Another person going digital and full of questions

I don't want to rip my CDs or play any stored music files.

Why?  Your budget could get you an Innuos Zenith Mk3 streamer/server that has its own built-in disc drive so you can just feed your CDs into it and it does everything else.  Then, in addition to having a top-notch streamer you’ll also have access to all your CDs from your chair.  Not sure what’s not to like about that, but to each his own.  Just a thought, and best of luck. 

Thanks, but the Zenith would use up my whole budget, just about, and I'm perfectly content taking my CDs out of the closet and putting them in the machine.  Plus, a lot of them are my own or other's recordings, I doubt song titles titles written on a piece of paper will show up on Roon.   Even if those things worked, the prospect of feeding 1500 CDs into a slot one after another is dispiriting.

 

Streaming has become my main stream. I recommend a Aurender streamer. I own two, it is a game changer. Ripping CDs is a waste of time in todays world. I wound get a Aurender N100 to start. It should be a huge improvement. Then stop, enjoy and think about a new DAC later.

Lots of good stuff out there for that Budget.

The Lumin U2 mini I am sure will be suggested at $2.5K

The Moon Mind 2 is proly in the same class as the Lumin for $2.5K

Saves cash to put toward a new DAC.

If your open to used that opens the Door for even more possibilities like Roon.

 

 

 

You might look at the Lumin T2.  Streamer and DAC in one box. An IPad is recommended to run the Lumin app.

I just bought my 3rd Sonore OpticalRendu for streaming I have 2 DACs now and a 3rd in the future. The price of the used OpticalRendu was too good to pass up. It will stay in storage until I get a 3rd DAC.

I also owned the Benchmark DAC1 and it is the only Benchmark product I dislike. The DAC2 and DAC3 are not as fatiguing compared to the DAC1. In fact, many of the new DACs in the $500-$1000 range are better than the DAC1.

 

Thanks.  Yes, I haven't been crazy about it either.  As I mentioned, I have a more recent RME ADI-2 DAC.  I like that better, but it's in a different system and I haven't spent any time carefully comparing the two.

search bar above is your friend...

short answer, unless you are going to run roon, get an innous, auralic or lumin one box streamer/dac in your price range

Bluesound Node2 is a good starter streamer.  It works with every streaming service out there.  They have just upped their DAC, and you may or may not find it compares with your current DAC.  It will leave most of your budget intact so that you can upgrade the DAC significantly if you wish goingforward.  I would add Cambridge Audio CXN 60 for about twice the price of Bluesound.  It has a better DAC and adds Chromecast and AirPlay and really excellent Internet Radio and Podcast capabilities.

@mahler123

i agree that the node will do the job very well but op wants to spend 5 grand... what do you want him to do with the other $4500? 😂😉

Thanks for responding.  As I suspected, opinions are all over the map, ranging from  the ASR view that streamers make no difference and DACs have been solved and anyone spending more than $100 is a dupe, to the opinion that the dcs Bartok at $20k is the cheapest DAC you can get that makes music sound like music.  (but of course, not without another $10k or so of wires etc).

Then inside that difference of opinion there's "the streamer doesn't matter, spend the money on a DAC" vs "the streamer makes all the difference, get a good one and upgrade the DAC later."  Then inside THAT controversy another one about the particular DAC architectures, and inside that, of course, an endless debate about which brand or model is crap and which one is nirvana.

Anyway, I'm enjoying it all, though, I have to say, not yet very enlightened.  So thanks again.

Anyway, I’m enjoying it all, though, I have to say, not yet very enlightened. So thanks again.

op - i have had some fun on this thread you started...but here are some (serious) key points that may help your quest for enlightenment on the subject

1. it all matters, from ethernet/wiring, cabling, noise management (digital signal, power supply and mechanical), and of course dac and streamer

2. but dacs matter most ...up to a certain level (call it well reputed ~$6-10k+ dacs, then they converge in sound) - below that level, dacs sound pretty different as all sorts of cost/quality tradeoffs are being made

3. in general up to that high level of dac where sound quality converges, i would say dac choice drives sound quality 75-80%, rest derives from streamer selection and the rest...

4. but... and here is the big but... once you are into that high, truly excellent level of dacs (msb, top chord, weiss, bricasti, totaldac and so on), in order to get the most out of these, let them fulfill their potential (call it getting your money’s worth out of what you paid for that superb dac), everything feeding it from upstream needs to be pristine.... streamer, ethernet, noise filtering, jitter control, connections, computing (roon core, that ilk)... and the high level of dacs, the underlying technology matters less (r2r vs bitstream), the makers have used whatever technology they have chosen to deliver the end result (great great sound), and then it is more about features, form factor, connections...

5.  one can get terrific sound at a lower level of cost than isolated computing to streamer to super dac... but as usual, in this hobby, just like in analog, speakers, amplification, you spend alot, work hard, make great efforts for that last 10-15-20%....

good luck

@mattchanoff : how do you plan to stream? Do you subscribe to any streaming services, such as Tidal, Qobuz, and such? It looks like you have no interest in ripping your CDs and streaming them? I am assuming you don’t use Roon?

 

If only streaming from Qobuz Tidal or similar, IMO the easiest solution is a nice DAC, with built in streamer, such as this:

You will obviously need to provide internet connection to it, such as an Ethernet cable from Router or Ethernet Switch to the streaming DAC.
 

There are other brands, similar concept (I.e LUMIN others have mentioned). I agree that upgrading your DAC should be your top priority.

If you get a DAC with no streamer built in, then you can add a stand alone streamer, USB out to DAC, such a Sonore ultraRendu or microRendu (cheaper)

LUMIN U2 mini

The range of products and opinions can be bewildering so I would start from a different angle. You want something to “complement” your other sources. What does that mean? Are you talking about a comparable sound? If so then that narrows your options if you can describe the sound you’re after. You might also want to re-examine your starting point. If you want to use streaming to discover music you might subsequently buy on CD then yes of course ripping and storage is pointless. If you’re spending up to 5k though it poses an opportunity to match or exceed your current source. Whilst CD ripping is slow ish - it took me 5 weeks to rip 2,000 - it’s also fabulously worth it if you get the streamer/DAC right. It’s absolutely not dispiriting.

I bought a node 2i a couple years ago for $430 open box from Crutchfield.

I then got an upgrade kit and a linear power supply for about $250 more.

The combination sounds very good to my ears. 

 

Thanks mahughes and hilde45 for your posts.  Re the node 2i, yes I'm considering that.  I keep hearing that the bluesound stuff is "entry level high fi," but if the DAC is what's important and I use a it just to stream, and if the the power supply for the streamer is next most important, which I think is also true, then your solution makes a lot of sense.

mahughes, thanks for the question.  The "sound" I've always looked for is something like this:  1) tonality of vocal music.  On the very best systems I've heard, Leonard Cohen on "You Want it Darker" sounds not only deep and gravely but actually old.  Beverly Glenn-Copeland on "Deep River" sound like trans, with that beautiful fold contralto he had as a woman overlaid with the masculine tones he acquired after transition. I suspect this has a lot to do with handling different dynamic levels, because tonality is largely a function of harmonics, and the harmonics of a note are much quieter than the note itself.  2) separation and distinction.  When I'm listening to Trombone Shorty or Roy Hargrove, I want to clearly hear the differences in tone between the saxes, trumpets, and trombones.  In good choral recordings on great systems, you can hear the distinction between individual voices, both the unity of the chorus and the individuals.  3) coping with complexity.  On pieces like the Dance Infernal in Firebird or John Zorn's noisier stuff, or maybe Frank Zappa, you often hear a kind of confused failure-to-keep-up that's clearly an artifact of the equipment (though I think more an amplifier or speaker problem).  Slam/attack and decay. A rimshot should startle you; the opening to Born in the USA should jerk you upright a little bit.  

Anyway, that's the best I can do at describing the elements that add up to what I'm really after, which is being transported by the music.

@mattchanoff 

Your weak point is the Benchmark DAC. A few options for you to consider:

1. Sell the DAC and purchase a new Aurender A200 DAC/streamer. Their Conductor app is second only to Roon, and you are done!
2. If you keep the Benchmark, the best streamer-only in your price range is the Aurender N200 ($6K retail)
3. The best value of streamer for the Benchmark, should you choose to keep it, is the new Lumin U2 mini.

I think the Aurender N200 is overkill for the Benchmark, and monies can be spent elsewhere.

Great info so far.

My 2 cents:

I, too, struggled to understand the streaming thing.

I started with a BS Node- very inexpensive, very capable unit. Lots of connectivity to a wide range of music services, but the included DAC, though good for the price, can be improved upon.

I moved to Aurender, which had a slightly improved sound, but very limited (Tidal and Qobuz only) apps, and no means of playing on a second system. (I like to stream to both my office and the Main system).

I now use a Innuos Zen Mini for the office and an Ayre Qb-9 Twenty.

This is a pretty decent combo and stacks up pretty well to the Brinkmann Nyquist in the main system.

The Zen Mini has an optional power supply (which my dealer says can be left out when using a good Power cord like an AQ Thunder). I also added the Innuos Phoenix USB- which adds a bit of clarity.

If you buy used, like I did, you can save a lot of money and be well below your budget.

Bob

Today I received a Cary DMS-600 direct from Cary in NC that was a trade-in for 1800 delivered.  Arrived in Mint condition.  They have another DMS-500 unit for 1200 and perhaps more units available.  I've liked the Cary CD players I've had in the past 20 plus years the 306/200 & current 303/300.  I hooked it up and bought a Qobuz subscription and everything's cooking nicely.  It took me several hours but if a dumbass senior semi-computer illiterate like me can make it work - get onboard.  Cheers! 

@mattchanoff @gdnrbob 

I have an Orchid DAC with upgraded innards. I would LOVE to A/B my Node w/LPS vs. a $6k Aurender, while keeping the DAC the same. I daresay I would fail a blind test, but I'd be open to refutation. 

Anyway, that's the best I can do at describing the elements that add up to what I'm really after, which is being transported by the music.

Are all the things you described in that post what you hear on your speaker system now? Or only on your headphone system? I assume you must be getting that on one or the other or both?

I’m a heretic around here but streamers and DACs are your least important components in your system with a caveat, the UI should be something that works well and is intuitive for you to use. Not that you shouldn’t strive for good equipment but I wouldn’t obsess over them. You say you like your RME DAC and I can see that it’s a very good one, lots of use in pro audio. I’ve used a lot of UI’s and always come back to roon. It does more than most when you take in account it’s DSP functions as well as server and streaming. You can use a raspberry pi 4 as an endpoint connected to your DAC or any number of other compatible hardware. Main thing is don’t get caught up in price when it comes to DAC’S and streamers, save your obsession for things that matter like speakers and room treatments.

@djones51 My audiophile friend here in CO has a raspberry pi also, but has an excellent DAC (Holo May) and both the DAC and the streamer have LPS. He also favors Roon.

Hifi Rose RS150B

I think comparing the cost of good to exceptional digital components vs. good to exceptional analog components is something to take note of.

I would think spending $5K to $6K on an analog system would get someone good to exceptional sound that will not be outclassed down the road 10-15 years.

But I think spending $5K to $6K on a digital system will only give good to exceptional sounding for 5 years at best ....before it will be outclassed and out performed by better chips and designed audio gear.

About 2005 the Benchmark DAC1 was a great DAC for about $1K. By 2011 Chord, Weiss, Audio Note, Cambridge Audio, Lampizator and many other companies came out with exceptional sound DACs.

The Chinese gear that is coming out now, I think ,is proving that quality digital sound is changing fast IMHO.

@hilde45 ,

Though the guts of DAC's and streamers are pretty much the same, the difference between them is the software driving them.

I have no experience with Orchard, so I cannot comment on it's performance, but I will say that if you do compare your DAC paired with a BS Node, Aurender or Innuos, you will hear a difference in sound reproduction. Whether this is 'better or worse' will depend upon your taste.

Bob

In my system I have tried the micro rendu, for 3 years until really tired of drop outs, if you are very computer savvy this may suit, of course you need a computer hooked up to stream. Being frustrated I have tried the Bluesound Node, nice interface, internal DAC not great but I have several external DAC's including a denafrips ares 2, overall OK. Next was Lumin U1 mini, OK with Ares 2 but expensive and no linear power supply. Then Link Stack this sounded best, to me, but interface was a total disaster, do not buy if you are a mac user as you need a computer to set it up. Lastly has been a Lindemann Limetree Bridge 1 (not 2) virtually nil drop outs, those I get are 1 - 2 seconds and mostly likely due to my modem, I may get 1 every 100 hours, mR was several a session, it sounds really nice, totally ignore ASR review as all negative comments are based on a high distortion figure, which is actually at a level and frequency you will never hear, the interface is good probably ranks with Bluesound OS but a little behind Audirvana, of course this is personal, many people swear by Roon for instance, I have spent too many hours of my life swearing at Roon. If you like your existing DAC why waste money on another.

The current Node has an upgraded DAC that sounded pretty impressive when I heard it for an extended audition.  Bluesound stuff is far from perfect but it checks some boxes for being a good entry into streaming.  As @djones51 mentioned the UI is critical to the experience and Bluesound has one of the better ones, in addition to adding every streaming service imaginable.  It plays high resolution recordings and is good enough, especially when paired with a really good external DAC, that many people feel it is all they need.  And if doesn’t fit the bill, you haven’t blown the budget.  For people unsure about streaming, it remains a go to recommendation 

Just questioning an answer that for many here is a given.

Why is it necessary to spend $20k on a DAC before one hears music that sounds like music?  After all, it's just a box of electronics, with components, mostly solid state, and design input.

But if the proposition is correct then it underlines that the bad elephant in the small digital room is the DAC.  The ongoing failure of digital to produce a sound analogous to music is because of the fundamentally insoluble engineering problems of obtaining accurate clock timings and eliminating dither.  For some of us, converting analogue sound to digital and then back again is alchemy and thus unable to be effected perfectly.  At the very least, surely it is unnecessary if we always start with analogue sound.

The questions are:

How have some of the expensive DACS improved on cheaper ones (as most acknowledge)?

Why has it cost so much money?

Are DAC problem issues truly insoluble?

DACs are a solved problem move on to something else.

Why is it necessary to spend $20k on a DAC before one hears music that sounds like music?

it is not - musical dacs exist at very affordable levels... depends how stringent one is about defining in their own minds ’what sounds like music’... like everything else in this pursuit, superb execution to a very high standard gets expensive (see: turntables, cartridges, amplifiers, speakers...)

The ongoing failure of digital to produce a sound analogous to music is because of the fundamentally insoluble engineering problems of obtaining accurate clock timings and eliminating dither.

solutions exist

just somewhat costly to implement correctly

For some of us, converting analogue sound to digital and then back again is alchemy and thus unable to be effected perfectly. At the very least, surely it is unnecessary if we always start with analogue sound.

you don’’t seem to understand what happens in the front end of the industry -- how the music we play is recorded... that is where digitization starts - do you think modern lp’s contain music that is analog, never digitized?

How have some of the expensive DACS improved on cheaper ones (as most acknowledge)?

there are numerous posts and sources of info on what makes a good dac -

1) error free input reception/clocking - with the variety of data transfer configurations, each and their shortcomings must be anticipated and dealt with

2) clean d/a conversion including digital filtering (chose your method)

3) good analog power supply and signal delivery (think why does a really good analog linestage cost $$, do we have a $200 world class linestage? of course not...)

4) digital and analog noise management, electrical and mechanical

Why has it cost so much money?

see above

Are DAC problem issues truly insoluble?

not... like anything else, complete and high quality solutions are costly to implement

my 2 cents - others may of course differ in their opinions and held beliefs

@jjss49 

Excellent answers! 
 

Particularly the note that virtually all music starts out digitally recorded today. 
 

I have noted elsewhere my digital and analog ends have exactly the same character as well as level of detail. This really says something profound about lots of things. Both ends are composed of carefully chosen high end products… and in general in the same price range. The system is very good sounding and very musical.

@gdnrbob 

I have no experience with Orchard, so I cannot comment on it's performance, but I will say that if you do compare your DAC paired with a BS Node, Aurender or Innuos, you will hear a difference in sound reproduction. Whether this is 'better or worse' will depend upon your taste.

Thank you. I'd try it to see, for sure. It would be weird, wouldn't it, that the technologies which should be present in a streamer costing $6k would not immediately be better to my ears than a $500 streamer? I agree about taste being likely to vary within a price level -- or even two -- but a streamer that that costs nearly 12x more should....just be better for whatever it is that I listen for, no?

 

@mattchanoff, save yourself the time and frustration of hunting around and get a Roon Nucleus music server and a Chord Qutest DAC and be done with it. That way you’ll have the best user interface in music streaming software, and the best DAC at its price point on the market today. So for about $4K with decent cables and interconnects you’ll be listening to your favorite jams in no time. Everything is totally plug and play. 

@mattchanoff - I followed a similar path recently getting into streaming.  I started with a Node2i (at the recommendation of Bes at Music Direct).  It does have a well-executed user interface and lots of connections.  Works well as a streamer.  But there was a very noticeable improvement in SQ when I bypassed the Node 2i's DAC in favor of the DAC in a Cambridge CXA81 amp.  IMHO, using a Node 2i as a streamer and adding a better DAC is a good option.  But also, based on my experience, the recommendation earlier in this thread to consider a Cambridge CXN v2 streamer/DAC would probably work nicely for you, too, and save a big portion of your budget for other upgrades.  Best of luck.

@mattchanoff Ditto on the long and winding road. Someday I will sit down and post  the whole story, just not today. Many DAC's and streamers bought/sold, bought/returned priced up to 10k, auditioned 30 days at a time. I landed with a DAC  that focused on the latest in USB design, kept my desktop as the streamer and am very pleased with the music.

Thanks everyone.  @manogolf, what DAC did you end up with?  Also, interesting that you left your desktop as a streamer, given so many comments and reviews that stress all the noise and competing clocks in a regular desktop, as well as problems caused by the power supply.   

I been streaming for many moons.  Started years ago with one of the first Sonos ZP90s and streaming Napster.  Then added an external DAC.  Then had the ZP90 upgraded by Wyred4Sound.   Then got my hands on a Bryston BDP Pi to replace the ZP90.  Then discovered ROONS and ran that on a Mac Mini with the Bryston as an endpoint.  That was a problematic but the ROONS interface was a new game.   Next step was to  move the ROONS core to  a SGC  ST (dedicated device) and hardwire to the endpoint and deploy a mesh network with one of the nodes hardwired to the SGC ST.   Then upgraded the network cables.  Put in a power supply for the cable/modem.  Through the process running trials on Spotify,Tidal, and running Deezer for a few years as it had exclusive on running 16/48 on Sonos then finally settling in on Qobuz.  This is where I sit today and it is stable and sounds good.  Always vulnerable to network vagaries but is part of the game.   All along the way I been grinning like a possum eating saw briars.

Like several have said,

Get a Bluesound Node 2 for starters and see where it leads you. A lot of people love the new DAC, a lot of people use and external DAC. Some people have changed the wall wart, some people have changed an internal board and use a linear power supply. Some people have just changed the power cord. 
And if you feel need better,  can always sell it and try something else.

All the best.

JD

 

@ gdnrbob

I moved to Aurender, which had a slightly improved sound, but very limited (Tidal and Qobuz only) apps, and no means of playing on a second system. (I like to stream to both my office and the Main system).

I now use a Innuos Zen Mini for the office and an Ayre Qb-9 Twenty.

I am looking into the Aurender as well.  What Aurender did you try?  The phrase "slightly improved sound" bothers me.  The N20, which I am considering, is too expensive for just "slightly".

Thanks

 

A summary of how to digital for noobs:

step 1) Get a Bluesound Node. It’s an all in one with a better interface than most. You can get your feet wet with a minimum of fuss. It’s compatible with nearly all the streaming services so you can try them out and find your music. There are other more labor intensive options if you have a DIY bug, and better sounding ones if you’re looking for one and done. Overall, it’s a good start.

step 2) Get an external DAC. This is where the magic happens. Some research and trials may be necessary to match your taste and your existing system. Consider buying used until you narrow it down a little. Consider starting with lower end models and then moving up the line when you find a manufacturer you like.

step 3) Buy a better streamer. Now you know enough to know more of what you want. Are you going to have a big library? Do you want to try Roon? Do you have multiple zones? It might even turn out that the Node is good enough for your needs, except you’re an audiophile and probably can’t control your urge to upgrade.

step 4) Buy an expensive DAC. Now that your streamer is up to snuff, you’d be doing yourself a disservice to use a lesser model. Consider master clocks, linear power supplies, and exotic cables. You’re in deep now and you want to squeeze every last bit of possible sound quality out of digital.

step 5) repeat step 3 and step 4 as needed. You may want to alternate with improving the other parts of your system so everything stays “in balance”. Enjoy. This is now the rest of your life. 

@cat_doorman that’s exactly right, great description, you nailed it! Nice dose of humor too.

 

When starting with digital, one should start it slow, inexpensive, and built from there, once gaining knowledge and familiarity with the sound. And build from there, if the hobby still interests you, and the budget is available 

well done well said @cat_doorman

i would only add that by steps 3-4, iterating there, one should look carefully that their networking and system noise management to get the most out of their streamer and dac upgrades in their digital system, certainly if one plays with standalone dacs in the >$3000 level

@cat_doorman , thanks that makes sense to me, and thanks everyone for your input.  

I'm going to follow this advice with the Bluesound and borrow my RME ADI-2 DAC from the office to try that combination.  I'll get used to that and then compare other DACs to see if there's an upgrade worth having.

1.  Started with the Node using internal DAC...sounded great

2.  Added a Qutest (w/ SBooster) to the Node...sounded better

3.  Tried Aurender N150 with Qutest... didn't notice improvement in SQ and didn't love Aurender OS vs BluOS.

4.  Currently auditioning a La Volce S3 with Node...sounds better than Qutest/Node combo

Journey continues...and enjoying every minute of it!

 

 

 

Be always liked the less mainstream audio products like NAIM. The build quality is amazing and DAC quite good. 
I’m too cheap (says the guy w $25k in equip) to pay to download great music that I have on extensive CD collection, so I rip stuff (lossless) onto Naim UNITI CORE. Really fast, excellent integration w Naim UNITI ATOM & stand alone speakers in other rooms. APP is great, easy to use, fast. 
I understand there is a new ATOM with same general functionality but with top of line headphone amp. 
stay safe. 

Just read catdoors post. Even more credence to buying NAIM Uniti Atom or Uniti Nova.  All in one with quality circuitry & architecture. 

Wow, I seemed to have missed a lot.

In any case, let me put, in a nutshell, what I have learned in my Streaming Education.

DAC's and Streamers DO affect sound reproduction.

Remember, besides converting those 1's and 0's, it has lots of software to eliminate jitter, noise, etc. Compound that with the software to integrate various streaming services, and you have a match made in hell.

Bluesound has a very extensive list of streaming apps to choose from, and for most people it will be all that they need or want. But, when you are on the 'Audiophile' quest of 'best sound', you get caught up in the details.

As I mentioned, the Aurender N100 I had was a slight improvement over the Bluesound, but the apps are limited to Qobuz and Tidal. (Slight improvement to my ears meant a bit more 'clarity' and 'detail' YMMV).

So, let me detail my equipment changes:

Bluesound Node with Ayre Codex- good, easy to set up, nice sound.

Aurender N100 with Ayre Codex- more clarity and detail, but not earthshaking difference over the Node.

Innuos Zen Mk3 with Codex- Definite upgrade, sounds more 'alive'.

Innuos Zen Mk3 with Ayre QB-9 Twenty- (Ayre had an upgrade program so I bought a QB-9 and had it upgraded to Twenty status). Now we're cooking. Things seem to be dialing in nicely. More clarity, richness/.depth.

Innuos Zen Mk3 with Brinkman Nyquist 2- Wow! My first thoughts were:

This sounds like vinyl. Lots of subtle qualities that I don't seem to have the proper words for. It just sounds right.

 

Okay, yes, I fell down the rabbit hole.

But, I did see the reason why some spend so much money on their streaming systems. Yes, it does make a difference. 

So, what would be my recommendation? 

If you have a budget of $1-2K, get the Bluesound Node and an Ayre Codex (used).

If you have a budget of $4-5K get the Innuos Zen Mini or Mk3 and the Ayre QB-9 Twenty

If you have a budget above that, then you can pick and choose whatever you want.😉. But, using the Brinkmann Nyquist would be on my short list.

 

 

And, to those who say;

Why not just play vinyl?

I respond with:

I grew up with vinyl. 

I remember all the pops and ticks, the warped records, having to get up every 30 minutes to turn the thing over, and the space required to store them.

Streaming allows me to listen to just about anything I want to listen to, when I want to listen to it, and let's me listen to new artists/composers that I would be hesitant to buy an album unheard.

 

One of my longer posts, sorry, but I am hoping my experiences will help others make their decisions. (And, though I do give specific recommendations on equipment, I do so only from my experiences. There are lots of other manufacturers that I am sure are just as good/better).

Bob

 

 

Don't buy a combo streamer/dac. Dac technology is still advancing and you want to be able to swap it out when something significantly better comes along - and it will!

Building a great digital system requires that you start with a great front end (garbage in / garbage out). Forgoing discussion of routers, modems, switches, Wi-Fi, etc, your streamer makes a big difference. But, streamer technology is pretty stable, so if you get a high quality streamer you can likely move up to any future new/improved dac WITHOUT COMPROMISE. 

The Lumin U1 mini is a very solid choice. Even better is the original Lumin U1 with its separate linear power supply. I think The Music Room has a pre-owned U1 for ~$4500(?) (MSRP ~$7500). It's a top-shelf unit- Roon ready, and exceptional connectivity options allowing for future upgrades s to your system. 

Get one of these and you can concentrate on the rest of your system journey. But always, always optimize your front end first if you expect to hear the full impact of your downstream changes.