I would get a house, or a cabin, where you can install a true dedicated 20 amp circuit, and also, have the benefit of non connecting walls with others. If Krell recommends a dedicated 20 amp line, with your current apartment, this would not be the amp for you. Usually, ime, 20 amp circuits require heavier gauge in wall wiring. If I recall, the attached power cord, has a 20 amp plug.
Can you put a Krell in an apartment?
As you see I am a total "goner" living in a cheap apartment with about 50 grand in Audiophile equipment. I am looking at purchasing an old krell "FPB 400 CX" amp that the manufacturer says needs a dedicated 20 amp line. Can you still run this amp off a regular electrical outlet? If you can, will it sound like crap?
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I can just see the KRELL taking out all the electric for the whole apartment complex. Lol!! Sounds awesome!!! I am going to move forward with the purchase and see if I can get an electrician over here to run a line from the main box on the apartment building. True "GONERS" never quit. Even if they live in a 500 square foot apartment in the hood. |
In an apartment I'd run a smaller amp with better power conditioning. Looking at the spec, it draws 350 at idle, 3,000 max. The 350 is do-able in an apartment, but it will be a room heater. The maximum power draw at 15 A (the usual, non dedicated circuit) is usually given to be 1,800 W. You could probably get away with it, but I'd still recommend power conditioning that can handle 15 or 20 Amps, mostly due to how dirty apartment power can be. Keep in mind, apartments = small listening area. You don't need as much power, and smaller speakers tend to do better. Treat your room as much as you can, and you'll be amazed at how big a sound you can get. |
In an apartment, you want speakers that sound lively and full at lower volume levels. These types of speakers a re most likely to be high efficiency models that also don't require much power. Even if you are already committed to some kind of low efficiency speaker, it makes sense to focus on amplifiers that deliver good sound at modest output levels. Really big amps tend to sound a little bit lifeless when they are called upon to only deliver very low output. I would be looking at quality, not quantity in your circumstances. Since you are probably never going to get close to drawing 3,000 watts and you should never expect to play the amp at the limits of its capability, the bigger concern is how much the amp draws on turn on. When the amp is first turned on, it can draw quite a bit while it is charging the capacitors in the power supply. That short term draw may trip a breaker, particularly if there is other stuff on the line that are already drawing power. Another practical consideration: 350 at idle is a LOT of power which is not only wasteful, it will mean a lot of heat output; is your air conditioning up to snuff in the summer? |
jeffvegas - Can you still run this amp off a regular electrical outlet? If you can, will it sound like crap? Jeff - yes and not like it can. I would be more concerned with the detrimental long term effects the lack of power will cause your amp components - especially at start up. The power switch component will eventually go . You will definitely see your lights dim when powering it on. A telltale sign of bad things to come....... |
As you see I am a total "goner" living in a cheap apartment with about 50 grand in Audiophile equipment. I am looking at purchasing an old krell "FPB 400 CX" amp that the manufacturer says needs a dedicated 20 amp line. Can you still run this amp off a regular electrical outlet? If you can, will it sound like crap? Sorry man, your question is simple enough. Instead of saying we don't even know where to start they are advising you on where to live and rebuilding your whole system. Almost all of it total malarkey. Oh well. Yes. Of course you can. No problem. Will it sound like crap? Well in the big scheme of things no. Keeping in mind you are in an apartment, RFI and power problems galore, then the whole 15 amps/20 amps thing pales in comparison. Only possible small problem, one of the few relevant comments above, there may be some small chance that depending on what all else is on that circuit, that if it all happens to be running at the same time AND you happen to turn the Krell on at that time, then MAYBE you trip the breaker. Not likely but in an apartment situation who knows how they wired it or what else you might have running. Anyway, point is, that is the worst that can happen. In which case you turn something off, flip the breaker, try again. In spite of what people assume the greatest power draw is not playing music loud but when filling the power supply caps from empty to full which only happens right at turn-on. Now about that cabin. You want a waterfall nearby. For the hydro.... |
The cabin remark had me rolling. Forget that, Maybe I should sell everything, run to COSTCO and buy a large TUFF SHED and call an electrician to wire it up. Sound proof it and then throw some D'AGOSTINO RELENTLESS AMPS In there with some WILSONS. Now that I ponder that idea, I would actually be very happy in that situation. I am so gone. |
Well I live in an apt (in SF no less) and I had no issues installing a dedicated 20A line. I used Cardas outlets. It was a bit spendy at ~$1K all in, but totally worth it. My amps (Vinnie Rossi) don't draw nearly as much as the Krell, and I can typically only listen at moderate levels; but my Transparent conditioner really wanted 20A, so I did it. |
Didn't Krells require special doorways? https://zombiesites.com/shotcontext/search/label/forbidden%20planet.html All the best, Nonoise |
Your neighbors are going to despise you. When I bought my condo My amp was a 125 wpc Soundcraftsman pushing a pair of Studio 60 Paradigm's. After 2 months I was almost tossed from my own home. I downgraded to a Marantz 2252B and a pair of Yamaha NS500's. My neighbors and my ears are all happy the last 5 years now. |
I used to want a Krell, once upon a time... Back when I 'webchatted' for grins, I used to host the Krell Bar.... "Any inconceivable potion you desire...but you WILL clean up your mess." Sure, a Krell in an apartment, no prob. The neighbors will be a bit cranky when you 'brown-" or 'black out" them, but you'll get to meet them. What sort of 'tude you'll greet will vary...almost guaranteed. Anytime, you can break your rent agreement...inadvertently as well. Without having to go 'full right rudder', after a fashion.... You could always set up in a 'common area' and hold raves... Tape the windows first. You may get to replace it if the insurance company agrees to cover it being 'borrowed' by an 'admirer' of it. Pity they forgot to bring it back.... Ah...Life in the Big *hitty.....;) Good variable factors.... |
I'm not sure what the 15amp circuit will do to the sound quality but I have run plenty of construction machinery over 15amp circuits and they trip the breakers constantly. If we run it on a 20amp circuit we do not experience the problem. If you run the Krell on 15amps and someone turns on a microwave or hairdryer or a coffee maker, that's on the same circuit as the receptacle the Krell is on, you may be making trips to the breaker box |
You will get all the legally allowed low bass extension you desire . And likely will not draw more than 8 amps anyways. I’m waiting for the electric utility to switch my panel so i will have the 2x 20amp plugs available . Right now i am running 60amps worth of gear off a single 15. You would have to be doing something pretty outrageous to blow it. |
At least with the KRELL when someone tries to steal it they will blow their back out trying to move it. It also can serve as a space heater in the winter. So even though I may be spending 4 grand on a 30 year old amp that probably doesn't sound good anymore it has some other uses. Plus it looks cool. |
Standard 12ga wire will carry 20amps with no problem if the amp is the only appliance on that particular circuit. If you dedicate one breaker to the amp, the wiring in the apartment should carry the load without heat build-up. Standard construction code usually requires 12ga wire, but I would check the guage of wire on the outputs of the breakers just to be sure. |
There is a 20 amp breaker in the box for the Air conditioner. That's the only thing on the breaker. I am going to plug the KRELL into that and go without air conditioning. I will have to listen to my system naked wearing ice packs in the summer as the Las Vegas heat and the KRELL will heat the room up to about 125 degrees. Well worth it for good sound. I am so gone. |
I let a friend store his Harley in my basement ( I live on a hill so it a walk in bsmt.) one winter. then he came to pick it up, he started it in the house rather than pushing it out first. Wife just came down and gave me the "look". Storage depot closed for business. Get some big Boulders. They play loud and strong and you can keep clothes only while listening. However, they will burn down your credit rating. |
I would not be that comfortable buying a 30-year old solid state amp. Many of the components, like the output transistors, may be hard to replace if they go bad. Tube gear is quite different in that most of them can be relatively easily serviced and stuff that is 60-70 years old don't give me much concern. If you are now considering alternatives to the Krell, it would help to know about the rest of your system, that is, if sound quality is of some importance. I don't quite understand going to extremes to fit in one piece of gear instead of looking for something appropriate to the system and the venue. A small apartment should mean looking for suitable speakers and then electronics that work well with the speakers. I cannot imagine why some high-powered behemoth is suitable, even if the speakers are notoriously inefficient or need some juice to come alive. |
Boulder 850s ( now discontinued) might be a great "apt. amp' Small 40 lb boxes, run cool, I think they sound great with proper preamp . They are rated at 200 w/ch but fight above their weight. Some people find them to dry but I prefer the power amp remain neutral and adjust the tone of the system via, front end componets and cabling. Look around. They pop up used now and then |
I don't know about the specifics of this amp, but, something that old that cost so much back then would be astronomically higher in price in today's market. I doubt that there have been much technological advances in amp design that this amp would be easily outperformed at this price level. Of course this is all contingent on the amp being in flawless condition. All Krells run hot, and heat always shortens the life of components. If this has been a heavily used amp, it might not be worth the price of purchase and refurbishing. There really is no way of knowing, so it is a bit of a gamble. It is good to hear that Krell can still service the amp, that is not always the case with old solid state gear. |
Jeff, I don’t believe you will hear a difference in weather or not you have a 20amp breaker or 15 amp unless you’re running full tilt maximum output, which I doubt it if you in an apartment. The only way the breaker will come into play is if you suck more power that it can handle and it will trip the breaker. Now, that being said if you have a dedicated line for the amp with nothing from the rest of the apt on it, then that will sound cleaner due to isolation tho no the breaker size. As far as harming the amp: well I have be running a Krell 300c on a regular 15 amp line for years with no issues but I don’t play my music at ear shattering levels. My amp was built in the late 1990s and is working fine to this day. It does run run a little warm being class A however I like the Class A sound. I’m sure there are many amps out there that will sound a bit better but I’m pretty happy with this one for now. If you’re really concerned I’d call Krell. |
I have an old KSA 50. I don’t use it all the time, but love it nonetheless even thought it is bass heavy. Krells have a soft start so I don’t think you’ll have a problem unless you’re trying to make your ears bleed. =) In my house (old four square) and 20x25x10 living room, my KSA-50 gives off some serious heat. But then, who cares. The sound is amazing.. Enjoy your Krell. |
I live in an apartment in New York City and put in two dedicated 20A lines and a brand new panel after discovering that the old panel was manufactured in the 1950s, and had been declared a fire hazard. I had the electrician put in hospital grade outlets. I bought the apartment, though, that might not be so easy in a rental but what landlord would say no to a tenant upgrading the electrical system on their own dime? The super in my building told me that ConEd ran new wires from the basement to my apartment, in the chase, because there had been a fire in a lower level apartment years ago and the smoke went into the chase. So, I lucked out, I guess. I run a massive Gryphon Colosseum stereo amp driving a pair of Gryphon Cantatas. The sound is clean and deep, and smooth. I don’t play loud, or late at night, so nobody has complained. I run the Niagara 5000 as a power conditioning unit and have all of my gear plugged into it, so I have an unused 20A line. Anyway, talk to a licensed electrician and enjoy the music! |
No, you cannot run this amp in your apartment. Take it from one who has had both the FPB 300cx AND the 400cx. I ran my 300cx in a condo and CONSTANTLY was blowing circuits. The 400cx actually has TWO power supplies and absolutely requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit. Given your space, you will absolutely fine with a 300cx and it will sound great. |
In terms of size and weight why would you even want this in a small apartment especially if at some point you want to change things around? I honestly wish I had the space for something like this but you might see it turn into a major headache physically in spite of it sounding good. What is the size and weight? It looks like a beast though I bet it sounds great. |
Quite a lot of nonsense responses here. I suppose a little knowledge is dangerous. As has been alluded to, there should be no problem running the Krell. Regardless of not using all it's available power, the larger Krells sound better than the smaller ones and this alone can justify the purchase. As for the 300 watts at idle, this is common in high-end. Most amps draw between 100 to 200 watts at idle with some extremes running to 1200 to 1500 watts. The suggestion that you need to have strong A.C. because of the 300 watt idle is just audiophile lore. If you have a ton of gear, already you have hundreds of watts at idle, the Krell is not going to add that much more. Additionally I have found that you don't need to have the Krell on all the time at any rate. An hour or two turn on before listening will suffice to stabilize the sound quality. Enjoy! |
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