$25k speakers, are we there yet?

First, treat your room.  It will get you off your speaker/cable swap merry go round quickly.

Hmm. Stock KTM exhaust or aftermarket with a tune / ECU remap? 

Imo your sourse if the most important since everything starts and starts there.

for example buy the Excellent Denafrips Terminator plus it is superb on. Most any level ,just give it a very good power cord and clean power ,your system will sound as real and natural  by far then the vast majority out there and a bargain at that .

i have heard this dac against dacs at 2-3x the price for $6350 ,

the closest to this ,the HoloSprings May KTE dac  which is not far behind .

First thing you should do is isolate your speakers from the vibration of the Earth and the other speaker which will also isolate all your electronics, the best product to do that is called the Townshend podiums, they're not cheap but unbelievable how well they work it's like changing all your electronics it was that much better check them out read the reviews.

ASR members walk away. For the rest of us.

Well there is something to be said for speakers that have good FR, IR, do not suffer compression, and have well behaved radiation pattern. And then we can talk about cabinet resonances, or a lack of them.

Whether one likes measurements or not, the speaker designers that are not using measurements, and do not provide the, can sometimes be viewed as hiding something.

These big expensive speakers really do need the stars to align for us to ever reach their potential so when my last speakers didn’t do well with the source I had instead of upgrading the source I swapped speakers. What do you need to hear/see/know about your speakers to take the next step and build a 20 year system around them?

It was not overly difficult years ago to find a set.
They have lasted a few decades.
The rest of the system is now to the point that maybe I should consider a speaker upgrade.

What are your goals for speakers?
Musicality? Or something that is neutral and accurate/correct?
Without some “goodness” metric it is hard to agree one what is good… or to compare two speakers and find one is more good than another.

@havocman 

If the vibration of the earth is relevant then you need to isolate yourself from it as well.  Stick some podia under the feet of your listening chair.

Boing boing.

i just bought the Denafrips.  what wrong with the stock power cord?

All depends on what sound you are looking for.  The room treatment cannot change the tone or clarity or slam, or the separation as well as upgrading the parts in your components.  You have to know what makes something sound the way it does.  Think of old Counterpoint equipment for example.  Sounded pretty good back in the day but the parts today are so much better that what was used in them.   Upgrading the parts and a few other things takes you to a level you probably cannot buy today.  IMO to many people are chasing something in sound that they can already have with upgrading the parts quality and a few other items.  How do I know this, we have been repairing and upgrading audio components for over 20 years.  We have heard and compared more components than most people have heard.  It comes down to knowing what makes the sound you want.

Our listening room in Northern New Jersey is open for all to come listening and enjoy.

Happy Listening. 

My experience is that speakers are what actually make the sound and so will define the sound of your system more than anything else. Find something you really love and buy it. If the rest of yor components don't match up to your speakers, fine. Take time over years and upgrade things piece by piece. With each upgrade you'll hear a world of difference. My example is that I had a pair of Vandersteen 2Ce. I loved them. I ran them with an old Rogue 66 pre and m120 monoblocks. My main source was a project debut carbon. When the opportunity arose I upgraded my speakers to Vandersteen quatro woods. This was a huge step up. It sounded better but my components were not letting them shine completely. Over the course of the last 5 years I've upgraded my amps to m180s, upgraded my preamp twice now to an RP-7, upgraded my turntable twice now to a Brinkmann Bardo, upgraded my phonostage twice now to a rogers PA-2. When things sounded not quite as stellar as I though they should Iade some tweaks that isolated my speakers and gear from the floor. It sings like I've never heard before. And truthfully, the speakers are probably capable of more. 

My point, if I haven't successfully made it yet, is that go nuts on the speakers if you can. Fill the component gap later. You'll be increasingly happier as time goes by.

When I was speaker hunting, I really wanted to get a pair of KEF Blades, but couldn’t get to hear a pair and really couldn’t justify the price. I ended up buying the Reference 5’s. There was just something about paying over 25k for speakers.

@bigkidz +1

(I don’t also think that room treatment changes the direct sound.)

What do you need to hear/see/know about your speakers to take the next step and build a 20 year system around them?

I think if you are near NJ, then you have a solid offer from BigKids.
If you are elsewhere, then there are other good places.

I have heard some great speakers at $5K, $10k, $20k and $40k.
I am, totally confident that I could put together a great system from any of them.
So it doesn’t matter a whole lot as they generally do not have  much in the way of flaws at those price points.

I am really looking hard at a $5k set, in fact I am pretty committed, but it all went a bit sideways.
 

Yeah we still need front ends, and room treatments are seldom a bad thing. Minor treatments can sometimes even pass a WAF test.

I am not a fan boy of Vandersteen speakers but we have the 5As and 7s in the room.  With our components, they sound better than I have ever heard them at a dealer.  We also have Sonus Faber, Vivid, and Horning speakers.

All are welcome to come for a visit and bring a component or two.

New KMD Orchestalls Reference speakers from South Korea are a Major-Breakthrough for speakers. 

 "The world's first speakers that sounds like LIVE MUSIC"

www.kmdeng.co.kr/KMD/elementor-1042/

 More info on You Tube too

Buckhard A700s I watched an amazing YTV $15,000

I prefer great-sounding speakers over 25K ones. If you pay that much you better understand a bit about loudspeaker design. If one DIYs at that price point you have near unlimited options. If you buy new you are limited to most likely a tower or bookshelf maybe a big maggie or K horn. Sure other options exist if you search them out and are in the know but most will end up with what I suggested. How boring is that?

I actually backed into my Magico A5's as I knew my VPI/Mac setup was not going anywhere. Started with the A3's after numerous attempts at speaker nirvana and quickly upgraded after listening to the A5's. Paired with a B&W DB2 sub side firing from behind my rig with plenty of room treatments has yielded a system that fully satisfies. Highly recommend listening to the A5's and starting with the most important component of any system.

You ca pay $25K for new $25K speakers or you can pay maybe $10-12K for used speakers of the same model.

Personally, I think that the best result is to pay $25K for some used $50K speakers.....

I have lusted after Wilson Audio Watt/Puppies since I first heard a pair around 1990. I just bought a pair of used Watt/Puppy 8's, set them up in my small listening room and am "over the moon" happy. I have listened to them for hours on end today with no fatigue, just a big 😊.

No need but if I had money to burn and helped save the world already first with it sure why not. 

@wspohn:  I'm with you on going used and the value, (value no matter the range).

Mine were far less than half off, used but mint. Great burl wood looks and more stunning sound at that level of engineering (at least imho, Raidho D2s).

My approach with what I know now is to first consider the audio space… am I moving? Is there another option? Then when looking for speakers I am looking for the right sound quality and the right size for my space. So, I love Sonus Faber speakers… they have exactly the right sound quality (when driven by the right electronics). So I chose the “correct sized” ones for my space. 
 

When going for a major upgrade, I choose the speakers first, then optimize the electronics and acoustic treatments… then the little stuff. 
 

I am fortunate to have a really great audio space… so I was able to pick among the  levels of SF to choose the right size. 

You can make many inexpensive loudspeakers sound great if you know what you are doing and have the tools. Most Audiophiles would rather juggle cables and tubes then get down to the reality of the situation which means spending money on measurement tools, digital signal processing and room management so you can fix the problems. 

Most audiophiles have no idea what they are listening to. How many of you know exactly what the frequency response of each channel of your system in your room is? What does flat sound like? Audio Systems need to be calibrated just like video projectors if you want to see what the director saw or hear what the recording engineer heard. 

@jerryrocks - you suck!  The Magico A5s are what what my high end reviewer buddy told me today is great speaker.  Much different that some of the other models.  Just heard his large new Wilson speakers and they sounded pretty good also but mucho bucks.  They are now on my very short list of speakers to hear.

Happy Listening.

@bigkidz Thanks for the compliment!? I am a big A5 fan. They were designed to compete with more expensive speakers and after listening to the Wilson line am convinced they can hold their own against the next couple of price points.

Also, I sold my A3's for the same amount I paid for them.

@jerryrocks - you still suck!  LOL.  If you are every in the NYC area, drop me a line there are plenty of audio freaks and reviewers near me plus we have a dedicated listening room filled with many goodies.

@bigkidz - you're on, I travel to the big apple about twice a year

@jerryrocks - perfect - I'll buy lunch and we can sit and listen for hours in our dedicated Listening Room.  There is always a bunch of components and speakers to listen to.

Peter

I built a 20 year system around my MAGICOs.

david_ten

5,244 posts

06-19-2022 at 12:35pm

Hmm. Stock KTM exhaust or aftermarket with a tune / ECU remap?

midpipe, sas removal and the akra map :) The dealer just made me a crazy offer on my 2016 for the 22 evo so next week it’ll be a full akra on a matte blue evo.,

Buying and selling used I have tried a half dozen speakers I was interested in, There were still a few pair on my list when a pair of near new Blades came up locally so I bought them. I think these are the ones but there’s still 1 pair in particular I really wanted to hear b4 settling down. Now to finance those V A ’The Music’ I would have to sell my Blades, and then it might take some serious luck to resell the VA’s and find another pair of Blades for what i’d sell for. I know I’m a first world wuss and yes when I’m playing my system I’m not thinking about the one that got away. If you’re still with me I think audio groups would serve us well, music lovers with my ’grass is always greener’ affliction. Anybody in the far west chicago suburbs want to try and get something going, or invite me into an existing group?

I agree speakers are 50-60% of the total experience.  

I've gotten the audiophile bug again.  I've been an audiophile for over 50 years. No upgrades for 12 years.    

I started listening to new speakers, a well priced pair of B&W 800s. They were not to my liking. I felt them harsh.    

In the other room were outstanding speakers and after many many hours of listening went with the Sonus Faber, Ill Creamonese Ex3me.  To my ears they are magic.   I expect these are my 20 year speakers. 

I resisted HTbypass but the 2 channel through the AV processor (marantz AV10) is not fantastic.  Tidal through the Moon 390 is fantastic.   I may be done.  Then this can be upgraded.

My source is digital only as I lost all Cds and vinyl 12 years ago in a fire.