Esprit4s
i am powering CS5’s with Bryston 7b monoblocks. Positively no lack of bass.
my room is not boomy.
start investigating, Tom goes right to driver testing. I would then go to placement, Tom might go to crossovers.
if you are near NJ and want a baseline to compare, come on over. |
Esprit - have the 5s and 7.2s been tried in the same position in the same room with the same driving source?
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@bighempin - was glad to see that you finally have your 3.7’s. As you may know I gave up on the pair of 3.7s that "might" come back to ATL and presently have Magnapan 20.7s that I’m extremely pleased with. I’m presently continuing to use the my 2.4’s, two pairs of power point 1.2’s and a pair of powerplanes in a video system with a 4K JVC projector. Enjoy your new speakers! |
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pwhinson
Good to see you here. Hope your are well and enjoying Summer. Glad the Magnepan 20.7 loudspeakers worked out. Your CS 2.4 s are sweet and worth keeping.
Happy Listening! |
jacksky
Good to see you again. Thank You for assisting Esprits4s' CS5 query. I believe that we have another CS5 owner on the Panel. Happy
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here is a link to the article in the newest issue of Copper magazine which is a free magazine produced by PS Audio. Great stuff. This article is a summary about the demise of Thiel over the past few years. Many here already know this but it is quick review. https://www.psaudio.com/article/thiel-the-final-chapter/ |
ronkent
Thanks for the URL to the Copper article. Very interesting reading, and filled in quite a few gaps. Unfortunately, the follow-on to Jim Thiel's company was doomed from the start. I guess failure was inevitable when bean counters and the cost-effective minions attempted to run an artistic enterprise. The article also gave me an additional insight into Tom's place in the company. |
Ronkent thanks for posting that a very interesting read! Thankfully we still have Tom and rob! |
indeed. i am grateful that TT and RG are still part of the Thiel family.
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If I remember correctly, a Thiel employee (engineering?) defected to Bryston following Jim's death and when the new organization began to unravel.
Am I right or incorrect? |
Gary Dayton is the person i think you are talking about
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ronkent,
Thanks! That was whoI was looking for. Shorly after leaving Thiel, he appeared in a September, 2013 video pushing the new Bryston speaker collection. He’s advanced through the Bryston system and is now the Bryston VP for US Sales.
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he is a really nice guy. used to talk with him occasionally back when he was with Thiel.
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Gary had been Jim's lab assistant and audiophile interface for at least a decade. He was part of Home Team Thiel for the 2.7 development. When New Thiel took the reins, Gary held out for Phase Coherence in the new products. He was over-ridden by the New Team, including Steve DeFuria and Bob Brown who had been long-term Thiel supporters and associates. They said that Gary had "drunk the kool-aid". Gary left New Thiel when Mark Mason decided to pursue Canadian-type, non-coherent designs.
Bryston and Thiel had collaborated for decades, sharing and trading equipment for the lab and for shows. Good fit for Gary.
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thanks Tom. "drank the kool-aid". what a bunch of morons. I am glad the Gary is doing well at Bryston as i do have good memories of him.
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There were knowledgeable insiders and observers who collectively judged the new ownership's approach to be built on "appalling arrogance and ignorance".
In times of change, some people go where the wind blows to keep their jobs and carry on how best they might. Thiel employees were unusually principled. Most stated their principles and committments and parted ways. Rob found a way through the maze to carry on well by remaining conscientious without addressing policy. Most of the Real Deal Thiel Team evaporated before the Lexington factory went in the dumpster. None made the move to Nashville. The Thiel Audio we knew was over within the first year - 2013 - which is getting to be a long time ago.
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tom,
Did Gary have anything to do with the development of the Bryston speakers? I wondered when I saw him in that September 2013 video, as he mentioned Jim Tanner's desire to develop a speaker line for Bryston.
It's nice to know Gary was in on the development of the 2.7s (my primary speakers!)
BTW: My call sign, brayeagle, was meant to be grayeagle (Air Force career) but somehow was entered as brayeagle. My son often asks me if someone in the head shed thought I was a cross between a donkey and a buzzard,.
George |
When New Thiel took the reins, Gary held out for Phase Coherence in the
new products. He was over-ridden by the New Team, including Steve
DeFuria and Bob Brown who had been long-term Thiel supporters and
associates. They said that Gary had "drunk the kool-aid". Gary left New
Thiel when Mark Mason decided to pursue Canadian-type, non-coherent
designs.
I've written this before but it's a cryin' shame that New Thiel completely abandoned Jim Thiel's design principles. At that point, why even keep the name? Meanwhile, I'm still happily drunk on the kool-aid of my upgraded 2.4s. Last night, I yet again found myself locking into the music (16/44 Mary Gauthier via Qobuz) despite having my attention elsewhere. |
Yeah, I drank the kool-aid too, and it was gooooood.
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Eagle - I think the Bryston speakers had been development a long time, but Gary may have been in on final tweaking. He has a good ear and did lots of listening with Jim during development over the years. BTW: Gary set Rob up with a pair of 28Bs. If they are Gen 3, I think that's Bryston's top of the line. Their amps have gotten more and more refined over the years. I'm planning to hear Rob's this summer.
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I drank the kool-aid too!! Back in the early
90s it’s delicious!!!! Have 3.6s which I love trying to upgrade to cs5i or 7.2s!! |
tom,
28Bs are one heck of a pair of monoblocs! 1000 watts into 8 ohms, and 1800 watts into 4 ohms. Inordinately low distortion .
I've noticed a change (for the better) in the power amplifiers, from 4B to 4BSST to 4BSST2 to 4B cubed. My 4B cubed has a clarity, smoothness and bass control clearly beyond the SST2. Most noticeable in alto and soprano voices. IMO, their 17 cubed preamp is a step up from the 26.
eagle
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@brayeagle Last time I heard Bryston was a demo Gary Dayton was giving with Vandersteen in Southern Cal.. I asked him to compare the 26 vs the 17 cubed and he said the 17 cubed was the way to go. He claimed the new electronics were much better in the 17 cubed over the older 26 (which I owned for a few years) |
yyzsantabarbara
Good to see you here. We have several Bryston fans and owners on the Panel. Happy Listening!
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fitter468
Good to see you again. Watch the usual on-line haunts for a pair of CS 7.2 loudspeakers. They usually come up for sale a few times each year.
Happy Listening!
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beetlemania
Thank You for the update on your XO project. Good to read that your speakers continue to bloom since inception.
Happy Listening!
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The auction is over. As far as I know this is the only auction of its type in the last 20 years. The TT1 prototypes went for $3,800. That surprises me. The raw drivers went for really cheap. The big Krell went for $2,700. I thought about bidding on a couple of things but I don't need anything so I didn't. As far as I know nobody ever found Jim Thiel's decades of notes and that's probably the biggest bummer of the whole situation. |
I bought a pair of 3.6's in 1993 and have been enjoying them ever since. They make reproduced music sound like live music, and that's all you can ask of an audio system. I've driven them with a variety of power amps over the years. For many years, I used a Nelson Pass era Threshold SA/4e, a pure class A, 97 pound amp rated at 100 watts per channel at 8 ohm of pure class A power. They deliver far more at 4 ohm. I sometimes switch to a pair of Emotiva XPA-1 gen 1 monoblocs rated at 1,000 watts each at 4 ohm. |
strindl
Welcome! Good to see you here. You will find many fans and owners of the 3.6 loudspeaker from the Panel. I look forward in reading more about your system, musical tastes.
Happy Listening!
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1st day of Summer Soltice
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Happy Summer and happy listening to all us Thiel guys.
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The bankruptcy auction got a lot of participation. In addition to Jon's observations, I noted no single big buyer for all those under-priced drivers. It seems that most finished goods sold at pretty significant prices compared to actual cost.
I dropped out of Jim's big Krell amp at $2500 - it sold for $2700 compared to around $3500 on ebay and 'Gon. I bought the Sony SCD-1, so I can play SACDs and CDs in higher style than my Philips CD80. I'll be interested to compare sound quality.
Jon - that stuff is only lost 'till it's found. Still working . . .
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tomthiel
Nice score! Shop around on-line for an extra Sled/Spindle mechanism for the Sony ES SCD-1. These are critical parts that will keep the spinner, spinning, for a long time. Also. Sony's customer service hub is now located in Michigan (888.222.7669).
Happy Listening!
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hi tom, i second Jafants advice. i had one of those big bad boys, and they are finicky and may need servicing someday. make sure you do not pull a muscle as they are super heavy
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Thanks guys. My working assumption is that it needs service and is a candidate for upgrade. Do you guys know anybody who is doing the serious upgrades that were being done awhile back?
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hi Tom, i went into my archives and found this. not sure if he is still in biz or anything else about him at this point. he did service and update my unit. here is a copy of the invoice. this is from March 2006 Subject: Sony SCD-1/SCD-777ES Mod prices.
From: Richard Kern
Reply-To: [email protected]
Organization: Audiomod
All of the modifications I perform are designed to widen and deepen the
sound stage
and improve imaging. The clarity, detail and transparency are greatly
improved. These
changes effect both CD and SACD modes.
Note: All of the modifications listed below can be installed separately.
Pick only one clock to use in your machine. Use 1 or 2, not both.
- Audiocom Super
Clock 3 $295 parts $50 labor.
- LC Audio X-03
Clock $260 parts $50 labor.
- Audio Board
Black Gate Capacitor Upgrade $370 parts $150 labor.
- Audio Board
Resistor Upgrade using Vishay S102 resistors $475 parts $150 labor or using
Caddock TFO20 $330 parts $150 labor.
- Transport
Board Black Gate Capacitor Upgrade $100 parts $200 labor.
- Audio Board OP
Amp Upgrade using Burr Brown OPA627 $233 parts $50 labor.
- Audio Board
Regulator Upgrade using Audiocom Super Regulators $425 parts $100 labor.
- Power Supply
Board Black Gate Capacitor Upgrade $450 parts $100 labor.
- Power Supply
Regulator Upgrade using Audiocom Super Regulators $255 parts $100 labor.
- Audio
Consulting CD Output Transformer Upgrade (steel core) $540 parts $200
labor.
- Audio
Consulting CD Output Transformer Upgrade (ferrite core) $1000 parts $200
labor.
- Optional power
supply for the Audiocom Super Clock or LC Audio Clock $295 parts $100
labor.
- Power
Transformer shielding for the SCD-777ES $20 parts $20 labor.
- The complete
modification package with Audiocom SC3, Super Clock Power Supply, Steel CD Transformers, Vishay Resistors,
$5098 parts and labor.
All of the above parts take one week to
obtain from my parts suppliers.
Check out the reviews of my modifications
on the web at www.AudioAsylum.com
www.audiogon.com
& www.positive-feedback.com
Audiomod
Richard Kern
4390 SE Mark Kelly CT.
Oak Grove, OR. 97267
503 659-6599
503 490-8602
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ronkent
An excellent blast from the past! There were quite a few guys modding the SCD-1. It would be interesting to learn the one(s) still around?
Happy Listening!
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tomthiel
I would add Dan Wright of ModWright to the list as well. Keep us posted here. Happy Listening!
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Anybody have any experience with the PowerPlane 1.2? I want to set up some rear channels and I'm probably never going to have the space for rear floorstanders. I know the powerpoints got more press but I'm wondering if the in-walls are sonically comparable. They seem to be available more often and for better prices. |
Speaking of Bryston, I used to own the 4B ST mostly to have a reference SS amp. It was a real work-horse and powered many speakers I had in my room, both when reviewing or otherwise. I have always felt I wanted to hear the general character of a speaker by using an SS amp - the speaker maximally under control as it were. But always, every time, I preferred the sound once I switched back to tubes, especially my CJ Premier 12s. Eventually I sold the Bryston because I didn't really need it anymore, the CJ seemed to control anything I put on them, and gave me that tube amp sound I seem to crave.
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@
jon_5912 I use
PowerPlane
for side surround and ViewPoint for back. IMO, the powerpoint, powerplane and viewpoint are comparable
sonically.
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Jon - I use the PowerPoint 1.2 extensively. I am told on good authority that the PowerPlane is the same driver and that the XO is modified to account for the different wave-launch environment. The speakers are said to be virtually the same except for the unique wave-launch of the PowerPoint.
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Thanks for the input imhififan and tomthiel. I'm thinking I can probably get good results from any of the bookshelf, in-wall, on-wall, tv or other possible models that were produced in the early to mid 2000s. The viewpoints come up pretty regularly and I've wondered if they'd be comparable to the powerpoints.
The stuff from the auction is hitting ebay. It's amusing to see what some people expect to be able to get for it. Some silly person is asking $750 for the raw subwoofer driver. Bids on Aurora Home start at $500.
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I tried to get the TM3, stopped bidding at $ 550 , ouctionended at $650 700 for most of them now there a guy on the bay asking for $1850, just wondering if he is ever getting that much.
They had to give voice to my pre and power amp Phase Linear 400 and 4000 series 2, my very old second room audio set....
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dinopau
Good to see you again. Happy Listening! |
Fellow Thiel’s enthusiasts,
I would suggest here a conservative treatment that I already did for the woofers suspension of my CS 3.6 that are made of rubber (butyl). It’s well known that the rubber suspension last much more of foam one but our loved speakers start to be a bit old in some case (like mine) thus I was wondering how to preserve them from the aging and found a Parker product called Super O-Lube specially made for O-ring installation and general use with rubber stuff. It’s totally compatible with butyl rubber as reported in the data sheet and it’s also very effective against UV rays. I suggest to apply it on the rubber by finger with a very delicate touch and in very thin layer.
...you know, nothing is forever but we try get the most! |
Another vote for the Bryston 7B ST monos with Thiels.
I have recently acquired a pair of the last design of the 7BST before they released the SST series.
They are running in parallel mode driving a pair of 2.7's with excellent results. |
solobobe22,
congratulations on your new purchase, if Jim was a Bryston user for his research and development, more than good reason there will have been. |
