with great results. And they also work on top of components, too.
Reading that first post all I could think, imagine how much better that guys system would sound if he put all that effort into trying springs and LISTENING to them instead of wasting it measuring dead weight.
Oh well. Maybe next time....?
Under large speakers, no problem. Depending on the size and shape you might want to put them on a platform ala Townshend Podiums for improved stability. My Moabs are plenty tall and narrow and no worries on springs here.
As for lighter stuff, the springs themselves are rather small and only 1/4" diameter. To use them one per corner, three to a component, would need to hot glue to the component or they would likely tip over. Or you could drill a 1/4" hole part way into MDF, which is what I did to make more footers using extra springs.
Nobsound springs really aren’t that good. Each spring is way too small, narrow, and stiff. What we really want is a spring like in Townshend Pods that when compressed is wider than it is tall. This gives stability. It also needs to provide freedom of movement in all planes. Nobsound really work great vertically but have a lot of lateral resistance. Another reason Townshend are a whole lot better.
If you experiment and listen instead of weighing and measuring you will notice the sound can be tuned to ear by simply removing one spring or even moving them around. Closer to corners increases effective stiffness, closer to center decreases, a difference you can see in how it bounces and hear when playing music. You can even remove or add a spring to just one at a time, and compensate (fine tune) by moving it around. Finally you can fine tune by adding weight, usually on top of the component. That’s what mahgister did, tuned his to perfection with tiny little adjustments just like these.
And all by ear.
You really need to think 360 for complete harmonic control, The Townshend, covers every plane, a lot better than single vertical support.
It has to be more like the little dog in the rear view, with his going around in circles. Bobble head.. engineering.. AY?
They sure look nice.. The Townshend, maybe the bobble head, too. A bobble head of Jane Mansfield. :-)
From my understanding the maximum load capacity of 4 Nobsound units with 7 springs is 50 kg. Did you manage to hear a positive change with the Nobsound under your amps? Does the Nobsound sound better with more or less compression?
What does 50% compression mean? Does this mean that the gap between the top and bottom aluminium alloy piece is reduced to half?
I'm trying the Nobsounds under my preamps right now. First, I got the cheaper plastic ones to try because the aluminum ones were not available. I had to use two springs per corner and wrap the springs with Teflon tape to stop the squeaking. They worked but the resonance point was 8 Hz. I just got the aluminum ones a few days ago. They are much nicer. I found that I could use just one spring per corner now and got the resonance down to 4 Hz. They are effective isolators. With one spring per corner I have roughly 0.200" gap or travel left. The springs in the nobsounds will not deform if you go closed coil and since this is a static application working height/load is not an issue. Just maintain some clearance or they cannot isolate. I believe the ideal resonance is 3 Hz for the most effective isolation.
After installing the Nobsound springs under 4 feet of the component, I found the degree of compression at all 4 corners to be dissimilar. The gap of the springs at the front appears to be smaller than the rear. This may suggest that the component is heavier at the front thus causing higher compression to the Nobsound springs placed at the front. Lighter weight at the rear thus less compression resulting in a larger gap of the springs placed at the rear of the component.
Is it advisable to remove one spring from footers with larger gaps to compensate for the uneven weight distribution of the component?
Yes you are looking for even compression on all spring pods. You can use a level too you know.. Just like a fence post.. I woulds also make sure the top, bottom and springs are completely installed.. The springs can get hung in the bore a little..
I've used a few now, they are well made but they aren't perfect. :-) Step on them after you get your spring count right. Ear plugs in the springs too, Just a little nugget..
Right, I need some advice. No matter how I adjust the number of springs at all 4 footers, the gap between the top and bottom metal pieces of the two footers located at the front will not be the same as the two footers at the rear.
Two Nobsound footers at the front = 3 springs
Gap between top and bottom metal pieces = 3.5 mm
Two Nobsound footers at the rear = 2 springs
Gap between top and bottom metal pieces = 2 mm
Question : Is it better to add one more spring to both footers at the rear or remove one spring from the front footers? I have checked the levels with a spirit level. There is no issue with the leveling. The uneven gap is caused by uneven weight distribution of the component which is heavier at the front and lighter at the rear.
The gap between the metal pieces of the front footers will not be the same as the rear footers no matter how the adjustments are carried out.
I would appreciate any advice.
You looking for equal load distribution, the compression of the pod is what your trying to accomplish. Keep in mind it takes a couple days of playing to settle them in too. Never hurts to take notes and do a final adjustment and placement of the springs and pods. Remember use ear plugs to dampen the springs. Roll them up and put them inside the spring.. Itti Bitty stuff helps..
I just picked up 2 new sets. That is my approach too Brian. Thus, Now have three sets = 4 pieces of equipment. Was just playing around with spring counts on my Belles 400A this afternoon, which is a beast. Started with three springs initially, but added a 4th spring to each of its three today (in the center).
I’m just unsure and a little wary of the potential danger due to the 63 lbs weight of the unit. It has heavy duty cast-iron insulator feet which strongly support the component. The bottom plate at the rear middle may not be strong enough to be used as a support. Furthermore, there are air vents at the bottom which extend close to the rear of the unit. It’s a Class A amp.
If the component is less than 20 lbs I wouldn’t hesitate to use 3 footers as a support. My DAC is rather lightweight at 15 lbs, and 3 footers with 1 spring each may be too much.
I haven’t tried the second set of Nobsound on my DAC yet as I want to evaluate the performance of it on the amp first. I have to say, initial impressions have been very positive although the set up may not be fully optimized.
My Belles 400A is about 60-70lb too, and three feet are fine. Now, because of my layout, there are two toroidal transformers in the middle, so that may help, not sure how yours is set-up. Regardless, the chassis in my old Belles is very strong, I have no concerns with one foot/spring in the rear. There isn’t any flex in the chassis that I can see.
I gotcha, nice Lux. Yes, your layout is a bit different as it is an integrated, not a stand-alone amp. The shots of mine are on my virtual system page. I use the Nobsound feet under the chassis itself, not to its stock feet, but instead, adjacent to them. I should probably remove the stock feet actually.
I had been using cones prior, which did make a significant difference. The Nobsound vs the cones I was using is pretty much the same/similar actually. Perhaps a little better, but not anything that ‘turned my head’ over.
No I sprayed 50 springs with Flex Seal and then used ear plugs inside the springs. It made quit a bit of difference.. It actually works perfect for lighter stuff like turntables, amps.. Speakers I notice it a lot less. The springs do it for the speakers alone. I load some gear with springs and a block of wood on top too. I load it in a slot between 2 3/4" pieces of 13 ply birch. Tinkering..
Appreciate the idea. It makes sense to me to try and reduce transmitted vibration in some way that does not affect the action of the spring. Of course, I also wonder what the effect might be by the manufacturer to use other alloys for the springs themselves. Maybe different metal for the center spring if used.
May I know the recommended compression? I was made to understand that the optimal compression of Solid Tech footers is between 1-3mm. The Nobsound is based on Solid Tech's design so I presume it’s the same.
The gap at the front footers is 3.5mm. The rear footers are worse as they currently have a smaller 2mm gap. If the Nobsounds require a larger gap I’ll add one spring to the rear footers which will probably get the gap up to 5mm.
When I first installed the Nobsounds, they have a large gap between the top and bottom aluminium piece but a member here advised to get them as close as possible. Check out the thread at the Tech Talk section.
I'm curious about this idea of using foam ear plugs with the Nobsound springs. I assume you roll the earplugs small and insert them in the middle of each spring? Or is the idea to put them in the holes that don't have springs in them?
And is the theory that it further damps vibrations or that it provides lateral stiffening?
FWIW I have Nobsound springs underneath my 135 lb Moabs, 7 springs in the heavier front corners and 6 in the rear corners. It works like a charm and even though A/B testing is impossible I would say there was some improvement in detail.
I am using them without experimenting with removing springs (though thanks to this informative thread, I will-eventually) and my system sounds amazingly better than when I was using Machina Dynamica cryoed and heavy duty springs
As to experimenting, if you have any kind of blocks to replace each of the full set of 4 spring sets, removing them one at a time, will make it a lot easier.
Experiment with not putting them under the existing footers
Some thoughts based on my experience meanwhile. I have Nobsound springs under my Streamer/DAC, my heavy mono blocks (44 kg each) and my Powerfilter unit. My initial attempt with the DAC (~12.5 kg) was with 3 units with 3 springs each, as this was the least number of springs per unit that I thought was stable in itself. This results in a situation where the Nobsounds don't compress much. The hearing result was intimidating: added sharpness, less resolution and less dynamics.
I then tried to use less springs and ended up with 4 units with 1 spring per unit. At least for the 12kg DAC this is still stable enough. On one side (where the transformers sit), I have two springs. In total this results in a situation where all units are compressed about equally and about 50% (gap of the unit compared to uncompressed, by rough eyesight). The acoustic result is great and I kept the springs since then: Instruments appear to resonate more freely, there is more room, and bass apears to reach deeper. The number of springs corresponds nicely to the rule of thumb mentioned in the OP (2.5kg per spring). For me this is helpful to determine at least a starting point for finetuning by listening.
For the monoblocks, the result of adding the springs is very similar and synergetic to the DAC. Under the power filter, the effect is the least. I would not claim that it would withstand a blind test, but I kept the springs there for optical reasons.
I really like the ideas of dampening the springs with foam ear plugs and/or PTFE tape. I will definitely try (on my DAC first).
I’ll keep this short although I have a lot to write. I am still experimenting with the number of springs on each footer. Patience would be required for this sort of exercise as there are many possible configurations from one to full seven springs with each footer, placed under the feet or chassis of the component, 3 or 4 units for each component etc.
I’m halfway through with the experiment on the integrated amp in the main system. The Nobsounds are placed directly below the component’s feet. In the Solid Tech brochure, 1-3mm gap is said to be optimal for the best sound reproduction. However, this is not the case with my system. Initially I tried 6 springs for all four Nobsound footers and this actually gave the best sound so far, although I later found that I need to reduce one spring each from the footers at the rear due to the unbalanced weight distribution of the component which is heavier at the front. I then reduced the springs to the minimum (3 springs at front footers, 2 at rear footers) and slowly got back up to 4 springs at the front, 3 at the rear, and I’m currently at 5 springs front, 4 springs rear. The current gap with this set up is 7mm which is slightly above 50% compression.
The sound got better when the gap got larger from 2mm to the current 7mm. I’ll add one spring to each footer tomorrow to get the gap up to 8 or 9mm tomorrow. I haven’t tried the full 7 springs but I think I may skip this one.
Improvements with an optimized set up include a sound that has better clarity, air and detail. The tone of instruments sounds more illuminated with a tube like glow. There’s more air between instruments which gave an airy feel and the bass sounds clearer with better definition and control.
I’ve briefly tried the Nobsounds on my Naim amps in the second system. As I don’t have much time to experiment, I didn’t do any adjustments to the springs. When placed on the preamp, I could not hear much difference. When placed on the power amp, the sound got worse. I then realize one cannot expect instant good results by installing these without much effort.
A note is the springs may not be in a perfect vertical position especially when using minimal springs ie. 1 or 2. The springs may be slightly inclined and this can affect sound quality too.
Nobsounds installed on the preamp in my second system. Not much difference here.
Nobsounds on the power amp which made the sound worse. After I checked on the installation, I noticed the footers have different degree of compression, some smaller gap and some with larger gap. Also, few springs and top aluminum pieces are in a slant position. When I looked at the internals of the amp, I then realize why the footers at the right have higher compression - a large toroidal transformer is on the right side on the amp.
Need more time and effort to get things right here.
After having some experience installing the Nobsounds, I just wonder how other isolation products such as Isoacoustics Orea or Townshend Pods address uneven load distribution of components. I presume sound quality will be affected if the footers are not properly loaded to their design performance parameters.
I don't have the Townshend pods, but I have the podiums under my heavy floorstanding speakers. They use pods on all four sides that are fixed to the podium and that have a knob to adjust the preload on the springs (in a certain range, there are different pod types for coarse load adjustment). With my speakers the Townshend podiums were a huge improvement, by some factor more than with the Nobsound springs under the components.
The Townshend pods are much enhanced, as they are also rather free in the horizontal directions (Nobsound is more or less stiff there), and the Pods are also dampened in a controlled way.