Tempted to buy a Macintosh

heh Dill, your sarcasm is inappropriate IMO. Many who come here do not have English as a first language. GTE, I owned the Almarro 318B for many years. It's a great low cost SET amp. The McIntosh SS gear you're thinking of will provide a very different sound presentation than you are used to.  Can you try a McIntosh at your home? If you really want to try out some SS there are many brands unless you have to have those blue meters. I've never been a McIntosh fan but many here are and will advise you.

@dill, thanks for pointing it out.  : )

@tuberist, yes, I think I either want a tube, or a SS with those cool blue meter.  I wonder how many people buy McIntosh because of those, LoL.  And your comment about SS will sound different likely very true.  That’s why I want to hear what other thinks.  Even though I like the look, the sound is more important.  If SS is the McIntosh thing, then I guess I will stay away from it until I am ready to change my whole set, to speakers like Focal or B&W.

You have a McIntosh dealer close to you.

https://definitive.com/bellevue

@dill 
there are McIntosh dealers in Vancouver, Canada.  It will be hard for me to find time to audition them due to the lock down with kids at home.  My question is more like, if there are successful story out there pairing McIntosh and efficient speakers like Zu.  And specifically people’s thought on MA252 compared to other models.  When I get a chance, I guess I can go to one of the dealer and try it with an Audio Note speaker if they have them on display.  The Audio Note are expensive and not a mainstream brand, but it is the only efficient speaker they have that is design for tube amps.

I'm not familiar with your speakers, but if they are as efficient as you note, then McIntosh power could be a very desirable choice.  While many might disagree, I find they provide super-clean power and uncolored flat presentation.  

Their tube amps are what made them famous and the one that most people reference is the MC275.  It's been made essentially the same way for decades and is now on its 6th generation.  If you're patient and watch the ads closely, I'm sure you could find a MC275 III, IV or V in decent condition near your budget target.  It features mono bridging if you want to go that route.  There are also standard mono units in MC40, MC60 and MC75 variants.

If you want to go SS, the second generation MC7100 (it features XLR input connections) could be a good way to go.  It offers 150 watts stereo and a mono bridge for 300.  It was made with a toroidal transformer, is well-reviewed for sound quality, is bullet-proof reliable and sells in the $1200 per unit range.  There are several others that you could consider, some of which are quite collectable and also near to your price point.  The MC2300 is a famous example and is the amp that powered the Wall of Sound back in the day.

A good place to start researching what's out there and find out the best potential match would be Audio Classics.  They're the foremost McIntosh retailer around, ship worldwide and have a stellar reputation.  They're located in Vestal NY, so not far from the Mc factory.  Surf their website - you'll find it a great source of information.

Good luck and happy listening!

@effischer 
yes, I hear good thing about the MC275.  The only thing is I will need a preamp, which then increase the cost, and one more component to worry about having synergy.  If I am going to get a preamp, I read very good reviews on Supratek and Coincident which are $2000-$2500 used.  Together with the MC275 will be like $6000 .... 

and what’s your opinion on the 252?  I found this YouTube video with MA252 and Marten Duke 2 monitor speaker.  Honestly, I am shocked by the mid bass in that video with such a small monitor speaker.  I wonder if a subwoofer is placed somewhere, or it is because of the 252.

Forgot the link.

https://youtu.be/IBy5TVNRPlI

I'm not sure a Youtube video is an adequate overview of what a system could sound like.  That said, I am very confident that any Mc amp section will deliver everything your speakers can take.  The depth, silent backdrop and fidelity are exceptional, IMO.

In your case, you've been working with integrated amps for some time, so a MA252 might make a nice upgrade.  In my case, I found the best results with a tube preamp and SS power.  I'm also a jazz fan, but trend more toward big band and fusion.  Full disclosure is appropriate:  I turned in my C2300 for a C50 for reasons that had nothing to do with sound quality.

So, I suggest you consider if you want to go to separates or stick with integrated.  Separates will reveal a lot of detail in the music and enable you to optimize the pre and amp sections to your personal preferences.  I'm a vinyl junkie with 2 tables, so the higher end Mc preamps were good solutions.  I've always preferred SS power, primarily because control over the drivers seems more audibly defined to my ear.

If that seems of interest, you could go with any number of affordable SS amps like the MC7100 I mentioned earlier and a tube pre like a C2200 to accomplish a similar result.  Alternatively, you could go with a MC275 and a C45 or MX unit if you really want to do tube power.  Either of those alternatives could land you below your maximum budget, too.

I strongly suggest an email to Audio Classics as a good investment of time. They really know what they are doing, are Mc experts and genuinely interested in delivering superior value to their customers.  They have been my go-to source for high-end audio for 30+ years, and I can't recommend them highly enough.

Have fun & good hunting!

gte357s OP yes, I hear good thing about the MC275. The only thing is I will need a preamp, which then increase the cost, and one more component to worry about having synergy.

Only decent Mac was the MC275.
Save your money, they don’t need anymore gain from an active preamp. Go direct if your source has volume control or go passive preamp.
They love a 10kohm passive preamp, as they are 90kohm input and have good low input sensitivity of only 1.2v in on the rca input for maximum output watts, most sources today give out more than 2v!! some even 4v!!



Cheers George

The only thing I didn't see is a budget. You have a limit? Mcintosh can be spendy if your not careful.  I've owned Mac for 50 years, you know my position. Not to say there aren't better components out there. I will say the overall brand "Mcintosh" is pretty darn good. 

I like tone control, simple... I like a balance option and A/B/Tape out, options. All of my units do. C11,20,22,2500,MX110,MX120s all have tone control. ALL work very well.. SS power amps.. Different and expensive..

The 252 your speaking of is a good example of the "new" Mac sound.
Is it good?... Very clinical, precise, accurate, dark background, no floor noise, silky smooth especially with CD......I called the MA252 a CDs dream. With an ES Sony the playback was just magical.  The unit was made for CDs simple... These words explain how it sounds to me on a round speaker system... They can put out some good sound... I heard it with B&W. 

MC275 has a few models there. The early ones, look out, they can get very close to 90 watts per rail.  They can also be used in series, paralleled or STRAPPED. You can stack Macs. They are stable @ 2 ohms. You can fry eggs on them too..HOT!!!! They can blast my friend. The later models like the GG, SE (SS), with ICs have a different sound for sure,,, quite different..They are A different AB class of amp..Different transformers too.

There is one thing they surpass all others on, SERVICE. You can get your Mac fixed in Antarctica... really...Half the stuff made today you can't even get a schematic for, Cary Audio is a great example of that.. ....Mac... Good service everywhere, in the world...

Regards

You could consider a classic McIntosh receiver like the mac4300V. You’d get 100W per channel, a nice 5 band EQ, variable loudness and a very nice phono section. Something to consider...

I’m new to this whole Audio world. I have a lot of time on my hands and I’ve been reading these forms and checking stuff out online. I tried Macintosh I never looked back. The stuff holds its value really well and like somebody before me said the service was superb. If you look up a website called the music room. They are used equipment dealer and have lots of Macintosh stuff. The best part is they have a money back guarantee on anything they sell. I think it’s good for 14 days. So, if you buy Macintosh and hate it I think you’re Just out some shipping.

@dill,like another commenter said, don't be sarcastic!!! people on audiogon forum ask for advice!!! if some can't spell, it's ok!!! don't have 'hate' in you!!! there's allready enough in todays world!!!

Only decent Mac was the MC275.

LOL . I think NOT.  You are obviously not familiar with McIntosh
If you like  McIntosh  they made many great amps 
MC30 My Favorite tube amp
MC240 my next fav tube amp
MC2505,2105,2205 My fav solid state amps from McIntosh.
There are many more .
Have you ever wondered why McIntosh amps seem to go UP in value over time. There is a reason why.
Show me any other audio mfg that make products that go up in value over time 

And if you would like to see some High Quality Vintage Audio products 
look here .  https://skyfiaudio.com/
They have some Amazing Equipment , and they are Very Very proud of it 

Thank you for all the feedbacks, need some time to digest all the information.  But using a passive preamp, or go direct from the DAC to the MC275 is something I will look into.   I actually, I don’t know what determines if a preamp is needed.  I definitely don’t need more volume.  My 18w Almarro usually set between 9-11 o’clock, and the colume in my computer is 1/3 - 1/2.  If I play from computer, then yes, I can control volume from in the computer.  I am using a audio-gd NFB3 and still waiting for a Topping dx7 pro.  Below is the product page of the DX7, towards the bottom has RCA output specification, but it doesn’t mentioned anything in ohms or V.  Can I connect it directly to Mc275?  

https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/topping-dx7-pro-es9038pro-dac-headphone-amp-bluetooth-5-0-32bit-7...

Try a Mac. I really don't believe that you'll regret it. Make sure that it has the (controversial) Autoformers. I do like the 2105 best of the ones I've had, but the several that came right after are great as well. Go to Roger Russell's site to become more familiar with the history.

I'd listen to the following potential alternatives too:
AyrePassLuxman
Buy the one you like best.

I have the MC275 paired with C47. Its powering a pair of Sonus Faber Olympica 3. The amp is under powered. I got it because I’ve always wanted tubes. Thinking of getting another MC275 so I can do mono. 
I also have the MC252 hooked up to a set of KEF R3. 
I like to hear my music on the louder side and have to crank it up to 55-60 on both systems. 
It’s more of a look and you’re paying for the brand name. I think they have gotten very snobby and want crazy money and customer service is rude. 

At the end of the day it looks cool sounds good. Its not the most amazing thing since slice bread. 

I have one pc 1st generations MC-275 + Marantz 7. I love both very much even they are very old. But sound still amazing. 

I’m thinking to buy 2 x SS mono block for my home Theater right now. Did anyone can tell how many discount normally?

sorry off topic here.

Hello,
I would call or email ZU and ask them. They have probably heard every combo of there equipment. They could tell you for sure. Good luck. 

I bought my McIntosh MA8900 Integrated from Audio Classics. Great guys, first class treatment even if buying used. I didn't want a Tube Amp, as even the Solid State McIntosh have the classic warm sound they are known for. I'm looking to add a Mac SACD transport next..most likely used. McIntosh retain their value very well and the big blue meters are hypnotizing.
My 2 cents.

I recently purchased a McIntosh MA252 off if this site to replace my older Marantz that tended to overheat pushing my B&W 683s. Tried it out at a local dealer and immediately fell in love they also had it paired with B&W 702s, so I also upgraded to a used set of those. Truly a refined sound. I do not regret either purchase.

I have the MA252 running Maggie 1.7s; I also have a Sony HAP Z1ES digital player (and vinyl too).  The MA252's sound is slightly warm and creamy smooth. A decent amount of detail too.  Since I'm running Maggies, I have to turn the volume up to 60+ to "rock out".   I listen to a lot of jazz and alternative rock.  This integrated is the real deal, but it might not be the best fit for my power-hungry 1.7s.  I'm considering an upgrade the the MA352.  With efficient speakers, the MA252 could be a really nice option.  As has been mentioned above, the look of McIntosh equipment is part of its appeal,  but sound-wise, the equipment that I've heard delivers the goods. By the way, I have a Best Buy Magnolia near me, so I've had the opportunity to listen to some of their BIG solid state & tube amps.  The blue meters are something to behold. 

@dill, there you go again! there's no need to critisize a person because he can't spell! all people wan't is advice and recommendations on this forum! peace to you!!

@g_nakamoto 

Thank you for bringing civility back to this thread.

For the OP, demo if you can. McIntosh and every other manufacturer makes great gear. Some pieces are loved more than others as each has its own sound. In the right system, McIntosh is awesome.

Enjoy the journey. 

To the OP,
The reason the MA252 ‘sounds good with CDs’ and is on the affordable side is because it doesn’t have output transformers.

If you want a classic Mac and classic Mac sound, I suggest getting
a Mac integrated that has output transformers (aka Autoformers).
This may mean buying used but Macs hold their value.

To the OP,
The reason the MA252 ‘sounds good with CDs’ and is on the affordable side is because it doesn’t have output transformers.

If you want a classic Mac and classic Mac sound, I suggest getting
a Mac integrated that has output transformers (aka Autoformers).
This may mean buying used but Macs hold their value.

Hey Dill,

this is not how I spell mackintosh. This is how Siri spells Macintosh. I know how to spell it. I had an accident 2 1/2 years ago that love me a quadriplegic, if you don’t know what that is good means that I can’t use my legs or my hands so I’m dependent on Siri. She’s not the sharpest tool in the shed, sorry about that. I joined this forum a couple months ago because I thought that the audio guys were a nice bunch of dudes. Don’t worry I knew that there was a couple of douche bags mixed in with this form. Nice to meet you

To OP, I purchased a McIntosh MA6600 200wpc integrated with all the bells and whistles including big blue meters from Audio Classics used for $3200.00. It looks brand new And has the great McIntosh house sound.  It is quite heavy, weighing in around 75 pounds out of the box. The sound is to die for, you won’t be disappointed. 

sandthemall is correct. I know from direct personal experience that a Mac without Autoformers does not sound like classic Mac. It is OK, but the smooth solidity and "gravity" is not the same.

How can I tell if certain model has the Autoformers or not?  I don’t see this mentioned in the specifications.  

Amps that put out the same watts into all ohm ratings listed have autoformers. Those that give different power ratings for 4/8 ohms (typically) don’t have autoformers.

@raysmtb1,

Welcome to the audio forum.  I've only been in the forum for about one year, but I've met some really nice individuals that know their stuff when it comes to audio.  REALLY know their stuff and happy to pass on their knowledge.  Many times the information shared back and forth goes over my head, and I'm sure I have asked some questions that have given most members a good chuckle.  But I always get polite answers full of information for the most part....then there are a few dicks as you've found out.  Ignore them as I do -- life's too short to waste time on them.  I'm glad to see that you are tackling the life challenge you've been handed, kudos to you. 

I run dual McIntosh 7300s bridged mono for 600watts per channel with a mc preamp and also have the dual MC275s for when I want tubes. Ran off the McIntosh c2600, I've ran a ton of speakers with this setup. I love the mc sound for me or rivals my vintage Conrad Johnson setup and beats the McCormick and audible illusions system. Yes the meters are cool and all, but the sound it's pure to me, no color and great for vinyl or digital through my dac. 

Great stuff!
if your set on a Mac, your in the correct direction.

Mac gear is amazing, service is great, BUT, buying used gear I believe is NOT serviceable, ONLY TO ORIGINAL purchaser.

tread lightly........

find out before u drop a lot of coin.

The McCormack amps are absolutely no slouch.
  Great service as well, and you can call Steve McCormack and speak to him directly over the phone!!

 The new revamped SMC audio is amazing! 
Double,check the,warranty/service buying a used Mac amp.

Don't forget to try the vintage Mcintosh integrate ma 6850. It blows away all my other Mcintosh ss gear and it was my cheapest Mcintosh purchase. I use it on Harbeth super hl5 plus, on more efficient speakers it's even better.
good luck to you.

I am invested with McIntosh as I have a tube preamp and SS amp- no regrets. 
The questions I would pose are integrated vs separates and used versus new. 
Are there better investments for the money?  Absolutely, yet I am satisfied with the fact I enjoy unwinding with music everyday. 

I never cared for Mcs but probably never listened to them in the right system/room. Got a great deal on a MA 5200 and was very impressed with it. Took some time matching it with various source components and speakers. And it took some time to sound better. 
But it is a keeper for me now and the classic looks and over build are great. Very neutral sound but punchy enough for small-medium size listening room. It would be good to get one with 150 watts or more. Worth the extra if you can. 

I personally have not "Fallen in love" with the Mac sound but have a good bit of respect for it. 
'Subjective as that is'. But, nearly all of them I integrated into my main rig were SS, not tube. Most were also "Vintage". It seemed best to me and also the "easy path", to purchase certain Mac "Paired Set’s". These "set’s", I tried, somehow seemed easier to set-up and complimented each other quite well. Both in their cosmetic attributes, as well as in their sonic capabilities. I had heard many speak well of the MC2105 amplifier paired with the C-28 preamp. "A set I kept in fact". If your patient you could I believe, find this set at your price-point.
Also, The MC2105 has separate gain controls for each channel "Also, these I am thinking, were the original amp with their signature,- Auto-formers!
So no clipping! On the front panel. And some simply use those as the volume/attenuation. So that there is no need for a preamp. I never tried that myself, but I am sure there are those here whom could respond if you wished to know more. A perfectly "Mint", MC2105 should fall into your budget area!

Dude, ignore the negative,

Mac amps are amazing!!

 Just double check the used warranty , as I don’t think there’s any service for a used buyer!

 Go with bryston, odyssey, sanders sound, if it’s an issue.

 If Mac does warranty for secondary owner , go with Mac!

 Make sure Mac does warranty on used gear, if not look elsewhere, or drop the coin and buy new Mac amp.

your call brother!’Be careful!

Beware of the MAC tube integrated amps with your Zu's. I have ZU Omen Defs myself. I wrote MAC and the total output gain is 44db. With the tubes you are looking at super loud tube hiss. I was running a tube pre with a ss, high gain amp with a total of 43db gain...the hiss was unbearable. I had to place a passive pre in between the pre and amp. I now have a tube pre and a low gain FirstWatt amp. 

I say with your speakers...stick with Solid State if you are looking at Mac Integrated amps.

I've got 95db Omega alnico monitors powered by a MHA100 (non autoformer for speaker taps) fed by a MB50 streamer/dac. At spirited volume the meters aren't even hitting 2 watts. I've had class A and tube amps, all separates, some pretty high end stuff in the past and I'm not wanting for anything with this setup. It sounds great, draws very little power, runs cool to the touch and it's nice to know you can leave the house for a while with everything still running. 

Sound wise it's probably not SOTA but what I'm learning is that Mac gear hits that nice balance of performance and enjoyment factor. Think of it in car terms. A Lotus or similar style car will perform better, but will be an uncomfortable ride even in the short term. A nice Benz or BMW will give the average driver all the performance they need, and still be a very comfortable ride in the long term. Think listener fatigue, Mac stuff is often described as smooth. 

I'd imagine your Zu's would sound great with Mac gear. Good luck!

i see 'dill' has deleted some of his comments! 

I did it out of respect for the OP only. Not for those who judge me.

@dill ,

I checked out your system. Congratulations on the Pathos Integrated.  I heard it in upstate New York and it is quite special. Very nice system, enjoy.