Water Lily Acoustics recordings are good. You may try "Kambara Music in Native tongues".
Recomend Some Albums Recorded with True Imaging.
I am looking for some recommendations of some albums recorded for true imaging. By that I mean a group of people playing acoustic instruments recorded
old school
with just two microphones. Not songs mixed from multiple tracks and balanced to give the impression they are playing in the center. I have recently been relistening to the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band's "Will the Circle be Unbroken". This is a raw recording where they found the best bluegrass and early county artists, sat them down in a studio, took one take, and (probably) recording them with just 2 microphones for stereo. No mixing and minimal processing. What they played in the room is exactly what you hear. The results for imaging is all I can say is wow. Even with a half decent system you can close your eyes and tell where ever instrument is playing from and where they are standing. And it is the first time I finally understood the phrase " the speakers disappear".
While my main preference is 70's progressive rock I don't think I will find it there. But Jazz, Bluegrass, Blues or Classical would be good. Any suggestions.
While my main preference is 70's progressive rock I don't think I will find it there. But Jazz, Bluegrass, Blues or Classical would be good. Any suggestions.
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A couple of CD's I have sound like what you are looking for. One is call "The Pizza Tapes". It is Jerry Garcia, David Grisman, and Tony Rice playing together in a home studio. It is a little raw but it is definitely live and unedited.The other I can think of is Townes Van Zant "Live at Old Quarter". It feels like you are sitting in the bar. Townes wasn't at his best, but I enjoy it. Al |
danvignau291 posts Your 'weak bass' comment is relevant to this current 'Tone Controls' Thread https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/toole-and-why-i-like-tone-controls your post "Imaging is usually executed by multi-miking. Old jazz standards from the 1960's and early 1970's are the best for my tastes. A mic on stage left, a mike on stage right, and often, a mike on the soloist. Unfortunately, the bass suffers on many of these mixes, because nearly anyone had a lot of power back then for good woofs. At least try to get analogue recordings. AVOID anything early on that brags about being purely digital". ............................................. It's not just smaller speakers, I have a pair of very efficient 15" woofers, from 1956, and often bass is recorded or purposely weak, then and now. Jazz Bass, for me, is the primary reason to have (and optionally use) an automatic 'loudness' contour for low volume listening. I yap about that in the thread I linked. |
Mingus Dynasty, Live at Montreux. Terrific Live Imaging. Mingus Dynasty is a rotating group of primarily Mingus Alumni. These are all Mingus Compositions, and, they have two bass players, one far left, one far right. (here’s stereo bass for you) Live recordings can be the best imaging, sometimes loud crowd noise ’ruins it’, here is non-disturbing, not loud crowd noise only at end of tracks. https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/1448034?sort=condition%2Cdesc&ev=rb ................................... Weird Imaging (wonderful music just don’t sit in ’focused’ listening position) Oscar Peterson, The Sound of the Trio (recorded live) https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/3596248?sort=condition%2Cdesc&ev=rb Drums Left, Bass Right, Piano Centered, should be great (as many OP Trio recordings are) But: Piano is recorded with high notes off to left of center, low notes right of center, it comes off as the largest, widest piano in the world. Then, a long drum solo, the engineer electronically moves the drummer to the center, keeping brush work left, and moving kick drum right. This from Verve ????? I was going to get rid of it, then I decided, ’get away from the weird imaging’, so I moved into far corner, and it is a terrific trio performance, one I will never part with. |
Branford Marsalis – Renaissance
https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/1552597?sort=condition%2Cdesc&ev=rb He was very young, awesome even then tracks from a few recording dates, and a few live tracks |
Toots Thielemans – Captured Alive. I played this last night. Terrific imaging of terrific musicians. I am still excited about it Not sure if you can get it new, here is first link that came up https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/9824525?ev=rb&condition=Near+Mint+%28NM+or+M-%29 I will be checking out both the label, and the pianist, Love Toots, saw him live twice, one was a reunion with George Shearing at the Blue Note, NYC. https://www.discogs.com/label/1086238-Choice-7 Gerry Macdonald knows how to record. https://www.discogs.com/artist/388271-Gerry-Macdonald Loved the pianist , Joanne Brackeen https://www.discogs.com/artist/388272-Joanne-Brackeen http://www.joannebrackeenjazz.com/ |
Rudy went Stereo Early. tape recording was stereo 1956, LP stereo cutting 1958. Major labels like Columbia had deep enough pockets to hire double the engineers and pay double the cost of labor to have two separate teams simultaneously working on the mono and stereo versions of an album. But Van Gelder enjoyed working alone, and Blue Note couldn’t afford such a robust staff anyway. Was there a way for the engineer to create both the mono and stereo master lacquer disks from a single session tape? If he only recorded to full-track tape it would have been impossible to create a stereo master from that tape, and recording to two-track tape only would have initially seemed like an unattractive option since Van Gelder did not have a stereo monitoring system in his Hackensack studio. But just when all hope for the desired simplicity seemed lost, Van Gelder, known to be quite resourceful in the studio, realized a third option: if he made both the mono and stereo LPs from a single two-track tape, he didn’t have to monitor the sessions in stereo. In other words, even if the music was being recorded to two tracks, he could still do all the recording and mixing during a session while listening to a single speaker. That way, when he went to create the mono master disk later, as long as he summed the channels together at equal volumes during the session, all he would need to do was sum them back together again the same way and he would hear exactly what was heard during the session. He called this clever method of getting two recordings for the price of one “the 50/50 system”, and on Halloween 1958, Art Blakey’s Moanin’ (BLP 4003) became the last Blue Note album ever to be recorded to full-track tape by Van Gelder. |
Sonny Rollins - The Bridge is a very fine recording, but while it has the typical jazz setting with one solo instrument 100 percent in the left and another 100 percent in the right channel it doesn’t feel very live to me. Jazz at the Lincoln Center i.e "Live in Cuba" doesn’t have this. Bruce Springsteen "The live Series" brings us lots of very live and straight recordings from the past 45 years! |
Night Train, Oscar Peterson Trio You might love a small jazz trio right in the room with you https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AAHAWMO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I own a lot of Oscar Peterson, this one is wonderful, listened to it last night. |
Imaging is usually executed by multi-miking. Old jazz standards from the 1960's and early 1970's are the best for my tastes. A mic on stage left, a mike on stage right, and often, a mike on the soloist. Unfortunately, the bass suffers on many of these mixes, because nearly anyone had a lot of power back then for good woofs. At least try to get analogue recordings. AVOID anything early on that brags about being purely digital. |
friday night san francisco, the 3 guitarists only play together side 2, 2nd and 3rd track. Vinyl! when setting up a new cartridge, after test records, I use those 2 tracks to make the final anti-skate adjustment When you get it right the left and right guitars, even though they are different body types, and different strings, sound balanced, center guitar comes alive, and live audience sounds equal l/r. If ’off’ you strain to hear it ’right’ and don’t enjoy it nearly as much as when you have the confidence to know it’s balanced. Then, you become involved, immersed it the compositions and skills. I have it on CD, Vinyl is better on a darn good, well set up TT. ............................. remote balance. I found, and I think you would truly enjoy and benefit from remote balance. MANY tracks (already in your collection) are slightly off balance, a slight tweak can make a large difference, imaging, everything ’opens up’, there is a lot of hidden magic that is unappreciated if off just a bit. I used to walk forward and back, a real PITA. I got and love this Remote Line Controller. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chase-Technologies-RLC-1-REMOTE-LINE-CONTROLLER-Complete-In-Original-Box-NEW/333463145628?hash=item4da3f3cc9c:g:bV8AAOSwEDFdpQFT Absolutely No Noise is True. s/n 105db. I and my audiophile friends, pre-disposed to simple signal path, can never tell if in line or not. Nicely, it remembers last input used, and last volume level. Several other features/benefits but it’s primary use is to tweak balance. My friend moved his wonderful system to a space with left speaker near a wall, other side open. Never gonna be perfect, but his solves the problem to a great extent. ....................................... phase reversal you may want to follow this phase reversal thread https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-to-tell-if-lp-is-recorded-with-phase-reversed |
OK RCA LSP 2527 N2PY 1268 This is the 1962 stereo release of Sonny Rollins - “The Bridge”. It was also issued in Mono but I don’t know what that sounds like. There are lots of Jazz Buffs around here who can probably tell you a lot more than I know about the production of this record but it may be what you’re after. It’s just sax, bass, and drums, and some guitar in a room. I don’t know for sure how it was miked but it sounds very real, very natural. I don’t have another album that sounds as real in tone, space, and dimension as this one. I mean, it plays like it’s 3 (or 4) fantastic musicians in my living room - each one in their own specific actual life size holographic space. It’s like the players are set up in my room. You can tell where each player was located left to right and the interaction/reverberation/overlap of instruments sounds very realistic. It this was done by mixing separate tapes I’d be very surprised. I love this whole record. Both music and SQ. But, If you want to just sample it before purchase it it’s on the streaming services. You might just try the wonderful track “God Bless the Child”. It’s on compilations too including the essential sonny Rollins RCA recordings and some others. I know this album has been remastered at least a couple of times Might be interesting to compare I’ll try to think of some others not mentioned yet. Happy listening. |
While I am always open to finding excellent recordings for the purpose of this thread lets stick to recorded in one take and minimally mixed. If not things get too confusing. I do like progressive music but I just mentioned it as an example of the type of music that is not recorded correctly (for this thread). That is why I mentioned Jazz, Bluegrass, Blues or Classical. Narrowing it down more I will say Jazz and Classical. There should be a lot of old school recordings of these. Its just a matter of finding the good ones. There have been some good recommendation so far and I have a couple of new albums coming. But finding the exact release mentioned, having it in stock and making sure it is not a CD-R copy is the challenging part. |
Sorry, I thought your original question was about music recorded around a central one or two mikes. This applies mostly to roots type stuff. What style of music do you really want recommendations for? Just the 70’s progressive rock you mention? That’s about the most produced or overproduced music you’ll find other than electronica. I mean, I’ve read about bands that wanted to do their thing live in the studio but the record companies wouldn’t let them. Stating the obvious I k ow. But this is a challenge I’ll give some thought to. |
OK I'm going to give you one. Get a copy of Wishbone Ash "Argus" but not just any copy. There is a Japanese version remastered on SHM and is also MQA encoded. I bought mine from cdJapan https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/music/ it sounds tremendous it images and its real music. |
I have plenty of great music to listen to and most are acceptable recordings (but a few sound so bad I can only listen to them in my car). And my intent is not to find music I don't like. I would like to find some well recorded examples of good music for occasional critical listening. And to be honest maybe just for bragging rights when I show off my system. Nothing worse than trying to impress your friends and playing some compressed track with zero imaging. |
Amazing Grace/ Aretha Franklin Belafonte Live at Carnegie Hall Sheffield direct to disc Tchaikovsky/ Capriccio Italienne/ Fiedler Sound Liaison single mic recordings (Carmen Gomes Sings Belafonte) H.A.R.P. A Time to Sing Jeff Hamer/ Laura Cortes - Two Amps One Mic Opus 3 Sound of Quality (sampler) Minnesota Orch. Showcase (RR) Cantate Domino PPM title album and In the Wind |
Prior to his passing, Don Grolnick was one of the most prolific musicians around. While his records are Jazz recordings, the man literally played on 1000's of NYC studio gigs for decades! Easily recommended would be Don Grolnick - The Complete Blue Note Recordings. Loaded with all-stars, its a modern-day Jazz classic (if records were still being judged that way!). Really wonderful music that's impeccably recorded. The perfect icing on this particular cake would be Grolnick's final recording; Medianoche (Midnight,) a Latin-tinged Jazz outing featuring his bro; Michael Brecker. If yr a Jazz fan and don't have these, it'll be the best money you've spent in some time!;) |
Check out the Direct 2 Disc recordings from Quality Record Pressings (AcousticSounds.com). Mostly blues recordings, but the acoustic recordings are just what you are looking for. Doug MacCleod's releases are unbelievable. Hearing that foot stomping on a wood stage is wonderful. His Reference label LPs are also of that same quality. Also, go back and listen to the Muddy Waters' Folk Singer Quality Record Pressings LP with Buddy Guy on Acoustic and Willie Dixon on stand up bass. Amazingly quiet and Muddy's voice is bone chillingly good. |
@delkal, forgot I wanted to mention that if you’re interested in the orchestral music application of this idea, the Berlin Philharmonic has been recording in their hall with a single mike (array?) up high right above the conductor’s position. I have their Beethoven symphonies that they recently made this way and it’s the best ever. |
Dude! Great post/question. I absolutely love this kind of thing. Old Crow Medicine Show, I’m with Her, Darlingside, Parson Red Heads (from Portland), A Fine Frenzy, Eric Earley (Blitzen Trapper), and The Milk Carton Kids are some artists/bands that come to mind that are performing and recording this way now. Can’t think of any Prog acts that did it. So if you’re really into this kind of sound put your headphones on and click on these. If the first one doesn’t give a joyous thrill I’m a monkeys uncle... https://youtu.be/xr5Adx54SxQ https://youtu.be/WfCcnHvv1Rs https://youtu.be/bAtPeX6Xuxo Hope these lead you to great music and listening. This one mike thing is a most excellent trend. Hope it catches on more. I love the sound of it. The Binaural recordings mentioned by @tomic601 et.al. Made by Chesky records are really good. |
Anything from Mercury Living Presence (well, the stereo ones, duh)Most anything from verve. Consider Ella and LouisSome good ones aboveThe ones i note image fantastically on both LP (assuming your TT is set up) and on digital (even if your turntable is totally broken!) but now you need a good dac and a low-jitter source |
Check out Theloniuos Monk’s - Straight No Chaser - is the album and the track is Between The Devil And The Deep Blue Sea You will get a sense of the size of the piano being played . Whatever they call it where the player slides their hand down the keys from high to low or vice versa . You can get the sense of the piano’s size if you have your sperakers wide enough apart |
The Ancony Records label (all analogue, 100%) started by Gillian Welch and David Rawlings has outstanding recordings. I am generally not a fan of that style music, but their album, "The Harrow and the Harvest" features not only very fine lyrics and acoustic guitar, but the sound quality is excellent. Even that noted audiophile source, "The Wall Street Journal" recommended it for its sound quality. |