Audio Research or Luxman?

Hey Jerry,

I own a 507ux and have compared it with modern ARC 75W integrated and I really prefer the Luxman.  In extension, the Luxman makes speakers sound bigger, and the extension at the top end is better without a hint of harshness or grain.  They also have a lovely tube like midrange, but it's not at all juicy. 

I head the 50x line is being discontinued so right now may be a great time to find a bargain.

Best,

Erik

Before throwing the towel in on the ARCs, ensure the tubes are fresh and well-rolled. Iffy tubes can take an amp down a few pegs.

Yes , check the bias on the KT150s is on point , additional expense I appreciate however pre 1990 production S Petersburg reflector 6h30- DR make a significant upgrade in fidelity compared with the ARC supplied later production tubes 

tastes change, there will be a ready market for the ARC gear. A competent tech should be able to gin up working potentiometers. Music Reference still has some NOS Nobel pots in tock, both stereo and mono in a variety of values. Just my $ or ¥
 

I am a discrete ladder robot in a continuous arc about the Sun

Also, check FleaBay, many Japan vendors of vintage Luxman gear, perhaps they have a line on parts in country…

Thanks for all the comments so far. I recently purchased both ARC's used, and had both serviced by an authorized dealer. All tubes measred well, and bias settings are correct and have barely drifted since acquiring the amp.

The original pots are from Alps and not longer available. I'd try finding Japan sources. Do you, tomic601, have more information on that or Fleaboy?

I should state that I am thrilled with the sound quality of my ARC gear.

Erik: are you predicting each of the current 505, 507, and 509 will be phased out soon?  They all still say “ New” on the site. 

@kren0006 

I sure hope not!! It was something another A'goner told me via private message when he was looking to buy.

Their prime competitor, ,Accuphase, though does offer a lot of flexibility, including built in DACs in their units. I would not mind seeing an all-in-one Luxman integrated that included a DAC in it, but I'm all out of cash for this lifetime.

Ok, just checking because you said “50x line”, which I interpreted to mean all three. Did you mean just the 505, or what exactly is being discontinued

@kren0006 My understanding was that the 507ux II, which only recently replaced the original, was being discontinued.  Whether this means the entire 505, 507 and 509 are being discontinued I don't know.

Of the three the 507ux would seem to be the most popular (guessing) so if it's going I can't imagine the others remaining.

Audition esoteric integrated before luxman.  Started demo with luxman and bought the esoteric.  Knew they were a leading digital player, no prior experience with their amos 

I believe the 507UXii is being replaced with the 507z with some upgrades. Not sure if/when the 505 or 509 will be updated. 

@erik_squires 

       Audio research integrated can not compared with  audio research separated,large difference. I guess that why they did not make out  many models.

OP search eBay for vintage Luxman and you will find the Japan based dealers.

+1 for Nobel for volume pots. Would be very surprised if there is not an equivalent that can be used, only issue may be space to fit. As for balance control, would suggest it is not required.

If not Nobel I would hope that any reputable service engineer would be able to find a good quality suitable pot that would fit and probably better than the original.

@audiojerry 

You might find this guide to identifying pre 1990 6h30-DR’s useful, they are expensive but you only need a pair 

http://www.aca.gr/index/hiend/hiendArticles?row=1988

I don't know specifically, but after years of a Luxman CL-32, I put an Audio Research SP-6B in my system and it woke-up.

I always wanted an Audio Research pre-amp, but could not afford one.  The old one I got used was in perfect condition and sounds 10x better (more accurate) than the Luxman ever did.

Not sure if that is true with the 2 items you are auditioning, but BUY WHAT SOUNDS BEST IN YOUR ROOM and forget all the "opinions" we have.

Cheers!

It depends on what level of Audio Research you are talking about.  For example, within the last month I had a one hour audition of Wilson SabrinaX speakers both with the Luxman L509x integrated amp ($10k) and also with the ARC separates LS28 and VT80 stack (about $20k).  I preferred the Luxman as being more dynamic with better grip on the bass and just a better presentation.  DAC was a Chord dac.  So it depends.

Personality I didn’t have chance to compare, but close friend of mine was using his  Luxman 507ux as a preamp with his tube monoblocks for years and was pretty happy with SQ until he tried Bespoke passive preamp instead. He was really shocked with the SQ improvement at all points. I understand that every setup is different and his experience couldn’t be dogmatic for everyone but the outcome was pretty interested. 

Based on the sound of my one and only Luxman, and what you describe, I would definitely keep/use the Luxman.

I agree, a good tech can get you volume controls inside.

Anywhere near NJ? I am sure Steve Leung at VAS can get some very nice volume controls in it.

Another option, is to use something like this Chase RLC-1 Remote Line Controller, for some or all of it’s features. NEEDS the remote, no on-board buttons.

Try as I may, or my friends may, we cannot tell if it is in/out of the system. it’s 120 S/N ratio makes it invisible

. Office, I use it only for remote power of my Luxman (leave it’s manual power switch on). Then use the Luxman’s inputs and remote volume. I/you could just use the Chase remote volume. Main system, out now, currently evaluating new to me CD players hooked up directly to the Cayin and alternately thru the McIntosh mx110z preamp. It will go back in, I expect un-noticeably, except features. I love having remote balance. I find many tracks benefit a lot from a small balance tweak. I use my preamps inputs, Cayin’s remote volume, I will switch to Chase volume, and use the Cayin’s pre-in. Now, Furman controls power. I may run the power 1st thru the Chase, then leave the Furman’s power switch on, use Chase for remote power, volume, balance, loudness. RLC-1 also has built-in automatic/progressive Loudness for low volume listening, infrequent use, but important when I do, primarily keep Jazz Bassist present.. Most people misunderstand how to set Loudness up, when done right, it maintains involvement at low volumes.

Thanks for all the great advice! I will follow through with your suggestions.

I recently bought a new Luxman L-505uX Mark 2 and it’s driving my KEF Reference 1 speakers so sweetly! I could only be happier if I had a LOT more money to go up the line. Someday, I probably will.

I am aware that the L-507uX Mark 2 will soon be replaced by the L-507z. Other models are also slated to be upgraded, but it will take over a year or more to happen. Of course prices will also rise with the change.

kren0006

1,670 posts

12-21-2021 10:20pm

It depends on what level of Audio Research you are talking about. For example, within the last month I had a one hour audition of Wilson SabrinaX speakers both with the Luxman L509x integrated amp ($10k) and also with the ARC separates LS28 and VT80 stack (about $20k). I preferred the Luxman as being more dynamic with better grip on the bass and just a better presentation. DAC was a Chord Dac.

___________________________________________________________

I’m not surprised with this. I currently own the Luxman L-590AXII(~$9k) and Naim separates NAC 282, NAP 250DR, Hicap DR (~$15k) and the Luxman sounds better. Speakers are Marten Duke 2. Another person who compared the same Luxman model with a higher range Naim separates costing up to $30k (NAC 252, NAP300 DR, Supercap DR) also preferred the Luxman. He found the Luxman to sound more refined and sophisticated than the Naim separates.

I have not owned many quality separates, and the Luxman L-590AXII is the most expensive integrated amp I currently own. I have owned the Audio Research LS16 and tried the integrated before, forgotten the model since it was long time ago. Nevertheless, there isn’t any doubt the Luxman is a very special integrated that is able to give the costlier pre power options a run for their money. To me, the Luxman is quality. After getting the piece into the system, I now don’t look at other hifi gear or upgrades anymore. It’s pure joy listening to music on the system everyday as my love for the Luxman and the system as a whole has increased tremendously since the day I acquired the amp. Although it’s just an integrated, it performs and punches above its weight, and it’s an eye candy as well.

I believe the other Luxman models will sound equally great. Class A and AB options to cater to different speakers and/or preferences. Just make sure the amp matches the speakers and you’ll be in audio heaven.

ryder, do you notice any issues using your 30wpc L-590AXII driving the Duke 2  3.8ohm (minimum)? The Duke 2 is not easy to find in the USA. Where are you located?

Your volume and balance pots can't be replaced because you've got the wrong tech working for you.  Find a better tech.  

Alps is not the only company making volume controls and even if they were, they have modern equivalents. I recently replaced a worn out Spectrol wire wound VC with a Penny and Giles with great success. I would look at the Khozmo line.https://www.khozmo.com/index.html

Your volume and balance pots can't be replaced because you've got the wrong tech working for you.  Find a better tech.  

It was not just my tech who told me the identical Luxman volume/balance could not be replaced. A business known for doing vintage restoration, Hudson Valley HiFi, told me the same thing. L507 Restoration by Hudson Valley HiFi

They did say that I might be able to eliminate the balance pot and look for a compatable replacement, but it would not be easy or inexpensive. 

Thanks for the Khozmo link. They look to have some high quality alternatives.

Luxman raised their prices substantially. The 550 ax11 class A model went up $1000! Ridiculous. You are paying for the meters. I would rather have my Sugden no nonsense class A integrated minus the meters. You can add a cheap Vu meter from ebay made by one little Bear & douk audio and get a similar effect. As far as I know, the Sugden is still @ $3250 for the A21 se signature...at least they are not gouging customers. Sugden pioneered Solid State class A in 1967...half the price of the Over priced Luxman, and most likely sounds better. How in the world you can justify bumping the price of the Luxman from $5495  to  $6495 is beyond me. 

rwwear

I had it out for a few months during my quest for a better sounding CD Player. I just put it back in yesterday after I settled on my Yamaha DVD-C961.

I’l mess with it, in/out/direct to Cayin, Preamp thru Chase or Direct to Cayin.

I’ve got a perfect track to compare the bass: Mila Drumke, Hip To Hip, track 5, My Funny Valentine: Just her voice and Bass Player. It’s a terrific CD.

Phono, Bass, lots of choices, Blue Nile comes to mind, Walk Across the Rooftops, I just replaced my LP and have it on CD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxK7AZEdVbU&list=PLgtOYAIvc8d1iIcZxqjpcAO9WwL8J_Ar1

Luxman raised their prices substantially. The 550 ax11 class A model went up $1000! Ridiculous. You are paying for the meters. I would rather have my Sugden no nonsense class A integrated minus the meters. You can add a cheap Vu meter from ebay made by one little Bear & douk audio and get a similar effect.

Dude, who hurt you?

Audio Research 

rwwear

You were a dealer, I won’t challenge your experiences, here’s mine:

Preamp has two outputs, I set up matched volume, instant remote A/B

A: Preamp direct to Cayin Amp, CD In

B: Preamp thru Chase RLC-1, to Cayin AUX. Raise Chase volume to match ’A’ volume.

Results: same as ever: Zero difference. Over many years, 3 units, 3 systems, no one here can hear any difference with that Chase RLC-1 in or out.

Based on your comments, I specifically concentrated on Bass, no change.

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IF the volume relationship of preamp/amp/Chase RLC-1 is not done properly, tubby bass can/will definitely occur:

because the Chase has built-in (automatically progressively engaging) ’Loudness’ designed specifically for low volume listening, gradually boosting the bass as volume reduces. ’Loudness’ is a stupid name, and MOST people do not understand/set ’Loudness’ correctly.

Proper ’Loudness’ setup: Chase (other device) at DEFAULT volume startup, starts pretty low with no ’loudness’ engaged. Raise volume at the preamp or amp (not the Chase unit): UP to your normal listening volume, then never touch that preamp or amp volume again.

Now, use Chase for more volume, no loudness. Use Chase for less volume, as you go lower, ’Loudness’ is automatically progressively engaged. i.e. keeping Jass Bass Players at proper level relative to everything else. That is what maintains INVOLVEMENT at low levels for me. Fletcher Munson curves are REAL.

Chase unit remembers where the volume is left, so it is easy for someone to leave it low, bass boost involved, then, next turn on, mistakenly raise the preamp or amp volume, thus raising Chase’s bass which will be tubby at higher volumes.

In a store, you have no control over who did what, when.

I unplug my Chase unit, to get it back to defaults periodically, to make sure all is set correctly. Main system, one I just re-installed and evaluated, I added a front power switch to easily get back to defaults.

It's the same for it's remote balance. it remembers where last set, say a squeak left. I forget, turn system on the next day, it plays whatever a squeak left. Another reason to do the default reset. 

My McIntosh mx110z Tube Tuner/Preamp also has ’Loudness’, switched, on or off. I never tried it because the Chase handles it for me.

You may know, people had tricks to disable the Chase’s ’Loudness’. They simply used it wrong, took away a valuable feature.

Following recommendations from here, I purchased a Chase off ebay, but the unit doesn't appear to be compatible with my Luxman because I can only use the main-in on the Luxman. According to the Chase owner's manual, the volume setting on the amplification device should be set to half volume. I can't use the volume control on my Luxman because it is faulty along with the balance pot. 

Is anyone interested in buying my Chase? 

audiojerry,

I ASSUMED you had more than one source equipment, thus I mentioned the Chase Unit.

We are talking about getting you listening until you find someone who will repair the Luxman’s internal volume controls someday, correct?. After that, you may still want to use the Chase for it’s remote features. (4 inputs, volume, balance, low volume loudness)

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Now you are going straight into the 507’s Main In with a source component? It’s not too loud? Then hook up the Chase, it will be just fine.

In any case, I think you should try the Chase before you part with it. Chase’s default volume is low, if not too loud you are all set. If too loud, that’s a problem, you cannot start with the Chase below it’s default Volume for your normal listening level, as the Chase will have engaged ’Loudness’ before you want it to, it will make tubby bass as I explained above.

IF too loud, you could put the Chase into one of these manual stereo volume controls, then go to your amp’s main in.

Not audiophile, but it isn’t active, get’s you going.

1. Chase at it’s default volume (unplug, plug it in to get defaults). (on/off does not go to defaults, it retains ’last’ settings).

2. Chase out to intermediate manual volume control

3. Manual volume Control to amp’s Main In.

4. Set manual volume control at your Normal Listening level, leave it alone after that.

5. then use the Chase for Remote Volume, up or down, now getting proper advantage of the automatic ’loudness’ at low volumes,no loudness at increased volumes, and advantage of it’s remote volume and balance for tracks that benefit a lot from a small balance tweak.

....................................

After you find someone to repair the Luxman’s Volume controls, remove the intermediate volume control.

Then, like me, my fancy eared friends: try as you will, you simply cannot find any difference with that Chase In or Out. It’s S/N 120db is real.

I am flabbergasted each time it makes no difference other than adding all it's features. My preamp's volume works manually, my Cayin has remote volume, I go without the Chase, with the Chase,  

this is a simple remote volume control

Additional advice is appreciated. Just to clarify, when I placed the Chase between my source and connected to the Luxman main-in, the sound was audible from my speakers, but the volume level was very low and could not be adjusted up or down. Everything else on the Chase worked: balance, treble, bass. 

I don't want to use a simple potentiometer for volume adjustment as it would degrade sound quality, and I have learned how amazingly good the 19 year old Luxman amp sounds. When I use my Audio Research Reference 3 preamp or connect the Luxman directly to my PS Audio DirectStream Dac, it makes me wonder if I should look into a newer model Luxman.   

Jerry. You would be better off connecting the Chase between the pre out/main in jacks on the Luxman.

Elliott. I don't doubt your experience with the Chase, it was along time ago that we sold them and I tried it with an Audio Research tube preamp.

I ordered the two CDs you recommended.

That was a nice suggestion, rwwear2. Unfortunately, the issues with the   volume/balance pots on the Luxman continued to present themselves through the Chase. Balance drift and volume on/off issues persisted. I have boxed the Chase and will be sending it back to the seller. 

audiojerry

The Chase volume does start LOW, 2 red lights out of 5 lit. It's volume change is very many small steps, click click click ..., 3rd light, click, click  click ... 4th light  up to 5 lights then a few more clicks.. It ought to get pretty loud when 4 lights are lit.

Try it on a different amp. If volume (all features) does not work, then the Chase is defective, you should return it. You bought on eBay, so even if seller does not take returns, IF it is not what the seller said (working), PayPal will refund the money to you, then they go for a refund from the seller themselves.

Long Shot: One option is to try both outputs, try the rear, perhaps rear is working but the front outputs are dead. They are identical signal, early quad era, not a different rear.

There is nothing inside except a few printed circuit boards and a small transformer, no moving parts, so I don't know how some functions work and not others. 

I had one arrive dead. Transformer Connection broken, evidently UPS played football with it. Seller gave me a refund. Never had any issue with 3 of mine.

audiojerry

do the red lights change when you try up or down?

where do you live? I’m in Plainfield, Central NJ. If close enough, you can borrow one of my working units, I have a spare, and we can definitively prove yours does or does not work.

IOW, perhaps that Luxman has other problems, perhaps erratic.

Elliot,

Yes, the red lights change when I press volume up/down, and I kept the volume button pressed for a long time. When the lights changed it had no effect on the volume level.

I live in Wisconsin, leaving soon for Arizona.

I appreciate all your help, but I'm afraid my Luxman is simply not cooperating with the Chase.  

Jerry.

You will probably need to remove the Luxman volume control from the circuit to get the Chase or any other VC to work.