Vandersteen Treo CT, Pair of Sub threes and Lyngdorf TDAI 3400


Hello all,

I am investing in a system upgrade.  My room is not the greatest and I won't be doing any acoustic treatments to it.

Basically the main speakers need to be within 12 to 18 inches of the wall (WAF).  Because of this I am thinking of building the system around Lyngdorf and Room Perfect.

I am thinking of pairing the Vandersteen Treo CT with a Pair of Sub threes.  I would be driving these with a Lyngdorf TDAI 3400.  

My question is the SUB Three's have room EQ and the Lyngdorf has room correction.

How would I set these up together?

Would I get the SUB Three's set up and them run the Lyngdorf Room Perfect

or

Would the room perfect render the SUB Three's EQ as useless in that case I would just by the cheaper Vandy V2W subs without the EQ and let room perfect blend the subs and mains.

Thanks in advance for any help.


efoo
I think you need to have a long talk with Johnny Rutan at Audio Connection in New Jersey.  Give him a call.
Thanks I will give Johnny a call.  He seems to be well regarded in the Vandy world!
+1 for John Rutan.
And, you could also leave a message with Mr. V. He calls back the next day, usually.
FWIW, I would have the Treo's and Sub 3's set up by a dealer like Johnny, and skip the room EQ from the Lyngorf.

[Though I haven't heard the Lyngorf, I would sell it and get an Ayre. Either integrated or separates. Ayre really integrates well with Vandersteen speakers -But, that is only my biased opinion]. 
I would defer to any recommendations John Rutan gives you.
Bob
I was going with the Lyngdorf because the treos need to be within 18 inches of the wall.  Not optimal I know.  I thought the room perfect would help with this.
@efoo  My Treo CTs are over three feet from the front wall and two feet from the side walls.  They sound incredible there!  Where did you get the 18" info. from?
I can't pull them out farther than 18 inches from the wall.  

I know the optimal spot is more like 3 or 4 feet.

But for WAF it is my limit.  Thats why I was leaning toward the Lyngdorf with room perfect.
Buy the Ayre, put the speakers in the middle of the room, tell her you are the king of your castle.
  Efoo whoever told you the Vander Steen treos need to be 3 feet into the room was a mistaken TheTreo’s will work 7 to 12 inches out from most front walls and if you are also having a pair of VanderSteen sub threes they are being high passed and room compensated will work inches  from the wall the High Pass units removes the  heavy lifting away from the main speakers lowering distortion and dramatically increasing the transparency and clarity of the whole system. The sub threes Room compensation is done in A non-digital approach Why run your music through a digital processor when you don’t have to with Vandersteen Sub Threes the best of both worlds.             best JohnnyR 
My Treo CT's are approx. 18 inches from the front wall and I am using (one) 2Wq sub with the M5-HP unbalanced crossovers and getting great results from this combo.  Also, My Treo's are approx. 3 feet from the side walls.
@mr_m what amplification are you using with your Treo's?
I can't imagine the Lyngdorf being anything but fantastic on anything its paired with. 
Efoo ((((I am thinking of pairing the Vandersteen Treo CT with a Pair of Sub threes.  I would be driving these with a Lyngdorf TDAI 3400. ))))
Mofojo
((((I can't imagine the Lyngdorf being anything but fantastic on anything its paired with))))
Efoo , Mofo,
 Guys,
 With regard to running a Lyngdorf, I do not see how you could get the Preamp out Back into this device for main in to allow the Vandersteen High pass to work. its the most important feature you need to remove the heavy lifting off the main amp lowering distortion dramatically improving dynamics, clarity and transparency of the whole system. I know its cool to see all of the gadgets and digital sizzle advancements but make sure you're not majoring on the minors in the big picture VS a true Bi-amped proven combination that works.
 You may want to research the new  Zero feedback 50-pound Aesthetix Mimas integrated designed in USA with Vandersteen High pass friendly  DNA and voiced with Vandersteens or any amp that has a preamp out main in.
We tuned Vandersteen 2CE Sigs /Sub 3 / Belles Aria at 2K an analog integrated amp featuring Preamp out and Main in , adjusted high pass for proper x over setting, then performed the Sub 3s room compensation settings, the end result is truly extraordinary while also allowing close to front wall placement.
Best,
  JohnnyR

 
Hi Johnny,

Thanks for your thoughtful responses.  I am currently traveling in CA I will try to give you a call next week to talk through your last post.

I think you have hit the nail right on the head.  My worry was always how the EQ with the Sub threes would work with the room perfect from the Lyngdorf.

Elliot
All of these great comments have given me enough pause so...... 
I think I am going to start slow and order the Treo CTs and hook them up to my Mcintosh MA6500.  I have an extra Velodyne DD12 so I may hook that up as well so I can get a feel for sub with the Treos.  Ultimately I like the idea of a sub three or 2 sub threes with the treos.

Then I can take my time picking the right amp and pre or integrated.
good call OP !!!!!
I have Treo CT fairly close to the wall 14” and they sound fantastic
running them with a 40 WPC Naim amp
the sub three would be devine but get me evicted !

have fun, go slow, build a relationship with Vandy dealer and they will help you wring the maximum out of your room using analog EQ



Since I am kinda new to posting what does OP mean?
audionoobie,
I use a Rogue Pharaoh hybrid integrated amp. I don't have the usual pre -out main-in connections on my amp, so I have been using the amps processor loop which does pretty much the same thing as pre-out, main-in, for the M5-HP crossovers to make my Vandy sub perform correctly without any change to the amps internals. I talked extensively to a Rogue technician to make sure this would be ok. Please note the processor loop is not the same as a tape monitor loop. I selected the correct settings on the crossovers for the 40k input impedance of my amp and the sound of my Treo CT's and sub have been stellar ever since.

I am in a similar situation, so this is a great thread.  I really like  the Aesthetix Mimas suggestion and will be following along.

Regarding the Lyndgorf, it isn't voiced with Vandersteen but I believe it does have a built-in high pass that can be set to 100hz with a 6db slope...I think.

Regardless, good luck and I appreciate the community.
Yes the Lyngdorf crossover can be set this way. Main output from the speaker terminals and the pre outs can both be set t ok whatever you choose. It is very transparent and done in the digital domain.
As Johnny (audioconnection) is familiar with the Lyngdorf, I would consult him before connecting a Vandy sub to it.
@efoo , you have some nice equipment to play with.
I would first connect the Treo's sans subwoofer and get a feel for what it can do. Then, try the Velodyne. Though I think it will not give you the 'feel' of what a Vandy sub can do. Using the M5-HP crossover really makes a difference, that other sub manufacturers can't duplicate.
B
Thanks B... I will do that 

BrianG and Mofojo does that mean that the Lyngdorf would act like the Vandersteen high pass?
Yes you would bypass the EQ on your sub and set all crossover points on the Lyngdorf. Will time align things as well. Very good sub integration. This would work just fine unless I am missing something. 
I'm trying out some monitors right now with my JL sub. I set Lyngdorf high pass at 80 and low pass at 80. Sounds great! 

(((This would work just fine unless I am missing something.)))
  MoJo
Do you have a voltmeter can easily confirm If lyngdorf could work?

Download Vandertones under resources at the Vandersteen website
Set up the x over for - 3db at 80
Play Vandertones track 27= 1000 HZ adjust main volume control to read 1V AC next
Play Vandertones track 31=  100 HZ
 Let me know what the Volt meter reads.
 Best
  JohnnyR

Johnny you are the man.   I will call you when I get back from CA.

The Aesthetix Mimas  sound like it may be perfect for what I am trying to do and since you know it will work from a DNA standpoint it may be just the ticket.
 @efoo  where in CA ? I am in Carlsbad w Treo CT
I am in irvine, heading back to Rochester NY tomorrow.

How long have you had your treo's
That new Aesthetix Mimas is probably a game changer for the cost. I was shocked when I saw that.  I love their gear (had Rhea) and boy do they stand by it.  

We all need to go visit Tomic!!!!!  I want to hear his other houses system with the 7's ;)....

Had a dream last night that I got a pair of the sub 9's to pair iwht my Quatro's after I put the Quatro's on a 3" piece of granite.  LOL......

Johnny, you just blew me away with the set up of the sub.  Don't know why, but you did. 
“These are not the subwoofers you are looking for, move along.....”

@ efoo just missed ya then...buckle up for winter and snowblowers while we are trapped here in perpetual sunshine and fires...ugh.

I have had the Treo CT for  about 6 months now. I love them. Easy to setup and dial in. Suprisingly good and deep bass for not having powered sub, but you can add that later.

I am certain that the MIMAS is fantastic, pretty much everything Jim White touches is IMO.....I have his Pandora DAC....very nice sound...rugged build quality, excellent engineering including Faraday cage, a guy who understands RF and analog circuit s and the evil the former can foist on the latter....so ya, Aesthetix should be on your list for sure...
 @ctsooner reference system has never sounded better, I continue to make small adjustments and encroach ( erode ) WAF....latest put them another foot apart, then back 3” as I started to get some asymmetrical image due to reflections off picture window...

I am going to try the “master “ setup trick and evaluate zeroing out the lowest EQ setting....my room while just 15’ x 17’ is framed very well and has a sloped 16’ ceiling and a lot of openings.".but why not try ????
wish I understood set up better than I do.  I may call this week if I can carve out some time to talk.  I have a few questions for you.
Just had a great call with Johnny.  So worth the time.  Discovered Belles is 2 miles from my house LOL.
I didn't know Belles was in NY state, until I just googled it.
I know Johnny says they work well with Vandersteen's.
Back in the early 2000's based on the recommendation of Doug Blackburn of Soundstage I bought a Belles 150A to use with a pair of 3A Signatures and it was an excellent match.  Later used it with both 2CE Sigs and Treo's and still a great match.  
Belles puts the $$$$$ where it matters
So here is the update.  I am leaning toward getting the Quatro Wood CTs instead of the Treos.  After reading all of your advice and speaking with Johnny I have pretty much decided against the lyngdorf.  Now the question is do I go with Asthetix Minas, Belles separates - pre and mono blocks or maybe even the new Belles virtuoso.   Thanks you guys are steering me in the right direction and helping me spend money LOL!
The Aesthetix Mimas would be your simpler solution through you can't go wrong with either company.  Having the ability to skip the external HP-5's would tip the scale for me. 
I think monoblocks are somewhat overrated ( yes I do own some... )
the Aesthetix Stereo amp is a wonder and has built in high Pass filter ....
but the good news in Johnny has all this gear you can hear with Quattro CT

enjoy your quest !
painted or wood Quattro ?
Not sure of the finish yet
@efoo 
Any finish you get is going to look incredible. Vandersteen has a high quality finish cabinetry.
Aesthetics vs. Belles, I don't think you could go wrong, but, if you are going monoblocks, I would consider Ayre. I know Johnny swears by zero feedback design. I own both Ayre MX-R's and Atmasphere MA-1's and each provide fine performance one would find hard to beat at any cost.
Bob
Yes, as a woodworking person I can say that Richard has a GREAT veneer guy.  I personally got mine painted in Audio Havana Black.  It's an upgrade and isn't cheap, but man do they do a great job.  He has some cool veneers too.  So glad you are taking this route.  I LOVE my Quatro's as you all know.  Johnny is going crazy over that Aesthetix integrated.  I can't wait to hear that combo.  

Please keep us updated.  
stick to the Lyngdorf, and Room perfect, and by the cheaper Vandy V2W subs, you will newer get a better bass anywhere , Room perfect handle your speakers position without problem nothing ells do the same :-)
ditto +1 to  jenssmed

From my experience using Lyngdorf 2170, Vandy will likely work well with Lyngdorf 3400.
The Vandy works great with any good amp.  That said, I spoke with a friend in Atlanta who has the Treo's and uses the small Belles. Said it's a match made in heaven.  As Tomic said they put money where it counts.  I heard it once with Treo's and loved it.  I thought it was a 5k integrated.  When he told me it was under 2k, I was pretty amazed.  I've heard the Lyngdorf.  Very nice gear, but for ME, I'd probably get a Belles and put my saved money elsewhere.  That's just me, lol.  Can't go wrong with either.