Vandersteen Forum

BTW, I then switched to B&W SCM-1. All I can humbly say is WOW!

I haven't gotten my robe yet if that's what you mean.

Speaker design and opinions about speakers (sound quality) vary greatly. To say the least. What you like or don't like about the used 2CE may be that you don't care for the sound, you didn't have them set up properly, they were damaged , they didn't have enough power driving them or so many other factors. The 2CE has a stellar reputation that goes back decades and Richard is a well respected speaker designer. Glad you like B&W but someone who replaced those same B&W speakers with Klipsch, Revel, Sonus Faber or another brand might say they are inferior??? To each his own...

brand specific sites tend to accumulate fanboys and girls... helpful for tips if one has committed to that brand, perhaps less useful otherwise 

that said vandys and b&w's are at opposite poles of sound character... so if someone likes one it's hard to imagine they'd like the other

I’m on my 2nd pair of Vandy 2CEs... the latest Signature III. I wanted the Treo CT to replace my 20 year old pair of Vandy 2CEs but couldn’t spend $9k. I guess you could say I like the Vandersteen sound, and Richard has sold over 100,000 pairs of the 2 (that success has generated some envy among rivals, I suspect). So, there are a lot of happy V owners, many of whom have moved up to the Treo CT, Quatro CT, Kentos, 5’s, and the amazing 7. I have a short list of other brands which I would consider if I had $20-40k to spend, of course. Or, if I could afford 2 good systems, there are also some 2-way monitors that I would own too for a different experience.

It’s not a cult... they just make a great speaker (and imo they are a good value) if you like the sound. I have not found a US-made full range floorstander that comes anywhere close to the 2CE in performance for $3400. Not even close. They really shine with true bi-wiring and excellent amplification with enough power. I’ve heard them with a $20K Audio Research stack and they shined, rising to the challenge.

The 2 and the Treo are on this list:
50 Greatest Bargains in High End Audio

The OP was on the Vandy forum and posted some very critical posts-mostly to the effect of how can the speakers be redesigned. He was told in no uncertain terms that he could modify the speakers to his heart’s delight, but the forum would not be party to it. Hence, he is on Audiogon trying to make the Vandy Forum sound ’cult-like’.

Far from it. The forum is for Vandersteen owners to share experiences and learn things they might not have known about. Yes, most forum posters are Vandy fans, we are those that find time and phase correct speakers to provide that ’je ne sais quoi’ that other speakers don’t. If you find ’25 year old Vandersteen technology’ to be so bad, why waste your time complaining?

@2psyop , posted a great reply, as did the other repliers.

@geworthomd ,

Sorry the Vandy’s didn’t light your fire, but at least you found something that does.

And, to answer your question:

Yes, it is just you.

Bob

@gdnrbob 

👍🏼

Garbage in = Garbage out, some speakers are designed to be more accurate(polite) these speakers are heavily influenced by source, amplification, quality of recording, and room they are placed in. Some speakers are just more forgiving making everything that passes threw them sound good or better with little thought to room placement or room treatments the SCM-1 sounds like, pun intended, to be a better fit for your room and your gear "Cheers".

Rebuttal:  i did find the Vandy site rather homaging like the above member stated. The question I asked I already wrote about in my lead. Everything was, “If Richard replied” and bastardizing the 2Ce and paying homage to the original manufacturer. I stand by my honor. 
Ya, I guess to expect that from one of those sites. 
My amp is a Cambridge Azur 851A. It was a recent upgrade from McIntosh MC2100 connected  to MG3 Magnaplanars.  I wanted some more spl’s and the Maggy’s only went so loud. I am glad that some members like their 2Ce’s and sure, maybe mine are damaged. Remember the 1970’s speakers playing Rod Steward from a record player. The mid and the highs sound like that. There isn’t any stage presence, imaging or separation. Idk about such things. Fast forward to the Nautilus and everything above is present. I just dont know if there was something wrong. The matter i was on that other forum was, as said above, to source a crackling 25 year old woofer. If the 2Ce’s are not damaged and that is just the quality of a 25 year old speaker then replacing the (cannot find) woofer with something from Denmark, Britain or USA that is 2022 makes sense. Well, I got back a WWIII response about sacrilege to the manufacturer.  I did not expect that. When I updated my 10 year old Dell computer to a wide curved screen I didn’t get such a response. Yes, live and learn. I will remember about the manufacturer specific sites and the way the stories from them are spun (see above). 
 

The members from this site really helped me and I mean a lot. I was going down a rabbit hole with Pandora -Bluetooth - Rocketfish - McIntosh MC 2100. I guess lossless has been out there for 10 years but I must have had my head in the sand. I changed so much now. It cost a bunch but wow and thank you is the minimum I can say. I now purchased the Cambridge 851A and love it. I bought the Sony NAS HAP Z1ES. It is a good NAS but not really a streamer despite being advertised as one. I then bought Cambridge CXN v2 streamer - dac combo. I dug out my Denon CD player and plugged it’s XLR’s into the 851A and fired up the 2Ce’s. You know the detail above. I bought the Nautilus and now I can hear every instrument. There is a real left right difference hearing as well. One music piece has a male base singer. I can hear his vocal cords like base strings. Not vibrado, I mean the individual grrrr’s ( the r parts). 
i would not have entered this journey without the generosity of some time on behalf of a couple of members of this forum. U know who u r and I thank you for that. Cheers

Bob, seems others have that demi-god experience with manufacturer specific sites as well. I’ll take my humble lumps when deserved but I’ll also stand my ground and rely on my honor if ai am attacked. Isn’t that the way boys are raised by their fathers to be men?  Mine is long since passed away but I would like to think I still honor him. I was an electrical engineer before being a chiropractor and spine surgeon. I designed the electrical /lighting for the baseball stadium in Calgary and am the 2017 ABPS Board of Orthopedic Surgery National Physician of the Year. All of those don’t mean a darn thing on an audio forum. I just believe in The Golden Rule and I roll where men are men and only boys are cry babies. Finish strong and only winners get to say they did their best. As an engineer and a surgeon may I tell u that in both professions we always look to what we could do better next time. I grapple and there is a really good young teen. He and his expert father review the videos of every match. They never watch the ones in which he wins. You guys that have helped me through this audio quest (no pun intended) give honor to The Golden Rule. You are welcome at my campfire any time. A special thanks to BKSKE. Anyone want to buy some 2Ce’s really cheap?

Rebuttal:  i did find the Vandy site rather homaging like the above member stated. The question I asked I already wrote about in my lead. Everything was, “If Richard replied” and bastardizing the 2Ce and paying homage to the original manufacturer. I stand by my honor. 
Ya, I guess to expect that from one of those sites. 
My amp is a Cambridge Azur 851A. It was a recent upgrade from McIntosh MC2100 connected  to MG3 Magnaplanars.  I wanted some more spl’s and the Maggy’s only went so loud. I am glad that some members like their 2Ce’s and sure, maybe mine are damaged. Remember the 1970’s speakers playing Rod Steward from a record player. The mid and the highs sound like that. There isn’t any stage presence, imaging or separation. Idk about such things. Fast forward to the Nautilus and everything above is present. I just dont know if there was something wrong. The matter i was on that other forum was, as said above, to source a crackling 25 year old woofer. If the 2Ce’s are not damaged and that is just the quality of a 25 year old speaker then replacing the (cannot find) woofer with something from Denmark, Britain or USA that is 2022 makes sense. Well, I got back a WWIII response about sacrilege to the manufacturer.  I did not expect that. When I updated my 10 year old Dell computer to a wide curved screen I didn’t get such a response. Yes, live and learn. I will remember about the manufacturer specific sites and the way the stories from them are spun (see above). 
 

The members from this site really helped me and I mean a lot. I was going down a rabbit hole with Pandora -Bluetooth - Rocketfish - McIntosh MC 2100. I guess lossless has been out there for 10 years but I must have had my head in the sand. I changed so much now. It cost a bunch but wow and thank you is the minimum I can say. I now purchased the Cambridge 851A and love it. I bought the Sony NAS HAP Z1ES. It is a good NAS but not really a streamer despite being advertised as one. I then bought Cambridge CXN v2 streamer - dac combo. I dug out my Denon CD player and plugged it’s XLR’s into the 851A and fired up the 2Ce’s. You know the detail above. I bought the Nautilus and now I can hear every instrument. There is a real left right difference hearing as well. One music piece has a male base singer. I can hear his vocal cords like base strings. Not vibrado, I mean the individual grrrr’s ( the r parts). 
i would not have entered this journey without the generosity of some time on behalf of a couple of members of this forum. U know who u r and I thank you for that. Cheers

Oops wrong button. Sorry for the duplicate

(as an engineer) we make mistakes. We all do. That is just part of the journey in this often crazy and mixed up thing we call “life”

what i've long admired about the "vandy" sound is that they seem to commit sins of omission only. i can live with those. the ones i heard [in an acoustically perfect room, meaning large] were not the last word in definition but they made everything [including old recordings of mediocre sound quality] sound at least tolerable if not 100% shiny. their imaging quality [head-in-vise] was better than average, i could easily get a palpable sense of depth on good stereo recordings. mono recordings came from a very narrow "wodge" between the speakers, that when i moved my head back and forth, smoothly transitioned between the speakers with no lumpiness. i just wished they sounded like that in smaller rooms. 

As a vandersteen owner I will admit there can be a cultish quality to vandersteen enthusiasts. What I will also say is that if you liked B&Ws better that your probably not someone that digs the vandersteen sound. B&Ws tend to be very bright to my ears. Yes, they will sound glittery and detailed but after some time they start to fatigue my ears. They tend to pair well with really tubey warm stuff like Macintosh. For me the vandys are more natural, more real. But this is just my opinion. You have your opinion. Ultimately , in hifi, we each have our own. It doesn't mean something is good or bad, its just our preference. I loved my old 2ce and love my quatros. Vandersteen for life!

I once criticized the frequency response of a past version of a Vandersteen model. Someone called dad to tell on me, which was weird. Poor Richard. 

Lol 

rmdmoore,

My Vandersteen history goes back to 1991, when I bought a pair of 3A's. At that time, I had the  honor of meeting a very (as I) young Richard Vandersteen. He actually helped load them in my Suburban. The 3A's were upgraded to Signature in 1997. All Vandersteen's must be setup properly and take considerable break-in time  - a properly proportioned listening room also helps! 

I agree with you! My 3A's are very natural sounding and pair well with my old MC240 and C11. I've tried several other high watt amp/preamp combos but keep going back to the 57 year old Macs, eventhough, Vandersteen recommends 100W per channel! Simply put, it's a sound that suits my musical tastes, much as a vintage Oregon Pinot Noir. When I want to really chill-out, I put an LP on my old Thorens TD160, turn up the volume and immerse myself in my private concert hall!

BZ

Bordeaux or Burgundy Cab myself but I get your drift. WWIII was with the cult more than the leader. Still, there might be something wrong with my 2Ce’s. A few of the members are well pleased. I cannot listen to these and I will bet a Vandy owner cannot either. I will plug them back in and troubleshoot when I get some time. I have to replace that blown woofer anyway. I bought the woofer from Denmark. We would put much larger magnets into an 8 inch woofer in 2022. 

I have a patient who says that when he smokes his medical marijuana and sits back his music sounds like a half a million dollar system but only paid $800 for it!

My first Vandys were the 2CE Sigs.  I don’t know how old they were but I found the sound absolutely gorgeous.  They were the “comfort food” of the speaker world to me.

I totally get when the manufacture’s sound isn’t to one’s liking, but the way you describe them, I’m guessing they are totally f’d up somehow.

So you went to a forum for one particular brand of speakers and they defended and talked them up? Wow. Shocking. 

+1 @gdnrbob 

If your speaker is broken, send it back to Vandersteen to fix it.   Even though its an older model, it will produce very musical sounds.  The Vandersteen website can be intimidating....many on that site have systems that approach a million dollars.  Richard will talk to you for advice and help restore your speaker to new aural delights.  Call him.

O man... the more he posts, the more his credibility suffers.

@stringreen 

Richard will talk to you for advice and help restore your speaker to new aural delights.  Call him.

Richard responded to the OP’s questions on the forum. 

As far as the forum members, which I am one, being intimidating, nothing could be further from the truth, but we do believe in keeping our Vandy’s original, and setting up and using as designed.

And no, I don’t believe there is any member that has a million dollar system, including Richard. Heck, not even @tomic601  😁

Hey bkeske.....you seem a bit touchy.....if you have a system on which you have spent 2 dollars ....you are approaching a million dollar system.  If you actually read what I wrote it was complimentary to the Vandersteen brand.

No, I’m the opposite of ‘touchy’. I tried the best I could to help @geworthomd on the Vandy forum. Others did as well.

Not really worth my time but…….of course we are enthusiasts on the Vandy forum. Most of us seek to learn and help  most of the time, but not always..because we are after all just human, do get gruff.

Lets get somebody’s back and brain back into alignment… How does it go “ physician heal thyself “.

Lets start with 2022 Magnet size…. Here its a bit helpful to have actually paid some attention in Electrical Engineering class. Wondering what’s more important? Guass in the gap or magnet size, or those mysterious Thiele small parameters ? Wondering how that jacked magnet works with a filter network w antitanking and driver resonance control features. Also wondering how those 2022 woofers work with the acoustic coupler ? A mass loaded narrow bandwidth active driver acoustic couple is a pretty rare bird. Not something a catalog engineer will come across often… How will those jacked magnet 2022 woofer blend with the all important midrange driver in a design that pays special and costly attention to time alignment?

Lets be brutally frank, you couldn’t even find the RMA form or sock replacement links and videos on the website.

You got excellent advice; Fill out RMA and send it along w damaged or suspect driver to Vandersteen for repair. Get repaired driver back, setup 2’s per the manual and evaluate sonics. If they are not your cup of tea, sell them.

You got some blunt feedback about what you paid for your 2’s, got your manliness offended round the campfire….and are now here…whining…

Audiogon ; What would you make of a pair of Vandy 2ce on Ebay for $3k and $1k shipping ? Not many valuation arguments to be won round the campfire citing that…

It was hardly WW3…. 

But……sure, i am a cult member…no wait, i guess it’s cults plural.

Quad, Thiel, ATC, Apogee, Totem, ARC, NAIM, Brinkmann, HRS, Aesthetix, Lyra, Triplaner, McIntosh ( 1961 ), Herron

well at least not at the Elk and Pheasant and Steelhead campfires i frequent…

oh yes and Vandersteen, just two pair and the amazing liquid cooled hybrid tube and solid state high pass M7 amplifier…

@bkeske God, i hope my wife doesn’t read this thread, i’m not even close to point five $ M

"In 2022 almost anyones speakers sound better than 25 year old Vandersteen technology."

I guess I should have known we might be dealing with a bulb that is not the brightest on the Christmas tree.

I bought an older pair of Vandersteen 2Ce and did not like them. Found out one woofer was crackling (what I did not like was poor tweeter and midrange). I went onto the Vandersteen forum to see if changing a component or two would better the sound than 25 year old speakers. In 2022 almost anyones speakers sound better than 25 year old Vandersteen technology. 
The replies raised my eyebrows. I was just wondering if anyone else has had any experience with that forum and did they find it cult-like or is it just me?

My set of 2C are about 38 years old now, and they sound fine.

In addition to the other posts about the RMA, your saying that you spent $4k for a used set that and being told that it was too much probably was not well received.

I am on a few of the various cult fora… Here, Vandy, ASR, and others.

I am not sure about your chiropractic work, but you did seem to put a few people noses out of joint.

Anyone want to buy some 2Ce’s really cheap?

Where are they at, and how much?

"In 2022 almost anyones speakers sound better than 25 year old Vandersteen technology."

And… there are many speakers that do not sound as good.

One would think that starting with more knowns would be an easier starting place, but it is amazing how many modern speakers have cabinet issues and a host of other kindergarten problems, that were known and solved 40 years ago.

The 2C are not perfect, but their flaws are strengths are pretty well known.

reading through all these posts on this thread, must say a few elements are surprising/amusing

-- if someone knows they have a blown/malfunctioning driver in a well respected speakers (even a NOT well respected one), why would they not have that repaired first and foremost -- before making ANY assessment or comment?

-- why talk anywhere about redesigning such a speaker without ever hearing it working as it should be, much less go to the brand followers’ forum to complain?

-- all this from a purported MD/medical professional?

man o man...

"i drove around in this porsche i just bought with a flat tire, geez it just drives like crap, so i went to the porsche forum, asked people can this car be made to drive better if i went to jrz coilovers instead of the stock bilsteins... and man, those people had nothing useful to say, just told me to fix the flat, don't modify anything, and wouldn’t engage on anything else.... what jerks..."

"i drove around in this porsche i just bought with a flat tire, geez it just drives like crap, so i went to the porsche forum, asked people can this car be made to drive better if i went to jrz coilovers instead of the stock bilsteins... and man, those people had nothing useful to say, just told me to fix the flat, don't modify anything, and wouldn’t engage on anything else.... what jerks..."

 

Pretty good analogy....

B

"i drove around in this porsche i just bought with a flat tire, geez it just drives like crap, so i went to the porsche forum, asked people can this car be made to drive better if i went to jrz coilovers instead of the stock bilsteins... and man, those people had nothing useful to say, just told me to fix the flat, don’t modify anything, and wouldn’t engage on anything else.... what jerks...

I think that it is even worse than that @jjss49, as the OP was suggesting replacing the one driver with a JBL… so it would be like running the Porsche on 3 Michelins and 1 Pirelli.
But maybe he was talking about using all JBLs?

In your car analogy, I guess that the JRZ coilovers would analogous to the crossovers? So I think one may want to tune the suspension to the tyres?

I cannot see any easy way to do that. I only see finite options:

1. The RMA approach.
2. Going full DIY and wiring each driver in an active crossover scheme.
3. Or totally reworking the passive XO from scratch.

#3 is way beyond my skill.

I feel for the OP, as I would be upset if I spent 4K on used speakers and a driver was blown. And knowing I could have got them brand new for $5350.
But that decision process was not the fault of the V forum.

Ok, time to revert on some of these.

First, some people here were some of the people who did help on the Vandy forum. I note two above who are a bit like rolling up to a red light and getting the finger whilst his window is rolled up and his door is locked. Pretty safe out there, isn’t it?  Lol. Hey, I can hold my own so I’m going to joust back. 
First, whose speakers are they?  If they are yours or Richards, can I buy them?  If I own then then s&&t tsm f)&6? “lp might be in order. Real property is only laid claim to by the owner. Who gives a mouth piece the right to stick his comments into someone else’s business?  If you are the type of guy who can judge what others do and figure we should all do what u impose your will to do then maybe join another country. There are lots of socialist countries that I am sure you will be welcome as u impose your will as you do whilst telling people what they should do with THEIR speakers that they bought with their own money and not yours. 
 

BSPKE is a nice man. He offered good advice and was a gentleman. 
 

on that note of MY speakers, again, isn’t it my choice whether or not I send them to Vandy or put a JL Audio 8 inch that I already own?  These are MY speakers and I can burn them or paint them purple because I own them. If u are worried about the next guy down the line who might inherit them then what do you say, maybe I will burn them just because some poor righteousness slob wants to impose his will and judicious sense of destiny?  They are speakers for god sake, nothing more than wood and metal. Give me a break!  Have u not have more important socialist ideals to work on?  Maybe there is s Save-the-Whales club for you or join a citizens patrol or something lol. This is truly comical where someone can be righteousness enough to protect-the-Vandys like protecting the Purple Spotted Woodpecker!  
 

MY speakers were $800 plus $400 for shipping. That isn’t as good as one guy who paid $175 but better than the eBay guy who wants $3000. It was Sir Vandicream that was the one who said I paid too much for my speakers so he himself does not value them at $800. Why the heck should I fork-out $400 to $500 to send them to the Vandersteen Factory (including 2 way shipping?  Is it not my choice?

Sir Vanderscream said himself that they were 25 year old technology. I could not and still not find a 2Ce woofer but I bought a model 2 off of eBay for $40.   I may glue toy dolls on the front for my daughter, why?  Because I own them and this is America!  If I want to mix match my BmW 650 Alpina (sorry no Porche here)  isn’t it no ones business but mine because I OWN IT! hahaha

Lastly, wow, not paying attention in electrical engineering class. I guess all of those buildings, schools, office buildings and the baseball stadium and hospital just got built by themselves? Lol. What do you do for an electrical engineering profession?

(continued). Let us look at some of the fancy words that that Sir Knows It All tries to dazzle us all but has no idea what they mean as he throws out his big words. 
“Gauss in the gap or magnet size”.  Answer:  One gauss is 1/10,000tg of a Tesla (my most favorite inventor of all time). It is a unit of magnetic field. The magnetic field is proportion to so many things such as gap, size of the magnet only when compared relative to the exact same type of magnet but there are many types and sizes of magnets. The first class is a permanent magnet, also called a ferro-magnet but unlike the “ferro” meaning “iron”, other permanent magnets may be made of nickel, cobalt, neodymium or a whole host of others. Some of these latter metals require less size to produce an equal magnetic field. The next class is an electromagnet. Here, the magnet stops being a magnet when the current in no longer inducting a magnetic field. 
How about matching the magnets dipole moment?  Hey there is another couple of big words you forgot.  Hey, let’s throw atomic currents out there, used in magnetic modeling and yes that is studied in class and I was awake. I even passed but I did not see you in class?  There are many other types of magnets that aren’t important in this discussion. 
Let’s pull this together now. We have an coiled bit of (copper often but not always) wire. We call this a voice coil. There is a bobbin (has a diameter and a stack, plus or minus cooling holes. height, shape and 100 other things) to make the size, a lead in wire, wire gauge, number of windings and the strength of the current making the inducted field. Since it is alternating current we must also look at the wave. It most often is a sine wave but need not always be.  Each end is connected to electrical current pos and neg and in alternating a/c current for  home speakers. Next, we have a magnet with dipoles. If, for example, the magnet’s north is facing the coil first and then the coil is energized then there is an inductance in the coil that attracts or distracts the magnet.  The wave is subject to phase shifts distortion and about 200 other things.   Next, we have the lead out wire. 
Think you have this all engineered now?  No, Klippel nom-linearities have to be accounted for and modeled. They progressively increase the more the current increases. 
There are a thousand other things that come into play and are $5 words like surface field, residual flux density, BH Curve and hysteresis curve  There is no such defined term as Gauss Gap but I assume he is either referring to the voice coil gap or a measurement of the field strength at some location because gauss is a measurement of field strength and nothing else  We can measure it is various ways where the measurement itself may or may not change the field strength or pattern or even the pattern  Why does all of the above matter?  It doesn’t matter at all unless you are a factory and want to design a speaker  I can guarantee you Sir Vandescream did not engineer his own magnets and voice coils and does not know how to manipulate nor model the above variables  There are so many many other things like a cooling fluid medium, initial moment of inertia for the paper, shape of the cone, edge roll off and the list goes on  Again none of this matters  All that matters is you buy a speaker and try to match them in pairs for the given frequency response you want  Heck, leave the rest to the factory  

So, in my case I want to replace a woofer and no “Virginia, there isn’t a Santa Clauss” meaning that the variance and tolerance of the above isn’t going to ampunt to a hill-of-beans in a 25 year old set of 2Ce’s  in fact, the dynamics of the speakers just got better over time with the rare earth magnets and the cross overs, not to mention the electrical signal itself  So, do I care about matching the “scratchy” sound performance of a 25 year old pair of speakers?  I don’t because the new one will sound better and imaging isn’t important in a woofer  

Jacketing (covering) a speaker magnet?   Anti-tanking and resonance?  We are talking about a woofer, Sir Knows-A-lot  Who cares whether or not a drum’s resonance is produced at all and especially to match the other in a 25 plus year old speaker!  The freaking JL Audio woofer of 2021 will blow the other woofer away with it’s clarity, imaging, signature and all of the other words we use to describe our fine wine aka listening experience  

One last note to Sir Knows-a-Lot  Phase relationships in a woofer and how the speaker will interact with a passive or active(Vandy) accessory component in the exact same size and shape woofer box?  Common are you kidding me?

Think about the frequency vs wave length of a woofer  Who cares if a woofer is in-phase only to the terms of spl and a sub does a much better job  The size and shape of the room, carpet, cloth furniture, equidistance of the speakers and the things every audiophile on this forum knows about make a whole hell-of-a-lot of more important stuff than trying to match phase OF A WOOfER, of 25 year old vintage as well!

I read this same guy talk about speakers being in-phase when talking about mid range drivers and tweeters…nothing but crap  20 to 20,000 hertz, right   Let’s just take 10,000 just as an example  Every second 10,000 sine waves are arriving to your ear   That is 29,979, 245, 800,000 nanometers in a vacuum  If one of the speakers is one inch farther away at 10,000 hz do u realize how ignorant it is to try to put those two signals in-phase?

Ok, these are the basics  There is so much more and I admittedly specialized in industrial electronic engineering and not audio engineering  Idk how to switch a carrier wave not manipulate the voltage to current timing to keep those together as the wave propagates in the microvoltages  i am not an electronics engineer  What I am is not stupid enough to throw out a bunch of $5 words that Idk anything about as I attempt to match the sonics of a 25 year old speaker that is lousy by todays standards  

I think I may have other things wrong with these speakers  They may have bad crossovers  I just don’t think that anyone, even on the Vandy forum, could listen to these and like them  They aren’t making good sound  Do I want to add those ?crossover ? replacements to my $400 plus repair bill (includes 2 way shipping) when I send these back to the Vandy factory?  The answer is of course not  It doesn’t make financial sense  These are not like restoring the Mona Lisa and again, even Sir Vanderscream said they aren’t worth $800  

Yes, I did learn my lesson  Yes, Sir Knows-a-lot was one of those that felt like a WWIII hit-and-run bandit, coward or whatever u want to call it  a spade is a spade though  What I did not do was go on a specialty speaker site and ask about how to make MY 2Ce’s into PS Audio speakers  What I did want was advice what to do for a rattling woofer when I cd not find a used one.  I did not know, beforehand, that there even was a rebuilding department at the Vandersteen Factory  i wanted advice not to criticize or be criticized  I did not even get to be able to ask forum members experience trying to diagnose what may be bad crossovers or maybe cracked speaker wires or connectors  It is weird that the same sound is from both speakers though  

if anyone reads Sir-Knows-a-lot above and his $5 words that he knows nothing about, that is why he only threw out the terms but said nothing about how to manipulate them when talking about cross-matching two speakers  It is precisely this chap whom I am talking about when I spoke of cult-like and paying homage to a self proclaimed speaker-god  

I hope u see that I am not afraid to go toe to toe for a good fight if I am insulted or spoken down to  That should not have to happen when a guy is looking for advice  No, this OP was not proposing “major changes”, even to 25 year old speakers that HE owns  I just wanted advice what to replace a blown woofer with when I could not find one and knew nothing yet about a rebuilding service at Vandersteen, j&*k!

It is possible that it might have been your tone that set people off?

As an idea I’ll add “a #4” to my previous list of 3 finite possibilities:

1: Speaker driver:

What I would suggest is to get a Parts Express DATS. Remove the driver from the speaker that works. Then once you have measured its T/S parameters, you can find a good candidate for a replacement.

Whether what matches best is that JBL, a ScanSpeak wu18, or something else like a Peerless or Seas, is unknown… but at least it would be a way to select a driver that does its best to work with the existing crossover.

2: Crossover:

You could move the crossover left to right to determine whether, in fact, it sounds the same in the existing good speaker.

MY speakers were $800 plus $400 for shipping. That isn’t as good as one guy who paid $175 but better than the eBay guy who wants $3000. It was Sir Vandicream that was the one who said I paid too much for my speakers so he himself does not value them at $800. Why the heck should I fork-out $400 to $500 to send them to the Vandersteen Factory (including 2 way shipping? Is it not my choice?

I think your post over there may have been interpreted as you spent the $3000 and $1000 in shipping… which was at least how I had read it. Maybe other’s did not come to a similar conclusion.., “I dunno”.

BSPKE is a nice man. He offered good advice and was a gentleman.

Agreed… and I’ll strive to try to be more like @bkeske and Gentleman Jim @tomic601 .

Best of luck with the effort.

It is possible that it might have been your tone that set people off?

duh... 

my oh my...

Thank you so much. Sometimes the older speakers or Danish speakers are not exactly 8 inches. That was an original thought. I’ll take your kind advice and thank you, Sir

OP.

With your last rant, what was your intention? Head off global hunger, promote world peace, further humanity, or what???

You seem to have a severe case of "little man syndrome."

Taking haymaker swings at forum members here will get you nowhere. 

Are we being trolled by geoffkait?

Every second 10,000 sine waves are arriving to your ear That is 29,979, 245, 800,000 nanometers in a vacuum If one of the speakers is one inch farther away at 10,000 hz do u realize how ignorant it is to try to put those two signals in-phase?

Something geoffkait would say right?

Just buy the 2CE Sig III and be done with it. Enjoy the sound. The Vandersteen speaker brand and 2CE model would not around for decades if it were not for the fact they are well designed and sound very good even in 2022.

I guess one could argue they are a better speaker engineer than Richard and replace his woofer with a Bose woofer and not ever hear the difference?

The OP likes his B&W speakers, so leave him alone.

We tried to help him, but he had other ideas which are fine and dandy. As Sir Vandicream said to you, as well. 

I just don't get the reason for the issue here.

Yes, they are your speakers, and you are free to do as you wish to them. But, to go on a forum for that brand and expect others to agree with your desire to 'modify' them, and then lash out against them when they disagree, seems a bit strange.

Bob

Restore them to their original condition and then decide.
Vandersteens need a lot of power, by the way. Very sensitive to room placement.

I've had 2CE, 3A and now have Model 5s which are breathtaking, according to most people. And me. 
I called Vandersteen with a question about replacing the batteries in my crossovers and I was told someone would call me back. About 45  minutes later, Richard Vandersteen called me. I was thrilled.

Vandersteen speakers have a sound. I love it. Some people don't. That's why they make different speakers. It's all good. 

Have fun!

As a public service announcement:

Pretty much any driver in a Vandersteen speaker built since 1977 can be rebuilt or replaced by contacting the factory in Hanford CA. There are a few exceptions to this, the model 4 ( note NOT the same as Quattro ! ) , and the custom matched drivers in Treo and up. Treo and up definitely require a call to factory. For a Model 2, as was the DIRECT input given by the inventor, “send the suspect driver in w RMA form, and we can rebuild it.”

Lets also take a moment to clear up some factual errors;

Yes, Richard is extensively involved in designing elements of drivers, including many unique drivers partially fabricated in CA by Vandersteen Audio. He ( not Scanspeak, etc ) holds the Vandersteen unique patents. For fun have a look at the Vandy website, the 5A and 7 mk2 use a Vandersteen designed push pull titanium subwoofer driver, lots of tricks there… Vandy owns the tooling to produce it.

Hopefully all are enjoying the music and beating the heat !

back to my day job improving Quantum computing…. well, for a few hours a week…anyway….

thanks jim, well said, well timed comment... 

 

Lets also take a moment to clear up some factual errors;

I’m unsure whether the OP cares about facts or factual errors.

Yes, Richard is extensively involved in designing elements of drivers, including many unique drivers partially fabricated in CA by Vandersteen Audio. He ( not Scanspeak, etc ) holds the Vandersteen unique patents. For fun have a look at the Vandy website, the 5A and 7 mk2 use a Vandersteen designed push pull titanium subwoofer driver, lots of tricks there… Vandy owns the tooling to produce it.

The OP was stating how easy it would be stuff his drivers in there, and end up with a better speaker

And as I recall RV told him it is a free country and if he wanted to make better speakers he was free to do so.

So I am doubting that the OP is overly enthusiastic about sticking to facts.

Every second 10,000 sine waves are arriving to your ear That is 29,979, 245, 800,000 nanometers in a vacuum.

I hate to be another bearer of facts, but light travels at ~3^8 meters/second.
Giving all the significant digits of resolution and precision is great… but let’s dumb it down to approximations.
- Light travels about 1 foot per nanosecond.

However sound is known to travel only at the speed of sound... which is not the same as the speed of light.

Sound travels about 1 foot per millisecond in air… so it is a million times slower than light, and sound also doesn’t travel well in a vacuum.

I believe that using the correct speed of sound may be an important concept for designing speakers, or improving upon your model 2 speakers.

(Maybe the 2C has the C part referring to the speed of light?)

Just wanted to mention that YouTuber Steve Gutenberg said he'll be reviewing some Vandersteen speakers (didn't say which ones) later this year. Should be interesting. 

He mentioned that he liked previous ones and has known the owner for years and years and years. 

Any forum has its regular Joe’s, don’t worry, just keep at it.

every,forum I started at, was hazed, belittled, poked fun of for punctuation, the brands I like,  their just having fun, just keep writing there, you will fit in.

 Hell,avs, Conrad Johnson, Cerwin Vega, audio circle, all had some smart butt things, it will pass. Enjoy. Cheers.