Be honest please


Do you look down on people that participate on audio websites and brag about dumpster diving to find audio gear or finding gear at the Salvation Army?
taters
Only when they clean them up, spray the pots with de-oxit, change the light bulbs and then claim the untit has been gone through by a tech or has been restored when they sell it.
Why would I look "down" on them Taters? When I read stories of those great finds, I just think they had very good fortune, and imagine how I would feel if it was me. Things like that have happened to me in the past, at Goodwills or flea markets, but not concerning audio gear, and I remember how happy I was.
I wouldn't look down at anyone for trying to find a good value which may be within their budget. As long as it helps them enjoy their music it's all good. What bugs me is when some of these vintage gear lovers espouse their fictional beliefs as truths, like that the old heavyweight receivers from the 70's are better than today's best electronics. They may be better as boat anchors due to their weight, but most of them that are very sought after in some circles sound terrible! They say they don't build them like that anymore, and to that I say my ears are very thankful!
Taters
"Do you look down on people that participate on audio websites and brag about dumpster diving to find audio gear or finding gear at the Salvation Army?"

No
No. I would be thrilled to find one of the old classics in an SA or Goodwill shop.
I don't but noticed that lots of members do.
Just this week I scored some Acoustic Research RCA cables for $5 👍
You can look down on me. I really don't care. My last find was a Masterwork tube receiver from the early 60's. Paid $75. I put a lot of time and money into the restoration. And YES, I had a very reputable tech go through it when I was done and he did fix a couple of little things.
Now, I have a vintage piece that I use all of the time and it sounds amazing. I've put it next to extremely expensive gear that I can't afford (or wouldn't buy) and it really holds it's own.
Would I trade it for a pair of Atmasphere monoblocks? I'm not stupid!
I'd say I look the other way.
"Do you look down on people that participate on audio websites and brag about dumpster diving to find audio gear or finding gear at the Salvation Army?"

No...I don't even look down on my friends bragging about their Bose system.
Bill k,

I can't stand when those vintage guys boast how great the receivers were from the 70's. I owned some of those receivers as a kid and I can tell you they don't hold a candle to what they are making nowadays.
Not any more than anyone else. Yes, I'm only joking.
No...I don't even look down on my friends bragging about their Bose system.

I honestly envy them for being TOTALLY enjoy the sound and music with no second guess of the equipment.
Another vote for NO.
There is nothing wrong w/ finding a good bargain at SA or GW. Flea markets offer more options as well.

Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I use a vintage Sherwood 7100 receiver in my bedroom. It has a very musical tube sound and really good headphone amp. Its great for listening to CDs through my Grado RS-1s. Found the Sherwood receiver at a local thrift store, mint condition ... 20 bucks. Look down on my all you want. *lol*

Here's a Sherwood 7100-A that looks identical to the 7100. The difference is the 7100 is more tube-like in sound and the 7100-A is more solid state sounding.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherwood-S-7100-A-Vintage-Receiver-Tested-Works-Great-/141825982522?hash=item21057cc03a:g:nHMAAOSwjVVVotCC
"Be honest please"... Ok, the truth is that several people on this site have looked down their noses at people who " rummage" up a bargain!
Why I do not know as several here have said....What,to me, is more likely to be offensive are the ones that know it all when it comes to all things audio, justify the purchases they have made by scoffing at others who found the system lacking and spending countless hours on these forums NOT for the educating or education they get for free but to rather bash everyone and anyone who does not think like they do!
List your system, then I'll decide if the question is worth answering. ;)

Listening to my $5 vintage NAD 3020 and $25 vintage JVC XL-Z1050 right now.
"I can't stand when those vintage guys boast how great the receivers were from the 70's. I owned some of those receivers as a kid and I can tell you they don't hold a candle to what they are making nowadays."

Maybe they buy vintage gear because they prefer it. Also, I don't think you would take issue with someone for "boasting" about equipment you like. After all, your opinion is fact.
I don't look down on people finding gear at low or no price.
In general, however, bragging is not a pleasant behavior to endure.
Should that bother me?
Like the old saying goes," ONE MAN'S TRASH IS ANOTHER MAN'S TREASURE."
The operative word is "bragging" that triggers a certain response.
Bragging high or low is rarely an admired trait by third party witnesses to the said bragging.

Why?

(1) Taters nailed it. As in life in general, you invariably only get what you pay for.... Full stop.

(2) Then those certain types publicly "bragging" in open forum about throwing around nickels like they are manhole covers, and extending the bragging further with their solely anecdotal heavily biased personal value judgements about how great the gear performs vis-a-vis today's equipment; won't garner much support IMO. Would they repeat their dumpster diving bragging using their real names and direct contact information instead of hiding behind that central plank of anonymity provided by the forum pseudonyms..... Hmmm.... Dunno..... but I doubt it.
+1 Mofi, Brownsfan, Roxy54, and others who subsequently made similar comments.

As a sidenote that may be of interest, a very famous member of a very famous rock band (everyone here probably knows his name), who happens to have a house in my town, and whose net worth is in the hundreds of millions of dollars, has been reported in the local media to frequent the nearby Goodwill store. Perhaps he's looking for some rare vintage guitar.

Regards,
-- Al
""As a sidenote that may be of interest, a very famous member of a very famous rock band (everyone here probably knows his name), who happens to have a house in my town, and whose net worth is in the hundreds of millions of dollars, has been reported in the local media to frequent the nearby Goodwill store. Perhaps he's looking for some rare vintage guitar.

Regards,
-- Al""

That's addiction and devotion that does not depend on social status. I still also prefer to find stuff from fleamarket, estates and goodwill. Can't stop that.
I don't look down on anyone for any reason unless they're loud and obnoxious about it.
I've learned not to look down on anyone even if they are loud and obnoxious . How do I know why they do what they do?
That said, I might go somewhere else though .
+1 Schubert.
Almarg, maybe you can launch a thread for us all to guess the name of the famous rock musician! Does it rhyme with Bon Jovi?
77jovian, no it does not in any way rhyme with Bon Jovi :-) And out of respect for both the musician's privacy and mine (since I referred to him having a house in my town), I would prefer not to identify him in a public forum.

I will neither confirm nor deny any further guesses that may be presented.

Regards,
-- Al
Rumour has it that Al gets asked for his autograph more than the rock star.
I know Al has furthered my education to a greater extent that any rock star.
"The smeller's the feller!" 😉
I think AL is the rockstar actually in his secret identity of mild mannered EE. 😉
John421-If that gear(NAD/JVC) is enough for you, that's great. For most of us on Agon we value sound quality over cost. FWIW someone that frequently quotes what something costs(expensive or inexpensive} has "assclown" tattooed on the forehead!
One can wean a lot of very good sound out of NAD if done right.
Al, you are, as ever, an honorable gentleman. Though it would have been fun to learn of the whereabouts of....Smelvis Dresley:-)
my only question is, after having gone through the early hi-fi era with Fisher and Scott electronics, just how good IS a refurbished Fisher 500c tube FM receiver?
It's a great looking piece and i know the tuner is quite good at pulling in stations,
but can it compete with a "modern" tube component under let's say $2000.?
Fisher made an awesome integrated tube amp as well, but even re-capped etc.
how good would it sound through a really good pair of speakers (up to $5K for ex.)?
as for Pioneer solid state et.al. it sounded good on the record players and acoustic suspension speakers for those olden times, especially on R & Roll, with lot's of dynamics and bass, so in the proper context, YES the old stuff was quite good.
Bottom line- if it works perfectly, then it's 10X better than a finicky modern component that needs to be babied (pre-warm up, doesn't like certain cables,
is as hot as an oven to touch, needs a special stand, and has to go back to the factory after 3 years for an expensive repair, etc.).
I suspect with the right speakers i.e. High efficiency and easy load fisher amps would compete quite well with modern equivalents but most modern speakers are not so results would be compromised.
Dayglow,it takes a real man to insult someone sitting behind a computer keyboard!
ZD, Mesch, Mapman, 77Jovian, thanks very much for the nice words. And kudos to Frogman if my suspicion is correct about there being a subtle cleverness underlying his post.

French_fries, I doubt that you’ll find a more thorough take on the 500-C receiver than in this review. Be sure to read the entire review, though, including the measurements section, to get a well balanced perspective.

Also, keep in mind that the 500-C contains something like 18 or 20 tubes, and a correspondingly large amount of circuitry, which increases the likelihood that whatever example of this receiver you may acquire may have condition-related issues, depending of course on the thoroughness of whatever restoration efforts it may have previously undergone.

Speaking more generally, I don't have experience with receivers of that era, but I do have a fair amount of experience in recent decades with 1950's and 1960's separates produced by the leading manufacturers of the time, and in a couple of cases also with integrated amps. Based on that experience I'll second Mapman's comments, but I’ll add the proviso that vintage vs. modern comparisons need to be based on present day selling prices that are at least somewhat comparable.

For example, I would expect that the modern day $2K tube component you referred to would not include a tuner, and would perhaps also not include either a preamplifier section or a power amplifier section. So that comparison adjusted for comparable functionality would involve modern components costing well upwards of $2K, while I suspect that a 500-C in reasonably nice condition, or alternatively a comparable vintage integrated amp, could be found for considerably less than $1K, especially with some patience. And so if the modern component(s) in that comparison were to come out ahead (and assuming that the vintage component is in top condition), it would probably say more about the price differential than about "vintage vs. modern" per se.

In general (there are always exceptions, of course), IMO a **well restored** vintage tube component ca. 1955-1965, from one of the better manufacturers of the time (including Fisher), will handily outperform most of the solid state components that were produced during the subsequent 15 years or so. And assuming appropriate system matching will generally provide very pleasing performance compared to most modern components selling at or somewhat above the same price.

Best regards,
-- Al
"...11-14-15: Dayglow
John421-If that gear(NAD/JVC) is enough for you, that's great. For most of us on Agon we value sound quality over cost..."

Nailed it!

That's why there are three distinct strata of gear in this hobby:
Low-fi, mid-fi and hi-fi, and we all have choices as to where we choose to be.

I don't care where one chooses to dwell...good luck to everybody

BUT.... And it's a big "but".....

"bragging" or "chirping" about

(A) espousing one's heavily biased anecdotal merits about their race to the bottom

AND/OR ESPECIALLY

(B) anonymous pontification about equating the said cast-off bargain-basement pick-ups to quality-build gear performance wise or questioning the merits of why others choose hi-end quality gear and correlated price outlay

Is, simply put, (politely) hardly a badge of honour , or (bluntly) irritating.
Just never was that wealthy or foolish to spend thousands on audio equipment!But I know one thing,90% of the people who are wealthy accomplished it 4 different ways.They hit the lottery,they inherited it,they robbed a bank or spent many years cheating other people out of there money!Actually about 10% of the people that are wealthy actually earned it!If the shoe fits were it!
"Actually about 10% of the people that are wealthy actually earned it!If the shoe fits were it!
John421 (Threads | Answers | This Thread)"

And I thought cable companies make some wild claims.
John, that is not true. The instigators just make the numbers seem larger with negative press, and repetition, until people like you believe most rich are evil.

Do some research for yourself as to how much good is actually done by good men with resources.
Just don't get were people comment about all the thousand of dollars,some hundreds of thousands on what they spend on audio equipment and some pompous a...s make rude remarks on what I spend on vintage gear!
As a rule they steal 10 bucks for every "charitable " one,
US law is a "foundation " need expend only 5 % of of its assets, beats paying taxes and they are not irrevokable .
Idiotic and sophomoric comments about how much they spend on audio equipment? Yes; sometimes, by some. Who cares? There will always be idiots.

Rude comments about how much we frugal (or poor) types spend? Where, when? I've been here quite a while and I just don't see it. Even if it were true, again, who cares? Let them be idiots.

Btw, I wonder just how much vintage gear there would be out there for us to buy where it not for those with means.
"11-15-15: John421
Just don't get were people comment about all the thousand of dollars,some hundreds of thousands on what they spend on audio equipment and some pompous a...s make rude remarks on what I spend on vintage gear!"

But why make all the silly political comments? The argument for vintage gear is simple. It has a unique sound that can't be duplicated with other types of gear. Its no different than someone that buys modern tube, analog, ribbon, esl, special cables or any other unique high end components. If others don't see the value, that's good. It keeps the price down.
" If others don't see the value, that's good. It keeps the price down."

Shh. Lets not let those cat's out of the bag!!

True value becomes obvious only over time.