I am just glad somebody else (Ronc) heard what I heard in Clement's listening room. I never doubted my experience, I was only annoyed by all the hotheads putting the speakers down without having the opporunity to listen to them in the right environment.
I asked this question earlier,without a reply.I'll ask it again...could someone please mention what horn system Mr Perry alluded to,when he claimed it was the finest sounding speaker system he had heard.
What's the mystery?I am simply curious,and it would be of interest to many,I presume.No agenda,just curiosity on my part.
Also,I'd like to add that though Greg Petan's system was impressive to me,when I heard it(quite some time ago,so I don't expect Greg to remember),it was not nearly as impressive as the superb restaurants,in his neighborhood-:)
Since the Sunny Majestic can transport a listener 48 hours into the future, I'll list my Merlin's today...maybe.
Tab 110s - Sorry I used an incorrect date in my letter, but, I think you get the idea that I really was impressed by this speaker and the associated system. Maybe they won't transport you into the future, but, they will transport you to the recoding space and that's not too shabby!!
Tvad 'Clement and other reviewers change their systems fairly often'.
I know a hi-fi reviewer that has had his speakers (Impulse H1 horns by the way) since 1989, he has yet to hear speakers that he would buy and replace his beloveds.
Those Sunnys were at the Denver 2007 show and I missed them! hopefully they will be there at the 2008 show. Here's hoping.
Can a speaker really be worth $90,000? thats just made of MDF, some wire and speaker cones? a simplistic viewpoint admittedly, I don't think so personally but as I will never have enough wonga/wedge/sovs to own a pair It doesn't really matter.
I wonder If Clement buys are pair how much he will pay for them? Full price?
Being a horn lover It makes me smile when horns get elavated
up there with the best of the big (and expensive) big boys.
100% happy with my cheap as chips Oris 150's.
I wonder If Clement buys are pair how much he will pay for them? Full price?
Do you think?
tsk, tsk. the usual discount to the trade, with maybe a substantial supplemental kicker due to the price. let's say 30% retail? then you can also factor in the end of the year tax write-off, as a business expense. nice gig. "...oh what fools we mortals be".
The word 'perk' springs to mind.
Good comments TVAD, Gawdbless, Johnnyturbo. And Ronc.
I think Speaker themselves alone cannot produce life like sound. You will have to have everything else 'work' with speakers. Sure, you know certain speakers caliber, even with less than stellar electronics. You just know what it could do with right source, preamp, amp etc. So in this case, If Ronc and other's audition recital is correct, it would be as much the electronics contribution to make the speakers sign and perform at its best. If indeed they did/do.
I know this from my experience with my lowly old fashioned speakers ;-)
Just to fill in a few points to consider I learned hearing Greg's system.
As far as the cost - I think you have to see the speakers in person to realize
how enormous they actuallly are - and these were smaller than Clement's.
Surely the huge size and weight of 600 lbs each for Gregs and 800 lbs each for the largest ones has to account for the materials used and complexity of creating such a rigid large modular structure. (each cabinet is 3 section)
I believe the horn driver and supertweeter are custom made - though I could be wrong. The horn itself looks custom and like nothing I have ever seen.
Acapella horns are also quite expensive I believe.
The multiple sets of binding posts are like nothing I have ever seen before. They are jumbo sized and surely custom made.
I was told that that the discount reviewers typically get (if in fact they decide to keep the product) are not nearly as high on the Sunny's as other products.
Whenever people mention - "oh sure, said reviewer got a huge discount on xxxx product" isn't it obvious that the reviewer could most likely get the same discount on whatever item they decided to keep? People ripped Michael Fremmer for this on the Caliburn turntable - but he could have kept any table he wants - and chose and paid for the Caliburn.
Now I think cables often might be a different story. I believe sometimes cable manufacturers want reviewers to keep their cables on permanent loan so they can try them with whatever new gear comes in, and perhaps become a reviewers reference cable.
I don't know much about the audio reviewing business, but I suspect that almost none of them make a real living just from reviewing, and certainly not the web based 'zines. If there weren't some perks involved, why would they do it. Also how would they afford the kind of reference system required to review. There are thousands of products out there and I think a reviewers choice of a small handful of them to actually live with says alot, regardless of the specifics the finances behind the scenes.
Book and music reviewers get everything for free, and no ones shouts foul because a given label gave them thousands of dollars worth of free media that year.
there are both distinctions and differences between the perks provided, dontcha think? book and record reviewers really do critique/review the wares they are provided. reviews are often neither glowing nor positive. in contrast, audio equipment reviewers are hard pressed to write anything other than positive, if not glowing reviews; and this approach is rationalized and valorized by the "reviewers and publishers.
no doubt, without these 'perks' audio "reviews" would be limited to affordable components and "reviewers" reference systems would look a whole lot like those of their reviewers. wouldn't that be a sorry state of affairs? how would us lumpen know what we are missing? we would not devlop raging cases of audio envy or tradeupitis. perhaps, we would listen to the music rather than the equipment.
my point really is: given extraordinary perks to reviewers, can we, trust what is written? this is especially problematic given the incredibly subjective nature of what we hear, what we value, how we communicate what we have heard in a way that a reader can comprehend, and, the interdependency of components in generating sound and, finally, the ongoing close and interdependent relationship between the reviewer and the manufacturer.
if we, as readers, take all the foregoing into account and really enjoy the reviews as entertainment, and employ a reader beware approach, with the burden resting on the reader to take nothing at face value, then, maybe, just maybe the todo over perks and reviews would f-f-f-fade away.
Glad to see this thread moving along. A couple thoughts.
I have been reviewing for around thirteen years. I can say without too much after thought that the Sunny speakers are by far the best i have heard any were. I have the Dynaudio Master reference, and good lord, they don't even come close.
Was I happy the Sunny's were that much better? Yes. Was I thrilled about having to sell off speakersI had just bought? Was I thrillled about burning in a new set of speakers and tweeking, running room corection and tiping and toeing in 600lb speakers? No. Not to mention trying to sell my wife on why we needed giant black phone booths in place of the lovely Danish fashion models we had posing in our living room. I simply do not have the energy to go through all of this for an incremental improvement or trading a little of this for a little of that.
Don't cry for me, for sure. But why on earth would I go through all of this if I was not sincerely moved by the musical expereince? Even If Sunny offered me 50,60-70% off retail, why would I go through all of that work and take up with an inferior product? Does not add up.
Sire speedy, please feel free to e-mail me and arrange for another visit. as well as any one else that is in the NY NJ area.I want as many people to hear these as possible. They deserve as wide an audience as possible. Greg
Sir speedy....look up Clements trip to France on Stereotimes.com It should be in the Show coverage section. There you will see pics of the horn speakers and the rest of the system and the room it resides along with a detailed description of Clements experience. Best, G
1.Sir Greg, is your place the ONLY place to audition these speakers ???
2. Did you have to make any adj/changes to your system (besides re-EQ with RCS)?
3. What cables (spk, IC, PC) are used with Sunnys ?
4. Is the sound in your room more or less the same as the sound in Sunny's room during CES in Vegas ???
The dealer is in Brooklyn. Laufer Teknik. Clement Perry has the larger version of the ones I am running.
From the dynaudio, I only re ran the room correction for the sunny. All wire is Sunny 1000 as is the power conditioner. The power chords on the amp and preamp, are from new manufacturer we will be hearing about shortly.
I was not at the vegas show so I cannot say how they sounded there. Best, Greg
I had a chance to hear Clement's system yesterday.
Maybe "hear" isn't the right word. "Experience" is more like it.
It does things that I've never heard another system do. On Patricia Barber's
Companion (one of my reference CD's) I heard elements in the recording I never noticed before. At one point in one of the tracks she whispers something to another musician, a detail I had never before heard. Each clap of the audience became a distinct fully fleshed out event. In fact all the live recordings he played portrayed audience cues in a way I had never heard captured on any recording. The Sunny's just have this incredible dynamic property that lifts sound off it's background in a way I have never heard any system reproduce.
Each slap of the conga on Companion took on it's own variance that was not there in other systems I heard it on, and the whole instrument really came to life as it had never before.
The bass was tighter and deeper than any system I've demo'd, and I not usually a fan of ultra deep gut wrenching bass. The room correction surely played a part in getting these 18" drivers to integrate so well in the small to medium size room.
On some acoustic guitar tracks I brought (from Springsteen's Devils and Dust)
each string suddenly became alive as it's own acoustic vibrating column of air.
Clement is to be aplauded for putting together a system that elevates music reproduction to such a high level, and for championing a new line of speakers that most of us were simply unfamilar with, by taking the time to allow strangers like myself into his home to experience his system.
I must say that when I first heard about 800 lb. per side gigantic horn speakers, I thought the notion a bit over the top. All I can say now is that if I had he room and the budget, I would not hesitate to take out my checkbook and find a good moving company.
I also got a chance to hear to hear Sunny's much smaller (traditional sized) speaker. While it could not do what the gigantic Majestics do, they are definitley a product line I am interested in investigating further.
I was lucky enough to have a chance to listen to Clement's system on Tuesday (Feb.21). I would urge any skeptics to take him up on his offer and go listen for themselves. I have spent the last couple of weeks listening to some high end systems around the country.
I listened for about 8 hours to my CD's and a wide variety of music that Clement played. We played classical, Jazz, Rap, some indi bands, Blues and everything in between. It was quite a remarkable experience, and I left convinced that outside of springing for the 325k Magico Ultimates(which I've not heard, I have heard the Model 6) this is as good as it gets. I had planned on listening to 1 or 2 more systems, but was so impressed I ended my search and am buying the Sunny's. Don't take my word for it, have a listen yourself. Clement is a most generous host and once you have a chance to speak to him you will realize this is a man who lives and breathes audio. There is no logical reason he and Greg would have bought these enormous speakers, whatever the discount unless they felt they were nothing short of the best in their class. Whats interesting too is that Clement's room is very short of the ideal space for these monsters. The ceilings are not that high and the room is pretty small. I can only imagine what they will be like in a larger room, although I will find out when they arrive. I would love to hear more from anyone who has the chance to visit Clement, but for my money I am convinced that this is as good as it gets and if anyone wants to have an experience that will really transport them they should make whatever arrangements they need to to go listen. -Erik
sounds like a plan...I'll write my on second mortgage and order a pair tonight...RIGHT!!
for 90K, we could get Ashley Dupree to come over and not only play for us, but...
I have Clement Perry to thank for my Von Schweikert db99 loudspeakers...best I've owned,completely happy with them and a great synergy with my Almarro 318B SET amp...I'd love to hear his gear too....his enthusiasm for this great hobby matches mine and I suspect he's been into music listening since he was a kid ( I was raised this way....anti-tv parents but LPs were fine)I think CP's website is a paradigm and hope he keeps it up. I think a lot of us fantasize about what gear we'd buy if wealthy and price no object...we'd search for the best that matched our taste in sound.
Wait......money no object....am I missing something???
Yes, I agree that Sunny speaks would make it to that list but......this is not it....is it???
And.......besides the fact that:
a. They cost is almost 100K
b. You will need 2 pro moving comps. or few Spartans from "300"
c. Lovely and saint wife to let the beasts in.
You will need a state of the art room and components to get the best out of these speakers.......if money is in fact no object.
So what? There are people for whom money is no object, and these products are of interest to them. If you're pulling in a million a year, these speakers are about a month's salary. Many of us would consider spending a month's pay on speakers. Not everyone is married, not everyone's spouse hates audio gear. If money is no object, hiring millwrights shouldn't be that big a deal; I have a freind who owns a clock shop; the owners of one beautiful old Boston townhouse with stairs too narrow to fit their tall clock through hired millwrights to remove a window and swing the clock in on a crane, and the clock cost a lot less than the Sunnys. Rodney Dangerfield hired a helicopter to get his hot tub into his NYC apartment. If you're in that league, you may have a house big enough to dedicate to an acoustically designed music room. The best part is that when they get bored with their stuff, they sell it here, so those of us who are not as wealthy can eventually own some of the top equipment.
You are right I am not in that "league".
Actually I am in the league of common sense and passion for music. And in my opinion, it is not ART or SKILL to spend silly money to feel good about yourself. The skill to build the reasonable, listenable, enjoyable foot topping system is what I am all about.
And do keep in mind.....I have heard Sunnys and I wasn't floored.
And HONEST"1" try to be more honest and come down from the clouds on the ground where most of us audiophiles/music lovers are.
Happy listening &
enjoy the music
Mrjstark - I'm not in that league either. But I don't expect someone with a lot more money than I do to limit himself to the same equipment that I can afford. If spending $400K gets a much better system, and a person has the $$to do it, I have no problem with that. I do understand your point about having heard the speakers and not being impressed with them. If they really aren't that good, then I would say, yeah, it would be foolish to buy them, no matter how much money you have. I have been to CES and I agree that there seems to be very little correlation between equipment cost and sound quality. I have also been unimpressed with equipment that got lots of great press. I have not heard the Sunnys, though, so I have to go by what I read here - everyone who has posted who has heard Clement's system says it is exceptional; when you heard the Sunnys at CES, they were just good. For now, I will accept both accounts. There's more to a system than speakers. If Clement Perry has achieved state-of-the-art sound by spending a lot of money, I say good for him. I am especially impressed by his willingness to let total strangers into his house to hear it all.
In terms of being honest, I don't think I have said anyhting dishonest or hypocritical. I have looked at your system, though, and I would say that you are up farther in the clouds than I am. You have some very nice equipment, and the remodelling work is very impressive. I would like to do the same some day. However, I would ask that you be honest and realize that to most people, spending the thousands of dollars that you have on equipment would be silly money,and then reconfiguring rooms for the sake of sound would be way over the top. I know people who considered their $350 desktop Bose all-in-one a major splurge, and enjoy listening to it very much. They would definitely think what you (or I) do is way beyond the realm of common sense.
Just pointing out different points of view.
Your comments leave me scratching my wig. You write "I'm in the league of common sense...and keep in mind, I heard the Sunny's and wasn't floored."
Honest1 couldn't have been more on point.
Okay, for one, common sense has little to do with monetary contstraints. What you're really saying is "I'm in the league of common sense and budget." The kicker is when you meet folks with great common sense, coupled with an endless passion for music - and far more disposable income - do you really get to understand the true meaning of ART and SKILL. Not just of the person who purchased these electronics but moreso from the manufacturer themselves.
There's some very talented and wealthy folks out in the world who have just as much passion as the next guy writing on these forums. Only problem, they're often too busy enjoying their lives to write about it on these type forums.
Just because a person spends what you might consider a rediculous amount on a system doesn't make it rediculous at all. It's relative. Especially when you consider there's so much super expensive gear to choose. Whose making the stuff? Why? And for whom? is the better question if you want to get down to the gritty nitty.
To think ART and SKILL-ful purchases of hi-fi equipment as better than wealthy audiophiles with the same ART and SKILL-ful purchases, beit more expensive gear, is laughable. Oh, btw, most of the wealthy people I know are driven and motivated which makes their sucess stories no mistake. Ditto, their passion to get the most from a audio system.
Stating you heard the Sunnys at CES is like me saying I SAT in a new BMW 7 series while visiting their showroom and even turned over the ignition key!
In actuality, all you heard at CES was a GLIMPSE of the Sunnys performance.
That's what CES and trade shows demos are all about.
Trust me, I've heard my share of bad sounding systems and to qualify a show setup as unimpressive doesn't suprise me. But to knock or accuse the loudspeaker - as if it's playing itself - instead of the "system" AND a less than ideal acoustic space? In my opinion Mrjstark, this doesn't show the ART and SKILL you claim to possess.
Lastly, Mrjstark, in terms of expensive electronics that occupy the top rung of audiophile foibles; given two separate rooms, one with the best of the best and the other with afforable but well-thought-out electronics AND with all your experiences at your command - which Mrjstark would sound better?
My point exactly.
Here's an open invitation to come and hear them here at my place or over at Greg Petan's. Heck, I'll even come and get you in that new BMW 7 series.
Im late to this thread but why is anyone interested in what
Clement Perry's new reference is in the first place ??
Any speaker manufacturer should be able to make a pair of speakers for $100k sound awesome. The real art is to be able to do it for $10k.
Gawdbless ( just one setup of many )
Emerald Physics CS2
Controlled Directivity Loudspeaker (need to be bi-amp)
Bella EXtreme 3205 Signature w/EL34 output tubes (top)
Bella EXtreme 3205 Signature w/6550 output tubes. (bottom)
Conconance Droplet (driving the amps directly)
And $800 left for speaker wires and interconnects (I like Morrow. It doesn't pay to spend a fortune)
Thank You for the invide but if I could,
I would like to give up my seat (in that BMW-7S)to Honest1,
Like You said - driving and seating inside with the key in your hand.....two different things. Right?
If You feel that through your present system "AUDIO NIRVANA" has been achieved.
I think it is time to shut down and enjoy the music.
Us regular folks, will be here.....on THIS SILLY FORUM.
Mrstark, I agree that this is a silly forum. Some people had strongly recommended the Emerald Physics speakers to me so I sought them out at CES. Frankly, they were quite disappointing. I heard no speaker at CES or THE Show that approached the Reference 3A Grand Veenas. Apparently others don't agree. I have never heard any consensus here or elsewhere on whether any component is best. Since I don't have to listen to others' systems, I really don't care whether they agree or not. I don't think anyone would agree that there are less expensive speakers that rival the best of my expensive speakers. If you like it and can afford it, no one else should care.
Reference 3A Grand Veenas were one of the speakers that I have hoped to hear but did not.....my lost.
If you do not mind me asking,
what room did you hear the EP-CS2s in ???
And what did you not liked about them.
I am not questioning your judgement. Just curious, that is all (I think there was more then one set-up. I could be wrong).
My visit to Reference Audio Mods room during 2008 CES was a positive one. $3000 speakers were set up in a difficult room but still managed to turn heads. Their set up was nice but hearing those CS2s with some modded tube gear were even more suprising. Also feeding them quality and less edgy source benefits their performence even farther(IMO).
I MAY NOT be as experienced like some hear, but my intentions are clear, uncolored and not influenced by anything or anyone.
I do NOT want this to become personal.....becouse it would be a suicidal.........not for me since I have nothing to loose. I don't kiss a...s, I don't suck up to no one. No need. I am myself - that is all.
My house is open for audiophiles, and healthy conversation - always.
We are all entitled to our opinion, whatever that opinion might be. But what gets me the most is, the opinion that becomes "the formula" that is being introduce as the rule for rest to follow.
I have absolutely nothing against Sunny speakers, what their are and what they represent. They might be excellent speakers for someone with room, components that would do them justice. Are these the Best ?.........is there such an animal?........is there a system which is a true reference for the rest?......is it within our reach?.......so many questions. I don't think there is a definite answer.
I gotta hear those 90k speakers, like I like to hear many speakers, expensive and not so expensive. Heard the $270k Triolon horns last year and they didn't sound as wonderful as I would have expected, now the Classic Audios T1's at a mere $16k (still an awful lot of money to me) sounded lovely. Its all part of the love of hi-fi, but more importantly whats on the disc and how to extract all the information. Just like buying a car, we are all on a different affordability levels, that is life. Now, whether a hi-fi system that costs $400k is worth it is all down to the check holder. I would have to win the lottery to ever consider it. Is a system that cost $400k worth the difference over a system that cost $50K? for that last nth degree of sound, whatever it would be? Some would say yes, some would say no.
Mrjstark, I thought it was at least implicit in what I said that I think there is NO best speaker and NO speaker that everyone will like.
Tbg, the bottom half is for someone else (X).
Sorry for confusion.
I think that folks like Clement P,and Greg Petan deserve some real credit!Not so much for their own opinions about "sonic attributes" of a given component,but for the hospitable characteristics portrayed here!!
I mean,to give out an invite to other hobbyists(many complete strangers),to come to their homes for a listen,is "amazingly" good natured!!
Very fine "chaps",IMO!!
I am not doubting Clement's intention or hospitality.
Just his motives and methods.
*It is hard to argue, while visiting both "The Stereo Times" & "Sunny cable" websites and seeing "real affection towards each other. How sweet.
Arguing who would benefit from Sunny's performance (if there is any) and who can afford it, is a wast of time.
A real value vs performenc in real live scenario is a question I am asking. If Mr. Clement feels that a CES set-up sucked....well who (or what) is to blame? If I am responsible for the success of my product, you bet that I am going to make the best of it......whatever IT TAKES !!!
I am not doubting your knowledge, expirience or taste ( and definitely not your hospitality) but giving the false hope to those that read your comments ( even hearing your great rig ) does not tell all the story. It is not just Sunnys .........it is the whole set-up and most importently
And if you have read all my answers you would know that I have never said that Sunnys are a bad speakers in any shape or form. From MY EXPIRIENCE they sounded OK for the asking price. But then again who am I to tell you what they sound like. It could be my ears or another factor....I don't know. What I know is this:
MANY, MANY AUDIOPHILES READ THIS SILLY FORUM AND WE WILL BE JUDGED BY WHAT WE PUT DOWN ON A BLANK PAGE. ONES IT IS DOWN, YOU CAN NOT TAKE IT BACK.
IF YOU FEEL MY INTEGRITY IS IN DOUBT, LET ME KNOW.
AND I WILL DO THE SAME.
& enjoy the music.
That what this is all about.
What's with the SHOUTING?
For you, it is shouting - for me, kind of underlining few chosen words. Nobody is shouting here Tvad. Other then that I hope I have made my point clear.
Mrjstark,..."man", you seem defensive!!!I was not even alluding to "you" or anyone in particular.Merely stating some folks are decent people...That's it"!!
Using caps in discussion forums is considered shouting. It's part of the etiquette.
I realize you were trying to make a point.
I remember the first time I was called out for using caps (completely unaware of the protocol), I was a bit defensive, but I stopped using them and trusted that readers would comprehend the intention.
Well, Mrjstark, I think you've explained your point of vfiew a bit more clearly, and I certainly agree with some of the points you are making.
We are all entitled to our opinion, whatever that opinion might be. But what gets me the most is, the opinion that becomes "the formula" that is being introduce as the rule for rest to follow.
'I agree entirely. But I think this applies for all budgets, from hundreds of dollars to hundreds of thousands of dollars. There shouldn't be a formula that says spend $12,000 on your system, more is a waste, less isn't good enough.
A real value vs performenc in real live scenario is a question I am asking.
A perfectly valid question, and one for which the Sunny is clearly not the answer. The question for the Sunny would be What is the best cost-no-object speaker. The answer may or may not be the Sunny. You clearly think not, based on your first hand experience. Others who have heard them in CP's system think maybe they are the answer.
. It is not just Sunnys .........it is the whole set-up and most importently
Agree 100%. But the Sunnys are definitley a big part of it. And this may explain why they didn't sound so good at CES. I alway thought it was a cop-out when exhibitors blamed the room for bad sound, but at one CES one fo my favorite rooms had Ascendo's big speakers. Another room had the same speakers, but didn't sound nearly as good. The first room was on the ground floor, whereas the second room was on a second floor that was so soft that by lifting my heels .5 inches and dropping back down, I could get everything in the room to shake.
I do NOT want this to become personal.....becouse
It is not personal to me, because I have never met you. Anyone on here might be very nice in person, or maybe a total idiot. It is very easy to misinterpret a person's intent on emails or postings, because you can'thear the tone of voice. So I give everyone here the benefit of the doubt, and assume they are nice until they prove otherwise.
In order for me to get defensive
I would have to feel guilty or under attack
I don't feel neither (but let me know when)
Thank You for the lesson. I WILL TRY TO REMEMBER THAT.
(no shouting - got it)
1.You are right we have never met.
Most likely have more in common then differences.
Am I nice ?......LOL.....maybe.
Let me ask you something Honest1......
How many times have you been screwed by manufactures, their advertisements, greedy/dishonest blood hungry dealers and of course our trustworthy, objective solid as a rock - reviewers?
( And please don't tell me.....I know - not all of them are that bad but many are.....I should know)
2. Do you truly believe that Sunnys are the "BEST SPEAKERS IN THE WORLD" (yes Tvad I know). I mean, even Clemente won't say that - if he wants his voice to still count.
And like You & I said :
It is not only the speaker that makes music.....sorry sound of music, but many factors that must be included in the final set-up. Human factor also should not be overlooked. It is the most importent ingredient. Without the listener - nothing matters. Our taste, budget, motives, personality, knowledge, determination dictate the path we choose. We as the audiophiles and/or music lovers have differences to be sure but what we all share is love and joy for music. It is a long and sometimes difficult journey. We remember our falls but don't want to think about them........we all would do it differently again if given a chance. But we can't. Learning from our costly mistakes we must. And where better the here and now. What this website gives us all is a different look, a fresh look and mostly honest experiences of audiophiles around the globe. Which magazine, reviewer or dealer can give you such a rich well of information, pointers and real answers? In my opinion, NON (no shouting).
3.I'd rather take the criticism from an as...le
then sweet talk from the snake. It is just me.
4.Like I have said earlier, I wasn't aware that this thread is about the most expensive/exotic speakers on the planet. I thought that we were questioning Clemente's choice and try to get a grip on what the Sunnys sound like.
What they can be compare to? What are benefits and issues of owning a pair? How they compare to Michael Framer's, Robert Harley's and other reviewers' systems or speakers?
That would truly be "the war of the wits"
5.As far as I know (and I might be wrong( Clemente is welcome to comment if he feels the need ). Clemente is using sophisticating room correction. If someone experienced what RCS can do to tailor the sound, you know what I mean. Have anyone heard those in by-pass mode at Clemente's place?
I don't think so. Next time ask for a brief switch between the modes.
Enjoy the music
time is the only judge of a loudspeaker's worth. lets see if a thread is around two years from now on this product. just i wild guess, but i suspect............
Hey all......The issue of room correction hovers above any analysis of my system by those who come through here. Heck, it has taken me quite some time to come to a few conclusions.
1-It is called room correction, not speaker correction. There is no way on this earth I could get the Dynaudio's to sound like the Sunny if given a decade to make it happen. If there is a problem with the speaker, it will be there no matter what.
2-I am always willing to bypass correction. It still sounds great, if narrower, smaller and brighter among other effects. It is with a bit of time the education takes place and the benefits become far to important to ignore.
3-I have had a few people come through who own serious contemporary gear. The response to the sound has been a state of shock. Not because the sound was a little better here or a bit more transparent there. The sound with the Sunny/behold combination offers something I had never heard before, any were, from any other combination of gear.
4-When I hear every speaker on the planet in my room and have had time to get the best out of them, I will declare the Sunny the best. Until then, I will have to stick with the saying the Sunny is the best I have heard.
As for motives and entanglements, there are many, too many manufacturers out there that thought we were "aligned with them" as a result of writing positively about their gear and or the willingness to advertise on the site-only to be snapped into reality when we honestly found something better suited.
Thanks Speedy for the kind words, you are welcome any time.
Greg,you were/are a "mensch"!!How's the art coming?
The art is going fine, thanks for asking. Give me a call, Greg
In some cases room correction can change the sound so much that is unrecognizable. In some cases for better. And in less skilled hands for worst. The sound You are getting through the use of RCS (I am not exactly sure what it is that You/Clement use at the moment and with which options/features) is far from the original (by-passed) reproduction. It all depends on the product You use to perform the correction duties, but my recent (bad) experiences with RCS that I thought was beneficial and estential to the peak performance of my system made me rethink its value to the whole concept of room acoustics. It could have been due to the fact that the unite was simply speaking outdated and inadequate to the rest of my not to fancy system. Or maybe I just have grown out of it.
Another possibility is that my present room is not as bad as my other rooms from the past. Its acoustic properties are quaite OK.
Last time I have had some friends over we used it in the system for the first time in months and it was just plain horrible. Robbed it from the details and transparency. It was one component in the chain too many.
Don't get me wrong, I am a believer in room acoustics and importance of controlling the interaction of the room & speakers. But the tools have to be carefully chosen for the job. Both You & Clement had obviously did your homework and your present system (intentionally or accidentally - doesn't matter) seems to greatly benefit the Sunny speakers set-up. How different from the CES 2008 is it?
I am not sure........but I though You said:
"It is called room correction, not speaker correction. If there is a problem with the speaker, it will be there no matter what."
and if it is true, they should not sound all that different in your set-up (of course in by pass mode - no RC). But if the difference is huge, You must admit that something else has to be responsible for it. If You shad a little more light on your set-up, maybe we could figure it out??? What it is, that made them sing the way You describe (and others).
In your last post You said few things that most audiophiles and I would consider rightness and honest....
I just hope it is sincere.
Mrjstark........I'ts obvious you give this stuff a lot of thought. But sometimes it comes down to experiencing the gear discussed.
Even with the electronics I had before the behold and sunny, I had a hard time grasping what Clement had been trying to communicate to me about his experience. Yet when I got the Bbehold, and subsequently the Sunny, I gained the understanding.
This is by no means a criticism as I just described my self in the same dynamic.
Comes down to experiencing system or speakers???
Where are we going with this?
Are we talking about system or Sunnys?
I've heard them reproducing music with components that were chosen
by the designer himself . How they benefited from the Behold gear, RCS or
other factors, only you can explain.
Not everyone can hear the sound you describe for simple reason -
it is in your and Clement's place. So it would be helpful for others to hear your side of the story , what gives and in more details/real answers.
I have pretty good idea what RCS you and Clement use but it would be nice to dig a little deeper and explain the reasons for its use. In your opinion , what other equipment is a good match with Sunnys or what else did you try them with??? How about setup.
Those are only some of the interesting questions.
But if those are answer in upcoming review.......we will just wait and then talk about it.
Anyone heard the smaller H3W10's or 12's ?
Dude.....That is what I'm talking about. The sound we are getting in our rooms which is strikingly similar in quality.
If you judge how gear sounds at shows as a means to form ultimate opinion about said gear, you will be misguided. That is a rather universally accepted dynamic.
It seems we are spinning our wheels here a bit. I hope you enjoy the review which will be up in a short while. G