SOTA vs VPI (or stick with my Rega?)

Go for the VPI Prime. It does everything that you described that you wanted 

I just upgraded my old SOTA Star III to a Nova V and love it to death. GREAT sound. But then my buddy has a VPI Scoutmaster that he loves; great value too. And a Planar 3 is a pretty decent deck itself!

One thing I can't live without anymore is a hold-down system for edge warps. You'd have to save up a bit longer and move up to a vacuum clamping Nova with the SOTA, or just go for a refurbished Star (which SOTA sells). The VPI you could add a peripheral ring clamp as budget allows.

The SOTA look is a bit more personal and potentially striking, as you can choose the wood. Some of the exotic choices are stunning (highly recommended). The VPI looks cool but won't be as eye-catching as a nice SOTA.

Here is another option. This dealer has a return policy incase you are not happy with it!
http://hifiheaven.net/shop/Technics/Technics-SL-1200GR-Grand-Class-Direct-Drive-Turntable-System?gcl...
Also comes in black!
http://hifiheaven.net/shop/Technics/Technics-SL-1210GR-Grand-Class-Direct-Drive-Turntable-System

There is a like new Scoutmaster for sell on Canuck mart with the 10 inch arm for around $1,600.00  american that would be very hard to beat.

@gritter2 I

In my opinion, there is another option you might consider....

Search around for an early (v1 or v2) VPI Aries or Aries Extended (MUCH preferred).  t might take a little while since, even used, these early Aries are in pretty high demand.   Put the Aries on Bear Claws or Stillpoint cones. (hard isolators, not rubber or soft material)  If the motor ends up a little too low, put it in a paperback book (will isolate vibrations from the motor.).  As an option, place the entire system on a large, thick maple butcher block.  

And yes, @tooblue has found a gem.  The SCoutmaster for $1600 is a great deal.  Be prepared to put that table on Bear Claws or Stillpoint Cones in the same way as the description of the Aries setup.  VPI cone/feet don't work very well.

@gritter2 - having gone down the road you are considering here is a link to all of the mods I completed on my Rega Planar II

http://image99.net/blog/files/category-turntable-mod0027s.html

Basically - I have replaced EVERYTHING! - the only thing left is the cover and the on/off switch.

It sounds fantastic, but it was a very long and $$$ journey - however I learned a lot along the way

Would I do it again? - NO

I've not heard VPI or SOTA TT's, but I think I might lean towards those brands

Another fine looking TT is the Music Hall mmf 7.3 - I think this would get a lot of my attention

Having said that - the best Rega mod's I have tried (in order) are...
- Audiomods Classic II tonearm
- ISOsub GT 2 S UPGRADE SUB PLATTER  Upgrade
- SRM/TECH Acrylic Platter  Upgrade

Hope that does not muddy the waters for you :-)

Regards - Steve

I went from a Rega Planar 2 with a DV 23R to a SOTA Sapphire III with a Magnepan Unitrac I and another DV 23R.  I've never looked back.  Never had to add any tweaks; the suspension is nearly faultless and the build quality is superb.  Playback is neutral and fully detailed.  I use the Reflex clamp which seems to do pretty well and went with a Vinyl Flat instead of going to a vacuum system.  Way less expensive and much more compact;-)

SOTA is great to work with, too.  When my Unitrac died, they made it very easy and inexpensive for me to refurb the table to take advantage of the Graham Phantom I'd decided to go with.  Got the series V platter and bearing, a custom arm board and new suspension.  With the DV XX2 Mk II, I feel like I'm extracting just about everything that's on the vinyl.

You pays your monies and takes your chances, but I strongly recommend the value proposition that SOTA delivers.  That said, both VPI and SOTA are outstanding tables and you won't go wrong with either one.

Good luck & happy listening!

@effischer
Yes that’s definitely an important consideration you've pointed out. I’ve had tables on very suboptimal stands/floors before, and the 4-point SOTA suspension works wonders to prevent all kinds of problems you’d otherwise suffer. In my home, the ClearAudio decks basically require a high-end rack under them.

The SOTA suspension is not like those lightweight, way too unstable/springy suspensions you see in other tables - it’s much better.

You’ll be a bit more limited in what arms you can mount on suspended tables, but the SOTAs can handle a bit over 2 lbs, which covers the vast majority of arms. My Fidelity Research FR64fx (pretty heavy) makes the cut, but the 3 lbs FR64S monstrosity doesn’t.

@effischer @mulveling What are your thoughts on the Origin Live Silver MK3A tonesarm? This is currently being bundled with a 2016 SOTA Sapphire V. Seems promising. 

I also just found a used VPI Prime (single owner trade-in) through a dealer at a fair price. So both options are on the table.

Thanks again for all your input. Appreciate it!

I don't have any experience with the Origin tonearms, so can only offer one observation.  The JMW arm on the Prime has VTA on-the-fly.  I consider this the single most important feature any tonearm can have.  Even a minute adjustment can make a huge difference in the quality of playback.  This is because no two records are precisely the same thickness; that makes any fixed VTA adjustment an inherent compromise.  I have fooled around with the VTA feature on the JMW and found it to be smooth, easy and repeatable.  Precisely what you want.  The VTA on my Graham is a bit too stiff for my liking, but holds the setting perfectly and really lets me dial in the XX2.

I'm personally pretty picky on this stuff, so may not be a particularly good touchstone for you on certain fine points.  I believe that the cartridge has to compliment the speakers, the tonearm has to allow the cart to perform to its maximum capacity and the table has to spin reliably, precisely and silently.  Bear in mind that the beauty of tables like SOTA and VPI is that you can change arms & carts freely to find the synergy that pleases you.  I like the SOTA approach to the table, but given the choice you've presented, I'd tend to favor the VPI because of the arm that's on it presuming everything else is equal.  

Note that the JMW is not an easy retro-fit to SOTA; requires modification of the plinth.  Not something I'm in favor of.  That means VTA-OTF options for SOTA are reduced by one very good tonearm manufacturer.

Like I said, I'm picky so these things are important to me.  Consider how important they may be to you.  None of this stuff is cheap and you want to make sure you get something that makes you happy for some time to come.

Why not stay with Rega and move up the ladder since you like the Rega sound. You don't mention your budget but I am sure you know Rega makes wonderful turntables way above the Planar 3.

All the tables you mention are fine. I love the sound of my Clearaudio Performance and if one day I want to improve on that I will stay with Clearaudio. I know their design philosophy and know how to sit them properly.

Whilst technically i agree about the VTA setting you have to ask yourself this question: Are you a Lover of Music or infinate tinkering?
There is no right or wrong answer. That just identifies you as a listener.

I have a Lyra cartridge which is super fussy about set up. I have set up VTA (by ear !) using one of my faviourite records and have left it at that.

Of course every record is different from the others in terms of its thickness but when i place it on my table all I want to do is listen to the Music.
    

My VPI has served me well for years, since I upgraded from my old Ariston deck...very happy with it.  Good luck.  

@mgolpoor I’ve thought about climbing the Rega ladder, but speaking to my local dealer it didn’t sound like there is a huge jump between the current Rega P3 and P6. 

You also make a good point about just enjoying the music vs tinkering. I don’t gain much pleasure from tinkering, so that’s something to consider. 

Other used TT that are in my price range ($2500-3000) include the Acoustic Signature WOW XL, but I’ve heard it it extremely neutral and not much fun. I enjoy listening to records, and would hope my next upgrade would add more depth to that experience. 

I hasn’t considered Clear Audio, but will look into their line up further. Thanks!

If you have a good deal on the table for a VPI prime, I would go for it. You will not regret it . Great table and great company with a team behind it that has the best customer support I have ever experienced.  They really stand behind their products 

Soundwatts is correct. Almost any VPI turntable is the best choice.
The older tables are excellent as is the prime. Their product support 
is excellent and their are many options for small upgrades that improve performance. One of these is the dual pivot assembly which I would recommend you purchase for the arm.

I owned the Marantz TT essentially made by Clearaudio with the Vituoso Wood cart. I never liked the magnetic tracking approach it had. Moved to a VPI Scout 1.1 with a Soundsmith Zephyr. I remember clearly first record I played - I was surprised at how quiet the background was and very little surface noise coming from an old well-played lp. The uni-pivot arm is great as it is unreal how it can track a warped record - with clamp on of course. I upgraded to a MIMC Star cart and was more impressed. If I upgrade it will be to another VPI table with on the fly VTA only, not even up for debate. You can’t go wrong with VPI for the money. I too am a music freak and not a tweaker. 48 years of collecting rock, jazz, blues, and the music that does not fit in categories! 

The "Delux Groovetracer", tone arm wire, acrylic platter, plus the heavyweight will take the Rega to another level that rivals the Sota, but that would also include a new motor for the Rega.

In my opinion....

Spending more money on a Rega? Trying to turn the proverbial sow’s ear into a silk purse? Ain’t gonna happen. Throwing good money after bad. Rega performance is very limited compared to VPI tables or SOTA tables.

According to someone who owns both, his Rega is quite comparable to his Sota after all the tweaks, and he's posted that on this forum.

I have one of the original SOTA Saphires, bought new in the 80's. It has always been a great machine and still is, IMO. Only problem or upgrade I've ever done was a new power supply and clamp.............No experience with other TT's, never felt the need. ACOS Lustre GST 801 and yes, it does have on the fly VTA, rare at that time I think.

I can't say how much better the new models are, but after 30 years +/- I'm sure they are................Easy to set up, easy to use, great suspension, easy to upgrade, I just never bothered..............Can't go wrong with SOTA, although there are certainly others out there as good or better, depending on your bank account.

Oh yeah, and they're HEAVY.........mine weighs as much as my Bryston 4BST amp, about 45 pounds.

Oh yeah, and they're HEAVY.........mine weighs as much as my Bryston 4BST amp, about 45 pounds.

Thank you all for the input. It is all super helpful.

Regarding VPI, why do some people dislike the unipivot? I don't have experience with anything other than the Rega RB330, so would be helpful to hear the positives and negatives of the unipivot design.

Also, with the VPI Prime, what interconnect do people recommend using? Is it important for this match well with the phono stage? Would be interested to hear thoughts/suggestions on this and what others are using. Thanks!!

Not to make things more complicated, but there are a couple Rega RP8 and even an RP10 on the used market that are in my price range.
Any thoughts on these versus the VPI Prime? Or is the Prime just in a whole other ballpark?
Thanks!

Buy the RP 10

In my opinion, get the Prime.  Hands down.  No rega can compete with it.  Or spends thousands on upgrading a rega to still fall short.

Ok, so the Rega and SOTA seem to be off the table for the time being.
Does anyone have experience with the Acoustic Signature WOW XL? This would be with a TA700 tonearm. Roughly same price point and is with someone locally.

I hopefully will have a chance to hear both the VPI Prime and Acoustic Signature head to head...

Check out Anvil tables out of Michigan.
You don't hear much about them but very nicely made.
I want one!

You would like the RP10.

@orpheus10 @bobheinatz  I'm starting to reconsider the RP10.

Is this a considerable step up from the RP8?

Yes it is, and a certified best buy,

Useless you want to spend uber dollars that would need tweaking the RP10 is a killer.

the rega rp8, rp9 and rp10 are great, get one.

I have a Sota Star Sapphire with an SME V arm. Love the whole thing. The vacuum hold is amazing and the speed is dead on accurate. 

But the number one selling point for me is the suspension. I can literally hit the shelf it sits on with my fist and it will not affect playback at all. This was crucial as i had it on a credenza for years, which was on our wood floors. Kids running around would cause the needle to jump all over the place. Now I could bounce a basketball next to it with no effect.

Not taking a side in this choice, but as someone who's been around a lot of Rega and VPI rigs, I'd say they sound far enough apart it's likely you will strongly prefer one to the other.  And in my opinion, the only person who can determine which side you're on is to give a decent listen to each

I own both - VPI TNT 6 and Sota Cosmos. Both are good, but for long term support VPI is probably better.

Thank you all for the input/recommendations. I do enjoy my current Rega (2016 Planar 3) and wonder if the step up to RP8 + Dynavector 20x2 will be the sweet spot. 

I had a chance to hear the VPI Prime, and did not like the sound compared to the Rega. There is a used Acoustic Signature WOW XL in the mix, but wont be able to audition it before purchasing, which concerns me. 

If anyone has experience with the WOW XL would be interested to hear your thoughts! Thanks. 

Buy another Rega...Install a Groovetracker subplatter...Listen to records...Zenjoy life...

I'd say pursue the Rega RP-6, as it offers a better tonearm, and subclass. As far as altering its overall sonics by using an acrylic platter as opposed to the glass one it was voiced with, never really stuck me as the way to go......., I'd instead address the issue of tonearm wiring or isolation footers, as well as install either Verizon of the Autorium 23 LP mat before being sidetracked.
I find Rega's from a particle standpoint to offer better value when replacing their motors units as well, look into pricing said items, and it becomes clear, while some tend to think that costlier units are the norm...., look at tables like the Nottingham's, where spinning the platter once or twice offers enough torgue for any sized record out there, be it 180 to 200 grams, mass isn't everything......., but it does count as far as ones amp or speaker stands go. To my way of thinking........, if so many American made wares are so great?, why then have imported wares been with us for what seems like forever?, it's because besides looks, so base their purchases upon the items abilities to play notes properly, no?.

I know they still make VPI
tables.  SOTA is long gone
 Or a take over now 
The 3rd table from the UK   they make better tables in the UK at same price point.   So  VPI  wins + USA made.    ONLY   IMO
  

SOTA was purchased by employees several years ago, and is doing fine right now (Kirk passed, but Donna is still owner). They're even working on new product development, including a series increment to the current table lineup, and a high-end rack. Still USA-made. Far from "long gone".

They did a bang-up job on my Star/Nova rebuild this summer. Check out their Facebook page. 

@mulveling @ryskie I’m interested to hear your thoughts on the SOTA sound. I was about to pull the trigger on an RP8, but the SOTA Sapphire V (2016, non vacuum) seems like a great deal on a solid TT. Again, the arm pairing for now is Origin Live Silver MK3 (which SOTA offers in their recommended pairings).

Would be interested to hear what you think SOTA’s strong suits are? The suspension looks awesome as does the build quality. I’ve just not had the opportunity to hear how the SOTA sounds.

Thanks!

@gritter2
It’s always very hard to separate a table’s sound from the arm, cartridge and phono stage combination. But I’ve used the SOTA over 10 years, with several various cartridges and stages. The FR64fx arm has been a constant, though. The Origin arm has rigid bearings too, which I feel is important.

With my Star/Nova deck, it’s never been hard to achieve a gorgeous analog sound that makes you feel like throwing away all your digital gear & music. If I had to assign a sonic influence to this deck, I’d say that it would be a little on the side of rich, voluptuous, romantic. You will get very robust bass and dynamics out of this. It will lean more towards "organic" and "PRaT" oriented, rather than techno-analytical. Yet it certainly doesn’t have a strong coloration, since I’ve had various Benzes, Koetsus, and Ortofons on this deck, each with their own distinct character shining through.

The only minor sonic issue I ever ran into was with an Ortofon Winfeld MC, that had a bit of searing treble - which was probably due to interaction with the heavy tonearm and my speakers at the time, more than anything else. The Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Kontrapunkt "c" and Koetsu stones have all sounded outright "magical" on this deck, with proper supporting gear. The various Benzes (Glider L2, Wood M2, Ref 3 Wood) have also sounded quite excellent.

I also love my ClearAudio Master Innovation (I previously also had the regular Innovation Wood), but you have to work so much harder to isolate those decks. And so much more $. Sonically, they’re also more on the technical side of analog reproduction. And it’s extremely impressive & enjoyable too, once you get it all right - but the SOTA has a more traditional analog sound.

@mulveling thanks for your in-depth response. It is very helpful and much appreciated. All that you mention about the SOTA is what I am looking for in a TT. I am not interested in analytical listening, and do not shy away from the warmth of vinyl as my SS amp is incredibly neutral and they seem to balance each other out nicely. 

@viridian thanks for your feedback as well. I am interested, what about the SOTA Sapphire do you like, personally? I think it’s telling that you still own one.

@viridian The Rega has better PRAT than the VPI? I hadn’t heard that before. Very interesting.

Can you elaborate more? (Not hating, I am in the market and listen to punk and faster music so PRAT is important to me).