help thiel 2.4 placement???


i am having some problems placing in my room a pair of thiel 2.4, acording to thiel they should be far away from the walls, they recomend 3 ft at least from the back walls and 5 ft from the side walls.
i did this and i am not getting any bass, if i put them closer (1 ft) from the back wall i get much better bass but thiel does not recomend this.
right now i have them 2.5 ft from the back wall, 6 ft apart from each other, and the listening position is 8 ft away. sound is ok but i know it should be better.
does any body have experience placing thiels, please help
thanks in advance.
rcoppel
place them where you ears tell you they sound best. you might want to start at 6" and move them out from the wall in 2" increments until you find the best place. my 2.3's are about a foot from the wall.

i think it is more important to have ample distance between the listener and the speaker than the distance between the speaker and the wall.
The thiel manuals are usually helpful and can be downloaded from www.thielaudio.com. The screamingly obvious response to your post is that 6 feet apart is quite wrong. I have owned several Thiels and all operate best at about nine feet apart, and there is a distance apart where moving them further apart causes the sound to go a little lean in the mid-bass, and moving them closer together causes the mid bass to get a little too warm. With Thiel's in my room that ideal spot was with the speakers between 2.6 and 2.7 metres apart. Smaller Thiels liked the 2.6 metre point (eg. 1.5 and 1.6). The 3.5, 2.3 and 2.4 liked 2.7 metres apart.

I would suggest the following. Position the speakers close to the back wall (such as your 1 foot away position) and 2.65 metres apart (pardon my confused metric/imperial state), with no toe-in. Listen to the Thiels from between 10 and 11 feet away. Listen to them in that position and then bring them towards you say 4 to 6 inches at a time, moving your listening position back accordingly. Choose a piece of music that has a well recorded solo vocalist imaging centrally between the speakers. As you move the speakers away from the back wall, the overall soundstage should gain in coherence and in depth, and the vocals should become more natural (less flat and hard) up to a point where the image of the vocalist begins to lose solidity and focus. This should not occur until the speakers are at least 3 feet away from the back wall. Then move the speakers back towards the back wall until you get a solid central image again. Then move the speakers to say 2.6 metres apart, and then out to 2.7 metres apart listening for how the overall character gains or loses coherence. At this point you should be getting a good feel of how to inch the speakers around within this zone to get a good soundstage, solid images and good top-to-bottom coherence (ie. similar levels of driness or warmness through the frequency spectrum). Finally, play around with sitting closer or further away, together with small amounts of toe-in. In general i have always preferred to have Thiel's firing straight ahead, but some rooms require a small amount of toe-in, mainly when the need to have them 9 feet apart causes them to be a bit close to side walls.

Throughout this process, I would not be listening to the bass much, except when trying the "move together/apart" positions, and when moving your listening position forward and back. If you have a very wide back wall you might try moving both speakers left/right (ie. keeping their distance apart constant) to get a smooth bass response - symmetric positioning is usually best with a narrow back wall, but not necessarily so with a wide back wall.

If all this results in poor bass, then I would look at other walls to locate the speakers on, or elsewhere for the problem. For example I cannot imagine the sound of Thiels being good at 1 foot from the back wall, regardless of what that does to bass level - soundstage would be horrible and vocals would be nasal and flat.

I cannot help but ask whether the speakers have had 500 hours of use yet. Thiel's 1.6 and 2.4 take a long time before the bass arrives. Even at 300 hours the bass may not have arrived, depending on how hard you have driven them. Believe me the 2.4 has plenty of bass, but it is quite absent when the speakers are new, and it arrives all of a sudden after 300 to 500 hours of play. Only then can you really do the work to set them up right.
Nice post Redkiwi. From my experience with the larger Thiels, they do like their breathing room between the speakers. Typically, setting up an equilateral triangle with speaker, speaker, listener is a good starting point. I've noticed that the Thiel's need more space between them and the back wall than between them and the side wall. I believe it's normally best to keep those distances different from one another (e.g., the front center of the driver should not be both 4 feet from the front and 4 feet from the side wall). Trust your ears since general rules may not apply to your particular acoustic environment or to your tastes. Experiment as both Redkiwi and Jazzdude suggest. By the way, both location and degree of toe-in will matter as will, with Thiels, speaker cones between them and the floor. Good luck.
thanks for your answers, because my room is 12 ft by 15 ft, i could only place them 6 ft apart (because of the door of the room), but toninght i will have to change the whole set up of the room so i can position them 8-9 feet apart and 2-3 feet from the rear wall and 2 feet from the side wall, listening posistion would be 9 ft away. from that position i will start to move them around and look for the best set up.
That should help tremendously.

I have my 2.4's a little farther apart then Redkiwi suggests (maybe one foot more) but I also have them toe'd in quite a lot. (I tend to favor toe in because I like focus and prefer a small, focused soundstage to one that's bigger but more diffuse.) However, Redkiwi's advice is brilliant (as ususally) and I'm going to do some experiementing.
Slight clarification. I meant to say that isolation cones attached to the bottom of the speakers and affixed to the floor or metal pucks add a lot to the character of Thiels. That's what I meant by "speaker cones between them and the floor". These are typically solid brass cones with the flat side attached to the speaker via a threaded cylinder (i.e., bolt without the head) and with the spiked side toward the floor. The impact on the CS-6's was spectacular and immediately evident. Send me an email if you would like more details.
Ozfly: I take that what you are talking about is in replacement for the included spikes Thiel supplies with their floorstanding speakers?
Yes. I opted for brass cones/discs because: 1) They looked a lot nicer and that appealed to my wife, 2) I was able to purchase brass pucks with the cones so did not have to leave permanent marks on my wood floor, and 3) By the time I ordered the cones/pucks, I'd forgotten that Thiel shipped the spikes with their speakers (they were in the box). Well, what can I say???

However, I did try the Thiel spikes later with the pucks and didn't like them quite as much (though they are certainly better than no spikes at all). Good catch. Since the cones/pucks weren't very expensive, I continue to recommend them. But, no reason not to try the spikes first, especially on carpet (I'm still not crazy about leaving holes in the wood floor). Thanks Zaikes.
Are you guys still listening to the CS 2.4 loudspeakers in 2017?
Hi @rcoppel 

My room is about 14' x 23'.  In stereo mode, the speakers are about 8' apart tweeter-to-tweeter, and 4.5' off the front wall.  I am sitting almost 10' tweeter-to-ear.  I can confirm tonight.  I'm not worried about the sides as I'm absorbing the first reflection.  

I've pissed around with different placement (including moving the chairs), but this seems to be the one that offers the best balance and imaging, in my room.  

You can see it in Virtual Systems. 

Good luck. 

Warren
Warren,

once I complete my system- the speakers will be 8-9' apart tweeter to tweeter. 2-3' from back wall, my sitting 9-10' away.  This is how I will start my journey towards the Absolute Sound.
Shane Buettner wrote in the Audio Perfectionist Journal:

I achieved the sound I liked best with the 2.4s just under 7 feet apart (center to center), with a distance of just over 9 feet from each speaker to the listening position (an included angle between the speakers and listener of considerably less than 60 degrees, which is less than Thiel’s user manual recommends).

In my 24.5' x 17.5' room the distance from the coaxial mid/tweeter to the respective side wall was just over 5 feet and each speaker was more than 5 feet from the front wall. This did not optimize bass performance in the room as there was little if any boundary reinforcement from this position, but produced the best soundstage with the most coherent, convincing, precise imaging and best soundstage depth.

Hope this helps.

Warren
TY- Warren

I like SB writings.  My room is 16'w x 12'd x 12h.  It is a place to start anyhow.  Happy Listening!
Thiels are not known for their bass. I'd pick up a quality subwoofer; 10-12 inches should do it.
"Thiels are not known for their bass."

What the hiccup does that mean?

That troll bait went rancid a long time ago.
I own 2.4SEs so I know what I'm talking about, sir.
I had cs6s for a while and never got enough bass out of them either.  I added a sub (JL audio Fathom 13) and that did it.

It is true that many Thiel models need proper (high-current) amplifiers to fully bloom in the bass. What are you/were you using, dweller and bundy?

Dave

BAT VK-300SE integrated amp (300wpc @ 4 ohms) and a B&W ASW 650 subwoofer. The 2.4SE employs a 10 inch woofer which is fine but won’t give you the stomp of a powered 12 inch subwoofer.
The Thiel 7.2s, however, are a different story...
^As have all the Thiel CS 2 versions before; the 2.4's have 8" woofers.
There you go...
As do my 5i's.

Dave
For what they have, Thiels have quality bass -they just don't have a lot of it. They do, however, blend very well with subwoofer bass.
dweller-

post pics here in Virtual Systems.  Good to see a fellow CS 2.4SE owner.
Happy Listening!