Nobsound springs - load range

My suggestion was going to be just use more Nobsounds. I guess you could search out different springs/load rating.

Oh, I also thought about using 2 in each speaker corner. Would that do the trick?

Thanks

My speakers (Reference 3A Nefes) are about 160 Lbs. Any ideas on how to increase the weight capacity of the 4 Nobsound Springs so I can use them? At $1,000 for 8, the Gaia I footers are not an option.

@ghdprentice  Thanks for confirming. 

Oops. My bad. I moved mine from under feet to under the chassis. Sounds better

Oops. My bad. I moved mine from under feet to under the chassis. Sounds better. Not sure what made me initially put them under the feet. I have used, cones, vibrapods, pucks…. Long list and never put them under the feet. 

Oh well… senior moment when I did that.
 

Thanks @noromance ​​@ghdprentice 

Today I set up the springs with 5 in each and put them under the feet on the Hegel and listened for a few hours. Tomorrow I’ll move them off the feet and give them a few hours.

@curiousjim Hi Jim. Put them under the component not under the feet. I tried it once and didn’t like it. But I use tubes. However, @ghdprentice found that it worked. Use the necessary number of springs for each of the 3 points under the component so that the component is level after the set up. Obviously, use 4 under speakers. I can’t state it clearly enough - try difference configurations by listening. e.g. try it at 20% and 50% compression, under feet or chassis, 3 vs 4 etc.

I use Nobsound springs under the existing feet. But, only way to be sure on your system is to try.

Four Nobsprings are plenty for 40 pounds. I would remove enough springs for them to compress about half way when loaded.

If I chose to use a cutting board, it would be under the springs and separated from the shelf by vibripods or other elastomer disks. This gives another layer of isolation. I am doing something like this using a Black Diamond Racing platform and springs on top and vibrapods under. I would not couple all the springs together… and most components are heavier in back. Best to tune the springs to each location.

@noromance 

I just thought of another question. I have a bamboo cutting board. Would it be better to put the four Nobsound springs under the cutting board and the put the Hegel on top?

Thanks again.

@noromance 

I just got a set of the Nobsound springs and there’s no instructions at all. So I have two questions. First, my Hegel weighs about 44 pounds. Is 4 springs enough or should I use 5? And the second is, should I put them under the Hegel’s feet or next to them?

I’ve read most of this thread and the answers to the first question varied a lot and the pictures I saw had people doing both.

Thanks in advance.

@noromance 

richer tone from top to bottom, especially in the lower mids and bass

Also due to the added height of the dollys the sweet spot was too high, now where it was intended

@ryder 

Instant success with first installation? What luck! I failed in my first attempt as the sound got worse when I first installed the Nobsounds. It took me about 5 days with arduous trials to get to the optimal spring configuration.

I was just lucky. I think the quick success might be because I have tube amps (microphonics). Also, the amps sit next to my speakers (mono-blocks) and I know they pick up vibration. I have picked up two more sets of springs. One set will go under my tube preamp and the other will go under my turntable. I just need to make two more isolation platforms (sandwiched oak plywood) for both components. 

Good to hear @tweak1 . What improvement have you experienced?

I finally got around to taking my Emerald Physics 3.4s off the Harbor Freight dollys they've been on since I got them over a year ago. Each base is resting on 4 full spring Nobsounds. Quite an improvement!

Imagine now fine tuned damped loaded speakers with springs asymmetrically compressed under and over the speakers...

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now take a piece of 1-1.5" all-thread and drill a hole in the top and the bottom of the speaker, countersink the holes top and bottom and use 6" x 1/2" washers. Now tighten to tone. You can make the cabinet sound like green concrete, if you tighten correctly.. Cost a couple of peanuts at least, all thread ain't cheap.100.00 should do it, used would work, 30-50.00 for 2 pieces of 60" all thread and make the washers.

Master M, you’ve done it again. :-)

Enjoy the holidays..

I decided to give the Nobsound springs a try with my MC275 amplifiers. They were already resting on oak plywood bases (home made). I removed the feet and placed the bases on the springs and made sure it was level. Hooked everything back up, started my system and starting streaming the song "Along in Kyoto" by the group Air. First song and I heard details that I had never heard (maybe noticed) before.

I am trying to be skeptical about this, but the next album I streamed had what I can only describe as more depth. It was as if the sound field had depth below the floor. It’s a strange description, but as I was listening it was as if the floor dropped due to the sound field. It’s a weird sensation. It is really difficult to describe.

Instant success with first installation? What luck! I failed in my first attempt as the sound got worse when I first installed the Nobsounds. It took me about 5 days with arduous trials to get to the optimal spring configuration.

Let's see, so we can put springs under the load, and also attach springs to the ceiling, with an adjustable rod attaching to the top of the load. Yes, a good weekend project, for sure.

@mahgister Merry Christmas to you!

I am like you, i dont know either...

It is just fun to create simple experiments...

Merry christmast to you....

@mahgister I am realizing how much I don’t know. How deep does this rabbit hole go?

@noromance brilliant 😂

Imagine now fine tuned  damped loaded speakers with springs asymmetrically compressed  under and over the speakers....

😉

@femoore12  You were floored.

I decided to give the Nobsound springs a try with my MC275 amplifiers. They were already resting on oak plywood bases (home made). I removed the feet and placed the bases on the springs and made sure it was level. Hooked everything back up, started my system and starting streaming the song "Along in Kyoto" by the group Air. First song and I heard details that I had never heard (maybe noticed) before.

I am trying to be skeptical about this, but the next album I streamed had what I can only describe as more depth. It was as if the sound field had depth below the floor. It’s a strange description, but as I was listening it was as if the floor dropped due to the sound field. It’s a weird sensation. It is really difficult to describe.

So glad to find this thread. I like to know why things work. The formulas provided help. Although I was doing trial and error, I did get good results.

Chronology:

1. Bought 8 Audiocrast springs on Amazon after the majority here like the results of springs. I picked this brand because it had a higher weight capacity. My speakers are 120 lbs each. Results were as someone said, "right", you just know it. Pretty much same as others. Details, transients, weight, just better

2. LIked the results so much i ordered 8 more for my subs. What once sounded like a single note, had more detail, more and a cleaner bass. At the same time I could feel it. Low notes were the biggest surprise.

So I put these under the four speakers and it worked. Wow! That was simple. And Amazon would take them back if I don’t like them.

3. So what about the amp, streamer, DAC, preamp? Springs didn’t seem practical. Some components are too small and light weight. So I ordered a bunch of Herbie’s Tenderfoots. And the sound went backwards. I noticed bright treble. Bass was not as detailed and more carryover(I forget the word to describe it).

So, I am glad that fine tuning is possible. I have one spring under the speaker that is more compressed. Otherwise, not sure what to do but will fiddle around. Have all winter!

UPDATE: as to be expected replacing the 2 MD HD springs with 2 Nobs (full springs) under my heavy Core Power 1800 further improved the music. I played both Blues Brothers, before and after the 2 additional springs. Next up was Billie Holiday Greatest Hits.

Blues Brothers: I could hear much deeper into the sound stage and instruments were easily heard where they were physically on the stage and Dan Aykroyd was positioned more to the right and back from Beluchi, and the sax sounded more full bodied than at any time I've listened to this disc

Billie Holiday: This disc always sounded very good, but now, I was transported to the venue, so lifelike

hth

All of audio is trial and error. Test and evaluate, tweak and evaluate some more. This is no different. Anyone things a system is plug and play, sorry. This one thing more than anything else will hold you back.

On 2nd thought, in this context I presume this trial and error only applies to the Nobsound since they can be run in many configurations, unlike isolation products from other manufacturers. With the Isoacoustics Orea, one can only switch between 3 and 4 footers under a component, that’s about it I guess. In other words, the Oreas can be considered as plonk and play. The Oreas either work or they don’t. If the Oreas don’t work, one cannot do any changes to make them work. With the Nobsounds, if they don’t work, one can change the spring configuration to make them work.

The setting up with Nobsound is also a lot more finicky since adjustments are required with unequal weight distribution of the component. If the springs of the Nobsounds are not adjusted, the component will sit lopsided. With the Oreas (or other isolators), leveling isn’t an issue as the height of each footer is fixed, unlike the Oreas where the height will vary with weight.

I presume the Townshend Seismic Pods are also rather straightforward in their set up without much effort required, perhaps with leveling adjustments they are pretty much plug and play? Assumption on my part.

Folks, an update. I’ll cut to the chase.

Please put some effort in the set up of the Nobsounds as they have proven to be effective, only when properly set up. As mentioned earlier, no shortcuts.

I can confirm that the footers have brought an impact to the system. After getting to the optimized set up of the Nobsound on the power amp, I removed them and listened again. The bass lost definition and sounded smeared. There was bass resonance. Next, percussion sounded soft, subdued and smeared, lacking energy and sparkle.

Now, the interesting part. I reinstalled the Nobsounds but failed to achieve the previous performance. Long story short. Some footers have a larger gap while some show a smaller gap. After some adjustments it’s all glory again. Lesson learned - try to get a same compression for all footers below the component.

The diagram below shows the 3 footers under the amp. As the load distribution of the amp is unequal(transformer is located on the right), all footers have different number of springs.

Notice the footer at the rear is not at the centre but moved slightly to the right. The placement of this footer was painstakingly adjusted several times to ensure an even compression for all 3 footers.

The diagram below shows the transformer on the right which contributed to the heavier weight where more springs are required to compensate.

Most people wind up with a lot of springs left over. They fit perfectly into a 1/4" hole. This makes it real easy to DIY extra ones. Simply drill 1/4" holes in some wood, MDF, acrylic, etc and put em together.

Good suggestion. I entertained the idea of making some using the leftover springs earlier. Unfortunately I have poor DIY skills and don't have the necessary tools to do so.  Also, the different looks of the footers may affect the aesthetics if the components are on the same rack. Will see how it goes.

I agree the only way is to listen with a lot of trial and error.

Most people wind up with a lot of springs left over. They fit perfectly into a 1/4" hole. This makes it real easy to DIY extra ones. Simply drill 1/4" holes in some wood, MDF, acrylic, etc and put em together. Experiment to get the holes the right depth, maybe use some hot glue, you could do really light components with just one or two springs per pod. Another option, even easier, add weight. I have used a 5lb dive weight on my CDP for years.

All of audio is trial and error. Test and evaluate, tweak and evaluate some more. This is no different. Anyone things a system is plug and play, sorry. This one thing more than anything else will hold you back.

Corollary: learn to listen, don't waste time measuring. 

Time spent writing down kg and measuring compression is time that could have been spent listening, which is the only way you get anywhere. The sooner you figure this out the faster you go.

After hearing the benefits of the Nobsounds in my system, I am now an advocate of good or proper isolation for both speakers and components. The Nobsounds may not be the best product in the market but they certainly have the potential of improving the sound quality of the system when appropriately installed under components. For the price there are no complaints.

Anyone who is having problem with the system sounding bright, hard or digital should give these a try before they change something else in the system to correct the issues.

Having removed lots of springs from the Nobs, under the various components, while the music was clearer, I lost the grounded aspect/weight. 2 things left speakers (a 2 man job) and my Core Power 1800 PLC, which is at the bottom of my vertical rack. I've been waiting for help, but last night listening to Blues Brothers, while the clarity was amazing, but overall the weight/soul of the music was missing. This is a very poorly lit room, and access to the back of the rack is difficult in daylight with all the cables, BUT, I decided to replace the 2 Machina Dynamica HD springs in the front with Nobs (fully sprung): WOW. The missing weight magically returned, SHOCKINGLY SO. Today's task is to maneuver behind the rack and insert 2 more

waste of time without giving so much as a single reason why such calculations are useful.

No one is arguing and qualified it with

Of course this gets one in the ballpark and will require experimenting

No one is claiming a calculation is the end all be all, ooy

This was all just to say, it will prob SAVE time doing a few quick calcs to get things in the ballpark instead of trying 1000 unnecessary permutations. Comp springs are engineered to operate within the given design parameters so as to work at freq ranges.

I use springs and roller bearings on all my gear, not sure what the issue is with the discussion at hand.

Peanuts, Master M, peanuts.. :-)

Regards

@mahgister +1 sir.

At peanuts cost i will try it myself.... Thanks to the old mechanic who feed chickens all day long....😊

OP now you have tried ear plugs. NOW take the upper and lower portion along with the springs, and put the pocket side down. Spray everything with aerosol Flex Seal, reinstall your gummy puffers (ear plugs) in the springs and assemble.. 

Try that. Suspension 101. :-) Added another 6-8.00 usd for great dampening on your vibration and accumulator (shock) control.. 

I'm working on a budget pneumatic (air ride) system. :-)

Regards..

I disagree, this time-rare, with mc.  There's nothing wrong with looking for the best starting point via applied science, at least not IMHO. Others can try one hundred permutations and and individual audible testing if they so choose. The key is getting to the right place in the end.

Granted, not as great a waste of time as reading people arguing about it not being a waste of time without giving so much as a single reason why such calculations are useful. But still a waste of time.

Because it takes far less time to try and see. Which in the end is what must be done anyway. No calculation known to man will tell you what will sound best under every single component. The only way to find out is to try and listen. Therefore, as a matter of simple air tight logic, waste of time.

That said, I encourage some of you to do so anyway. Better use of your time than opining here.

I always get cautious when hearing such dogmatic statements. I would rather consider starting in the dark and doing erratic trial and error on all possible permutations of changes to different variables of a system a waste of time.

I prefer to have at least a basic understanding (or sometimes a hint or theory, e.g. 50% compression for the springs) of the variables and dependencies of a system and how they probably work. It is always good to derive a starting point and some hints/directions for experiments. This saves time in my opinion. And yes, the fine tuning and verification needs to be done by ear. The learnings should then be used to adapt the theory (maybe it’s then 75% compression or even different compression for different components or something totally different). This can at least help others for their systems.

Only repeating statements like "the only way is by hearing" renders this forum useless.

Very well said @hm9001. By design, comp springs "generally" should be in the 80% ~ compressed from free length to get within the low single digit freq.(<5Hz). Of course this gets one in the ballpark and will require experimenting etc.. but for someone to say

"All the calculations are a waste of time." 🤦‍♂️ ooy.

@hm9001 

Nice. I have an aftermarket Furutech IEC hard wired with pure silver to the power supply and a silver jumper bypassing the 110/220 switch. The LPM has a good size toroid. I have 2 springs centered under it, a single spring directly under the CD tray and 2 springs near the back output side

@noromance    “I have a rock in my second system phono amp. A rock! From the yard.”
 

👍 Love it. Now that is a cost effective tweak. 
 

I suppose now we need to discuss if a piece of wood might not be better (think Maple Shade)… or what kind of rock. I am thinking Eclogite might be best… or worst… it is heavy and dense. 
 

Sorry, if I didn’t bring it up someone else would. 

I have a rock in my second system phono amp. A rock! From the yard.

Have you tried to stick with 3 units and put some weight on your DAC to reach the desired compression?

No I haven't. Will need to find something suitable to be added as weight. That will come later. 

@ryder Guess what, I am now on 2 footers with 1 spring in each. 

Have you tried to stick with 3 units and put some weight on your DAC to reach the desired compression?

@tweak1 Well, I started pulling springs out late yesterday with 3 springs/ 3 Nobs under the Oppo first (decent improvement).

The streamer/DAC I was talking about is also an Oppo105 (heavily modified: clock, improved XLR output stage, IEC inlet, LPS, fuse). The  best result I get with the Nobsounds is 4 units with 1 spring each, springs dampened with ear plugs and bores lubricated with PTFE spray. On the left side the springs are more compressed (as the transformers are on the left). Since I cannot further reduce the number of springs, I will maybe try with some weight on the right side.

In a thread *** Specifically *** to discuss  Nobsound Audio products the usual suspect starts **** Pedalling **** a competitors product 🙄

I'm sure the Townshend Pods are great and superior to the Nobsounds, but at their current prices they only fit higher end systems. They may cost more than the component that they would be supporting in modest or budget systems. 😁

On the other hand the Nobsounds are rather affordable and people can buy several sets to support all their equipment if they want. 😉

Right folks, a little update on the Nobsound experiment under the DAC. This one is a lot trickier as the component is rather lightweight at 15 lbs. I started with 3 footers with 1 spring in each, all in direct contact with the chassis. The springs aren’t compressed enough and the sound got worse. So I did the unimaginable. Guess what, I am now on 2 footers with 1 spring in each. One would think how the component would be stable under 2 footers. In reality it isn’t but the set up is unique since the power cord(which is a very stiff cable) is lending some pull to the DAC which keeps the stability intact. The component is in a near perfect horizontal plane although there’s only 2 footers below it.

Even with 2 footers @ 1 spring each, the gap is rather high at ~7mm (50% compression). This is the maximum compression that can be achieved as it’s impossible to support the component with 1 footer.

Very interesting observations with some very positive results but I still need more time to determine if the 2nd set of Nobsounds will get to stay with the DAC on a long term basis. The Nobsounds are currently up against Finite Elemente Spider footers which use ceramic balls as a form of isolation. So far I would say there’s a difference between the two but will see if it’s significant enough to swap the FEs out for the Nobsounds. I could live with either as the sound quality is already great with either one. More reports later.

Before I wrap up, I have to say that the addition of the Nobsounds to each component in the system has added something to the sound. If I could find the simplest way to describe it, I would say the Nobsounds make music sound more analog. Less digital. They add more body to the sound which makes music sound fuller. If the set up is done correctly, you get this improvement without losing dynamics and bass weight. Otherwise, the sound will get soft and mushy, sounding lean, thin and 2 dimensional with reduced bass response.