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You are probably going to save some money with the Tektons versus Legacy. Also quite different aesthetics. Other than that, I think it would be a toss-up based on personal preference. It would be best to audition in home before committing if possible, especially if going to spend more on the Legacy. Tekton has a 8 ohm option which could be a significant difference with many amps. Legacy Focus is is 4 ohm I believe.
As already suggested home audition if at all possible. I've heard both speakers but not in direct comparison. Tekton Double Impacts I find more musical , engaging and more natural/organic in sonic character yet exceptionally dynamic and lively. Audiogon member Mac48025 has owned both, email him, he has good ears and is friendly.
I can’t speak to the Tektons, but I bought the Legacy Signature SEs earlier this year, which are one step down from the Focus SEs I believe. These are spectacular speakers. The twin woofers and the AMT mid range/tweeter units...they produce a fantastic soundstage in my room now. I just tweaked the placement a bit recently...just a wide, precise soundstage, huge depth and it’s all so transparent.
Edit: They are great for rock and electronic music, as I mainly listen to jazz, rock and electronic, I needed a pair of speakers that perform well with all genres.
As Charles mentioned I had both speakers in my home for over a month. Both are great speakers. I sold the Legacys and have been enjoying the DI's for over a year now. Both speakers did many things right but to my ears the DI's are more musical and definitely more dynamic. In my room the DI's disappear creating a wall of sound that is deep, dynamic and precise with great tone and realism. The DI's won't be in my main system for long though......my DI SE's should be arriving in the next month ;)
Thanks all! I think this gives me enough AMMO, to make a decision. I do love the aesthetic of the Legacys better and figured they would have more bass. As I said, my 802s are weak there, so I’ve been craving the speakers of old where 12-15 inch woofers were commonplace and gave a good visceral smack to your chest. But the majority rules, so I will try the DI’s...they’ll fit my listening room better anyway.
Cohicks here is the skinny we are Legacy dealers and are signed up to represent the Tekton DI SE when they ship out to dealers.
We have heard both here is the tale of the tape:
Legacy $7k a pair Tekton with decent paint and wire upgrades $4,300.00 upgraded Tekton Se are going to be $6,500.00 so that will make them both very close. Winner Tekton
Styling: Legacy is much more elegant facted cabinet, vs plain box winner Legacy
Imaging: Tie both are excellent the Legacy's have a bit more defined sound stage, the Tekton's do throw a big image with a unique layered quality in the midrange.
Impact: tie the Di is a bit easier to drive, the Legacy's generally work better with solid state in terms of bass the Signatures really benefit from a high damping factor solid state the Nuprime ST 10 at $1,695.00 sounds freaking amazing on them, with unbeliveable bass and dynamics.
Ease of Drive: Although both systems are high effiiency the Legacy is a bit harder to control the large conventional designed bass drivers,
Resolution: the Legacy's Heil AMT tweeter and upper midrange have a bit more air and sparkle
Midrange accuracy the DI tend to sound a bit more real on male vocals with a bit more weight.
Overall this is a tough choice if you love air, clarity, stunning cabinetry for a bit more money Legacy
If you want absolute bargin for the money, and value a warmer tonality with a bit less treble clarity, and a bit of a boxy look Tekton.
In terms of Mac48025, setup the Zotel amp design as well as an SET is not good at controlling a woofer with the type of conventional design, like the Legacy, Eric uses Emminance pro drivers which are much less sensitive to having a higher damping factor, so the Tekton's are less fussy about an amplifiers damping factor and drive for that reason and I think Mac loves a really warm sound which the Tektons are warmer is the reason why he fell for the Tekton's over the Legacys.
A conventional push pull or a high damping factor switching amplifier makes the Legacies come alive.
I hope that helps either way you can't lose with either of these titans it will all come down to personal taste and what you value.
Davve and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
I believe that Mac was using different power amplifiers with his Legacy speakers. The ZOTL and SET amplifiers are very viable choices for the Double Impacts as it is easier to drive than the Legacy. The DI allows a wider range of amplifiers to be used successfully.
There are very happy DI owners who use solid state (SS) or even class D amplifiers. Also happy owners using their lower power (tube or SS) amplifiers. One thing I noticed with the DI is with proper speaker set up/placement they can disappear in your room. These speakers really reflect the amplifier and all upstream components convincingly. Based on my listening the sound can really change depending on the chosen amplifier. So be aware that you’ll hear whatever the sonic character of your system components. Resolution is high but isn’t analytical, in fact quite a natural presentation.
Wow!!! My mind is spinning! Thanks Dave, Troy, and Charles! This is why I was having trouble in the first place...I figured the speakers were equally matched on performance rather than price and appearance so much. It's just a matter of very personal choice...do you like to Jam at a good volume to beautiful sound? Or do you like to sit and sip wine at lower volumes and strain to hear every nuance of a jazz or classical passage? I like Vodka and do both! Now it's back to the drawing board. Whichever speaker I choose, I will be running my Parasound Halo A-21 through them. Let's have a solid state listening challenge because I can't get a good trial of both speakers in my home without losing some serious cash from shipping and restocking fees or taking an expensive trip. The Parasound has a damping factor of 1100 @ <20Hz...whatever that means in terms of performance...I don't know. So take the closest amp you have to the Parasound at Audio Doctor and hook it up...put on the Rush Moving Pictures CD or Album and give me your opinion on the performance at high and low volumes. Thanks Guys!
Charles1Dad you are missing my point, that what the amps Mac had might not have worked well on the Legacys and were better suited to the Tektons.
Also the Legacy's have a more detailed top end if you prefer a more rich midrange oriented sound then the Tekton's would be better.
As I mentioned these are two incredibly good loudspeakers from two companies that make very high for the dollar sets of loudspeakers compared to what you get from many others in this industry.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
If you are using a Parasound I would go Legacy, the Halo integratred is a little on the dark side and this combo would be fabulous on the Legacy's I think your top end would be a bit polite with the DIs.
It is a hard choice both are fantastic
I wouldn't describe the DI as warm either but it can preserve the full bodied sound if present in the recording. But it can be somewhat tricky (in a good sense) with the DI because they so reflect the driving amplifier. So you can tailor the sound of your audio system by amplifier choice due to the lack of editorializing (well minimal) from the DI.
300b,845, KT 150, OTL, SS (bipolar or Mosfet) etc. You'll hear their individual distinctions with this speaker. This is good in my opinion.
I am also considering the Legacy Signatures for their size to room size ratio. Just worried about the bass output. My listening room is 11' wide by 20' long. so the speaker will have to be 7-8 feet apart to not sound terrible from wall proximity. I may have to do some bass traps and wall treatments. Haven't gotten that far yet.
Guys heard the Tektons at 2 different setups they are on the warm side of neutral not a bad thing they do not have the treble detail of an amt or ribbon type tweeter but compared to many speakers which can be too anaylitical Eric did a fantastic job of voiceing the speakers.
Warm means softer treble more pronounced mids. Again two different setups same conclusion.,
Great speakers and a great deal.
It will just depend on what you value between these two superb speakers.
If you want your jaw to hit the floor listen to the Legacy with a nuprime amp the combo is freaking amazing brings out the bass & dynamics.
Add tube pre & viola.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor Nj
Well your opinion differs from mine on the DI voicing. It is certainly not warm in the least. It is more on the neutral continuum . But, great to read different takes. Warm speakers include AZ Crescendo and Harbeth 40.1s, both of which I owned. I now own the DIs and they are certainly not warm like these others. I suppose it is all relative to one’s experience with a wide range of speakers.
Agree às we both know audio opinions are by default relative and subjective. Different listeners will have varying impressions, goes with the territory so to speak. This is exactly why if at all possible you have to hear these speakers or any audio product when the opportunity exists.
I agree pretty much with what everyone has said about the tonal aspects of the Tekton Speakers. While I do not have the DI’s, I have the Electrons (compact version of DI’s). My take is that I can make them sound warm, neutral or bright very easily. Speaker wires have a HUGE influence just like amplifiers do. I am now using Wireworld Eclipse 5.2 speaker cables on them. The first thing that people say when they hear my system is "Sounds Warm". Basically Tekton speakers can be tonally changed to sound like whatever you desire rather easily.
Just worried about the bass output. My listening room is 11' wide by 20' long. so the speaker will have to be 7-8 feet apart to not sound terrible from wall proximity.My room is about 17 feet by 16 feet, but the couch is in the middle, its an open kitchen/living room. With the Signatures, the speakers are around 35" from the front wall and 8 feet apart, and I'm 8 feet from the speakers. They are also about 4 feet from the side walls. These aren't ported, so you can set them up pretty close to the walls, they also have trim switches to cut the bass and treble by 2dB depending on your listening position if you find either to be overwhelming. I have them turned off. At the nearfield listening position, the sound is perfect. None of the bandwidth is overwhelming. I did buy my pair from Dave, and it was a great experience. If you are comparing versus the base Tekton, they differ a lot in price, so I don't know if that's a good comparison. I'd find a dealer to listen to the Legacy's and perhaps find someone at Audiogon close to you who may provide a home audition. You can't decide without listening to these speakers.
Just to clarify I was using Odyssey Kismet Monoblocks and a Raven Audio Blackhawk when comparing the Focus SE's and DI's. Both amps had plenty of power to drive the Legacys. I don't think there is any way either the LTA MZ2 or the Aric Audio 300B SET that I'm using now would be able to adequately drive the Focus SE's like they do with the DI's.
I certainly wouldnt characterize the DI's as warm at all. Like many here have already stated I consider them very neutral and they will convey whatever is upstream of them.
Youre in a no lose situation with these speakers cohicks, but with the DI's at less than $4k and the Focus SE's at nearly $12k it should make your decision easier ;) I don't have any experience with the Legacy Signatures but can't imagine they are quite up to par with the Focus SE's or the DI's.
Lastly, my DI's sound great in a relatively small room.....about 13'x17'..... as they simply disappear. They may be physically large but can be as sonically large or small as you desire. I found them much more forgiving with room placement than the Legacys also, making them easier to place in a smaller environment.
One can tell the innate character of a speaker if their system is close to neutral and they have heard several flavor of speakers on said system. Also, if a speaker is warm sounding, like my previous AZ Crescendos, one would be hard pressed to find a combo of gear that makes them sound bright. Darn near impossible with most decent gear. I have found all speakers show their personality with decent gear. Hard pressed to make a speaker completely change its color with good gear. Sure, you can fine tune things.
Mac Cohocks is looking at the Signatures which are $7k vs $4.3 for the Tektons.
The Legacy Signatures are very up to par with the larger Focus, the difference is the amount of deep bass and a slightly bigger soundstage and the Focus play louder, but other than that the two speakers sound the same.
In terms of warm, yes the Tekton's are warm, in fact most soft dome tweeters made by anyone tend to be on the smooth ie warm and slightly recessed side of sound, while ribbon tweeters, AMT, and exotics Ie Beryilium, or Diamond tweeters tend to the high resolution side of the sonic specturm which can also be a good or bad thing depending on how they are matched.
I heard the DI on $60k worth of very high end electronics and they sounded great, but were definately on the warmer side of the spectrum also on the Zotel amps same thing. The speakers do have a characther, as I mentione before they the Tekton's sound fanastic as well and we are looking to bring in the Tekton Di SE as well.
Mac I don't know if the amps you had worked well with the Legacy's or your system wasn't voiced to bring out what the Legacy's do.
I will still contend my findings are pretty accurate between the two speakers, this is a battle of the ages, for both systems are terrific and each one has its own strengths which I summarized before.
As I commented before warm isn't a bad thing at all, it is how Eric voiced the speakers. compare these to a set of speakers with any of the above drivers and you will come away with the warm side of neutral.
As per the Legacy's working in a small room our demo room is 18 by 14 which isn't a giant room and they sound fanastic.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
I just don’t want the poster or reader here to think the DI speaker is a warm sounding speaker. Nothing wrong with warm at all. Just hoping for the best info for potential buyers. It is neutral, not warm. If you are suggesting they are warm compared to the Legacy speaker, then you can make that point. The seven tweeter array with its crossover points and design is not warm, but rather revealing, neutral. And completely natural. You may be confusing warm with natural. The DI speaker has amazing presence and immediacy revealing micro details missed before. It does this without “firing” this detail at you. Rather it fills your listening space naturally. It is not aggressive, but let’s you enjoy the details in a completely natural manner. Your gear can fine tune this speaker to lean towards warmth or brilliance.
Also I have heard dome tweeters sound bright and ribbon tweeters sound rather sweet and warmish.....AZ Cresendo speakers for example. The crossover design and part choices play a bigger role here.
Thanks for the clarification Dave. We both agree that they are both great speakers......even if I don't agree that DI's are on the warm sice ;) That's what makes audio so much fun, we all have our perceived notions and it's all good.
Have the DI's gone up in price? Mine were $3700 fully upgraded with high gloss automotive paint. I wouldn't be surprised if they have.
Raven amps are voiced using Legacy speakers as they are authorized Legacy dealers and use both Legacy and the DI's in their showroom and at shows. So I believe I heard the Legacys at their best. Like I said, great speakers but I preferred the DI's. No right or wrong and you can't lose with either but I had to choose one as the wife wasn't down with two pair of speakers that size! Maybe I should tell her I have the DI SE's on order.......or maybe not just yet ;)
Good points, the AZ Crescendo has a ribbon tweeter and I'd say it sounds warmer than the Double Impacts. Honestly I like both of these speakers very much. The Legacy appealed less to me but this is simply my taste. Surely someone else could definitely prefer the Legacy. This is the beauty of High End audio, something for everyone. Plenty of good audio product available.
I've got the DI's and agree with the Charles, Tom and Bill. The Raven Blackhawk tube integrated provided plenty of sparkle, vocals were amazingly textured, palpable. The bass hasn't fully broken in so hard to say. I can imagine that an AMT provides more air. "Neutral" is the most accurate term that comes to mind regarding the DI's
Acutally Kdenmangelare the Legacy's are competitive with much more expensive speakers, if you factor in the Di with better paint and wire upgrades they are $4,300.00 which is still a remarkable deal.
The Legacy's at $7k offer a much more attractive cabinet with higher waf, with a much more elegant shape that would work in a real Living Room, also in my demos with the Di the Legacy's offer greater air and clarity with the AMT drivers.
Both speakers offer a huge soundstage and tremendous prescence.
As I mentioned these are two fantastic speakers with many common features and a few different virtues for each model.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
I made it a point to audition both as they were two highly rated speakers that performed above their price points.
I made it a point to listen to the music as well as movie dialogue and I picked a movie that had dialogue that gave my present speakers (and pretty much every other speaker I auditioned) problems in resolving the finer details.
And just to be up front, I love ribbons and planer speakers. That is pretty much what I have bought.
The short version was that I thought they were very close. I went back and forth with the midrange and treble especially with the music and the hard to resolve dialogue. I was surprised that the Tekton not only held it's own against the ribbon but I actually thought it might have even more resolution - but it was close wither way. The tweeter/midrange array does it's job.
I did not hear any of the warmness that was mentioned. I thought it was very neutral, but that is going to be something that only your ears can tell you.
Also, the version I heard was the standard $3000 buy direct from Tekton version. I know the dealer version has some different internals and it is more expensive, but I'm not sure it's worth it --- but I have not heard them back to back. The standard $3000 version was what I heard and it was the equal to the Focus and no comparison to the Signatures which are actually closer to the Tekton price point.
As far as finish and looks, there is no comparison. The Legacy speakers are much nicer to look at. Real wood veneers, etc. Very well done. The Tektons I heard had the standard soft glow finish paint. I personally don't like that finish, but they offer an upgraded automobile finish gloss that is about what the Wilson speakers have on them. They are an upgrade (I think $500 but not sure). I would go with that and you have a nice looking (but not wood veneer speaker for a whole lot less money.
You should listen to both if you can before you decide.
No Mofojo, in my opinion after hearing them in two totally different setups they were warm not saying they didn't sound great, but their treble although it was there it was not as bright and clean as I thought they would be. The Di bass was excellent, midrange too.
We sold the Jantsen ZA 2.1 which uses the same SB tweeter, so we know what that tweeter sounds like. It is a great tweeter but it still does not poess the detail that an AMT or a Raven type Ribbon is going to create.
Eric likes these tweeters and uses them amazingly well as a compound midrange driver brilliant idea vs a line array.
Everyone's idea of what contates bright vs warm is going to be different.
No James_W514 not hijacking anyting, if you noticed this was a post about both products one we are a dealer for and another we are going to be a dealer for. So obvioulsy like both and know a good deal about both.
Also your comments, about this are silly, my dealership sells a lot of great brands, as well as going to many shows, we were just at Capital Audio Fest and the New York Show.
Good luck to you
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
Unlike some I tend to post sparingly and only when I feel I either have something to contribute or feel I must.
I have had the pleasure to have heard both speakers.
I would most definitely not describe the Tekton DI as warm.
But I would not describe them as bright or lean either.
I agree with others that they are very neutral.
I agree that they are revealing, transparent and fast/quick. Very much like a panel and a horn but not with their negatives and with all the positives of those designs plus all the positives of a great driver design.
Best of both worlds.
I also agree that the DI are a window of what you use with them.
When I heard them at Capital Audio Fest I could tell that they were being held back by the equipment being used with them, not that equipment are not good.
But with better equipment the DI would have soared much higher than they did.
In my experience there are few audio products that “windows” to whatever is attached to them. That can show what the weak links in a system are. And will allow what is best to shine through.
IMHO and experience the DI (and I expect the latest Tektons) are one of these rare ones.
While I would not describe the Legacy as “warm” per se, I would say that it falls on the warm side of neutral.
If I had the money to spend I would consider going to the DI SE.
Just my opinion.
Ambassador for Taiko Audio and Sound Galleries
Sound Test USA
PS I have no skin in this.
I own and LOVE my Legacy Focus HD (the earlier version of SE (2009). I power them with a MAC MC225 and even though it's output is only 30 watts or so it's PLENTY of power for these efficient Legacys.The Legacy speakers are 4 Ohm. My pre is a MAC MX-110. The bass response is outstanding and I no longer use my 18" Velodyne Sub. BUT.......I would also recommend bi amping using their Power Bloc 2 (SS) for the bass section as it gives one the ability to have extremely dynamic bass output with explosive impacts and clean effortless articulation. The Power Bloc 2 is a Class D amplifier that is designed by Legacy and has very highly regarded B&O ICEpowered modules in a dual mono bloc arrangement within the Power Bloc 2. This configuration results in a really fantastic eye opening sound difference. Can you tell I LOVE my LEGACY's? LOL! I have no experience with the Tekton DI's. Good luck with your audiophile journey.....