Sad news - Jay sold his new Rockport Lyra speakers
Just released, after five months of mystery, new speakers that replaced the Wilson chronosonic $350 mil speakers, that were announced with all kinds of fanfare just a few weeks ago are on their way out.
So the $200,000 Rockport lyras, we learn in a dramatic and solemn 90 minute video, were not acceptable so they had to go.
Not everyone has a forum that allows disposal of speakers as does Jay. How incredibly difficult it must be for anyone to make such a serious investment and then be disappointed. And the rest of us who didn’t buy the speakers at a discount will somehow come to terms with a $50-$80,000 loss and that’s just downright depressing.
How does one buy speakers in the vast six digits range? And then how difficult it must be to admit to yourself, and then to your wife, that you’re unhappy. And then how does one muster the courage to go on and purchase another incredibly expensive speaker. Personally I found buying every audio component incredibly annoying and challenging yet you carry on hoping the prize at the end of the unpleasant journey Will be worth it.
Personally I think all the time about upgrading my speaker and then when I see things like this I’m at a loss as to what to do. These types of miserable experiences should be Hidden from public view as it impacts all of us. It’ll be a while before I get over this, maybe I should begin focussing on my thoughts to upgrade my pre-amplifier or replace tubes on my amplifier. Or maybe I should just learn to be satisfied with what I have.
You nail the North American rythm obsession : speed...
You just forgot that the time it takes to know a component inside our system"room is way longer than few months generally ...
It does not concern break-in and our perception and tastes mainly not even the sinergy level between the pieces...
It is related to all modifications and optimizatioon process and with the devices and methods we will use to put this new pieces in the acoustic whole... What i called embeddings of a piecve of gear in his three working dimensions : electrical, mechanical, and purely acoustical working dimensions...
It takes more than a few months , sometimes more than a year to figere out how and why with what...
It is incredible to view recviewers go from one piece to another : they wrap off , plug to the wall , in the best case they wait few hours break-in ...
After that another pieces is reviewed, nevermind if they keep the same room and keep the same other pieces with no new embeddings controls for the next piece...
This has nothing to do with an informed audiophiles buying something because it is necessary knowing why, and takes a year to figure out how to put in in the acoustic, electrical and mechanical whole of the house/room/system/ears in such a way that the resulty will be unique and non identical to any other house/room/system/ears experience... With a balance with all acoustics factors implied ...😊
I like reviewers for their human aspects and few bits of "limited" information they may provide... Thats all ...
They sell they dont explain what to do really ... Even the better...Why ?
Because no sellers will explain why no piece of gear is a solution by itself tto the final acoustic experience results...
How to sell a costly piece of gear if it is not a perfect one perfect solution ? If this piece of gear can be replaced by a less costlier one but which will be better embedded in the house/room/system/ ears-brain perceptual fields ?
at best they will speak of necessary synergy and his electrical conditions thats all ..
You cannot trust reviewers not because they are not hones, but because they are like the average consumers often and their solution if we are not satisfied with a piece of gear is always the same : upgrading ...Because for them the costlier the better to reach optimal acoustic experience ... 😊
Living and working in Europe 25 years ago I saw a different perspective. We Americans do not get a lot of vacation time so Americans typically will tour Europe by visiting one city per day or so. Europeans saw that as shallow, that to experience a place one must “live” there a while. Spend a week or two in a place to get to know it. Easier to do with a 6 week vacation schedule. But the same applied with eating out. It took me some time to slow down and enjoy a two- three hour dinner in much of Europe. It was ironic when I moved back to the US and got annoyed by the frequent interruptions by my server and felt rushed having to leave the table after an hour.
Same thing with a stereo system. It takes some time to really get to know a component- especially a speaker. Sure, the wrong component could become apparent rather quickly and a correction is needed. Maybe that is where buying used is an advantage- much less break-in time needed. I know I have been in a bad relationship with a stereo component before. Breaking up is hard. I went through those stages: This is not what I was expecting. Maybe I can make this work. This isn’t working. What do I do now? This thing has to go. What do I replace it with and how will I know it is not another bad decision? Why am I in this hobby? Is it me? And so on. It can be rough.
Living and working in Europe 25 years ago I saw a different perspective. We Americans do not get a lot of vacation time so Americans typically will tour Europe by visiting one city per day or so. Europeans saw that as shallow, that to experience a place one must “live” there a while. Spend a week or two in a place to get to know it. Easier to do with a 6 week vacation schedule. But the same applied with eating out. It took me some time to slow down and enjoy a two- three hour dinner in much of Europe. It was ironic when I moved back to the US and got annoyed by the frequent interruptions by my server and felt rushed having to leave the table after an hour.
Same thing with a stereo system. It takes some time to really get to know a component- especially a speaker. Sure, the wrong component could become apparent rather quickly and a correction is needed. Maybe that is where buying used is an advantage- much less break-in time needed. I know I have been in a bad relationship with a stereo component before. Breaking up is hard. I went through those stages: This is not what I was expecting. Maybe I can make this work. This isn’t working. What do I do now? This thing has to go. What do I replace it with and how will I know it is not another bad decision? Why am I in this hobby? Is it me? And so on. It can be rough.
I don't know anything about Jay, but I know the type.
Successful. Wealthy. And never (seemingly) happy and/or satisfied.
You see the same thing with guys who cycle through cars like they're paper towels. Lambos. Ferraris. McLarens. Etc. They're always chasing something and they never seem to find it.
Basically, they're trying to fill the existential hole inside them with stuff. Except stuff never fixes that issue.
And, of course, the influencers need continuous content. And likes. So that makes things (arguably) even worse.
I’ve had my Cornwall IV’s for almost 2 years now (next month actually) and I have no plans to change them. It’s been a year since I did the big mods (crossover parts upgrade, cabinet/horn dampening, and internal wiring).
I’m NEVER parting with them. Yes, I have a YT Channel but don’t consider myself an "Influencer" (1.5k Subs in almost 5 yrs. "on the air"). I tend to cut the crap and only review what I buy or what equipment/Speakers friends lend or give to me. I don’t reach out to manufacturers and only Schill for Companies & their products that I’ve purchased and developed relationships with.
And I call out YT’ers on their BS (usually a certain fellow Canadian only).
I’ve met Jay at the Shows and drank with him during a late night TAD session a year ago at FLAX. A very nice Guy who’s not full of himself in person.
He is an honest person as much as many others reviewers...
Reviewers sells but they can do it in a way which is informative or not...
Then i think you are right ...
Let's assume Jay is in the pockets of the high-end brands and isn't out of pocket for any costs. Then what's the incentive for him NOT to do Steve Huff puff-reviews where everything new is the best thing since Sydney Sweeny's cleavage?
If he makes mistakes vis a vis gear choices that don't jibe with his evolving tastes, the insinuation is he's the Wizard of Oz and the curtain is torn. How about he's just a human being making a play to do something he likes to make money, thus sometimes he gets mud on his face, but more often than not if you listen carefully to what he says about everything from speaker impedance and placement issues to a DAC or server's software UI or a preamplifier's synergy with other components in his system, you get high-end gear insights you won't get anywhere else.
I just don't get the animosity Jay seems to engender in some people, it seems less to do with him and more to do with the Audiogon community.
Let's assume Jay is in the pockets of the high-end brands and isn't out of pocket for any costs. Then what's the incentive for him NOT to do Steve Huff puff-reviews where everything new is the best thing since Sydney Sweeny's cleavage?
If he makes mistakes vis a vis gear choices that don't jibe with his evolving tastes, the insinuation is he's the Wizard of Oz and the curtain is torn. How about he's just a human being making a play to do something he likes to make money, thus sometimes he gets mud on his face, but more often than not if you listen carefully to what he says about everything from speaker impedance and placement issues to a DAC or server's software UI or a preamplifier's synergy with other components in his system, you get high-end gear insights you won't get anywhere else.
I just don't get the animosity Jay seems to engender in some people, it seems less to do with him and more to do with the Audiogon community.
I love it @corelli. That's what the music is all about. The other special thing about Tales of Mystery and Imagination for me is I got that Mobile Fidelity version by trading the shirt off my back for it. I've told this story before, so i hope I'm not boring anyone.
It was 1994, I was out in the desert doing hot fuel testing with the Ford team. I drove to Las Vegas that afternoon to take the redeye back to Detroit so I had some time to kill. I found a stereo store there to browse around in. I was wearing my team golf shirt with the Bosch and Ford logos on it. It was pretty smelly and dirty after being in the desert all day. So I walk into the store and the owner right away tells me he likes my shirt. He was a Ford man and he sold Blaupunkt Radios (part of Bosch). I spotted that Alan Parson's Mobile Fidelity record on his rack and offered to trade my golf shirt for it. He agreed so I went to the car and got another shirt to wear out of my suitcase. He got a smelly shirt and I got a Mobile Fidelity record. I smile every time I put that record on.
@tonywinga I smiled when I read you comment on Alan Parsons. I was probably 16 when I bought that album and thought this guy was a genius. Those were the days. Albums that were woven together using all kinds of instrument but also had a theme connecting the songs together!! Wow. Fast forward to last night. What album was I enjoying on CD? Alan Parsons Eye in the Sky. Still sounds great! The CD has cuts that my LP doesn’t and is worth having. I enjoyed all of his works.
“Influencer”. That there’s funny.
Influence who - those of weak mind and low self esteem? Probably not the group who considers dropping a quarter Mil on hifi speakers.
@emergingsoul "We’re drawn to him to salivate with all the gear around him and yet we walk away feeling unclear about what is it that makes it so special"
Who's the "we" . Speak for yourself. Whine by yourself
Jay’s very first post on A’gon started out with a listing of what seemed like 100s (exaggerating) of amplifiers he had tried. Briefly explaining what he did or did not like about them. A number of these were actually reasonably priced gears.
As time marched on he specialized in reviewing very expensive equipment and made no excuses about that is where his interest lies and that of his expected client base.
His gear is all too expensive for what I want or need, and so I don’t give the same attention as I do videos of less expensive equipment. But I do respect all the hard work he has put into his gig and wish him success.
It is hard to stay focused on reviews of equipment that you know you will never own. Like the Stereophile magazine of old where most of the equipment reviewed back then cost about three months pay if not more.
Jay reviews interest mostly people able to afford it...
I am in no need for these gear pieces... I listen sometimes his reviews for his character...😊
Also i am curious about his journey...
he is paramount example of an audiophile who buy stuff so pricey, he cannot modify them in any way ...😊
For a long time he does not even adress the room ...
my journey is complete opposite : i bought good low cost gear i optimized and modified with complete success and magical results because i also adress the room first and last... As did old audiophiles long time ago it seems ..
I do not solder though... I study basic acoustics not electronics design... I trust engineers more than myself about that ...
I would just like to see a more helpful showcasing and informing people about the gear he’s talking about on his website.
Every once in a while there’s a morsel of value it’s very limited.
For some reason he’s buying really really expensive gear doesn’t really explain it very well. You can’t just keep saying oh I just paid $100,000 for a amplifier that means it’s gonna be wonderful. Maybe explain what the heck going on with it.
We’re drawn to him to salivate with all the gear around him and yet we walk away feeling unclear about what is it that makes it so special. And with that very expensive turntable how many records does he own? I don’t understand I guess I’m not smart enough.
Whatever we may think about his reviews and knowledge...
For me Jay is honest as are the most honest reviewers... Many are honest...
I say that even if i am not interested by high end very costly products for myself...
We cannot ask to a reviewer what we can ask from a long term user of a product .Reviewers must sell at the end of the day with + or - honesty...We must read here between their lines...
Consumers buy and plug ..
Audiophiles modify,optimize,tweaks and learn acoustics once synergy is reached and do all there is to do to make upgrading not so much tempting and necessary ....
I dont need to listen to my gear anymore because i listen music now... Thanks acoustics basic... 😊
The cement foundation he has under his listening space can’t be the greatest. He had a problem with an amplifier that had to be returned because the speakers he had could not be biamplified.
I don’t understand why he begs for people to like his videos so much. Yes he may get a few thousand views but it takes in excess of 100,000 views to get anything meaningful paid from YouTube. He’s not making any money from YouTube and maybe he makes his money by charging fees to all those people who sign up for private messaging. Or maybe he gets a lot of money from speaker manufacturers which is hard to believe. I don’t follow the business logic of what he’s trying to do. He works really hard but can be misleading at times. I think after getting rid of the last speaker his credibility is unclear.
It’s fascinating and even more fascinating to read the comments he gets. I learn a lot by reading comments as there’s a lot of people out there who really know what they’re doing.
I guess you haven't heard by now that Jay does not buy most of his stuff he gets it from dealers to showcase so it's not costing him a thing, so it's not poor baby Jay lol, and just for your knowledge his name is Dave don't know why he doesn't want to use his real name, I know someone who knows him and he gave me the scoop and he told me that Jay does not pay for almost all of this stuff so you don't have to feel sorry for him
For someone as me or a regular dude , learning concretely by hearing them , what a pair of speakers can do in a room for your specific ears with specific gear , ask for a very long time of experiments in acoustic to finetune and optimize the speakers...
Then plugging them in a wall and reviewing them appear to me preposterous... Only reviewers must do that...
I also feel very sad for Rockport. This clearly is not helpful it makes me question whether I wanna learn more about this speaker company. One bad piece of negative news can devastate a company. It makes me wonder about the relationships between a quasi dealer and a manufacturer. I thought Rockport was supporting jay with marketing support and then for Jay to turn tail and say he don't like the speakers is just odd.
How much someone spends on something is relative. It may seem like a lot to some and not so much to others. I think that everyone has made a purchase they have regretted. It’s just viewed differently depending on one’s perspective and disposable income. It’s ironic how some people aren’t satisfied with a multimillion-dollar yacht and end up buying several. One for each coast or continent, while others would be totally happy with a little aluminum boat and a trailer to go fishing with on the weekends, or others with owning their first pair of shoes or being able to afford their next meal of rice and beans. Who’s Jay anyways and why do you care? Not your $!
@OP Sad news? I don't think you believe that for a minute. Interesting premise for a post though. :-).
Seriously, all of us on this forum have been confronted with gut wrenching sadness in our lives at one time or another. Jay's speaker purchases don't even move the needle.
Jay's business is to keep gear coming in for review which requires he cycles the old gear out. What would he have to say if he built the "perfect" system, and then stopped at Nirvana? Who is going to tune into his channel for that?
That's a lot of capital tied up in those speakers, I'm sure his wife is fine with the decision. Any losses on individual components are either illusory or a cost of doing business. If he's still in business, then he's doing something right. And that includes pushing gear out the door.
The rule of thumb I heard years ago: If your music collection is worth more than your stereo then you are a music lover. If your stereo is worth more than your music collection then you are an equipment junkie. The extreme is owning a million dollar system and just a handful of records. I’d be ok with that only I love music too. I miss shopping for records in a record store. I’d even be happy to shop for CDs.
One of my favorite memories is hearing Alan Parsons Project Tales of Mystery and Imagination in a record store in 1976. I bought the 8 Track tape. Yeah, I’ve come a long way. I have a Mobile Fidelity Version on vinyl. I said that only because I need the validation. :)
It’s abundantly clear that Jay didn’t take advantage of Crutchfield’s generous 60 day return policy to "demo" those speakers. Had he done so, he would have gone for something less pedestrian and would have Chosen Wisely
@emergingsoul "These types of miserable experiences should be Hidden from public view as it impacts all of us. It’ll be a while before I get over this,"
The horror of it all how will any of us sleep at night.
In accounting there is a term called "Materiality" which means a sum of money so small that it's not worth accounting for. For me it's the penny that dropped under the car seat. For Coca Cola Bottling it's the entire state of Michigan's bottling operations.
The same goes for HiFi swapping. I have a buddy that changes gear like I change socks. His business earns him $2mm a month before taxes so with $66,700 a day coming in it would take him all week to buy a set of Chronosonics.
Jay's John is to buy expensive gear, report his impressions, sell, and buy more. That's the cycle. I'm sure that most of three time he loses money on the purchase and sales. He got a good price for the Kyra. So... As he said, it's a business.
For the influencers, changing the gear is the show. There may be a stable of other gear in the background that is kept as a reference for comparison, but the "system" that gets new releases has the new gear.
I can’t imagine changing speakers so often. I have had three pairs of speakers in my stereo system since I started down the high end rabbit hole in 1988. That’s right, about 15 years per speaker pair with almost two years into my current speakers. In each case the move to a new speaker was not made without considerable thought, deliberation and consideration of speaker type. And in each case I found that changing speakers was a major disruption to my system. Ie. Amps, cabling and even front end components had to change as well. I had to redo my room acoustics for my latest speakers as well as change out my cabling and digital front end. My current system is so satisfying now, I dare not change a thing. It took me almost a year to find the perfect position in the room for my current speakers- no different than the last two pair. So I am of the opinion that it takes a fair amount of time and adjustment to get to know a speaker and what it can do. It is the most complex component in a stereo system. The speaker interacts with the room and with our ears. The amps, cabling and front end affect how that speaker interacts with the room. Speakers are chameleons. Their character changes with the room acoustics and with the amps driving them. Best of all is how they just disappear when set-up properly.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
