At the Bestbuy near me the Magnolia room is located in the rear corner of the store and if you didn't know it was there you could easily miss it, and don't see many people in there anyhow, particularly younger people.
There was a line around the building though to try out the new Mario Bros Smashfest game that hadn't been released yet. There may be some renewed interest in turntables because they're "kind of cool" but like how others have stated many will invest in decent headphones to use with their smartphones not with an audio rig.
I realize you don't have to spend a fortune to get decent sound but most aren't willing to invest the time or resources pursuing it and are more than content with their Iphones.
There are just far too many competing choices for peoples time these days and the price of entry remains a barrier for many |
Brands like Krell, Sunfire, Mark Levinson, Pass and even some large tube brands like VTL, VAC may be soon sold via BestBuy stores(Martin Logan, NAD, Paradigm are already there).
Above assumed manufacturers will come up with either price reduction or specific models they'd like to sell via BestBuy to the larger general public.
As a retailer I personally admire BestBuy customer service and business strategy and see the future in this giant to be able to promote our dying hobby. |
Best Buy faces a lot of competition these days. A common business strategy to combat that is focus on service and quality. With the right approach a chain like Best Buy offering very good audio products that one can actually hear and audition before buying might not be a bad piece of strategy, to fill a void that might appeal to some.
They already charge top dollar for most accessories, so why not the big ticket items that fuel those as well. That might give them something to work with to compete against Amazon for example.
B&M stores these days have to offer unique value not available via ebusiness, or else.... |
Todays generation has been abducted by sensory overload and most do not have the attention span to sit down and focus on the nuance of great music. Music is something that is background noise while doing homework, texting, facebooking etc. My 20 year old daughter has no interest in sitting down and just listening to an album. My kids can't even sit through a family meal without being connected to some kind of electronic device. |
My 22 year old daughter produces live shows, which is great for somebody with an Art History degree... |
"High End" is a pretentious word coined by Harry Pearson. Maybe because the word "Hi-Fidelity" lost its original intent of meaning during the 60's when everything was referred to as "Hi-Fi" or "Hi-Fidelity? Don't know for sure, maybe Harry could clue us in to why he came up with the term in the first place. To me it has absolutely no meaning to differentiate a 1K system from a 1000K system for that matter. I really don't like the term myself. If it means money spent how much and furthermore so what? We purchase what we can afford and there is plenty of excellent "Hi End" gear that is affordable.
There will always be the 1-5%er's that want to hear their music well reproduced. I do agree with many of the posts above except for the one's that state the industry is close to death. Certainly agree not for an unconcious lack of trying. It has done an abysmal job of marketing itself. The continuing trend towards unjustifiably higher prices seems a concious decision by some in the industry to chase after the slow rather than fast buck, a "Stairway to the Stars" approach. Fortunately there are some manufacturers' that continue to design and market superb products at prices that average music lovers can actually afford. At least those 1-5%er's that are interested enough to seek them out. And yes, kids today have too many distractions, concerns and technologies to choose from but even among them there are those that are potential customers although that quaint notion that we the dinos have for the realization of well reproduced music in our homes will quite likely morph into something quite different in the future IME. 2 channel stereo played back through mega buck ostentatious sound systems is NOT the future of this industry but will remain a fringe of the fringe. Well reproduced music will survive for both music enthusiasts AND audiophiles and those that call themself both.
And back to the future we go, vinyl anyone and why not? If there is a renaissance in that format there must be a reason, like it STILL is more involving musically than digital maybe? Nah the answer couldn't be THAT simple to those that don't hear or believe it. |
audiophiles are born, not made. that's my take. It's an inborn need to search for better sound and eventually possess it. It's the notion that rack systems and Ipods don't cut it and so begins the journey. Not everyone has this inside of them. |
Really like this forum except Wolf putting me down. Glad to hear there is still creativity out there. I don't have time to find it. Would sure like to hear it on the top 40. Putting down my Fleetwood Mac?!! Now there's high end snobbery and fightin' words. |
BTW, I think the comment on the ipod is incorrect. I think it is capable high quality audio, but most (many) people don't know it. |
Where are you, big bad wolf? Are you listening to a live recording of Big Love and the following track on The Dance Landslide by the most underrated guitarist of his generation which features only Lindsey and his guitar and then Stevie and Lindsey's guitar and which awes everyone who hears it on my system? Or are you, as I suspect, paralyzed with PTS from your ancient musical lobotomy? |
Sad to say that the Magnolias in my city probably offer the best customer service. The sales staff may not be the most knowledgeable bunch but they are leaps and bounds more personable than the stiffs that work in the local HiFi shops.
That is part of the reason I feel like the brick and mortar stores are falling to the wayside. I would much rather take a chance on buying gear off here either new or used than deal with the apathetic owners if the shops. |
Fleetwood Mac are certainly successful (I saw 'em live by accident once and they were great)...Christine McVie has an amazing voice and has rejoined them I think. My point is that there are other people out there who are worthy of attention and every bit as good as the mainstream stuff you may enjoy...I hope I've simplified this point enough for the top 40 aficionados among us. |
Minorl has it exactly right; as does Wolf re the state of music today. As much as I hate to say it one the biggest obstacles to the success of the High End may be audiophiles ourselves. The cynicism and negativity passing for "reality" as demonstrated so far is amazing. What a bunch of curmudgeons we are. "Snobbery" in the High End? What is more snobbish than being intent on considering oneself part of "a dieing breed". I have been reading and hearing about the death of quality audio for years and it is still here; and it is thriving as far as I can see. I see more manufacturers of quality gear than ever before (noticed how many manufacturers of quality TURNTABLES! we have now?), and in the 40+ years that I have played in this hobby I have never seen so much value offered in spite of the cries that gear is too expensive. Who says we are entitled to have the best? Instead of celebrating the fact that gear that is less than sota is still far better than much of the "best" of 40 years ago, we go around being pissed off that we cant afford the best; not a good perspective imo.
As has been pointed out, there will always be demand for gear that is a cut above. The High End is here to stay. |
Either you've got this high-end bug or you don't. I remember being awestruck the first time I saw my uncle's receiver... he laughed... took it off the shelf and gave it to me. The first time I heard a pair of AR 3's I stood there like a deer in the headlights. |
There's also the Peter Green Fleetwood Mac which was an entirely different creature and doesn't seem to get the respect they deserve. I do agree though Lindsey is an under rated guitar player as is Zappa |
I'm still waiting on that chance encounter of meeting or running into a fellow audiophile by accident |
Neither is the high end bug contagious. While many have found themselves in my listening room and some have made small improvements in their own systems, none have been willing to sell his/her soul for the endorphins.
I'm waiting for the chance encounter but not expecting it. |
In the world of "musician appreciation," Peter Green is generally considered a guitar god, Zappa is and was one of the most respected composers and guitar players of his generation, and Lindsey Buckingham is a gazillionaire uber successful dude who is still touring and making his millions of fans happy...maybe a we need new definition of underrated around here. |
I'm still waiting on that chance encounter of meeting or running into a fellow audiophile by accident Don't worry, they are out there. I formed the LVAC (Las Vegas Audio Club) about a year ago and at the moment we're not real big in numbers (about 13-14 people) but the camaraderie is great. I didn't think it would go anywhere, but it has. I am surprised at this. For more info, check out the audio clubs section here under "Las Vegas." And check out our blog: lavegasaudioclub.blogspot.com Thanks! |
Lately I've been checking out the TV show 'Kitchen Nightmares'. Wouldn't it be great to have a show like this but with Audio shops instead of restaurants with hidden cameras and a Gordon Ramsey-ish audio guy coming to critique and go nose to nose with some of these shops!? Of course there will never be enough interest in a show like this so it'll never happen. I remember decades ago when one of the audio digests, TAS or S'phile, ran a series of articles (or was it letters?) encouraging people to write in about shitty customer service and bad manners in the shops. With most brick and mortar shops currently on life support, it surprises me when I read about boorish behavior in the shops. You'd think they'd know better by now. |
it surprises me when I read about boorish behavior in the shops. You'd think they'd know better by now. True. And they're probably trapped in their own little world, but I can't say for sure... |
Keep in mind that this is primarily a North American problem. And it's due to a number of factors, most of which have already been addressed here. However, audio (and high end audio) is thriving elsewhere in the world, especially in the Far East! |
My 18 year old son has no regard for my 2 "speaker based rigs" and even shrugs at my headphone system with Beyerdynamic T1 cans and Ray Samuels Raptor Headphone amp. |
I mentioned Peter Green because he was in the original Fleetwood Mac band. Many people don't realize how great a guitar player Frank Zappa was, and while we're at it how about a shout out for Mike Bloomfield as well |
"06-21-14: Dave_72
Keep in mind that this is primarily a North American problem. And it's due to a number of factors, most of which have already been addressed here. However, audio (and high end audio) is thriving elsewhere in the world, especially in the Far East!"
He's exactly right on that. If you've ever been to CES, most of the people there are Asian. (I'm talking about the high end section in the hotels, not the convention center). I have a couple of friends that are into vintage tube gear. They can't find enough stuff to buy and ship overseas fast enough. Huge crates packed with gear. They send it all to China. |
Thank you. That's what I was getting at. China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, even India...all crazy about hi-fi and high end audio. It's almost fully ingrained into their cultures its that popular. There's Europe too, but not as much. |
I have heard from a couple of USA manufacturers that 75% of their business is from Asia. Rather ironic that most Americans buy Asian audio gear while the Asians are buying American gear. |
Jmcgrogan2, it is interesting that the Japanese people love american made audio gear and motorcycles. Last time I read they also embrace the American 1950's lifestyle. I don't think they have bought into the new hip hop scene. I wonder what manufacturers from Asia that Americans seek. |
Actually, PhD, I was in Japan two months ago and was flabbergasted at just how much hip hop culture has influenced pop culture there. It is very obvious in TV programming and commercials and the way young people dress. Rap in Japanese is something to experience :-) In Korea it was even more prevalent.
While it is true that in Asia there is a deep interest in most things American I think the overriding issue (as much as one can fairly generalize about these things) is that the Japanese love quality; not only American quality. The main reason for the soaring price of certain French made vintage musical instruments is the hoarding by Japanese collectors. |
Frogman, that is very interesting, I had thought there would be pockets of interest for hip hop but the last time I was in Japan was the early eighties. Thanks for the heads up. |
06-22-14: Phd
I wonder what manufacturers from Asia that Americans seek. I'm speaking for the vast majority of Americans. Sony, Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, etc., sell audio gear to the vast majority of Americans. In the high end scene there are Shindo, Allnic, Accuphase, Air Tight, and many, many others. I didn't even start to list the hundreds of Chinese manufacturers who sell lots of gear to Americans, or many of the phono cartridge manufacturers. Far too many to list. |
And most of the Sony, Marantz, Pioneer, Denon, etc. that is sold here is Chinese (or Malaysian like most of Onkyo, which is better to me) made! I don't think Japanese high end like Accuphase and Luxman is all that big here in the US, I could be wrong though... |
I don't wish to start a battle between which Asian country makes which brand of gear. My original comment was simply noting the irony that while we Americans tend to buy Asian made gear, the Asian market is buying more American made gear.
Americans tend to buy more Sony, Denon, Marantz, etc., while the Asians buy more ARC, VAC, Rowland, etc. |
Yes I know. I was simply stating the facts. I'll be more than happy to knock it off. :D But anyway, yeah that's very interesting. Why do you think that is? Because Americans have lower standards of quality, or could it be Americans are obsessed with low prices and think they can get stereo equipment what it cost 40 years ago...which in a few cases is true, but the quality is not there, imo. |
I meant to say "high quality stereo equipment." Thanks. |
In regard to standards of quality, mid-fi and hi-fi have improved since I discovered audio in the early 80's (except for speakers). So I'd have to say standards aren't lower. We tend to get more fidelity for the money.
I'm ready to get hammered on this one. |
I think it is because Asians tend to place more emphasis on music in their lives. It's a matter of cultural values, IMHO. There are many Asians at American HiFi shows. Also, many in my local Philharmonic Orchestra also happen to be Asians. I do not think that music or music reproduction is on such a high scale in the American way of life.
Asians, in general, seem to place a much greater value on music and musical reproduction than Americans do. I'm ready to get hammered on this one. |
I bet Americans spend as much or more on music, going to concerts, etc as any culture but drinking is the number 1 social activity and you don't need a $50k stereo to have fun when your slamming down beer and whiskey. Now that weed is gaining legal ground maybe people will be more apt to get high and listen to pink floyd and seek better stereos like we have. |
maybe people will be more apt to get high and listen to pink floyd and seek better stereos like we have. We can only hope! lol. Stranger things have happened... |
In regard to standards of quality, mid-fi and hi-fi have improved since I discovered audio in the early 80's (except for speakers). So I'd have to say standards aren't lower. We tend to get more fidelity for the money. In some cases, yes. But what I see is poorer build quality and parts quality compared to the 70s and 80s, even the 90s on low end and mid-fi gear. And that's what most people can afford, really. Also, that's what most people know about. I don't even think they know about high end audio even existing. I certainly didn't know until I was 15-16 years old back in the mid 80s. |
Most people wworry more about sound quality and features, and less about "build quality".
If it sounds good and does what is needed, and lasts a long time, then that infers sufficient build quality to deliver the performance intended.
Not that build quality does not matter, but value, design and quality control matters more for most people. I have seen high end pieces built like a tank that sound great but work less reliably than similar device at Best Buy. |
Well, there's always exceptions to the rule. Good point. I don't really disagree with you there. |
"Most people wworry more about sound quality and features, and less about "build quality"."
Whoops, forgot to say they also care about aesthetics. Build quality may factor into that aspect of it as well. |
Ok, I would agree there as well. |
Kids today don't want to fuss and fight over mm or mc or this power cord or that philosophy how to achieve the best sound i.e. tubes or s.s. They want to listen to music whole cd's even and not just the one track or two from the dead can dance or the Eagles or whatever. Anybody notice the music festivals around. Kinda hard not to becasue they are eveywhere! Live music, theres some immediacy. You know the last time I got total body goosebumps was listening to the dead through my shitty work truck stereo. I enjoy my system at home I do and don't like the hassle of going to shows anymore its a time thing really as well as getting older maybe. I digress what I really wanted to say is there is some awesome awesome music outhere and the kids know it and are listening to it. just don't turn on the radio and expect it to be there. So don't try to tell yourself the kids don't have taste or todays music doesnt' have anything to say cause thats outtatouch bigtime. $ is the real reason plain and simple. That and there is so much B.S. in this game its sickening actually and kids are not as gullible as some audiophiles. |
Kids today don't want to fuss and fight over mm or mc or this power cord or that philosophy how to achieve the best sound i.e. tubes or s.s. Meaning what? |
Meaning, IMO, that many (operative word) kids today have little and, arguably, insufficient appreciation of one of the most important life lessons: the value of "process". IOW, what it takes to achieve true understanding of and insight into problems and problem solving related to issues, big and small. Many want results NOW without being willing to do the hard work necessary and that may not be obviously and immediately rewarding.
And guess who is to blame? Not just the changing social and cultural landscape, but we the parents who give them too much and don't challenge them enough and let them struggle. |
Why do so many threads devolve into criticism of the younger generation? Is it a demographic thing with audiophiles being older, educated and predominately male mansplaining to the presumably ignorant? Ultimately, what's the difference between Gwyneth Paltrow blogging about the 16 different products she puts on her face to let her natural beauty shine and a group of audiophiles describing ultra high end footers and how it let's them hear the music? The answer -- nobody else in their right mind should care!
We need to get over ourselves. |
Frog,
I have two teenagers.
There is truth to what you say about "kids" these days, but its really a moot point.
Times do change, but basic truths do not. Knowing the differences and adapting takes time. Same true when I was a kid. My generation did not resemble my parents at all. We became more alike as we grew older and wiser hopefully. That's pretty much always the case. The times largely make the person, but so do core values, which fortunately do not change nearly as much.
We are all programmed to take notice of music, to different extents and in different ways, much like the music itself. THere is no equation or magic formula for what works best. Kinda cool really! |
Onhwy61 expressed my feelings on the matter perfectly.
As I have watched this thread expand explosively to almost 100 reponses in 6 days, I keep wondering why there is so much being said about an amorphous, uncalibrated, utterly subjective and unimportant "standard"?
Try to step back and see how childish it all sounds. |
