Mhdt Havana 2 x BB PCM56P + Valve. I have one for you.
Best Bang for your Buck DAC ?
I just realized I’m in the market for a DAC , I don’t want to spend a fortune on a DAC either . I picked up a drangonfly cobalt a while back and am unimpressed so I moved it to my CPU and sounds really good on my system there which when I bought it figured I would do anyway since it was my first DAC purchase . There are so many DACs I have no clue , how high up on the returns chart can I go at say $1,000 before I run into heavy Diminished returns resistance. I’m open to buying used . I was thinking about a Schitt made in the states ? Anyone’s take on best bang for buck DACs?
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AME ADI-2 is fantastic, but your use-case may warrant allocating your budget differently. Family-friendly? Snag a Sonos Amp and treat the power properly, euphonic and simple. Hegel H95 if you want to spend more. At that price point, to my ears, the synergy of a quality integrated surpasses the benefits of a superlative DAC. |
Schiit Modi 3 is a great place to start. Completely affordable and you can check the 'B' Stock section on https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks for open-box and other markdowns. Other option is a used Schiit Bifrost - bit of an upgrade from the Modi, and can usually be had for <$300 on eBay. Have fun! |
Hello, I have tested some of these DACs. There are basically two types of DACs. R2R which sounds like analog but also a little mellow unless you spend over a thousand like the Denifrips Pontus. When you go to a chipset based DAC it sounds very detailed and airy but less analog unless you spend the money. If you have tubes I say go with the RME or Schiit. If you have SS you can go with R2R as long as your system is not too warm. RME has an adjustable EQ so it should be good for everything. Try to get something you will lose the least money on when you sell it because you will be upgrading in the future. I would forgo the SBooster power supply for now because you will not get your money back and they are voltage proprietary. DACs are going to improve the most over time. You should look for used. This way you will lose the least amount of money. |
hshifi237 posts04-20-2021 1:25pmHello, Can't agree with this at all. I would say there are two types of DACs. Those that sound like nothing (intentionally), and those that sound like something (intentionally or not). By nothing, I mean they do not add or subtract from the sound. Consider them a straight wire. The RME would fit into this category as would many others, and there is astonishingly little ROI after a somewhat modest price point. Don't take my word for it. Here them, level adjusted on a good system without knowing which is which. Good luck telling them apart if they are fed with a source absent electrical noise. Then there is a whole range of DACs that one could consider flawed in some cases, or voiced in another. I say flawed only in that they are not true to the recording. If you want a straight wire black box, it is relatively easy to pick, though it is hard to know how well they will reject electrical noise, or jitter if use a non-USB I/F or if that is even an issue in your system. If you don't want a straight wire black box, then all the suggestions people make here are not going to help you much as it will come down to personal preference. My suggestion is to ensure you either get a trial period or you can buy used to you can recover most of your cost if you do not like it. |
I will not be very original as I will also recommend Denafrips Ares 2 Dac. As close as you can get to analogue sounding dac without tubes. I am rediscovering my cd collection. It never sounded so good! Speaking of value, you have to double the price,750 to get a better sound. Schiot Bifrost 2 sounds also very good and has 5 years warranty! But it doesn’t have the creamy smoothness of The Ares 2. Enjoy! |
A lot of good suggestions, I tried the Qutest used and thought it was very nice but sold it. I bought a demo RME from sweetwater and really like this dac and still have it. It is crystal clear without being sterile, its warm with big bass and does not get blurred or fall apart with complex or busy fast music. It has a lot of adjustments but I run it flat. I did add a Teddy Pardo power supply. i have the mhdt orchid and added better caps it is a very musical and great dac, it can't hold things together as good as RME during complex music but it has a better sound stage not night and day but it is noticeable. You can't go wrong with either one there both great dac's under $1000 used. |
In my limited experience I have used the Schiit Bifrost 4490, Denafrips Ares II, Topping D90/D50, and the DACs included in the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC and the Bluesound Node 2 - nothing too crazy. My order of preference - Denafrips by a large margin, then Topping D90, PSGCD, Topping D50 and Bifrost. I could live with any of those, but the Bluesound didn't measure up to any of the others in A/B testing, IMO, but the Node 2/2i (if you want streaming capabilities too) is a good for-now choice and you can get them used for a good price, and if you decide to get a better DAC in the future, you can still use the Node streaming capabilities. I would find a used Ares II and be done with it (they do come up on eBay from time to time, and really the warranty directly from the company isn't all that much better), or the most expensive Topping or Schiit you feel comfortable buying. If you need/want MQA decoding, then that narrows the field a bit. |
Hands down, best bang for the buck, Denafrips Ares II. You buy it direct from Denafrips online. $773. US Dollars. https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-ares-r2r-dac Here is a good review from Audio Science Review: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denafrips-ares-ii-usb-r2r-dac-review.1116... |
it is safe to say this thread has degenerated into the usual random spewing of folks just touting what they have bought or read about, using unfounded superlatives, not having compared a relevant set of legit competing products that would be under consideration if someone really wanted to know don’t know if op is even reading these replies anymore... good news is, op is after a relatively cheap dac... so if he/she has the real desire to know, he can try several and see for himself what works well... otherwise we are in the zone of -- ’what is the best bang for buck meal in london?’ ’what is the best bang for buck economy car’? ’what is the best bang for buck espresso grind’? -- leaving aside the idiocy of asking such a subjective question to start with depends how much you care and how much time effort and $ you are willing to commit to find out - do you want to just be done, or do you have some real ’fomo’? |
@in_shore 100%. Just to change up my day and take a break, I just tested this out again. I have a Pro-ject streamer that's been connected to a Denafrips Pontus II DAC for the last two weeks. I unplugged the USB cable attached to an Audioquest Jitterbug noise filter and plugged both into an Apple iPhone via an Apple
Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter. The iPhone as a source sounded good, BUT the Pro-ject sounded hands down better in the following ways:
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@jiss49 Thank you. 100% on the mark. Regardless of possible biases, your suggestion that the OP just go and listen to DAC is right. Either someone actually likes what they hear OR they convince themselves that they like what they hear. Either way they are happy with their choice. Being happy with your choice is basically all that matters in audio. |
I see @loomisjohnson recommended the SMSL SU-9. I emailed SMSL about the differences in the SU-9 vs the M500. SMSL replied that they have tested them side by side many times and there is no audible difference. I suspect that there is something but.... The SU9 has 2 ES9038pro chips, the M500 has 1. The SU9 does have bluetooth, the M500 is a stand alone DAC, they both have a headphone amp, a remote, handle MQA, single ended and balanced output. The SU9 uses the Xmos XU208, the M500 uses the Xmos XU216. Not sure that there is any interest here for the op, but I wanted to at least mention the differences. Good Luck |
I’m also in the market for a dac since I bought a Musical Paradise MP701MKII Tube Preamp few months back does it make sense to buy a tube dac? The seller is suggesting to get the Musical Paradise MP D2 MKIII which is a tube dac with a AK4490 but can be upgraded to AK4499 but I’m leaning towards the RME ADI2 which is the same price as the MP tube dac. |
Another thumbs-up for the Musical Fidelity V-90. I haven’t auditioned all that many DACs, but did take the v-90 to my dealer to run against a Simaudio $1,500 model. Yes, the Simaudio might have had an edge, but not much. I now have a PS Audio Directstream because that’s what it took for a clear step up with upgradability. |
while all being very good sounding units, the rme adi2 and musical paradise are at opposite ends of the spectrum: rme is crystal clear, fast sounding, shimmery, slightly mechanical, relatively centralized, flat narrow sound stage -- probably a very honest representation of the digital signal being portrayed otoh, musical paradise unit is ’enriched’ in the midrange and midbass, slightly rolled on the top and extreme bottom, soundstage ’expanded’ and deepened via tube output stage, more perceived coherence top to bottom so to use again the very apt analogy by john darko the reviewer -- ’skim milk vs full fat’ schiit gungnir mb is smack in the middle in terms of tonality but with nice imaging (imaging is the rme’s achilles heel imo, not an issue for hp listeners of course)... gungnir issue which led me to move on is there is prominent relay clicking between tracks, if you change source or different bitrates, irritated me hope this helps those trying to make a choice |
Hello Again, ngiordano! I just took delivery of the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital and it beats my SMSL M500 by a significant margin. It's getting blown out by several on-line outfits for $400. It came out in 2017 and has gotten good reviews consistently. It does not accept analog inputs, but it has a headphone amp and a volume control. It is very tiny, smaller than a big hamberger bun! Sounds great! Be sure to use a good USB cable. USB cables are critical. Happy Listening! |
Yup, @jiss49 perfectly well said, was thinking the same. People read half the question, see DAC and start pitching their favorite gear as if they get a prize should the OP end up buying their recommended piece of kit. Disclaimer: I have no idea how this turned into my magnum opus. Just got all wound up reading through the many comments and felt how important it is now for ME to show EVERYONE how smart and clever I am. Seriously, I guess I really don’t have a life… If all you want is the essence of this, skip to “Quick summary” on bottom. …….. OP: What I gather from your post and comments is that you need more than just a good DAC, but rather a “family friendly” set-up, which really means that you may end up needing/wanting two devices: a streamer with super easy connectivity through your Tidal on Apple devices, to keep the family happy PLUS possibly a better DAC to improve upon the streamer’s internal DAC. Yes? If correct, then we are in the same boat and I am pretty familiar with some of the issues as well as solutions (IN YOUR PRICE BRACKET AND USING TIDAL FOR STREAMING, that is for around 1k). One way to go is using a streamer such as the Bluesound Node 2i to provide family-friendly access to everyone without needing third party software or apps. The big differentiator is the introduction of Tidal connect and any streamer supporting it. Tidal connect allows you to completely bypass a streamers own software/control app, including the Bluesound OS of the Node 2i. Maybe Tidal connect wasn’t around yet when you tried out the Node. Instead, with one click (ok, two) from WITHIN YOUR TIDAL APP on your iphone, you are directing the Tidal server to send the music instead to your phone to your Tidal connect capable streamer. Bluesound was one of the first couple brands supporting this; but of course the list is slowly growing like Cambridge Audio is updating some of their products (but no MQA with Cambridge) and more recently, Volumio OS now offers Tidal direct support which is great news - so any streamer that can run Volumio (any Pi based streamer that is; Volumio themselves make a very nice streamer btw the Volumio Primo) can give you streaming access/control from within the Tidal app; you don’t actually have to use the Volumio software or Bluesound OS. The fact that the music stream with Tidal connect does not travel through your phone before reaching your stereo has a bunch of advantages, one being you can hardwire your streamer with an ethernet cable and say you had weak spots in your wifi network at home, your music playback would not be affected if you moved with your phone into such area - or even if you did rely on wifi and your network at home is stable and awesome, if you turned off your device the music would continue to play or if you wanted to use another app on your phone that plays audio, say youtube, you could watch a video with sound on your phone yet the Tidal stream on your stereo would remain unaffected. Or you get a phone call etc etc you get the idea. Take that, bluetooth… At this point you could already be done, if you pick a streamer/Dac combo, such as the Node 2i which has a decent sounding DAC that can fully decode MQA. I have to assume that MQA playback capability is mandatory for you as a Tidal user seeking improved audio performance, otherwise I would question the wisdom of shopping for a better DAC while forgoing the capability to take advantage of Tidal’s higher resolution Master files and capping it at CD level. *** A quick side note to all the eye-rolling Qobuz, HD and DSD file users: Yes, I know, I know, MQA is a scam and now finally the cat is out of the bag and there is proof for what YOU knew all along. But before getting your panties in a twist and start posting links to the latest revelations and test findings, take a deep breath and consider what this particular thread is about: Helping the OP, a TIDAL user (!), with recommendations how to maximize the sound quality within a 1k BUDGET (!) to stream his music from his APPLE DEVICES & within the TIDAL APP (!), that is a family-friendly solution that does not require the use of third party software/apps. *** Ok, now finally to the DAC portion of your question and the two things you need to consider while shopping for the best DAC you can afford: 1.) the streamer you buy must have a digital out and be capable to pass the Tidal stream bit-perfect to the DAC you are buying. 2.) the DAC must be able to decode MQA via THAT SPECIFIC INPUT you are connecting to from your streamer. This is a lot more confusing than meets the eye. Why? Because while DACs generally have multiple digital inputs - coax, optical and USB most commonly - and manufacturers advertise their MQA capability in huge letters all over the place, very few make it clear that the DAC can ONLY decode MQA via it’s USB input. That’s btw why I own a $500 paper weight. So if you start your upgrade with purchasing a DAC, that may rule out certain streamers and vice versa. The Node for instance can only pass on the data stream to an external DAC using SPDIF (coax/optical), and although the latest ESS chip (ES9068S) can decode MQA natively, there are very few DAC options currently available that could decode a MQA file fed via SPDIF. Someone mentioned the Gustard X16 ($450), which is quite new and just about the only option I am aware of that would work with the Node, since it does use the aforementioned chip and could fully decode the MQA files when fed via SPDIF. Another route that would open up significantly more options in terms of the many DAC choices suggested here would be getting a USB streamer (or just network bridge without a DAC) that runs Volumio (for it’s Tidal connect support that you need) that has a USB out. Then pretty much all DACs advertised as MQA capable will work and you could go through the list here of recommended DACs and see what looks attractive and fits your budget. There were several DACs mentioned here in the $400-600 range that would do the trick. Paired with a pi-based streamer, which start for under $100 with a Raspberry Pi 4 itself + case, to a network bridge like Allo’s USBridge Signature, or more recent an Orchard Audio Pecan Pie streamer or Volumio’s own Primo (maybe the most elegant solution of those mentioned ). As long as they run with Volumio and have USB out you are good to go. The ones mentioned above I happen to be aware of from past research, but there may be newer better options out there already. Quick summary: 1.) If you want easy and use the Tidal app only, Tidal connect capability is your friend when choosing your streamer 2.) To take advantage of MQA, read the fine print of both streamer and DAC and make sure in combination they can do what you need them to do. Cheers and happy weekend! |
@boomerbillone I’m glad that you like your Project Prebox s2... I am using the M500 now. In my system the Project was a bit on the lean side, but to be fair, I am using the M500 running balanced and I tweaked the filters to my liking. I did not touch filters on the project. I also find the M500 slightly more dynamic. I really believe that it is a matter of taste and system matching to a high degree. |
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I own a Denafrips Pontus but it is slightly above your $1,000. The next step down is the Ares. You can't go wrong by choosing Denafrips. They mostly come on the market used when the owner is upgrading to a Pontus, Venus or Terminator or another more expensive DAC of another make. You won't be disappointed. Check their site and reviews. Bill in Nova Scotia |
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