Who has Luv for the Lyngdorf 2170 and is thinking about the 3400.


Hello All,
I’m coming up on 40 yrs in this hobby,and or obsession of ours,and I started with a pair of Khorns and Macintosh at the age of 12 and Offcourse owned a ton of different gear over the yrs.
I bought a 2170 a little more than 6 months ago and I enjoyed it so much that I quickly realized I don’t really need anything else,solid state,tubes,or even dac’s anymore.I could step off that silly merry go round of amplification and just enjoy music.I was able to utilize the extra money and time and put together a really great sounding network audio system that rivaled the best in analog that I have ever had,I was mainly a analog guy all of these yrs but finally gave it up,I even sold my longtime record collection of 3k records which included many Hot Stampers that I purchased and also several that I found on my own.

So who Luv’s the 2170 and is maybe also thinking about the new 3400.

Happy Listening,
Kenny.

kdude66
Glad to see you can stream to the 3400 over Ethernet. That was one of my issues with the 2170. I don’t want to go back to usb audio.
There’s not much in the way of reviews on the 2170, nice to see a few owners here. It really seems like folks are happy if you can get over the retail price Per watt. I’d love to hear how well room perfect was for you.
Thanks!
Yes,USB audio can be quite a mess but with proper selection of the gear in your audio chain it can be also quite excellent.
I use a upgraded and modded Audiovox network switch then to a pair of FMC’s,that remove any noise or grunge that Ethernet can have,I than connect to my SOtM ultra 200 via Ethernet cable and than output via USB to the Lyngdorf.
I’ve definitely discovered that everything in the digital world makes a difference,sometimes not for the better.

It would be nice to eliminate any usb stuff in the chain though and go directly in with a Ethernet connection,but since I use roon,tidal and output to HQ player,it’s not clear to me if the new 3400 will be Roon ready.I need to email Lyngdorf and ask them.

I also use the Acoustic Revive LAN noise isolater between my cable modem and router,I’ve tried it in different positions but seems to do the most good in that spot.

More to follow,
Kenny.
Huge 2170 fan here. Auditioned it in my home vs Odyssey Kismet and recent top tier LTA products and it was, very surprisingly to me, easily the best performer. And this included both Analog and Digital input evaluation. I continue to be amazed at its abilities. As close to a "wire with gain" as I've ever experienced. If you like second order distortion, it may not be for you. But if you want to be in the studio during the recording session, you may want to audition it. And despite it's digital backbone, it doesn't have any class D amplification characteristics I can detect. It's very "natural" sounding to me. And it has an undetectable noise floor. You hear everything.  

It really seems like folks are happy if you can get over the retail price Per watt. .
It does eliminate the need for a DAC. That's a big dollar factor too.
Kenny, good to hear from you. That a lot to say from someone who has owned real nice audio gear including some great tube electronics. 
Can you comment on how do you like the room correction feature of the Lyngdorf and particularly how does it affect the sound quality in terms of soundstage, size of the sweet spot, etc.?
Lyngdorf lists the 3400 as Roon Ready and Spotify Connect are part of it's streaming services.
How good is the amplifier section of Lyngdorf? I wonder if it makes the most sense to use it as a dac/preamp and hook it up to a tube amp. Or is it shines the most when use it as a complete dac/preamp/amp package?

Does anyone know what kind of class D amp technology they are using inside - hypex/icepower? which generation? or something totally different?
Something totally different. I believe the amplification section is extremely good.
Scroll down this article until you see "Amplifier Class of Operation" in red font and start reading. Their solution is pretty interesting. https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/amplifier/integrated-amplifiers/lyngdorf-audio-tdai-2170-fully-d...
Anyone know what part Texas Instruments plays in The intergrated amp is ? My buddy said they are used . Is it similar to the modules Crown uses from Texas instruments . Curious minds want to know .
Something I found online was it being used solely as a preamp/room tune here, system 2

https://www.stereophile.com/content/california-audio-show-2015-striking-gold-day-3
Hi Kenny,

 I’ve sorta gone along the same path as you recently, jettisoning my vinyl rig and CDT/DAC, ripping my “keeper” music on to an SSD as FLAC files. 

I just received a Naim Uniti Nova, that accepts input from a sonicTransporter i7 via a bridged LAN . The Naim, like the 3400, is a do-it-all, needing only music storage upstream and loudspeakers downstream. It lacks the room correction engine of the 3400, but I have the Roon DSP engine should I need it.

I’ll bet the 3400 is a fine example of these small footprint, multifunctional products that force no significant compromises versus the old school audio systems they replace.

Enjoy the music!

John
Wow I haven’t heard the old “Watts for dollars” thing in many yrs.
I know for myself with the gear I owned at the time of receiving the 2170 from a dealer in Alabama for a demo in my own system for a week,that’s when I decided on the 3rd day that the Lyngdorf was certainly a keeper with great promise,just needed to really learn about this technology and optomize it in my system.
When I was finished selling off unneeded gear,preamps,amps,dac’s,I easily put 40k back into my pocket.I don’t even count all the cables and pwr cords not needed any more.

The Lyngdorf needs to be used as the one box solution that it was designed for with only digital inputs being used,even though it has analog inputs that actually sound very good when I have used them just for experimentation in my system or others.The analog outputs via a single ended connection are intended for subwoofers,but I have tried some diff. Pwr amps just because But wasn’t that impressed with the sonics of a different flavor in amplification when I’ve been greatly rewarded with the sonics it produces all own it’s own.

After I used this new kid on the block in my system and Offcourse sent the very accommodating dealer a check,I had put about 400 hrs or so which was enough time for complete break in.The Lyngdorf needs to be powered up all the time and you can program the display to go dormant after a min or two,switching to standby doesn’t really work.I have only had my Lyngdorf off when I’ve taken it out of my system for testing or taken to a friends system for demo purposes.

I needed to backup what I was hearing with some measurements of my own,so I took it too a friend that has all the proper test equipment and found out in harmonic waveforms that the 2170 puts out mostly 3rd order harmonics with a good quanity of 2nd order as well.But definitely has no nasty sounding upper order harmonics at all and the 2170 uses zero negative feedback of any kind.

Nelsen Pass,who has always been one of my top Idols in this industry wrote a very interesting article about amp distortions and what may be pleasing or not pleasing to most people.

More to come about the 2170’s topology and room perfect.

http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_dist_fdbk.pdf

Kenny.
“Lyngdorf lists the 3400 as Roon Ready and Spotify Connect are part of it's streaming services.”

I did see this info but haven’t seen the 3400 added to the Roon list of Roon ready devices.Not a huge deal breaker for me.

http://lyngdorf.com/tdai-3400/

I have just sold my present speakers which are PPA trio 15 with the Beyma amt tweeter and in the next few weeks will receive a pair of Silverline Audio Bolero Supremes and also Lawrence Audio Double Bass speakers so I’m looking at a 3400 for possibly needing more pwr than what the 2170 has into 8ohms.I’m gonna try the 2170 with each speaker and then decide. I’m also not in any hurry to buy the latest anything,let the dust settle and make sure it doesn’t have any bugs.

Kenny.
“Something I found online was it being used solely as a preamp/room tune here, system 2”

The 2170 has digital outputs to use with their own digital pwr amp,I’ve never tried one,but I’m sure it could be used with active powered speakers such as those Dyn’s.

Kenny.
@kenscott, the show report about using the 2170 as pre/dac I think used the digital out from the 2170 and let the active speakers do dac/power, just conjecture.

I’m very much enjoying the back and forth. My budget is slim and Ive settled on a blue note vault 2 for MQA decoding/streaming from Tidal. I have an old Technics for my albums but will only get used 5% of the time. My condo will be my home for many years to come and the room is huge and odd shaped with tall ceilings. Speakers need to be very close to the wall (WAF) so looking at either active dynaudio active speakers and turn down the bass, or passive dynaudios + 2170 (used) with room perfect or primaluna tube intregrated + dynaudio passives. I think I’d benifit from room correction as I can’t really do proper acoustic treatments. Being budgets what they are it’s a bit of a dance... I could always purchase active dynaudios now and hunt for a used 2170 as folks flip them for an even better sound acting as a passive room correction. I’ll let you folks get back to it and thanks to the OP for starting a dialog. 
Yes the 2170 changed my life. I listen to music in my home 12 hours a day. No TV. It never gets too warm, consumes only 20-25 watts of power, is lightweight and attractive, and is not a fussy piece of gear to own. I keep mine on 24/7 for best sound with no worries.

It makes your speakers sound as the designer intended in your own space. It replaced $20,000 with of tube gear, dac, and assorted cabling! It simply sounds wonderful. Always musical with beautiful tone and ease. Music is never forced or edgy. I have tried several tube amps with the 2170 and the 2170 sounds best on its own. Yes even better than the tube amps I used with the 2170 as a preamp.
I even tried Lyngdorf’s own 2400 amp hooking it up with a digital cable. No, the 2170 sounded best on its own again.

Room correction, in my estimation, does so much to improve the sound that you quickly forget about tubes in the system. I tried yet another tube amp last week as I do love tubes and building point to point wired tube gear. This was a nice el84 based amp using old Scott iron. I have been working on the amp for some time. I love the sound of the amp, but in the end the 2170 on its own was better yet again.

The 2170 is the absolute center piece of my system and I love it!

Being an avid DIY guy I did do a couple of things to my unit that voids the warranty😔, but the results were stellar. Just check out my virtual system to read about the details.

I can easily and whole heartedly recommend this one box system to all here on the Gon.
@grannyring Given the 2170 is about 3 years old, do you think the digital to analog conversion of 2170 can be vastly improved? Given how this keeps improving every year, I'd be curious to know if 3400 has a difference compare to 2170 in terms of digital to analog conversion in addition to power.

This is the only reason it's giving me a pause of having  a 2170 as a long term gear - what if the digital to analog conversion gets outdated fast.
@grannyring
@kdude66
Question for you guys.  I just spent a lot of time on optimizing my DI's with room treatments and adding subs.  The subs are in the corners and the DI's well out into the room. See my pics--https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/7021
So I read that the room correction works best with speakers right up against the front wall.  So what is your experience with speaker placement/room correction.  Is it compatible with subs? Thanks.
The 2170 isn’t a class d amp per say,it works differently than other class d amps.
The 2170 and probably the 3400 as well,not enough info on the 3400,use a Texas Instruments chip that converts any incoming “Digital” signal into PWM and then any kind of Dsp is applied to the signal at this time,that would include volume setting,room perfect,and the preset voicings,which I don’t use but have played with.The finished dsp corrected amplified signal is then converted to a analog waveform right before the speaker outputs.

I know I had the same concerns before buying one of being outdated in 2 or 3 yrs like any other dac,but with the conversions that are taking place from the digital side only I don’t see any concern to be obsolete any time soon.

Now if you do use the Analog inputs,the incoming signal is converted to pcm 24/96 first before being converted to PWM,I can’t recall the dac chip offhand,It’s a top quality chipset that’s common in today’s technology but certainly will be obsolete or outdated as time goes by.I don’t use any of the Analog inputs,I only stream a Digital signal from my Roon endpoint via USB,so I personally don’t worry about it.
I also use HQ player in combination with Roon and tidal,and Offcourse HQ player uses software for its upsampling and filtering with lots of everchanging capability.All I know for sure is any change that I make with the HQ players settings definitely are reflected in the sound.

I don’t know anything about what Crown is using nowadays,I haven’t used any of their gear in yrs,so I can’t comment on that.

Kenny.
Post removed 
I purchased a 2170 about 3 weeks ago.  I was driving my Spatial Audio M3 Triode Masters with a Linear Tube Audio MZ2 and  ZOTL10.    I am extremely happy with the results and what Room Perfect has done both for digital and analog.  It is like a veil has been lifted from the speakers.

I have Bluesound Node 2 connected to the digital input.  Previously I had the Bluesound connected to a Denafrips Pontus DAC.  I still have my Technics SL-1200GR TT/Parasound JC3 Junior in place connected the analog input.  

I have sold my preamp, amp and DAC and couldn't be happier.

The next step for me is to rearrange my room to place the speakers on the long wall and to add a second sub.  I have one Rhythmik L12 and just ordered a second.

I did not place my Spatial Audio's against the wall since they are open baffle.  Right now the single sub is placed between the Spatials but I will move the subs outside of the main speakers as Lyngdorf recommends when I rearrange.  

Nick

We’re getting some good questions here that I wished I could answer,the 3400 should have more than enough pwr for most speakers without needing the external 2400 pwr amp that they show on the website.Kinda confusing to me and I agree with what has already been said,not enough info yet.

I know very little about the Hegel or Naim products that are similar but I don’t believe they utilize any type of room correction that I have ever seen,and for me that made all the difference in my room.

I’ve played around with what Roon has in their lastest build but I got no where near as good results.

Kenny.
Both Lyngdorf units have digital crossovers built in, the 2400 is shown in the stack as an example of bi-amping perhaps.
I’m gonna try my best to explain my thoughts from experience using Room perfect correction and maybe I can answer some of the questions that members are asking.

I don’t have a treated dedicated listening room anymore since moving 3yrs ago into a much smaller house,so our living room is our main listening room and for tv as well.Luckily this room is 12x25x9 and has no corners that are close to the speakers when set on the long wall.To keep up the WAF factor I decided not to go crazy with room treatments and deal with the compromise in other ways,most Listening rooms are compromised in some way.

My experience with Rp was initially not that great and took some work in learning my room better,so I end up with only 5 mic positions and very little correction on the Lyngdorf.Room perfect isn’t 100% perfect and you most definitely wouldn’t want any kind of speaker placed really close to the wall.Basically with some trial and error and six different times of going through the setup,over about a months time,I found the best mic positions and correction that I feel took the room completely out of the picture and I’m hearing the true character of any speaker that I have.As I mentioned earlier I’ve just bought 2 sets of used ones and I’ve sold my Pap trio 15’s locally.So I’m currently using my highly modded Jbl L-150’s that I purchased in 1982 that I’ve kept all of these yrs.With a careful setup and placement of these old uglies,that’s what my wife called them,I’m getting sonics and sound quality that I never knew they were capable of,but I still want my others to show up.

I’ve noticed a much better and more precisely layered soundstage with Rp than any system that I’ve ever had before.With experimentation I do believe you can transform a system to have a wider and deeper stage that to my ears is believable and realistic but you don’t just plop the Lyngdorf into your system and hook it up and expect miracles.

The Lyngdorf can work wonders with subs also,has built in crossover’s that you can use and also with the mains if they aren’t full range,you could high pass your mains at 40 to 60 Hz and take the load off of the amp and speaker which might increase your midrange clarity and focus.

More thoughts another time,
Kenny.
I have used the 2170 on several different speakers in two different rooms. Harbeth 40.1, AZ Crescendo, Tekton DI, and now the Living Voice OBX RW. Room Perfect was a breeze to use and each time greatly improving the resulting sound. I did not experiment that much on where I placed the mic, but followed the instructions given. Each speaker benefited greatly from Room Perfect. My first room was well treated with all manner of absorbtion, bass traps, and diffusion around the room. Roon Perfect also improved the sound in that room.

Lyngdorf states you can place the speakers up against the wall behind them and still get great sound. I agree that Room Perfect helps with this arrangement if needed. It is not the best placement however. If you have no choice, then RP will certainly help. However, for best results the speakers should be placed where you get the best sound without RP and then you run RP for the best sound possible in your room. I have no doubt that more experimentation with mic placement, per Kenny’s comments, may well yield sound even more to one’s liking. Very versatile piece of gear.

I also think the simplicity of the system is yet another reason why the unit sounds so great. System complexity is greatly reduced with very, very short signal paths. Think of the complexitity and long signal paths with traditional separates and all manner of long cabling. This traditional method of system assembly is more prone to noise as more cabling and longer signal paths certainly create the environment for additional noise and sonic degradation. .
I should also mention the wonderful feel, sound, and fine tuning of the volume control.  The 2170s volume dial adjusts by 1/10 dB increments.  High efficiency systems can dial in the volume perfectly, unlike those sometimes frustrating stepped attenuators. The knob has a free wheeling touch and delicacy that is a joy to use.  The remote also adjusts by as little as 1/10 dB steps.  One can still ramp up the volume quickly by remote or knob.  Just a pleasure to deal with. 
Like Kenny, my listening room is also my living room. So room treatments was something I wanted to avoid at all costs. The 2170 is the most impressive piece of equipment I have owned, when it comes to technology, features and sound. 
I have been in love with my 2170 since the morning I got it, ran the room perfect and just sat back and enjoyed the music with zero excess bass bloom .
I agree that speakers are best left in the position you get best sq without the room perfect on unless you have no choice.
This is what I did, ran 15 point mic session and was blown away by the solidity of the mid and lower bass without any unwanted boom.
The sweet spot seems to be extremely wide in my setup and although I play plenty of digital through it (Tidal and Vault 2 ripped cds) I have found the additional analog module with xlr inputs is also quite good. I still play vinyl through it and cassette analog to boot from my Nakamichi.
I use the digital out to feed a Burson headphone amp.
The software is extremely easy to use and setup and quite powerful and versatile imho.

The best all in one integrated I have tried in my system so far.
As others have said, in the real world with WAF room treatments are not always a viable option, this unit has made life easier all round in my home!
Lots of happy folks here 😁
I like what i am reading here guys. Great info! Would i be able to rid myself of the external crossover for my passive subs and just use the crossover in the 2170 for them?
Very good Informative words being written from actual owners that are digging the ease of use and most importantly the sonics they are getting with the 2170.

The volume control as Grannyring spoke about is the most transparent and at the same time,gives the very best low level detail and dynamics of any volume control implementation that I’ve ever used.That would include a bent audio tap x with autoformers.

In operation the volume control changes the pwr supply voltage only and retains the same current which most definitely helps the dynamics at lwr volume settings.

The Lyngdorf also has a sensitivity setting on each input individually and you can change the gain to match in volume with other inputs.Similar in theory of changing preamp gain but with no detected downside.

Kenny.

Yes,as mentioned before.
The Lyngdorf has built in crossovers that are completely adjustable for pairing with subwoofers.I use this feature with my pair of subs,when I use them.

Here’s a link to the 2170’s manual.

http://lyngdorf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/tdai-2170-owners-manual_v17.pdf

Kenny.
Thank you Kenny! Would be nice to eliminate the external crossover and the amp to my mains.
One thing I will add about Room Perfect.  It is the easiest room correction software I have ever used.   I have used both Audyssey and DIrac.  

Your first measurement must be in the MLP.  All other measurements should be random around the room at different heights and locations.   The intent is to get to at least 90% Room Knowledge.  After each measurement, the cumulate Room Knowledge is displayed.   Once you achieve 90%, you are asked if you want to perform additional measurements.  It typically takes 4-5 measurements in my room to get to 90% but that will vary with the room and the locations you use.  I have been taking additional  measurements to achieve 95-98% Room Knowledge. 
Great point on the volume control! This is often a place of sonic degradation in many preamps! 
I had the Lyngdorf 2170 last year for a few months, and loved it for all/everything digital.

I ended up moving on though, because vinyl playback sounded too analytical.  I had the high-end analog module installed, and used the balanced inputs with my phono preamp.

This thread however, has brought back memories of how much I did enjoy the Lyngdorf.

Curious if anyone else had that same issue playing vinyl, or are you okay with the sound?


TDAI 3400 just ordered from Hifi Heaven today!  @klh007 informed me about this newer model in the Tekton speaker thread so I figured I would go for it.  I love they added the network streamer because I use ROON and can now eschew the USB connection to my dedicated Roon Computer.  I've been auditioning the NAD Reference 22 Rev2 and will be getting some NORD One Up monoblocks to listen to in a week or so, but my money is on the Lyngdorf replacing everything including my Diavolo SET amplifier in my main listening room, but I'll likely employ it in a second system in another room.  I'm very excited about getting my new Tekton speakers and the Lyngdorf equipment and hope this gets me off the upgrade path until I meet my maker.
@robelvick.
 As I mentioned on another thread through my Dynavector. P75 mk3 I still consider vinyl to be more than good enough as it is only approx 20% of listening. May have lost a tiny amount of dynamics but not anything I went off to cry about!

Certainly nowhere near outweighed the many advantages I perceived
@uberwaltz

I may just have to give it another go..
@jcarcopo, Great news, and congratulations on the first 3400 in the field! Keep us informed on how you feel about it.

@jcarcopo, If it's OK to ask, was the 3400 much more expensive than the 2170? What optional boards did you get?
I just got the price from HiFi Heaven, $6,500 plus optional boards.
Please let us know your thoughts on the 3400!
Not had the 2170 long but if the 3400 is significantly better well......
@klh007  Do you know if they allow demos? I'd like the chance to try out the product if paying full retail (and unheard)...
Also, any chance they'll release an Ethernet board for the 2170 for "legacy users" who'd like to stream?
When I first got my 2170 six months ago,I was in the process of going all digital anyway so I wasn’t too critical with the sound I got playing analog through it.I can say this though I always have seeked a more detailed and resolving sound vs super warm and lush.Offcourse I still demanded some warmth and no fatigue also,my favorite cartridges over the last few yrs were Xyz’s if that tells you anything.My favorite stage was a Ray Samuels Xr-10b and really never liked any tubed based stages.

I’m going to be highly suprised if Lyngdorf or Pink Faun make a stand-alone Ethernet input board for the 2170,It probably would be to big physically to fit the existing case.Maybe I will be proved wrong,time will tell.

Kenny.
Jcarcopo,
I can’t believe what I’m reading,Lol.
Please keep us informed on the 3400 and I hope it works out for you like the 2170 has for me.

There’s a chap on Computer audiophile that’s in England that has ordered a 3400 and he paid the equivalent to 6k in dollars,If that’s correct than that will be the cheapest finest sounding 400 watts that I have ever heard of.🤑

I’ve already blown up my budget with 16k worth of speakers so I will just be in envy for a while.

Kenny.
I believe HiFi Heaven has the 3400 for $6499, $6899 with the optional analog input module same as I went with on my 2170, they are who I bought my 2170 from and a few other items before that
Good dealer with great customer service, my 2170 had moved a bit in shipping and the top case was scratched, they organised a brand new case top shipped direct from Denmark to me.