Who has Luv for the Lyngdorf 2170 and is thinking about the 3400.

@cwho1228 --  I have the Matrix on my Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 and the match is spectacular, a definite step up from the Graphene Extreme, as one might hope considering the difference in price.

For the money, it will be hard to beat the Graphene Extreme. For best sound quality period, it will be hard to top the Matrix. YMMV, etc.

@cwho1228 

From what I have read here from users ...yes. I have no experience though.

Thank you so much for all your advices! I will try to get the Cerious Technology Graphene Extremes cables. However , will the Matrix series match Lyngdorf as well?

Thank you for replying to my question. Since at the moment I leave in Israel, I actually made the purchase decision of this amp and a pair of upgraded Tekton DI's (Still waiting on Tekton to let me know when they will be ready for shipment), based on posts in forums and some pro reviews alone. It seam like a good place to start. I still have some old Cardas interconnects and speaker cables that I like and now will be looking for some digital and power cables as well. I also have a Synology DS716+ NAS that I intend to use as an audio server. Any suggestions will be great help.

The opinion will be that yes, it will make a difference. But experiment for yourself and see. If you have an upgraded cable on another piece of equipment, try it and see if you perceive a difference. If no, then I would buy a cable you can return for a trial. Just because it's digital doesn't mean clean power isn't required. I spent a lot of money for a linear power supply for my music server/HTPC. It made a significant difference, as an example. There is nothing done analog with it's realm of influence.

Hi guys, just got my 3400 and I'm wondering, it being all digital, should I use the supplied power cord or is it worth investing in a different one? What are your thoughts? 

@cwho1228

If you want warmth, body, musicality and organic. Get the Cerious Technology Graphene Extremes cables. 30 day trial.

Another choice if you cannot get Cerious in your area, I would try Blackcat cables with one of the copper based offerings. Blackcat is all about music, not analytical.

@cwho1228 I get no discernible harshness or analytical sound with my Lyngdorf TDAI3400.  It's so "neutral to warm" sounding that I no longer use my 300b Tube amplifier! I use Analysis Big Silver Oval (BI-WIRE) speaker cables, and their Power Oval MK II power cables.  My speakers are the Tekton Encores.  This has proven to be a very musical combination!  

Hello from Hong Kong! I m one of the happy owners of 3400. I am using Siltech 770 L to connect the amp to the Atc scm40 speakers. It sounds great, pin point imaging with grwat detail. However,i found the sound a bit harsh and analytical , lacking the warmth vocal that I missed a lot on my Naim and Mcintosh gear. My question is can anyone reccommend a good match. Speaker cables for my setup. Thanks. 

Yes you can use an external amp with room perfect.  You would need to run a second room perfect analysis for the combo and store as a second.  You can also run room perfect with the 3400’s amp and save that and compare over time.  

If anyone is interested on Lyngdorf's feedback to my question. Here it is:

1. If I were to use the XLR analog output of the 3400 and then input the analog signal to a external amplifier, would I be loosing out on the capabilities of the 3400. I under stand I would lose out on the 3400 amplification but what about the ROOM PERFECT sound quality. Would I degrade the capabilities of ROOM PERFECT by using an external analog amp? I would turn off sub-woofer output on the 3400. I demoed the system this way (but without RP) and it sounded good. I am going back for a RP demo in a short while.

Answer: "you can set the outputs freely, RoomPerfect just needs a full stereo playback for its calibration "

I also asked them if a slim speaker worked best with RoomPerfect. I either read that somewhere or someone told me the urban audio legend. 

Answer:; "we have never heard of any comments as to slim front profiles being better"

Sounds like I can buy the 3400 confident an external amp will also work with RoomPerfect. 

@jcarcopo That's what I thought, but I wasn't 100 percent sure. Thanks!

@david_ten It was with the TDAI-3400 feeding the Diavolo 300b SET Amp with Room Perfect on in both scenarios.  They sounded so similiar I decided the tdai-3400 was great sounding for me on it's own merits.  It's very neutral to slightly warm sounding with no harshness or grain.  It's very musical. 

It was not an easy choice because they sounded so similiar that it drove me crazy

Jonathan, is this with the 3400 ahead of your Art Audio Diavolo or are you saying they sounded "so similar" as standalone/separate amplification chains within your system? Thanks. - David.

Seems they no longer sell the stand alone room correction unit.  Cable quality is not a function or price. Not every high end cable is best for your particular room, rig and preferences. Once you get the unit just determine if all sounds as you want after some 200 hours of break in. Perhaps you want more of this or less of that or an improvement in some sonic attribute. As other owners have found, owners ready to sell of their units, time and due diligence with cable pairings etc brings long term joy. 

@yyzsantabarbara I sold my Art Audio Diavolo SET 300b tube amp for the tdai-3400. It was not an easy choice because they sounded so similiar that it drove me crazy, but in the end the extra headroom and clarity of the TDAI-3400 won me over. This of course was with Room Perfect on.  Best of luck! 

@aniwolfe Thanks for the feedback. I really loved the sound of the preamp on the 2170. If I get the 3400, which I expect too, I will give it the 400 hours and enable RP. I need DSP in my small now treated room. I am hoping to get some speakers that may not be suitable for this small room. It really depends on what the DSP is capable of doing. 

If I feel that the amp does not make me happy then an external amp will always  be a safety net. I will wait on feedback from Lyngdorf to this external amp question before I make a buy decision on the 3400. I emailed them earlier today.

The Lyngdorf web site does not seem to have the preamp only version. If it did I would have just bought that and be done with. I want to get the latest software bits on the RoomPerfect and it seems to me that they have discontinued the preamp only model.

The cabling that was used in the demo was expensive hi-end stuff. I think it was called Straight Wire. I am not sure if a conditioner was used. I have good wires at home and also a conditioner that works for me, Torus RM 15. Only uncertainty on the demo was the amount of hours on the Lyngdorf unit.

@yyzsantabarbara 

I bought into the 2170 buzz and truly love this unit. Did it blow me away the first time I installed it?...NO. It took a bit of time for things to settle.

When RP is disabled the amp doesn't sound anything "special". When a proper RP reading is made and it is enabled, its truly amazing to my ears with my equipment.

Now I know someone that sold his 2170 because he called it "Clinical". Too me its far from it.
When he told me what speakers he used. - Focal and Wilson with those bright Metal Tweeters, it didn't surprise me.

Just  like with any piece of equipment it takes time to get the synergy right. Sometimes it happens right away and sometimes it doesn't. Good Luck!

The analog outs on the 2170 are not a strength in terms of the unit’s design. I never said it was not meant to be used with another amp. I said if you want the best sound then going through the analog outs you will be sacrificing sound quality vs using the unit fully as intended. Just buy the Lyngdorf separate room correction unit then.

In the end do what sounds best to you in your room. Just do not plop down and play the 2170 and expect the best out of it. It likes full bodied cabling, nice power cord and conditioning and at least 200-400 hours of run in.

Once you dial it in with intention and a little effort it will make you smile and save you money on separate amps, dacs and additional cabling.

@bullitt5094 I only have a pair of KEF LS50's left at home. I needed to evaluate this unit with more demanding speakers.

The dealer has offered to have a DSP shootout for me in his glass walled conference room. It is slightly bigger than my room but it has 2 or 3 sides with glass panels. It is an awful room acoustically. He offered to demo the DSP on the Lyngdorf | Linn SELEKT DSM | Anthem STR. I will take him up on the offer though I am inclined to go with the Lyngdorf based on the preamp sound I heard. 

My issue was with the amplification but as I mentioned above I will talk with Lyngdorf to get their opinion.

@grannyring  You state that the Lyngdorf is not meant to be used with a separate amp. The only reason this could be is if the signal from the preamp to the amp is further adjusted via ROOM PERFECT. I did not use RP in my demo so maybe I missed that part. One thing we did do was turn of the sub-woofer output on the 2170. When it was on the Simaudio sounded awful (as expected).

The observation of the dealer and myself with the SimAudio amp in the chain was that the sound was really good. He said that it was the best he had heard the Paradigm Person 5F.  They usually use MAC equipment with the Persona.

When you consider the MAC DSP unit licensed from Lyngdorf I picture it doing the DSP and then outputting a DSPed analog signal to an external amp.

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/specialty-products/MEN220

I think I need to email Lyngdorf and ask them on this separate amp issue I am bringing up.

What grannyring said I totally agree with. And I will emphasize the need to evaluate equipment in your listening environment. You have zero idea what's going on with the set-up at that dealer. He apparently has a demo 2170. Take it home and listen to it. 

I probably posted this at least a dozen times on this thread and others but yes I have tried many other solid-state and tube amps with the 2170.

The 2170 always sounded better by itself. Yes you should’ve run room correction and that is my quote above suggesting that the unit should be left on for best sound.

It is impossible for me or even you to know how that amp really sounds based on one visit to a store.Everything matters when it comes to getting the best sound out of this unit. The cabling being used is important and room correction is certainly an aspect that should have been turned on to at least listen to.

Anyway, in the end you will have to listen to it in your own space and determine if you want an additional amp. The unit is not made to use an additional amp to sound it’s best. The possible exception would be using the digital out in which you could use the 2400 amp.In fact the analog outputs and additional interconnect and connectors nullify one of the greatest aspects of this unit which is the short signal paths and built in synergy.

Rereading this long thread I saw the following quote.

Lyngdorf will need the following to sound its best;

- let it burn in for at least 200 hours before any decision making critical listening
- needs a good power cord and conditioner
- leave it fully on. It sounds much better after being on 12 hours. Leave it on, not in standby.

I went and demoed the Lyngdorf 2170 with Paradigm Persona 5F speakers. They are not that hard to drive. I was not impressed by the amplification on the Lyngdorf. When I switched to Lyngdorf pre-amp output to a Simaudio 860A amp the sound was incredible. Now I am a little puzzled by this given the raves that people on here are stating about the Lyngdorf. I did not have ROOM Perfect enabled since the room was rather nice to work with.

My question here is, does the amplification stage of the Lyngdorf need a lot of hours to sound good? This was a demo unit at a dealer. I forgot to ask how many hours it had on it. Though the preamp section sounded incredible. The unit was not plugged in when I came into the store and I got the impression it had not been played for a while.

I am considering doing a comparison of the Lyngdorf with the Linn SELEKT DSM with DSP enabled. You can ditch the amplification module on the Linn, and use an external amp, but you cannot remove the amp on the Lyngdorf. However, given my research on the various flavors of DSP and my demo of the Lyngdorf I am inclined to buy the Lyngdorf and a separate power amp. More costly to me but I need a DSP preamp and the Lyngdorf seems like it has a good combination of ease of use and quality (except maybe the amp).

Anybody using a separate amp with the Lyngdorf? Are you also hearing improved sound with the separate amp? Or did I just experience a demo of an 2170 amplification stage needed more running in?

@shkong78 I wish I could tell you the 3400 bests the 2170 in sound quality, but I never heard the 2170 to compare them. I would assume it could potentially sound better since you have much more headroom which would hopefully equal less distortion at similiar volume levels.

@ jcarcopo

I can play my Lansche 4.1 speaker loud enough headroom with both 2170 and 48watt SET.

My speaker is 99dbw spec(but I guess real efficiency is around 95db) and its two 10 inch woofer driven by  internal 500W  amplifiers.

The volume of 2170 could be around -20 with enough loudness in my spacious listening room.

I prefer 2170 to SET in playing progressive rock by Queen with more transparent sound and sharper focus.

But I prefer my SET to 2170  with Jazz vocal and classical music.

By the way I am also inclined to try out 3400 not for more power but with more presets and options of room correction like pre adjusted curve.

Will 3400 be also better than 2170 in SQ not just power?


When I visited Korea early this month, I had auditioned Totaldac(12K$) and MSB Select Dac(90k$ crazy price).

Both sounds good but I am not ready to spend that much money on Dac.

When I compared between 2170 and EMMLab Dac2 that I had paid 9k$ 8 years ago, they are comparable to each other.

Thomas

@shkong78  I ditched my 300b SET amplifier in favor of the TDAI3400 neutral to warm sound and the clarity I gained in the midrange with Room Perfect enabled.  Unfortunately the 10wpc Diavolo SET wasn't able to fill in a 100hz suck out in my room which caused it to soft clip and major clip at higher volumes when using RoomPerfect.  I miss my SET amp a little bit, but I gained so much headroom and midrange clarity using the 400wpc internal amplifier in the Lyngdorf with RoomPerfect enabled that I'm happy to trade a little warmth for the sonic advantages I have now. 

I haven't been to shows recently, but back when they were marketing this gear under the TacT label,  every show I went to had some, albeit minimal, room treatment during their demonstrations.

Reflective of up front gear and cabling is really more accurate. I have mine teaming with warmth and intimacy with my mods and gear.  

Update on 2170.

For some music, I prefer the sound of 2170 to LM SET 508.

So I now take turns of amplifiers  depending on music

2170 seems to be more transparent with little bit more details.

LM 508 has more warmth and body.

2170 seems to be sensitive to digital cable and front source.

Didn't work that way in my room. But as we know, every room is different. Why don't you try it both ways, as I did, and decide what you like. Room Perfect may be the only correction system that may be able to pull this off. But it seems to me, not having the system try to eliminate areas of cancellation electronically vs suppressing the waves to start with, has to be harder on the speakers. All I know is my room has very good imaging all the way across the sound stage. It actually startles people. Now a lot I attribute to my speakers, which is another variable in the whole situation. Hopefully yours will sound better untreated. More money Lyngdorf saves you! So far you don't need a five figure D/A or expensive room treatment. The amp just paid for itself.

Feedback from Lyngdorf on whether Room Treatments can be used with Lyngdorf Room Perfect:

"hi
you do not ’need to’ remove anything
- but if you have ex. a bass-trap, we would recommend removing it, as having RoomPerfect removing energy from the signal is better for the speakers, than removing energy from the room through the bass trap

Best regards
Flemming Smith
LYNGDORF AUDIO"

I think you are right @bullitt5094.I will add that I used it in a treated room with RP on to even greater sonic pleasure in my old dedicated GIK tricked out room. 

I aways think you should set up your speakers and room  for success, then run RP. 

My impression of that statement is, a Lyngdorf is capable of correcting an untreated room to level that it will sound better than competitors where the room has treatment. Not, if you have a treated room, don't use a Lyngdorf. A treated room should require less room correction by the Lyngdorf. In fact my 2170 is in a fully treated room and I actually don't use roomperfect at all. The Lyngdorf sounds awesome in it with no correction. IMHO the less signal processing required, the better. But if you need proecessing, RoomPerfect works extremely well.

Found this little nugget on the following thread. So maybe the 3400 is not ideal for my room, due to the treatments.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/lyngdorf-discussion-thread.1580956/page-4

" This is why after spending 20 years or so learning about room design, we no longer recommend specialist acoustic design and treatment in the majority of rooms where Steinway Lyngdorf systems will be used.

If you read the threads where Steinway Lyngdorf systems are demonstrated at shows you will notice they are always in completely untreated rooms. Many other manufacturers spent a fortune building the best spaces to show off their systems at shows and still don’t get the same feedback as Steinway. See below. Compare the cost of the systems and the room designs and Steinway Lyngdorf systems are often a fraction of the price of the high end alternatives being show."

I have a small room that is in the process of getting room treatments from GIK Acoustics. I am considering the 3400 and was wondering if having room treatments is a detriment to the functionality of the Room Perfect system. I would assume it would not but wanted to verify with some actual RP users.

I have not decided on speakers yet.

BTW - are there any dealers that provide for home demos of the 3400? 

Thanks for the advice guys.  I just wanted to test what kind of improvement in sound quality i will get from having the room correction added.  It took me awhile to put my system together and I like what I have, so I really don't want to get rid of it.  The Lyndorf sounds great with the RoomPerfect activated, but it sounds a little different from what I am used to.  It is hard to describe.  

What you are describing is rather odd. It's an integrated amplifier and best used on its own. You can use the preouts and use the unit as a preamp through the analog out but to use it from a preamp to the 2170 to the power amp is not really possible that I can figure out. 
Did you try it on it's own before you want to try and go this route? 

I just bought the 2170 and would like to use it only as a room correction unit.  I like my system setup but my room is small.  Is there an easy way to set the 2170 between my pre-amp and power amp and still have the RP works effectively?  Any help would be appreciated.    

Understood and thanks for the update! 

The amp was new and I was able to put about 220 hours on it at high power levels before really deciding.  Cables were stock, Nordost Frey2 and Wireworld Electra.  I used the internal Dac with USB.  
I gave it a fair trial and it just never sounded real to my ears.  It had a vail that I couldn’t shake.  Didn’t better the Ayre VAC or Luxman amps I’ve owned.  The room perfect is great but my Devores are fairly easy to place.  I did position them way out of whack,and when I did that, I was surprised how well the room perfect feature tuned them.  I’ve heard other high quality class d amps from T+A and SPEC from Japan and while I appreciated some qualities, I just found that over time I was listening less.  If I had the choose between the Lyngdorf and the SPEC I would go with the SPEC because it had more of that “in the room with the musician” quality that is important to me.  

@bjesien



Was the amp broken in? Brand new? What was paired with it? Did you use the internal dac and usb input? What power cord did you use? Thanks ahead for this additional info.

I agree that speakers always influence the sound the most. Followed by the room. But the amp will influence the sound of any speaker. I auditioned the Lyngdorf against other amps including LTA. LTA is the best tube amp on the market IMHO because I hate second order distortion sound and it's tranformerless design minimizes that. Also tested against some pretty high end Class A offerings. I'm puzzled how you would gravitate away from this amp. Well actually I do understand. If you are use to tube distortion or Class A distortion, you probably won't like undistorted sound of the Lyngdorf. I gravitate toward the Lyngdorf because it's the closest to a "wire with gain" I've ever experience.

I had the opportunity to try the 2170 over the last week and a half in my home.  I was impressed with some of what the Lyngdorf did, but felt it was not close to my sound preferences.  I left the audition puzzled at how members are gravitating towards this amp.  I think in my case it was a speaker (Devore) and sound preference (Tube or class A) mismatch.
I've owned many speakers in the past where a change of amplification didn't make that much of a difference in sound.  Auditioning this amp reminded me why I love certain speakers and how the journey, for me, must first start with a speaker.  I've heard other members say they build systems around an amp.  Maybe others start with a turntable.  This is not a knock against digital, solid state or tubes, just my observation that all the links matter, at least to my ears.  
 

+1 on Tony. Great down to earth dude unlike some of the snobby d..ckweeds around. 

Final post on this, I hope! My 2170 was returned to Lyngdorf for repair of a problem I've had from day one. It often would not come out of standby unless I cycled the power. Lyngdorf finally figured out what the problem after denying they had one and repaired mine at no charge including shipping. It now seems to work correctly. And again, thanks to Tony at Ellington HIFI for stepping up and handling this process when the dealer I purchased it from sold itself and no longer was Lyngdorf authorized. Please give Tony a shot at your business. After listening to my top-end Denon HT amp for a while, I now appreciate the Lyngdorf even more. I am spoiled.