Once again, I gotta' agree with prof.
I've been in a pseudo self-quarantine since June (no depth perception and zero vestibular balance)'
My 27s, plus sub, are a superb way t0 cope with the isolation. |
Once again, I gotta' agree with prof.
I've been in a pseudo self-quarantine since June (no depth perception and zero vestibular balance)'
My 27s, plus sub, are a superb way t0 forget the isolation. |
@vair68robertt
I'm still waiting to hear from Rob G on why my or all 2.7s have this wiring instead of the straight wire that was standard in all other Thiels
Earlier, in a discussion about 2.7s in another web page, Jim Thiel was reported to have said that when the 2.7s were designed, he used information he'd gained from the 3.7s. |
jafant,
I've been pseudo-quarantined since last June, only foraying out to go for medical appointments.
With only one good eye, there's no depth perception, and a serious fall last year destroyed the vestibular balance. No depth perception plus no balance equals an accident waiting to happen.
I get groceries delivered to the home, and my Health Care woman stores them away and helps me do the cooking.
My 27" iMac is my window on the world.
But thankfully, it could have been a heck of a lot worse.
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Yeah! The classical CD collection is getting a workout.
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I started my Thiel experience with a pair of 3.5s - - the only infinite baffle floor-standing speakers Thiel put on the market. I called Thiel, and somehow ended up in a conversation with Jim Thiel. Our conversations lasted over a few years, with our last conversation being about the amplifiers to drive the current line. He said that there was no substitute for clean power at both ends, viz., at the several watt level and the hundreds of watts level. He steered me to Bryston. I now have a pair of 2.7s and a SS2 subwoofer connected via a PX02 crossover. A Bryston 4bsst2 amplifier provides the watts. It took some time to find the best speaker placements, but now I'm a Happy Camper. The |
Hi jafant,
I became an audiophile before WWII, listening to Victor Red Seal 78s on my parents console using cactus needles. After WWII, I began building and assembling a series of systems, including using the Thiele Small parameters to construct my speaker cabinets. I transitioned from Heathkits to Scott, then quit assembling the components when I got hooked on Macintosh. I went from 78s to 45s to LPs, to reel-to-reel tape and finally to CDs.
I switched from tubes to solid state when the supply of KT88s became iffy in both quality and quantity. I'm a classical music nut, with more CDs than common sense. My current CD player is a Bryston BCD-3. My children and grandchildren are wondering why I don't switch to streaming - - but that's another story. |
Hi ,Jafant
According to several posts by the CEO, Bryston has purchased a good stock of the transports for any future repairs of the BCD-3.
Except for a Magnum Dynalab FM tuner, I'm 100% Thiel and Bryston.
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prof: I have to agree with you. I'm running 23 feet of 10 gage Blue Jeans cable between a Bryston 4Bsst2 and a pair of Thiel 2.7s
Couldn't ask for anything better, including the cost of having Blue Jeans make them for me - - and with spades. |
Had them make the interconnects from my preamp to the amplifier |
Tom and Prof
I was able to listen to both the 3.7s and 2.7s at my dealer for several hours over a couple of days.. (I could afford either pair)
Maybe it's just me, but after continuous listening sessions, I decided The 2.7s would "wear" better for extend listening in my living room, as I fire up my system for two or three hours almost every evening for serious listening to classical music.
I believe there might be a difference between short term versus long term attentive listening to content, rather than listening for flaws in reproduction. |
tms,
I had two conversations with Jim Thiel while I was using the 3.5s. He steered me to the Bryston amplifiers. So far, I've had a 4B in its variations, and am now using a 4Bsst2 for the 2.7s. With a 20 year warranty, I don't have to worry if something goes kaput with the amp.
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I added a SS2.2 sub and positioned it between the 2.7s (PX05 crossover). Nice |
For me, the SS2.2 is ideal, as you're not yanked up in your seat when the sub cuts in. Just the impression of the 2.7s low frequency being extended. None of that "Hey, there, I"m a SUB" |
I'm just wondering in the differences we hear between the 3.7 and the 2.7 is based on the type of music we tend to play. Also there's a difference in sensitivity between the two: 3.7 at 90 db; 2.7 at 87db.
I auditioned the 3.7 and the 2.7 with my own CDs that I had played on my 3.5 pair. I'm a classical music nut, so I took a selection of symphonies. operas, chorales, requiems, organ pieces and chamber music. IMO, the dynamic range of a properly-recorded symphony (Beethoven, Mahler) might go from barely audible to"full blast;" however, to capture the barely audible on a properly-recorded RedBook CD means the recording isn't jammed and compressed into the maximum loudness levels sometime used by some of the modern jazz and rock bands. Ergo, with a decent RedBook CD, you shouldn't need to twiddle the preamp volume control once set for the soft sounds. That might make a difference in the relative loudness one appreciates between the 3.7 and 2.7 Just a unscientific thought by someone committed to RedBook CDs YMMV
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prof,
When I get into that mood with the 2.7s, I Cheat!!
Yeah, I cheat and pull out my STAX Lambda Pro Headphones for a while. Entirely different listening experience. |
I remember only slight differences between the 2.7 and the 3.5, Sensitivity of the 3.5 was 88 db, the 2.7 is 87db; however, the 3.5 was a infinite baffle speaker with (to me) a slightly lower bass. The 2.7 is a bass reflex design. Not being able to do any direct listening comparisons, I'd surmise I selected the 2.7 as it sounded similar to the 3.5 with my CDs. I didn't have to change my amplifier or preamp. Of course, the driver placements in the 3.5 were different from the ones in the 2.7, having separately-mounted treble, mid range and bass, and of different material than the 2.7 |
ronkent
Another reason for a manufacturer to burn in electronic devices is to ensure they continue to work to specifications under the advertised voltages and loads. If solid state components are to fail, they'll do it very early on. It's for the sake of the warranty. |
rankest,
I do remember Julian, and read many of his articles in Stereo Review and elsewhere. (BTW: We were both about the same age)
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From the Thiel 2.7 Owner’s Information:
"The CS2.7s, like most speakers, require a period of playing before they perform optimally. The time required depends on how loudly the speakers are played; more time is required if played softly, less if played loudly. At least 200 hours at moderately loud levels are required before the speaker is performingnear optimum. You should notice even more improvement after 300-400 hours of playing." |
I still have Issue #1 of The Audio Critic (and all the rest) Peter Azcel was an interesting writer. Being trained as a electrical engineer, I followed his articles with interest. btw: I'm 95+ (really!) |
OOPS Misspelled Pete's name. Should be Aczel |
prof
Re: Those really heavy amplifiers.
Cajole a neighbor's youngster into doing the heavy lifting.
(worked for me)
Saves a trip to the Orthopod.
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I pulled it off, as there was too much extraneous stuff in it for a real answer to your query.
Yes, I learned about and really came to appreciate classical music via the old Red Seals, 77, 45, LP. reel-to-reel and CD recordings. Additionally, I began listening to classical FM stations in the 50s. I was fortunate to be able to see some operas at the Met, the Chicago Lyric and Washington DC Kennedy Center. My Air Force career and subsequent employment let me attend performances of symphonies and opera in Vienna, London, Milan,Rome, Paris and Germany. What still sticks in my mind is Risa Stevens in Carmen, Christoff in Faust, Ramey in Boris and Mestopholese, and attending the Volksioper, where we saw Boris - - sung in German! And, the Anonymous Four’s concert, sung from the middle of the Nave in the National Cathedral.
I’ve never been a true high-end audio guy - - just building and buying things to let me sit back and enjoy recorded music without picking apart the reproduction, per se. I wanted to listen to the music, and not the equipment.
Beginning by building speakers (using Thiele-Small where possible), I came to believe speakers ARE what define excellent reproduction, and so my quest has been to find speakers that will let me listen to the music and performances I know and love. Just a few thoughts |
Have to agree with tomthiel.
(f you can place the amplifier somewhere between or very near the speakers, do so. Run short 12 or 10 gauge equivalent cables to the speakers. Run either balanced or unbalanced lines from the preamp to the amplifier. (Balance preferred over long distances).
Works great for my 2.7s. I have a 25-foot run between preamp and amplifier.
Note: I'm not specifying any particular cable manufacturer. The trick is to get large diameter copper cabling. 16 gauge cables are a No-No, as you'l be putting several hundred watts through to the Thiels.
Just my experience YMMV
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jafant
Good as expected for a Certified Old Fud.
Spinning a recently-acquired Helmut Walcha's Collection of Bach Organ Music. The 2.7s and SS2.2 never sounded better.
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Tom,
When did they close out the SmartSub line? I was able to get one of the last SS2.2, together with a PX05 that had been modified for the 2.7s. I tried to get another 2.2, but my dealer had closed his Thiel line due to delivery problems.
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Tom,
I have an SS2.2. I'll have to move it out from the back wall to get the serial number.(It weighs a short ton!) The 2.2 has a different "back panel" than the 2. Looking back, I probably got one of the last ones produced, as when I went back to the dealer a month later to get a second one, he said there were no more. It's interesting I was able to get the PX05 with a caption for use with the 2.7 speakers. (The PX02 was out of production). I have not tried it via the LTE input, although the owners manual shows the capability to connect both the passive PX and an LTE at the same time. |
Tom,
I'm an ancient electrical engineer and pre WWII ham radio type who cut his teeth on Heath kits, with JBL, Altec Lansing and Tannoy speakers (building my own cabinets.)
I can still learn something every day, and you really contribute to the knowledge base of this forum.
George |
I have a SS2.2 in the center between a pair of 2.7s It's fed via a PX05, as the Integrator was no longer being made.
It adds about another perceptible octave to the lower frequencies and to what my grandchildren call the "air" to classical music. A larger one might be better, but I believe an SS1 might not be sufficient to provide the desired LF extension. YMMV |
As an aside:
I'm driving a pair of CS 2.7s with a Bryston 4BSST2. I have a 14x22x12' living room, and the 4B can drive the 2.7s to very loud volumes without discernible distress or apparent loss of SQ. (Classical and organ music only - - no jazz, rock or heavy metal)
Tom
Jim Thiel steered me to Bryston with my 3.5s, and I've stayed with the 4B series since. |
thielrules
That's correct; however, I could crank up the volume on the 3.5s without distortion.
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If you choose the 3.5s, be sure to get the equalizer |
I used a Bryston 4B with mine. No distortion at louder levels. |
Glad you're a happy camper with the SS2. I'm the same with mine and the 2.7s.
Enjoy!! |
giantasalami
I had 3.5s for several years. Excellent for all types of classical music (including organ). They DO need an amplifier with cojones. Jim Thiel suggested the Bryston 4B, and I was grateful for that advice.
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prof
My son will inherit my system. He's measured the 2.7s and has built shipping crates for them. He did remark he's thankful he had the carpenter's tools to do the job. He called it a royal PITA! |
Must agree with Tom. Over time, I've ordered classical CDs from Amazon that were no longer available currently, but had to be produced as a "one order" item.
I have yet to receive a decent one. Grrr! |
oblgny
Only 62? Ha! You still have 25 to 30 years ahead of you to enjoy your music through a good rig.
Just be selective, as retirement funds may not equal what you have been able to spend previously for changing out components.
Just remember that the cost vs desired performance for audio equipment isn't a smoothly-increasing line on an x-y plot. It has a sharp elbow at about the 95-97% point, and further minute increases in perceived enjoyment can cost megabucks.
Learn to listen to the music for enjoyment, and not for nit-picking the upper midrange sounds between 901 and 902 hz.
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. |
prof
BTW: Google Geoff Kait |
prof
I was able to audition both the 3.7s and the 2.7s, with my own classical CDs, in the same location on the same day. Loved both; with the only difference being the falloff in the bottom octave. However, size decided in favor of the 2.7s. Later added an SS2.2 sub, and am still very, very happy.
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Very interesting web page |
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Must agree with prof. " . . . Please Don't"
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jafant
I'll be interested of your impressions on any significant differences between the BP-26 and the BP-17c in high frequency reproduction..
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jon
I'm with you. . . "I can sit back and relax."
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Tom,
". . . their lab/listening reference monitor was the Thiel CS3.5. Now, isn't that special? "
At least some one had good taste!
(Former 3.5 owner)
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