Removing spikes... Now my speakers sing


Have you tried to replace the spikes under your speakers, and replace them by footers ?  I find a better unity in the music from my speakers, and beefy sound, and more natural music.
audiosens
Post removed 
Interesting about rolling without the spikes. I'm going that route at first too. Tagged to follow.

audiosens, what type of floor do you have, e.g., hardwood on suspending floor, concrete, carpet over concrete, etc., etc.?

The type of flooring makes a big difference in the outcome.

audiosens, when you say footers, what do you mean? The feet that came with your speakers?
asahitoro, look at this device at Vibrapod.com, it is affordable and great for me.
kalali.  My floor are thin cement floor, covered by wood flooting floor.  A friend of mine make the switch also, he has thicker cement floor, covered by engeniring wood floor, he change the spike for an other model of footer (not like mine Vibrapods)
It depends on the flooring beneath your speakers.  Unfortunately one way is not best for all homes or even systems.  I like using a combo of spikes into Herbies big fat gliders.  This is the best I have heard thus far in my room.  Better than just spikes. I also like spikes into a nice tonewood platform and the platform on Herbies fat gliders.  My floors  are hardwood over floor joists.   
Thanks audiosens,

I actually have a bunch of extra Vibrapods and Vibracones from another setup. I think mine are the thickest (strongest?) version so maybe they can support my KEF Reference Twos?
I tried spikes to herbies gliders over a carpeted suspended wood floors.  I liked the sound spiked directly to the floor.
I've been using Vibrapods for years to decouple speakers from a suspended wood floor and they work perfectly. Speakers are clearer and help make the world a better place, as far as places go.
My speakers sit on a shag rug, on a wood floor.

Thus far, my speakers (several) have all sounded best - tightest, most tonally convincing - simply placed on the rug - no footers or spikes.
Wilson Audio Sophias/Wilson spikes/Herbies Gliders, brass/wood floors over concrete are best for me.
Spikes works best it they can be tightened down completely - and if more than 3 spikes making sure that they properly adjusted so there is no "rocking" - IMO this tightens the bass - improves image etc.

Good Listening

Peter 
Shag rug...is it lime green? That's a fave...
Too many variables in play to recommend a specific approach. The design of the speakers - port in the bottom/front/rear, weight, type of the floor (what's right below the speaker, next layer, etc.), height of the rug, etc., etc. What works for me may and probably will not work for you. Rule of thumb; couple with concrete floor and decouple/isolate from suspending floor. My experience FWIW.
I have listened to IsoAcoustic Gaia demos, and they were very convincing.
What you are doing with the vibrapods is adding mechanical damping to the speaker cabinets. I have been working on this issue for a while doing constrained damping.  In my case this is sorbothane glued to the cabinet with the sorb covered with 4 layers of electrical tape. The effects are amazing. 

Similar things are being done with headphones. Sennheiser used some kind of polymer damping material in the headband of its top models and I would imagine the same for their big bucks electrostat  Grado uses a special polycarbonate and there are several other phones and speakers working in this line. I have my own solutions using sorbothane worked out for Stax phones. That's for another post. You can see some of the history here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/damping-mechanical-energy-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-s...     

I fully expect the area of damping to develop and  make other  current phones and speakers obsolete.  (however one can to post-hoc modifications with sorbothane to just about anything).

Getting back to the original point, I would still say that you have given up some performance from the spiking although obviously you are finding the footers much more effective. However what I am suggesting is keeping the advantages of spiking and damping. They are both aimed at getting rid of cabinet vibration. 
I'm not getting rid of cabinet vibration with Vibrapods, I'm simply not letting it get into the floor where it can be reflected back into the speaker. 

wolf_garcia
I'm not getting rid of cabinet vibration with Vibrapods, I'm simply not letting it get into the floor where it can be reflected back into the speaker.

Pop quiz: find all the things wrong with that statement.
edstrelow
What you are doing with the vibrapods is adding mechanical damping to the speaker cabinets.

Pop quiz! Find all the things wrong with that statement.
what footers (or spikes) work best on travertine tile flooring on solid ground. does it make a difference with boxless speakers (such as Spatial Audio)?
mike
"Find all the things wrong with that statement."

Okay, I'll bite...I think they are both saying the same thing - they are absorbing the cabinet vibrations by adding the damping material...
Buzzz! (sound of obnoxious buzzer)
asahitoro
Use your vibrapods only not the cones question of stability.  You may add 5 or 6 vibrapod to match the weight of your speaker
mikedeu, see the comment from edstrelow, try with sorbotan or other damping thing to make tests, yes there are many different type of speakers and floor.  You have to try and make tests, it is not great expenses
milpai, yes there are many type, but many prices also, some are expensive
grannyring, yes it is a good description "Coherence"
With all the possible combinations of speaker cabinet/flooring interactions possible. there is no one size fits all.Plus the likes of the listener. More bloom? vs tighter sound?Glad the op found something better. but IMO this discussion is not going anyplace.. except to say different stuff works for different situations.
Thanks again audiosens,

I’m going to try my 70 duro 2.5" diameter x .25" thick sorbothane discs too and see how it matches up with the Vibrapods. I agree with elizabeth too. There are so many variables it's best we try a bunch of stuff. Having some good experiences/reports here to build  on helps though.
asahitoro,  After so many years in listening to music, why not helping people with what we have discovered
different stuff works for different situations


Bingo!  That's what I was going to say but probably not with so few words.   Well done!
Different stuff works for different situations? Are you hot doggin me? Cut me some slack, Jack! Is that the engineer’s part of your 🧠  talking? This is your brain. 🧠  This is your brain on drugs. 🍳
I am ALWAYS high.... on music!  
The Government does not know just how good life is on music. If they knew, they would tax it. Or outlaw it.
And I do not even need a prescription!, nor a dealer*..... Well I do need an equipment dealer, and someone to buy albums from.Are they "Drug Dealers?"
I think you just answered your own question. 
I’ll give GK the benefit of the doubt and assume he is just naturally high on himself and there is no escape.
Anybody try the SVS Soundpath feet under their floorstanders?
https://www.amazon.com/SVS-SoundPath-Subwoofer-Isolation-System/dp/B00NCSQ5GK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_produc...

I have them under my HSU sub and definitely noticed an improvement.
Mapman, you probably know this already.

Amish directions in the event you encounter an alien in an aircraft, although I’ve been under the assumption Amish folk are known to have an inborn fear of flying and deep mistrust of technology generally and aviation specifically. But I digress. In case of an alien encounter while in an aircraft,

1) Crawl under your seat & look away,
2) avoid eye contact, and
3) In the absence of eyes, avoid ALL contact.

Good of luck in your quest for the meaning of gravity and it’s opposite, comedy.
I will pass that on from you next time I talk to an Amish person. I’m sure they will be grateful. 
Once you just give in and finally DO have sex with the aliens, everything just makes sense.
Whoa! What?! Too much information! 😫
Liz is high on music again.

Every speaker, floor, room combo is unique as some here have already stated. It might take a while, and a lot of music playing, before you settle on the best combination for your sound.

I now take a variable approach, but in the learning curve past went through different stages of fixes that in time I discovered usually finding a flaw.

here’s a practical example that I went through

When I was the marketer for AudioPoints late 80’s - mid 90’s I found myself needing to do a lot of mods to the setup to get things how I and clients wanted. There is a lot of hit and miss when depending on a cone or spike to make everything perfect or even close. That brass, or other metal, zing is always waiting there to jump out at you. Metals are great but can easily throw a system out whack and lead to fatiguing. Part of the fix to this for me was designing wood Top & Bottom voicing squares. In the mid 90’s I realized I was going to need to make my own cone and spike designs and have been doing so since. Many materials, shapes, sizes and specific applications. Finding a better metal cone or spike though isn’t the end of the story as the OP points out. Developing a system that gives more flexibility to the relationship between speaker/floor/room combos is where the hobby has been heading for the last 20 or so years. Seems like a long time but look how many cones, spikes, pads, feet, platforms, springs, floors, stands and coupling and decoupling devices have been made. Shoot I design and market my own floors and whole rooms. I’ve even designed whole buildings from the ground up, and I can tell you after thousands of the systems I have worked on, there is not necessarily any quick fixes.

Recordings vary, and our Earth is made up of varying forces. And our systems, including room, are producing vibrations, waves, interactive fields, pressure and more. All of which are good things when in tune and bad things out of tune. Everyone here has their system at least slightly different from the next. Whether we agree or disagree on audio debates, you are the master of your own system and never sell yourself short as you discover things that work for you, even if no one else in the hobby seems to think your ideas have merit or not. The more you explore your system the more you are going to discover just how good it really is and how far it can take you. Many people who have moved their same system around will usually tell you that the same system in one space sounds nothing like it did when moving into another, especially from one house type to another.

These types of threads that are based on ones’ personal experience are treasures, because they show how variable this hobby is. For me, it’s like the next chapter of the hobby for HEA. Or as I say on another thread "the walk of the hobby".

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

I think the issue you are having is rocking.

One thing everyone with medium weight speakers should try is adding mass to the top of the speaker, near the front. It reduces the ability of the woofers to rock the cabinet back and forth. Spikes make this tilting easier.

Best,
E
Stillpoint 5's under my Wilson Sophia 3's couple the speakers to the wooden floor, making the whole listening space resonate. 
To reiterate getting all FOUR spikes to carry the weight equally is very important, no matter the flooring. Carpet, tile wood..I used to used a set of slippery thin samples. I would set them under each foot and pull. I knew when the weight was equal by feel of the pull. It is just one way to do it.
Three points determine a plane. Four points do not necessarily determine a plane. That’s plain old plane geometry. Thus, oft times three cones will be less wobbly and sound better than four. For tall heavy speakers four cones can be a little dangerous inasmuch as if someone accidentally bumps into them they can fall over. Which is why large footprint boards should be used under the speaker with the cones under the board. Much more stable.
audiosens
General rule to couple (spike) or de-couple (not spike) speakers to the floor, comes down to what floor you have.

1: Cement slab floor on mother earth (not cement sheet) = spike (couple)

2: Suspended floor wood, sheet, (includes cement sheet) = no spike (decouple)

If you spike a speaker into a suspended floor as in 2, you transfer the bass of the speaker into that floor, making it a sound board for the bass and ruining it.

Cheers George


I've experienced significant gains in transparency and cleanness of sound by decoupling my speakers from my carpeted basement room.  After hearing the improvements in the main speakers, I decoupled the subs.  Have great tight deep bass and greater transparency still as the ruckus inherent in subs. is not vibrating my rack mounted gear.  YMMV.
Generally, it's best to follow the directions of the speaker mfg with regard to whether use spikes or other footers based on type of floor.  You especially don't want to mess with speakers that already account for a certain resonance with their cabinet.  Many speakers use this to their advantage versus trying (usually in vain) to rid all cabinet resonances and floor born resonances.

On the flip side...a lot of speaker makers don't put much effort into their feet/stands.  In those cases, I would actually recommend this one combo that I've found works generally well.  Take the spike footers that come with most speakers/stands and insert them into Oyaide INS-BS pucks.  Whether it's on wood floors or carpet, they seem to have a positive impact for a much more reasonable price than other exotic options.

Another option is to construct a sandbox with a floating top and put your speakers on top of that without spikes.  Nothing dissipates the significant vibrations of speakers while also providing a solid base like sand...especially at a cost effective price.