I use Porter Ports and find them to be very good. Never tried the Hubbells you mention. Maybe buy one of each and try them. You could always sell the one you decide against here on the 'goN.
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Or to confuse you even more or perhaps not.And why create confusion, although I am curious about the voodoocable outlet?
The Hubbell IG8300 datasheet states brass, or is it custom manufactured with phosphor bronze? Then why use phosphor bronze, when this states it's electrical conductivity is inferior to brass?
I do have a fried that tried various outlets, a standard 5362 being one, but not cyroed. He finally settled on the Porter Ports.
You guys do realize that the Porter Port is a cryoed HBL 5362?Then how do you explain the different appearance of the outlets?
HBL5362 @ Cabledyne
Besides the green dot, cover plate mounting holes, and backside of housing, the words "hospital grade" are engraved in the back strap of a Porter Port.
My mistake. Albert did stop using the 8300H a few years ago and switched to the 5362 as Hubbell changed the materials in the 8300H and started manufacturing it with a ferrous backstrap. See here:
It appears that he's now gone back to the 8300 (probably the 8300H by the looks of things).
Having used cryoed versions of both the 8300H and the 5362 personally, I can tell you that there is not much of an audible difference between them. I might give a very slight edge to the older version of the 8300H with the non ferrous backstrap-not sure about the new version as I haven't heard it.
The 8300H is a "slim line" hospital grade, so has a much smaller chassis than the 5362 which might be of benefit if you are putting them into an existing power strip or conditioner. To the best of my knowledge the current 5362 is still completely non-ferrous; not sure about the newer version of the Porter Ports.
As to the actual contacts, the differences were always minimal between the 8300H and the 5362; as I recall the 8300H had very slightly (and I mean very slightly) beefier contacts. In my experience it would be very difficult to distinguish between cryoed versions of those receptacles.
At a considerably lower cost (33% is considerably lower in my book), I'd take a cryoed 5362 over a cryoed 8300H unless you needed the much smaller chassis of the slim line hospital grade.
Thanks for your inputs, but i was hoping more in the direction of any first hand experience with the cryoed Hubbell HBL5362 sold by Cabledyne and/or whether anyone had a chance to compare these with the Porter Ports.
By the way currently I have dedicated a/c lines with an FIM 880 receptacle for each of my mono amps, while my CD and Pre are plugged in standard Legrand receptacles.
i always appreciate your enlightening contributions in such threads and will buy both (Cabledyne and Porter) for comparison.
I have also just purchased two HBL8300H (non cryo) and will do a comparison of my FIM 880, the Cabledyne HBL5632 cryo, the Porter Port 8300H cryo and the standard HBL8300H (non cryo). Will post results of my findings in my system/room.
Good luck with that-you'll be busy! No experience with the FIM here, but I am still using cryoed versions of the HBL 5362 and 8300H in my line conditioner. I think you'll find pretty big differences between the non-cryoed 8300H (check to see if they now have a steel backstrap as opposed to the 5362's which is brass-the old 8300H's used to be all brass and non-ferrous on the backstrap!) and the cryoed 5362 and 8300H but not so much difference between the cryoed 5362 and 8300H.
For what it's worth, I'm now running a cryoed Oyaide R1, along with the Oyaide wall plate at the wall as the main feed to my system and line conditioner. Never thought I'd spend that kind of money on a receptacle (I did end up e-baying the wall plate at a significant discount) but someone sent me a non-cryoed R1 to try out and I was hooked.
But definitely a lot more money than the cryoed Hubbells, which still represent really great value for money in the $25-$35 range (the Cabledyne's are very reasonably priced at $25 inc. delivery) and a huge upgrade for anyone coming from a stock receptacle.
I tend to agree with Sonic Genius on the isolated ground thing with a typical residential installation. It should be noted, though, (should have made it more clear in my earlier post) that the slimline Hubbell 8300H does have Olin 688 brass non-plated contacts (as does the 5362) unlike the standard Hubbell 8300 which has (like most hospital grades) nickel plated contacts and the full size body of the 5362.
Lall: You will have a lengthy break in period with all those receptacles. It's hard to do when they arrive (as you want to get them into your system right away!) but I'd really recommend you slot them into your house where you can have a very high current draw device like a refrigerator or chest freezer draw on each half of the receptacle for about a week and a half before you put them into your system.
thanks again for your insightful suggestion. Just inspected my newly received Hubbell 8300H (with a green dot). Oddly though, on the box its written Hubbell 8300H and nowhere i can find the wordings "HBL8300H" whereas those used by Porter (http://new.audiogon.com/listings/porter-port-20-amp-porter-ports-cryo-ivory-or-white-color--11) has the wordings Hubbell HBL8300H clearly written in the ads. In my case the letters HBL is missing.
Is Hubbell 8300H with green dot different from Hubbell HBL8300H? Why can't Hubbell simply use straight forward model identification numbers to label their products? Why are they creating confusion? And their catalogue does not offer much help in terms of differentiating between these models?
I've even seen on ebay Hubbells clearly with writings "made in China" being advertised as genuine Hubbell US products.
For your info, this is what I just purchased and received.
Is it the same receptacle used to make Porter Ports after modifications ? (i.e. the cryo; brass contact materials etc. (non nickel plated)? confusion, confusion ....
Lall: The one thing that disturbs me a bit about the e-bay link is that there is no HBL designation on the box. I have a couple of Hubbell boxes here, one from 2004 and another one from a few years ago (which was probably old stock), one for an 8200H and one for a 5262 and both boxes clearly have the HBL designation printed in front of the model #. The 8200H box is stickered, as yours is, but a slightly different sticker. The 5262 box I have is printed only, no sticker on the end of the box.
That being said, the receptacle in the photo does appear to be an 8300H compact slimline receptacle. I would expect, however, that it is very old stock, perhaps 10 years plus. There's not anything wrong with that and some might argue the old 8300H is superior as a result of having the brass, non-ferrous backstrap and mounting.
Is it an optical illusion or is there a chunk out of one of the holes in the receptacle? The box looks pretty ratty as well, the combination of the two leading me to believe that the receptacle might be used.
You can establish whether the contacts are plated by simply shining a flashlight into the recpetacle to check them out. If they're a shiny, silver colour, they're nickel plated and you definitely don't have a HBL 8300H; if not they should be dull gold, and that would inidcate a pretty high probability that you've got an 8300H with non-plated contacts, albeit probably quite an old one.
Just an educated guess here: unless Hubbell has started to manufacture the HBL 8300H with a brass backstrap again, I would expect your Porter Ports to be similar to what you have there with the exception of the backstrap and mounting, which would be a dull silver colour on the new Porter Ports if they're steel. Albert could jump in to clarify perhaps if he sees this thread.
The HBL8300GY I have are nickel plated contacts. The HBL5362 is the one you want and sounds just as good Furutech FTX golds, IMO. The Hubbell product codes are misleading. See the cabledyne blog that explains this in detail.
HDM, Old or new stock 8300H, I don't mind as long as they sound good to me and, in my case, free from edge and harshness, and i certainly don't mind a touch of warmth if at all that's possible from an outlet. The revelator tweeters of my Kharmas are known for their aggressiveness in the highs and particularly in female voice.
Sonic genius, i read somewhere that the H versions of the Hubbell 8300 (i.e. ending with an H) are slimmer and are of unplated brass. If that is true then fine but, again, I've read conflicting descriptions in different Hubbell catalogues, some stating that the contact materials of 8300H are Ni plated brass, others stating they are of brass, and also same conflicting descriptions I've read regarding Hubbell HBL5362.
HBL 8200H (I have 3 of them here) and HBL 8300H have always been compact hospital grades with unplated Olin 688 brass contacts.
HBL 8200/8300 (have at least 3 of those here as well) is an entirely different receptacle, a typical full sized hospital grade with Olin 688 brass nickel plated contacts.
HBL 5262/5362 (have at least 3 of those here too) have always been full sized "specification grade" receptacles with Olin 688 brass non-plated contacts.
HBL 8300GY is simply a grey 8300. If you had a grey 8300H it would be HBL 8300HGY, a white 8300 would be HBL 8300W, a white 8300H would be HBL 8300HW, etc.
There's really not much confusing about the Hubbell catalog numbers if you know one thing: the better quality receptacles all share the prefix HBL while the lower quality contractor grades from Hubbell have a CR prefix. That is what Cabledyne is referring to on their website, although they could have done a better job on it and really spelled it out. Check out the price difference doing a google search on a Hubbell HBL 5362 vs. a Hubbell CR 5362. The key is to NOT buy the CR designated Hubbells.
As far as the 8300H being "special order", the only thing special order about it is that it is typically not stocked. Go to any Hubbell retailer, ask them to order it for you and you'll have it in a week.
Hope this helps eliminate some of the confusion.
Hdm, i honestly feel you are an asset to the audiogon community.. keep up with the good contibution of imparting your experience and first hand knowledge.. better than any Hubbell catalogue.. imho
Theaudiotweak, I believe you make a very interesting and possibly very valuable suggestion. ... need some more research and comparative experience from fellow audiogoners to test this hypothesis.... contributions cordially invited..
Thanks very much for the compliment Lall! One of those makes up for all of the sarcastic comments from those who feel that receptacles in audio are all about snakeoil.
I have experience with a number of receptacles (most of the experimentation I did was about 10 years ago) but certainly not all and I can only say what has worked for me-there are lots of receptacles out there, including many that I don't have experience with and subjective preferences and system synergy certainly come into play so it's not a "one size fits all" thing.
That being said, I'd agree with the Audiotweak that resonance control does come into play (that idea is probably even more controversial than the effect of the receptacle itself). Current audio overkill resonance control with receptacles would probably be represented by the Furutech GTX wall plate:
which I have no experience with, and the Oyaide WPC-Z:
which I do.
I was given the opportunity to evaluate an Oyaide R1 and WPC-Z at no cost a few years ago. You'll have to dig into the thread a bit but if you'd like to read about my experience with that, the info is here:
I have pondered over your last post, .. your hypothesis does make sense to me along the same line of thinking taken forward by Hdm... less resonance hence less noise in the system. Don't know if this would apply in my case though.. I have 4 duplex receptacles (each one feeding my mono amps, cd and preamp separately) but only one plug goes into a duplex receptacle.. that is only one of the two outlets of each duplex is utilized and the other one remains empty. Would the resonance factor in my case be as prominent if both outlets of each duplex were fully being utilized at the same time...
The single plug has less mass suspended upon the same amount of brass so the plug will transfer resonance faster. There are many more things that can be done to complete this whole transfer process. The empty plug test could provide insight if you used a cheater plug and stick it in the unused receptacle. This way you would be filling the empty contacts and have only one variable. Let us know. Tom
I Have not heard from Lall yet but a friend and I just completed some outlet testing. The comparison was done between the Hubbell HBL5362 cryo industrial grade and a Hubbell 8300 cryo hospital grade outlets. The 5362 is all brass and the 8300 is nickel plated brass. I will be brief here since many would like Cliffs.
5362: Solid bass, warm mids, and neutral highs.
8300: Thin bass, neutral mids, bright highs.
The 8300 was once popular but it is clear to me that the 5362 is the winner. JMO, YMMV.
Nice to see what others are saying.
Details of my shootout and findings:
- CD player – Audio Aero Capitole Ref SE
- Preamp – de Havilland Mercury 2
- Power Amp – KR Audio VT 8000 monos (push pull using GE 6550A tubes)
- Speakers – Kharma 1.2 CRM with Revelator tweeters
- Power cords: A pair of Kharma Grand Ref (on CD and Preamp) and a pair of
Harmonix Studio Master (on mono amps)
- Interconnects – CD to Preamp: JPS Labs Superconductor 3
Preamp to amps: various (JPS Labs Superconductor 3; Fusion
Audio Romance IC2 & Harmonix Golden Performance SUS)
- Speaker cables – Jorma UNITY & Cardas Golden Hexlink 5C
- Dedicated Audio Room 16 ft x 24 ft; sloping ceiling height 8ft to 20ft
- 3 Dedicated power lines each connected to a duplex receptacle.
- Walls are in concrete with some room treatments. Fully carpeted room.
- Caveat: my room is quite lively; my Kharmas are known to be bright, hence I consider my system to be more bright than neutral.
- All outlets were burnt in for at least 15 days immediately prior to the tests.
- Music played during the tests: Diana Krall; Alison Krauss (Jacobs’ dream); Vivaldi (four seasons "Winter" by Iona Brown); Eric Satie (solo pianos); Nils Lofgren (Acoustic Live); Carmen sings for Kharma; Naim CD sampler; Kenny G (saxophone); and various other classical albums.
Prior to the shootout, I was using a separate FIM Gold 880 duplex receptacle to power each mono amp; and a Legrand duplex outlet for my CD and Preamp.
The shootout comprised four different sets of tests:
Test 1: I successively replaced the two FIM Gold outlets by the test receptacles [Porter Ports, Cabledyne Cryoed Hubbell 5362; Hubbell 8300 (non cryo)] while keeping the source equipments plugged into the Legrand outlet
Test 2: Same as Test 1 with the only change being the source equipments now connected to a third Cabledyne Cryoed Hubbell 5362 duplex outlet.
Test 3: Same as Test 1 except that the Legrand outlet was replaced by a FIM Gold 880 outlet.
Test 4: Same as Test 1 except that the Legrand outlet was replaced by a Hubbell 8300 outlet.
RESULTS & OVERALL FINDINGS
FIM GOLD – Big and powerful bass, but soft rounded up sound and somewhat bloated bass and at times lacking liveliness and dynamism especially in large orchestral swings and female vocals.
PORTER PORTS – Clean and powerful extended treble and generally very good on vocals and piano. A tad thin but I noticed its aggressivity and glare on a number of tracks especially classicals. Nearly bled my ears out during Vivaldi’s Four seasons violin track performed by Iona Brown and at high volumes.
CABLEDYNE HUBBELL 5362 (Cryo) – Good overall outlet, with powerful solid and generally tight bass, with a sweet top end. Non fatiguing, natural sounding and very listenable during extended periods of time and high volumes. On some tracks, the bass was a bit bloated and lacked some liveliness compared to the Porter Ports.
HUBBELL 8300 (non cryo but all copper version old stock item) – Surprisingly good outlet at times very close to Porter Ports and at other times closer to the Cabledyne 5362. Good bass and treble, non fatiguing, less aggressive than Porter Ports (on same tracks) but definitely without the sweet top end of the Cabledyne 5362.
LEGRAND – Very lively but also with considerable glare hence considered as being bright in my system. When replaced by the FIM Gold on my source equipments (CD & Preamp), the sound became too laid back and flat and not enjoyable at all. When replaced by Porter Ports and Cabledyne, and Hubbell 8300, my system got back a good portion of the liveliness but without the glare. This outlet may do wonders in awakening a dull system.
In conclusion, in my system and room acoustics, I found the Cabledyne 5362 outlets to be a considerably better match for taste than the other outlets used. My system is now completely wired through these three Cabledyne outlets. I like the honest sound, not overemphasized bass or treble, sweet top end and also its ability to remove glare from my system. Is the Cabledyne the ultimate or perfect outlet for my system? Certainly not as at times I would have preferred a tighter bass on some tracks but at the end of the day I really liked the sweet top end it added to my listening.
The Hubbell 8300s (non cryo – all copper version) deserve a special mention and I could have easily lived with them. Considering the price I paid ($2.50 each on ebay), this should be one of my best ever purchases. I will therefore use these two outlets in my second system.
The Porter Ports are a good honest outlet which may probably outperform the other outlets in a less brighter system and for those looking for a neutral sound.
My overall ranking based on the above tests are as follows:-
1. Cabledyne Cryoed Hubbell 5362
2. Hubbell 8300 (non cryo) – old stock all copper version
3. Porter Ports
5. FIM Gold 880
I wish to stress that the above findings & conclusions are the results of my own, independent, unbiased, honest and personal tests in my specific system at my home place. I have absolutely no connections whatsoever with any of the above tested products or their manufacturers/marketers.
Thanks for that. A lot of work, as I well know. Not a lot of surprises there for me but perhaps one. I can see the P&S Legrand and the FIM finishing where they did as they are such very different receptacles, almost polar opposites I think; you definitely cannot describe either one as being anything close to neutral!
I don't know much about the Cabledynes (but have a lot of experience with cryoed HBL 5362's) but if they were broken in by the manufacturer before shipping on something like the Audiodharma cable cooker, this would have a pretty big effect on things-my thought is that the Porter Ports, if they were brand new, still might need another week or two of break in.
The old Hubbell 8300H is a very good receptacle (and one that Albert used to use for the Porter Ports). I'm curious: do the Porter Ports have a strong physical resemblance to the 8300H (non-cryo) that you have there?
Do they have the same physical dimensions (ie. substantially shallower than the Cabledyne 5362) as the old stock 8300H's you have and do the current Porter Ports have the same brass (gold coloured) backstrap as the old stock 8300H's that you used or do they appear to have a (silver) steel backstrap?
Sonic genius, Hdm and Lak: i sincerely appreciate your comments but i have to give credit to you guys and your previous posts on this site which pushed me into trying out new outlets. I must say that with the addition in my system of the 3 new outlets, as well as the Fusion Audio Romance IC2 & JPS 3 interconnects and the GE 6550A tubes, i have now achieved the level of performance i was aiming for a long time.
I have to say that the Cabledyne 5362 is the HBL 5362 cryoed which cost me $25 ea. including shipping & paypal fees.
HDM, the two Porter Porters i used were well broken in as they had been in use for more than a year by a friend who loaned them out to me for the shootout. On the other hand the HBL 8300 and the Cabledyne HBL 5362 were brand new but with some 15 days break in. I would be perfectly happy if i find no further change in performance of the Cabledynes with time as i already like what i am hearing.
Also, yes the Porter Ports and the Hubbell 8300s (non-cryo) are almost identical, physically speaking. Also they have identical gold (or copper) coloured back straps. No silver/nickel colour back straps. It may well be that the only difference between the two is the cryo treatment.
But the Cabledyne HBL 5362 is much thicker and heavier than the Porter Ports, HBL 8300 or the FIMs. Almost 50% bigger (deeper) and heavier. From the front however, they are of the same dimensions and thus the same faceplate fits nicely into each and every outlet tested.
My Kharma Grand Ref. power cords are very thick and terminated with ultra big US type plugs/connectors. The bigger/deeper Cabledyne outlets certainly provided a tighter grip for them. With the FIMs, these powercords were quite lose in the outlets and the only way to prevent them from coming out was to put a small vertical stand/support under each Kharma plugs. No such problems encoutered with the Cabledynes. Withe the Porter Ports and the Hubbell 8300s, the grip was tighter than the FIMs probably because these outlets were still new and their grips worked well though not as tight as the Cabledynes.
The Cabledyne is a cyoed version of the standard industrial grade Hubbell HBL5362, according to what i read from their website.
Also for those using 6550/KT88 tubes in their systems, i would strongly recommend trying out the GE 6550 tubes before splashing out serious money on other equipments. In my system, the performance jump compared to my Gold Lions and the very expensive KR KT88 was nothing less than phenomenal. The music became so clean clean clean... refined, with a bloom in the midrange.. almost orgasmic sensation...and am not kidding! It costs nothing to try.
I was about to spend come $10K on new speakers (the Kharmas weere giving me serious head and ear aches) but the addition of the Cabledynes, JPS 3, Fusion Audio and GE 6550 tubes have now helped me to better appreciate my Kharmas.
I will shortly update the equipments list of my system on my audiogon page to to listed above in this thread.
I am now curious to compare the HBL5362 with some of the high end outlets. The Furutech FPX Gold is copper instead of brass. I ordered it from Cabledyne. I also ordered a Oyaide Power Receptacle SWO-GX+ ULTIMO Gold from Revolution Audio. Long Labor Day weekend for me.
If you like the cryoed HBL 5362 (and there is a lot to like about it), I'd recommend that you leap from the mid tier Furutech and Oyaide receptacles and move right up to the Oyaide R1 or R0 or the Furutech GTX (and their respective wall plates).
I have a cryoed Oyaide R1 (in the WPC-Z wall plate which I bought heavily discounted on Ebay); it's important to understand that, unlike Furutech, Oyaide does not cryo their receptacles. My experience with the R1 is that it is better cryoed. Furutechs come cryoed in stock form-if you want cryo with Oyaide you'll need to seek out a seller who has the units cryoed.
A non cryoed R1 is, interestingly, still better than a cryoed HBL 5362, and a cryoed R1 better still but the R1 has a very similar sonic signature to the HBL 5362. Think of them as cryoed HBL 5362's on steroids.
The new Oyaide R0 is getting some rave reviews and the Furutech GTX (in either rhodium or gold-rhodium should be a bit more detailed and forward, gold a bit more laid back so choose your poison) is also extremely highly thought of and preferred by some who have experience with both the Furutech and Oyaide.
So some interesting options out there but they are pricey when you look at R1/R0 or Furutech GTX with their respective wall plates.
Finally, the two R1's that I've used (cryoed and non-cryoed) required extensive burn in. If they are not conditioned on something like the Audiodharma before being shipped, or not burned in on a high current device like a fridge or chest freezer for a least a month, they are going to be a bit bright and etched. My recommendation would be to purchase from a Vendor (like Cabledyne) who preconditions the receptacle on the Audiodharma before shipping it out.
Even with heavy preconditioning on the Audiodharma, the cryoed R1 I ended up with took a good 4-5 days to settle; without that it would have been 30 days plus, possibly longer.
Hdm, thanks for your suggestions regarding moving up to the Oyaide/Furutech outlets. During my shootout, I found out that almost each and every piece of equipment/cable/outlet etc. imparts its own character/flavour to the final music i was hearing. Since my system is quite revealing, i could make out the difference whenever i changed equipments or cables within seconds. In my system I have now achieved a very satisfactory level of performance with a nice balance between resolution, bass, tonality, sweetness and glare (or lack of it).
So I am apprehensive in trying new things at this stage as I am certain that the outlets you suggest will change/alter what i am presently hearing. In my system and for my taste it may be a good or not so good thing. So am not prepared to take that risk at least for some time.
Let me tell you that I have two speaker cables (Cardas Golden Hexlink 5C and the ultra expensive Jorma Unity but on most music i am playing, I prefer the Cardas to the Jorma. This is my taste and maybe the special aspects of my room acoustics and overall system make that combination sound great to me and my taste.
Hope you understand.
As you know there comes a time when one grows tired of making all the comparisons and tweaks and just wants to relax and enjoy the music. I believe thats where I am now at this particular time in life. A few years ago (or more LOL) I stopped auditioning outlets and I fell behind the curve of knowledge, but I still enjoy reading these posts :-).