Great cartoon in this week's New Yorker magazine. Has a caption: 'The two things that really drew me to vinyl were the expense and the inconvenience'. Sounds familiar.
I just recently bought a turntable. It is the very first I've ever owned. (ProJect Debut Carbon) And a handful of LPs to go with it (most of them used for a couple of bucks). I find it all so far very worthwhile to me. Most of them sounded better than I thought I had a right to expect.
Like mapman, I too am able to share an appreciation for either species and have had both in my house together and apart for as many years that I've been alive. I think it's utterly groovy - pun definitely intended - that vinyl's recent resurgence as an artificial reproduction medium is bringing younger people into the fold of high-fidelity. My ten year old niece loves to come over her uncle's house and flip through the LP collection...and yes, I encourage her to operate my turntable without worry she may damage anything because...that's what uncles do. She's developed an appreciation for Joni Mitchell early on and prefers to listen to her on vinyl because she can read the lyrics contained inside.
I think a lot of the arguments against the compact disc, and one that I reserve for downloading, is the loss of the tangible sense of ownership. With vinyl you get that big beautiful thing you can hold in your hands, often including liner notes, posters, photographs of the artists inside. With the compact disc you got/get a shrunken head version of that which is not very huggable. With downloading you get none of that - you get exxes and zeroes into a diminutive slab of plastic or metal.
My niece can hear the quality difference between vinyl and cd, the difference between her iPod and my A&K 100 portable player.
I prefer vinyl but happily listen to YouTube and CD when the need arises. A friend of mine informed me that vinyl sounds better than CD. Her record player is a Crosley portable!
Tubes are no better than transistors or the other way around. A solid-state amplifier does not have to be "digital" as Freedriver erroneously suggest in his "smurky" post above, which makes it kinda funny.
Freedriver obviously is misinformed about how a solid-state amplifier works. He must think that a solid-state amplifier per definition has to be "digital". Perhaps we should give him some time to study the subject carefully, then comment, as this would make for much more enlightened comments :-)
I have to just LMAO when I see multi thousand $$ TT rigs running through a SS Amp!How can anyone be taken seriously if your rig is not analogue from start to finish?
freediver, I don't understand what you mean here, exactly. Care to elaborate?
I have to just LMAO when I see multi thousand $$ TT rigs running through a SS Amp!How can anyone be taken seriously if your rig is not analogue from start to finish?NO,vinyl is NOT worth it!Digital with tubes is the only way to go.
I then dug out my vinyl version and...hiss. Pop. Click. Wow - they were still there and I didn't care! In the same exact spots where I remembered they were!
I listen to Led Zeppelin II and a remember the points where the 8 track tape my brother had would switch.
Recently I was going through my CD library and stumbled across Dark Side Of The Moon. Realizing that I had not listened to it in decades, yes decades, I fired up the ol' stereo and sat back for a listen down memory lane. How about awful? All caps - AWFUL!!! I sauntered over to the rack just to make sure something wasn't amiss. There wasn't. Turns out that it was one of the first discs I added to my collection, mirroring my vinyl collection back in the day. I then dug out my vinyl version and...hiss. Pop. Click. Wow - they were still there and I didn't care! In the same exact spots where I remembered they were! Subsequently I purchased a remastered disc version and all is well on all fronts. Lesson learned? Many of the early compact disc releases were poorly produced in haste to nourish the beast. I likes vinyl. I likes the compact disc. Achieving optimum resolution from either format runs into some considerable financials either way so...spend where you feel most comfortable AND what you will use the most!
Monumental day in the Mapman household today. My 14 year old daughter decided she wanted to play records and learned to do it today on the $70 Innovative Technology suitcase turntable she researched and found. Its a nice little gadget for kids. Nicely put together and featured for the minimal cost. Seems to work well. Even has Bluetooth to play from phones and an aux in. Reminds me somewhat of the first record player I had as A kid a much larger and heavier Motorola suitcase record player with foldout speakers which was a significant expenditure 50 some odd years ago in my parents house. She loves music and plays violin. Maybe a budding audiophile. 😍
I am in the slow process of re-doing my entire system; only the preamp will stay. I have to say re-learning record playing geometry and setup and cleaning and on and on is less painful and way more straight forward than computer audio. As far as playback, the only thing I have heard that give me pause in the opportunity cost of vinyl is the Bricasti DAC. This is amongst other upper-end digital.
Everytime I play Dean Martin's "Dream With Dean" (original pressing), Jo Stafford's "Ballad of The Blues," or Norman Luboff's "But Beautiful," I know why I love vinyl so much. I'd like to hear the digital setup that will do what these records will do on a high end vinyl setup.
I also remember Harold Youngblood, he passed in 2008, but we were friends for 20 years. I never heard of him deciding to abandon vinyl for digital, but he believed that the best of both required that the equipment be up to the task. I was into vinyl in the 80s and 90s because of an experience I had at Harold's (one of the audiophile experiences I've always been chasing to duplicate) but like many lifestyle dictated digital later, mostly as a matter of available space. I've rekindled my interest in audio as a whole and am back into vinyl in a very big way......I also love the best digital has to offer. I have a VPI HRX with a Kiseki purple heart cartridge on the analog side and an Esoteric K03 SACD player with a Bryston BDP2 on the digital side.
Someone said once that "music is what happens between the notes" and that in my opinion sums up the difference between vinyl and digital.....digital does a great job at providing you an accurate noise free picture of a recording but on a flat plane.....whereas the best vinyl rig will flesh the images out and provide you with a very intimate view of the instruments, textures, decays....vocal phrasing etc....vinyl just sounds more musical and the fiddeliness of it is a plus in my view....I love the whole ritual of cleaning, changing sides, setting up a rig, tweaking the setup etc.... So in a word YES, I think Vinyl is worth it.....but only if you're willing to commit to it with a proper rig and that's true for digital as well....
Must we sacrifice? If you're a music lover you must have both worlds (analog/digital), because of the music that's simply not available in either world. Would you give up music that you love, because it's inconvenient? Or, because there's not enough air?
If you've got both then you'll discover your preference, and if you're an audiophile you'll work on the sound, and your preference might flip and flip again.
BTW - I find my digital side to be a big pain in the butt, not convenient, and frustrating. It falls within the same pitfalls as computers, cell phones, and the like. I put up with it, because I need the music.
And, right now I prefer my vinyl, because my system is currently stronger on that side.
I consider vinyl as being one of the finer things in life. You can pour a bottle of wine into a glass or you can decanter a fine bottle. Good things in life take time.
Yes it is well worth it. If you have the time to sit and listen, if not do not bother. Today we for some reason do not have or cannot find the time to enjoy the simple pleasures in life anymore.
Yes, in my humble opinion it is worth it. No other music medium I have tried brings on the emotional engagement of good quality vinyl playing on a really good analog system. Using a tube preamp and amp also add to the pleasure. Humans are internally wired for analog.
Everytime I acquire a newer piece of quality digital gear. The more my historic fondness of vinyl becomes less of an issue.
My advice to newbies is sample the latest and greatest digital gear available if you have the funds before going retro. Unless retro is just your thing. I am a hybrid. I like it all.
Vinyl is a religion. Often people optimize their system for the vinyl and use CDs "for the convenience". It usually means that they cannot find recording they're looking for on the vinyl because of very limited selection. SACDs are generally considered better sounding than CDs but are not very popular for the same reason. I would rather spend my money optimizing system for popular media.
To me not only pops and clicks are unacceptable but also faint hiss of analog recordings. It brings me from "being there" back to my living room. As for the sound - I have some breathtaking sounding CDs showing ability of the media. I also like convienience of the computer server and ability of the backup in case of theft or fire.
Why is it always posed as a choice between the two formats? If your audio system is in the service of your music (as it should be, right?), and you have both LP's and CD's, then you obviously can't choose between the two, you need both a record player and a CD player. I have a fair number of LP's that never made it to CD (no 78's, though!). That's for us older guys. If you're younger and don't yet have any LP's, then yeah the question can be should you get into them and the requisite turntable/arm/cartridge/phono amp/record cleaner. New LP's cost a lot more than CD's or digital downloads, so one has to decide if the music is important enough to oneself to spend twice as much for an LP vs. a CD (or download). I find myself in that predicament often these days. And that's assuming the LP of any particular album sounds "better" than the CD, a mighty big assumption. For myself, I have to really love the music to spring for the LP, and have some reason to believe that it sounds enough better than the CD to make it worth it to me. I already have so much music in my collection that for me to want to add something new to it, it has to be mighty damn special. I just don't have the time left to waste on non-"A" music. You youngins---make the most of your years! Every minute you spend listening to the equipment is a minute you don't have anymore for listening to the music. Those are two very different things. Listen critically just long enough to find good sound, then forget about it. Take it from one who spent too much time doing the opposite!
I don't get the ticks/pops/surface noise? That would drive me crazy, but I get very little if any of that at all. I clean all of my vinyl before fist playing it, then just use a brush on the records after that. Most records are pretty much dead quiet.
I can't tell you how many people have listened to my set up over the years, and not believed me that it was a record, it's so quiet.
Buy new records, and set up your gear correctly, and that's not a problem.
Also, if you can't hear the difference, then don't buy vinyl. But I would say if you can't hear the difference, just keep your iPhone and ear buds in, you don't need to be spending big bucks on audio gear.
Dealing with the ticks/pops/surface noise/echos IMO is age dependent. Many audiophiles under 45 grew up with cassettes and then went on to cd's never becoming accustomed with vinyls shortcomings.
There are some that can't get beyond the tick/pop situation.
A friend of mine several years ago tried to go whole hog with vinyl. He bought a Nott table, Plinius phono stage, Clearaudio cartridge and about 100 records. He lasted for about a month before he walked away from it all. He just couldn't handle ANY surface noise.
The silver lining is that I was able to pick up quite a few near mint records on the cheap....;-}}
Although I have not lived with vinyl since my teenage record player days, I have listened to numerous megabuck vinyl rigs at shows (as much as 500k), and heard some of these rigs with vinyl and digital, and though the vinyl often sounded very nice, I have not yet had a religious experience.
I know what you vinylistas will say: show sound sucks, and I need to hear a good home set-up.
Well, not all show sound sucks, and if I haven't heard something that makes me say, "Ah, *now* I get it!" what would motivate me to undergo the hassle and expense?
We had an audio group meeting a few days ago. It was a tribute to a audio buddy that recently passed away and was into vinyl almost exclusively so vinyl only. One of the guys later commented to me on the ticks and pops, discrete as they were, and how it made things unlistenable for him, just couldn't get past that aspect of vinyl. So there you have a reason by some to avoid vinyl in addition to the inconvenience. I myself am waiting for the day when I listen to an orchestral recording on digital playback and the strings sound as convincing to me as they do on a good vinyl system. There just seems to be more musical relevance and natural ebb and flow to the music but we all hear different and value different things. This is clearly less about the music than how it is presented as I also enjoy digital, it can be most involving but the two formats are different enough that what may be good enough for the goose is less so for the gander.
The late Harry Pearson made this comment: "If you want to enjoy your digital, stop listening to vinyl."
As a person who has over 5000 vinyl albums in his collection and about 2000 CDs, I can say that to my ears vinyl is superior, especially from the point of getting you involved in the music from a soulful standpoint.
At this point, I listen to CDs for convenience ... and to vinyl for the music. I have a lot of mono jazz recording from the 50's. I can put Paul Desmond, June Christy and Lester Young right into the room by playing a 60 year old record that sounds absolutely amazing.
Who says all ... vinyl recordings are recorded and mastered in digital?? You'll note I deleted the word "today" from the OP's Q.
I own a whole bunch of LPs pressed in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Right now I'm spinning a Night Hawks R&B LP that was pressed in 1976, WOW!! And there's a large supply of old vinyl that's in good shape sold in a record store located about 2 miles from my house.
So the answer to the question is YES ... IMO vinyl is worth it.
"Aren't all of todays recordings actually recorded and mastered in digital? So do they convert these recordings to analog for vinyl distribution? Seems like a weak link to me for the vinyl crowd."
While it is true today's recordings are done digitally, it does not mean they are recorded at the consumer resolution level. Hi-rez professional recording can be superb- the bad rap digital gets is because of what happens when it is down sized into a consumer format. Thus vinyl is excellent at maintaining the integrity of the original. It is not a "weak link"!
Aren't all of todays recordings actually recorded and mastered in digital? So do they convert these recordings to analog for vinyl distribution? Seems like a weak link to me for the vinyl crowd. Though IMO all recordings up to the early to mid 80's should probably be best heard on vinyl. After that you can probably flip a coin. One last thought, digital is the future.
Yes if you have a collection of records. Maybe if you don't. Yes, Tostadosunidos, that is right. Everytime I hear a great vinyl set-up it motivates me to consider getting my suspension (ugh) table up and running. I was again recently remotivated and it is once again under consideration.
Twb2, If you have to do vinyl really well to beat digital, then I would rather take digital. And you are right - I did hear some vinyl in a very high end rig years ago. But that TT cost more than my room and equipment. What is the point in spending time and $$$$ if you have to beat a $$ digital rig? I would rather spend time with my family and save the $$ for music.
This is a never ending topic - but fun, nevertheless, to hear all the arguments. I hope everyone enjoys their music anyways.
I believe Brauser is correct in saying many audiophiles have moved from vinyl to digital because the current quality of digital is sufficient for them and outweighs the inconvenience of vinyl.
But now there is a battle taking place on the field of audiophile insecurity. The digital converts must now cajole and ridicule the vinyl holdouts by trying to convince themselves (the digital converts, not the vinyl holdouts) that digital is better than vinyl. This is ludicrous and reminds of the schoolyard taunts heard long ago, and, like the schoolyard taunts, will not serve to improve or advance our understanding of sound reproduction but to distract and muddy the conversation.
Dgarretson Well put.every time I feel the need to get a new power cord, interconnect or tweak, it's almost always because i've spent more time listening to digital. When I listen to my turntable, I often think to myself---my system is right where I want it to be.
Yes, it's a lot of fun. I think it sounds better, and I actually love the ritual. I even clean every record on a Nitty Gritty Mini Pro, it's almost an addiction.
I've never had a digital system, even very expensive ones, that I liked.
Heard some analog at AXPONA this year. Sounded good. But so did digital. Many vinyl demos had the typical pops in them and honestly, I did not like that. Also too much maintenance. Already have wife and 2 kids. So do not want to add one more maintenance. Rather enjoy my music and spend quality time with family.
I remember Harold Youngblood who had a shop in Oklahoma City selling a number of top brands including Audio Research, Oracle, PS Audio among others. He set up analog rigs for decades before finally stating that "digital is good enough" to end the hassles of trying to get everything right on the analog side. A man who had access to the best of analog went digital on a personal level because he was just plain tired of messing around with the residual pops, clicks, and noise that can never be completely removed.
I believe his story resonates with many audiophiles who want to focus more on the music and leave the 'fussiness' of analog behind.
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