I have read a lot about speakers "disappearing" so that one can't tell from where the sound is emanating. But, what about all the stereo tunes where the recordiing engineer intentionally pans the music to come from one side or the other? Can the speakers be made to "disappear" in that situation? Or, is it just the nature of the particular recording?
The easiest way is to get a pair of Martin Logans or other ESL or Planar speaker (I haven’t tried the other ESLs or Planars but I’m assuming they can do this). Mine are not positioned symmetrically within the room or within 1/16th of an inch of their ideal position. I just start the music and the sound appears between, behind and outside the speakers with no indication that the speakers are where the music is coming from. They do need some space from the side and back walls, though. It’s a lot harder to do with box speakers.
I first heard this effect when I bought a pair of Apogee Slant 6s years ago. I could stand between them and it would not sound like the music was coming from the speakers.
Keep in mind that every recording has a different "Recorded Code". So you play a few recordings and the soundstage is fine to you, and there's that next recording that doesn't do so well. It's not that the recording is bad. It's simply that you need to make your adjustments to tune in that code. The more you make your system variable the easier it will be to play any recording.
@bluesy41 ... funny you should mention that method. I was on the Cardas site and came upon his method for speaker placement. It's similar to yours. So, I have each speaker 3' from the side wall, 3' from the back wall, and about 6.5' apart. After measuring, my room is 11'(L)x9'(W)x8'(H). Thank goodness for a laser tape measure. I now have a solid center image and cannot locate sound coming out of either speaker on many recordings. Of course, that also depends on the recording and the engineer's panning preference. All in all, things seem to be working OK, but likely it will remain a work in progress.
@rb61- here’s basic speaker placement steps. start with 3ft from your wall, move forward until you reach the desired bass. Place your L/R speaker 6ft apart. Your listening chair about 6-8ft away creating a triangle. Make small incremental changes until you have the bass you desire and the main musician is front and center from your listening area. Once dialed in you will have a wall of sound and your speakers will disappear. Remember you cannot fix a bad recording.
Nothing scientific here. I put my Advents where the speaker cable reached. They disappear relative to distance back I am. One advantage of a electric wheelchair, precise location of the Sweetspot.
I listen to and have this effect every day regardless of recording or music genre thanks to "The Art of Rational Speaker Placement". My website - myspeakersetup.com for articles and more info.
To make a generalization, the size of your midrange drivers has quite a bit to do with it. I liked the tone that came from the single 10" drivers on my Zu Omens, but a cone that big will never "disappear." I could always close my eyes and know that the good tone I was hearing came from those two drivers in my room.
My B&Ws, by contrast, have double 5" midrange drivers; on good recordings, I close my eyes and perceive musicians playing instruments in space, not speakers pushing soundwaves from two points in my room.
If a given recording is panned fairly hard left and right, then most of the instruments will appear to be coming from the general location in which the left and right speakers are situated. But this is really coincidental.
Disappearing essentially means non-localizable. With a full classical orchestra, the first violins should (normally) equally occupy a swathe of the half-circle in front of you that starts outside the left speaker and continues, with equal volume/intensity, to somewhere inside the left speaker.
Though VERY few achieve it, correctly siting the loudspeakers / coupling them to the room proves pivotal to the overall sound. Imaging, of course, but all facets of the sonic presentation.
Like focusing a lens, it’s either perfectly right or it’s wrong. In fact, I believe the effort spent on loudspeaker placement far more important than money spent in the chase to upgrade from good components to great components or the myriad tweaks folks here debate. You hear continuous, though not linear improvement as you come closer and closer to the ideal loudspeaker position. That’s the biggest reason so many modest systems clearly and easily best many exorbitant systems.
I think you may be confusing the speaker's disappearing with imaging.
You want the speakers to disappear. That is, you don't want to be aware that you have 2 separate sound sources. You DO want to hear the location of the recorded instruments in the sound field. The two are mutually exclusive.
And it should be effortless, with no mental processing or strain, it should be an illusion that does not require you to suspend disbelief.
Good room acoustics are half of this equation. The other half is the speakers. The more neutral the speakers, the more they "stop sounding like speakers" and sound like music.
I can't speak for ALL speakers but for every pair I've had over the past 30+ years, which coincides with when i started paying attention to such matters, placement counts very much in contributing to the disappearing act. With my current speakers a 1/16 difference in the toe in makes a big difference. Totally agree with Milpai. Cabinet enertness also counts so i agree with kosst as well.
I'd have to think the better ones ears are at localizing/pinpointing a sound source, the more difficult it becomes for the sound source to "disappear". The lessor the total number of speakers, the easier it is to detect any particular ones location. And of course the recording, the room/environment, the particular type/design of speakers and their placement certainly play a role.
rlb61 OP234 posts03-24-2018 12:28pm@georgehifi ... thanks. I looked for "DJ 37 Sampler" instead of "Vol. 1." Unfortunately, it’s a digital download only and I’m a CD dinosaur.
I’m sure you can download it on this computer your on, then burn it to disc?
@milpai ... I most definitely agree with you. In my 10x10x8 tiny man-cave, it’s critical to get the measurements on both sides of the room as close to each other as possible.
@kosst_amojan, To each his own. I like the symmetry. Fortunately or unfortunately in my system, even a 1/2 inch difference is audible. Hence I make sure that I place the speakers the way I want. Maybe it is not absolutely required, but hey, when you have the ability and affinity to do it, why not dial in to get the best out of your system.
@milpai ... thanks. That’s what I’ve suspected. I’ve done the whole measuring thing and have my speakers equidistant (front, back and sides) to within about 1/4". That’s about as good as it’s gonna get. The speakers do "disappear" for the most part, but there are those records where it’s just obvious as to the location of the music.
This can happen when you’ve got very good precise imaging and depth, in between and outside the speakers, and if the recording engineer has done it that way. Play the imaging and depth tracks on this setup cd, it will tell you how your system fairs. Tracks 10 11 12
It is dependent on the recording. But first, for the music to disappear, you really have to take the pains to find the best spot for them. Then you have to use a tape measure and make sure that they are equi-distant from back and side walls. Try to get them within 1/8 of an inch precision when you measure from walls. It takes days sometimes. But you will be rewarded. Even if the music is intentionally panned, on a properly recorded music, it would be "free from the speakers" and appear behind and to the side of the speaker. But there are a few not-as-nicely-recorded discs, where the instrument/music refuses to leave the speaker. So, it is completely dependent on the particular recording.
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