guy 1500 but he reject me and sold to another member for 1600, you can get the PM11S3 for cheap as people try to upgrade their Marantz gear to latest pm10 so now is your chance 

It took me almost a whole year to decide on purchasing my next amp. The Yamaha AS3000 is the ultimate integrated. If you find the sound the least bright look elsewhere in your system! It is the smoothest, most fatigue-free musical experience I have enjoyed in the last 30 years. Sound has impressive low frequency foundation, and front to back soundstage is borderline holographic.The style of this amp is timeless, and the meters illumination is warm off-white LED, (shall I say tube like?) not the cold blue-white type. Other amps will look dated fairly soon I’m affraid, never the Yammie. Get the exquisite silver, any integrated this size ends up looking like a home-cinema receiver in black! This glorious unit is overbuilt everywhere you can touch it, insanely so. And for sure, you are NOT paying a premium for the name. Cheers!

PS: Find my Yamaha AS3000 reviews here on Agon, still very happy with my choice.

@sonicbeauty thank for your input ! Right now I’m between pass int 150 and as3000 both of them are rare find on the used market but I don’t think I can go wrong on either one of them 

As my primary listening/home theater space is currently undergoing remodel, everything is upstairs in one room:

https://i.imgur.com/vnPQlH4.jpg

A-S1100, Luxman L507uX, Audio Research LS28/VT80/Schiit Freya combo.

Yes, the Luxman L507uX is more resolving than Yammie by a small factor, I notice it especially on string instruments but you really, really have to listen for it. If blinded, I could not tell either side by side. Bass seems equally tight with both, as the the treble extension. Somehow the Yammie does sound more tube like than the Luxman. Not in the Audio Research way, more like Primaluna way. 

As to holographic sound staging, both are good until I flip on the LS28/VT80 combo and then it's another story. 

So I would say Yammie sounds more like old school tube design like Primaluna. Luxman is more like Audio Research. Neither deliver the last ounce of 3D soundstage that either Primaluna or AR deliver.

If I had to downgrade and pick, I could happily live with any one of them.

Normally, the Luxman stays upstairs and powers Aerial 6Ts in the living room and 5Ts in my home office. The Yammie stays downstairs in the theater room and powers Aerial 7Ts connected to Yamaha CX-A5100 for movie watching/background music while exercising. When I really want to sit down and listen to music, the tube combo comes on via a Luxman speaker selector.

@astelmaszek it would be nice if we can compare as3000 again Luxman you have! I currently have as2100 and I love it pair with my Nola boxer , the best sound I never heard before but I’m still itchy for the as3000 with the big donut transformer that I never seen on any other Yamaha 

Donut transformers come with their own set of issues. All of these amps are so seriously overspeced/overbuilt that I seriously doubt I could tell a difference between them. I had the 1100 and 2100 side by side for a couple of months before I sold the 2100 and to me they sounded identical when fed via RCA from Chord Hugo 2. I cannot imagine the 3000 sounds that much better, but that’s why I always buy new gear before selling older stuff, so I can do side by side on the fly comparison. My assumption is that the 507 and 3000 will sound a tiny bit different but I wouldn’t say one that one will be better than the other. Yammie to me gives up that last gram of detail resolution for more harmonically rich sound. What it gives up there, it seems to reclaim with a slight advantage in low bass. Neither give me the last ounce of presence/ambience I get from the AR tube gear which is weird cause the AR gear is actually the driest sounding of all 3. 

It always baffles me when people ask what specific piece of equipment they should buy rather than stating what aspects of sound reproduction they value most and/or are looking to improve upon.  Without knowing the latter, how can we possibly recommend the former?  Argh!!!

@atl4love You know what other piece of Yamaha gear has a donut transformer? Their top of the line CX-A5000/5100/5200 home theater processor which is actually not too shabby of a preamp/DAC in itself. I love mine. Just upgraded from CX-A5000 to CX-A5100 that I bought from a member here. Cannot wait for the home theater room to be finished. Doing a bit of crazy architectural work where a 25ft wall will entirely disappear and open the theater to the outside when the weather is nice. It's taking forever.

So I've spent the weekend playing few test pieces between Yamaha AS1100 and Luxman L507ux and switching on the fly. Luxman is better by a small factor. Yamaha is just a little bit vailed and a bit less natural to me. The low end is a bit too much on Aerial 7Ts. On the other hand, when using Aerial 5Ts, my preference goes to Yamaha.