Throughly disappointed with my new Yamaha A-3000 Integrated.......


well, I love it when it's not shutting down.  Finally called the dealer and told them I'm done with it.  From the first day, it shut off and went into protection mode after 10 minutes of listening.  It's doing it all the time now.  I did figure out how to reset the amp, but it continues to go into protection mode.  Here's what I've done to track the issue down.  Am I missing anything?  By the way, I'm a user, not someone who can track down voltages, test wires etc etc.

1. Pulled power cord for 30 minutes- I use a PS audio PC
2. Unplugged all connections- amp stayed in protection mode with nothing plugged in.
3. I then figured out how to reset the amp.  The amp then worked for for some periods before shutting off.  Yesterday for example, playing vinyl, amp shut off after 5 minutes.  I then did the reset and listened for 2 hours without shutting down. 
4. Today, after 5 minutes it shut down again.
5. Doesn't matter if it's vinyl or CD playing.
6. I just unplugged my Sub now as the rca cables are a bit bent up; however it didn't affect play for 2 hours yesterday without shutting off.

Disappointed as I was looking forward to breaking this in over Christmas break........  
4a925e74 8fb2 45ed b8cd 2c8b701edbecdhpeck
Sorry to hear that, what with Christmas and all. It may need a replacement or a trip to a tech for what could be a simple fix. A long time ago I bought some Rotel gear and the amp's right channel just died. I took it back to the dealer who said "this is very rare" and a week later I had it back, working perfectly. 

Hopefully this won't sour your expectations with it, but stuff like this does happen now and again. You always read about it but never expect it to happen to you.

All the best,
Nonoise
The A-S3000 does seem to have a record of issues. Fortunately the 1100 and 2100 have better reliability. I doubt you'd lose much in sound quality by trading it for the A-S2100.
I was going to suggest double checking both ends of speaker cables for a loose strand, but the above amazon review suggests some sort of QC issue.  Too bad about that, but I'm sure every single brand has at least 2-3 out of every hundred sold have defects.

Still, it wouldn't hurt to power up the yamaha with absolutely nothing connected to it( volume at zero) to see if it still goes into protect.  If nothing else, it'll be extra results to give to the dealer.
thanks for the comments.  My dealer has been great.  Thank God I didn't buy it used/new online.  I like the amp so much, my dealer is going to order another one and I'll give it another try.  Hoping next one works out, because I got a really great deal on this unit and wouldn't know what to go to here with $5000k to spend.
For $5K, I am sure we could come up with plenty of suggestions.
;)
Your only only problem with 5k to spend would be the bewildering array of choices and opinions you would be presented with!
😱
What speakers are you using?  I'll bet that with an easier load the amp won't have issues.  Many Yamaha's don't like driving less than 8 ohms, even if they are rated at 6.  I'd never use them with 4.
Sorry to hear about your experience with the AS3000.  I have owned this integrated for the last few years and love it but I haven't had the issue you mention (knock on wood).  Good luck with the repair/replacement.  It's a wonderful sounding integrated.
gdnrbob, LOL / This forum certainly has a way of thinning out ones wallet. 
@elevick 

That's complete bull. It's not his speakers, he simply received a defective unit. Yamaha integrateds are 2 ohm stable. 
The dealer is getting me a brand new one, as this one was also.  I running Legacy Classic HDs, 4 Ohms I believe.  I should mention my Yamaha a-s2000 ran the same speakers no problem with a bit less power.  I pray the new one works as I can't fathom the thought of finding something else I'd be happy with.
I listened to that amp while I was auditioning speakers and it sounded really good.  There is a value to dealing with a local dealer...   it's good to hear they are stepping up to the plate .. Good luck with the replacement ...  
Legacy speakers LOVE tube amps :-)

My friend has the exact same problem which is very annoying as in all other areas it is a superb amp. He uses large Zingalli speakers which are very efficient and an easy load. It goes off for no apparent reason even when not playing music at all. If it wern't for the fact that it is the best amp he has had he would dump it tomorrow. He even has the partnering CD player and it is a killer combination , very dynamic and superbly detailled but no good if you cannot tust it. I do hope Yamaha can overcome this problem.
Dhpeck 12-24-2017
6. I just unplugged my Sub now as the rca cables are a bit bent up; however it didn't affect play for 2 hours yesterday without shutting off.
By any chance have you at any time had the sub connected at speaker level? 

If so, the speaker level connection could easily account for the intermittent protective shutdowns, and possibly even damage.  As you've probably seen stated in the manual the amp has balanced outputs, meaning that there is a full amplitude signal on the negative as well as the positive output terminals.  If only one sub is being used, connecting most subs at speaker level would cause the signals on the two negative output terminals of the amp to be shorted together, and would also probably connect them to AC safety ground via some low impedance.  As you may have seen, the manual specifically cautions against doing that.

Good luck.  Regards,
-- Al
 
@almarg - I've had the sub plugged into the pre-out connection as recommended.  Were you thinking perhaps the sub was plugged into the speaker connections?
Were you thinking perhaps the sub was plugged into the speaker connections?
I was asking if you had ever done that to make sure it wasn’t the case, because if you had ever done so it could easily account for the symptoms you described. And I suspect that the Martin Logan sub you mentioned in another thread provides both speaker level and line level inputs.

Also, perhaps pointing out that connecting a sub to the speaker terminals of this amp is a no no will prevent someone else who may read this thread and has the same amp from damaging it.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al

Thanks Al got it.  I know I didn't do that.  Will wait on new unit and go from there  
Regarding Sub connections:  

"connecting a sub to the speaker terminals of this amp is a no no"

Can you run a connection from the terminals on the speaker to the sub?
My sub only has 2 RCA connectors in which I connect to the pre-out right/left on the amp
honeybee2012, I would error on the side of caution and NOT hook an active sub to the terminals of the speaker if that speaker is connected to the AS3000.  From the Yamaha AS3000 Manual:

CAUTION

Because the power amplifier of A-S3000 is of the floating balanced type, the following types of connections are not possible.

Connecting with the left channel “–” terminal and the right channel “–” terminal as well as “+” terminals (Fig. 1).

Connecting with the left channel “–” terminal and the right channel “–” terminal inverted (cross connection, Fig. 2).

Deliberately connecting with the left/right channel “–” terminals and metal part on the rear panel of this unit, as well as accidentally touching them.

Do not connect your active subwoofer to the SPEAKERS L/R CH terminal. Connect it to the PRE OUT jacks of this unit.

Do not connect a component with no volume control, such as a CD player, to the MAIN IN jacks, as the volume level of the signals input to the MAIN IN jacks is fixed. If such equipment is connected, a sound may burst, and the unit and/or speaker may be damaged.


Can you run a connection from the terminals on the speaker to the sub?
No, absolutely not. That would result in the same issues that would occur if you connected to the amp’s speaker terminals.

However what would probably work ok, depending on the specific design of the amp, would be to connect the + inputs of the sub to the + outputs of the amp, and connect either or both of the - inputs of the sub to a chassis screw on the amp. (I’m assuming here and in what follows that one sub is being used, rather than two, and that the sub provides inputs for two channels). That is what REL recommends for their subs when connecting at speaker level to an amp having balanced or bridged outputs.

I can’t envision a design for which that approach would cause damage. The worst thing that might happen, depending on the designs of the amp and the sub, would be a loud hum. But chances are it would work ok.

An even better approach would be to solder one or both negative wires from the sub to the ground shell of an RCA plug (or optionally two plugs, using one for each negative wire), leaving the center pin unconnected, and plugging it or them into an unused RCA input connector (or connectors) on the amp. In the case of the A-S3000 and other integrated amps providing "main in" connectors, it would probably be preferable to plug in there, rather than to an input intended for a source component, since that figures to provide a more direct path to the ground of the amplifier section.

In cases where the sub provides speaker level inputs for two channels I suspect it wouldn’t make any difference whether one or both negative input terminals of the sub are connected, as the two negative input terminals of subs which provide two input channels are most likely connected directly together within the sub.

Regards,
-- Al

That sucks man, especially since Yamaha makes decent motorcycles and pianos.
ha ha wolf, right?  Well it sounds amazing to my ears so hopefully new unit will work out.  If not, I'll replace with the Yamaha model that comes with two wheels....
dhpeck - If you don't mind let us know how your replacement as3000 works out for you.  Happy New Years
I had the same problem on my a-s2100.
on the back there is a little switch to turn on/off the auto standby. turn auto standby to OFF that worked for me. I never had another shut down. 
let us know if this helped out. 
happy new year! 

almarg - Your comment really got me thinking about subwoofers connected to the as3000. I knew not to connect a sub via speaker level inputs simply because of what was stated in the owners manual, but I have been considering upgrading to Martin Logan Montis speakers which have an active woofer in each speaker.  I'm not 100% sure that will work after thinking through all of this. And I won't even pretend to understand much about electrical engineering.  I emailed Yamaha but haven't heard back.  Emailed Martin Logan and they suggested the connection will be fine with the as3000.
@arch2
Your question is a good one. And as I indicate below a follow-up question with Martin-Logan will probably be necessary to be confident in their answer. But first I’ll mention that there are two things which make this situation different from connecting a powered sub to the outputs of the amp:

1)Connecting a single powered sub which provides + and - speaker level inputs for two channels to both output channels of the amp would most likely connect the amp’s negative output terminals for the two channels to the sub’s internal circuit ground, and therefore short the two negative output terminals together, potentially causing damage. That will not be an issue in the situation you are asking about, since the amp’s two channels would be connected to different speakers.

2)The suggestion I had made of connecting a sub’s negative input terminal to a chassis screw or the ground shell of an RCA input connector on the amp will not be suitable for this application because it would greatly reduce the amount of power the amp could deliver to the speaker’s electrostatic panel, which of course is not powered by the speaker’s internal amplifier.

3)The remaining concern, assuming that the speaker has a 3-prong IEC receptacle for its AC input, is whether or how it connects the negative input from the amp to AC safety ground. What I suggest that you ask Martin-Logan is as follows:

(a)Does the speaker have a 2-prong IEC connector (AC "hot" and AC neutral) or a 3-prong IEC connector (AC "hot," AC neutral, and AC safety ground)? If the answer is 2-prong, you are good to go.

(b)If the IEC connector has 3-prongs, is the speaker’s negative input terminal completely isolated from AC safety ground? If the answer is yes, you are good to go.

(c)If the answer is no, what is the impedance between the speaker’s negative input terminal and AC safety ground? If they are connected directly together, or are connected together through a low impedance (for example, 10 ohms) I don’t think it would be safe to use the Montis in conjunction with your amp. But if that impedance is high (for example, a few hundred ohms) it should be ok.

Good luck. Regards,
--Al

@almarg 
Thanks for following up Al.  I will contact Martin Logan next week.  From reviewing the owner's manual on line it appears the Montis includes a 3 prong IEC connector.  Thanks again and happy New Year.
Don
If the specs don't give an ohm rating with watt output then chances are it's going to have trouble.  Yamaha rates only at 8 ohms.  And remember that speakers are rated at NOMINAL or AVERAGE ohms.  Those speakers may dip as low as 2 ohms at times and there aren't very many integrateds that are going to handle that.  I remember a friend having this exact same issue with a Denon integrated a couple years back trying to drive Maggie 1.7's.  The thing just kept going into protection mode....sometimes an hour, sometimes 15 minutes.  You could fry an egg on it.  He swapped out for another one a same thing happened. He went to another set of drivers at 8 ohms and never had an issue.
@gkr7007,

Check your facts. Yamaha does provide ratings for lower impedances. The A-S3000 is rated at 150 watts/Ch RMS into 4 ohms. It's maximum dynamic power into 2 ohms is 300 watts/Ch. Even their budget-end, bipolar output integrateds are 2 ohm stable. For future reference, it's quite easy to access owner's manuals online. It's called Google.
Ok boys and girls, new A-S3000 unit came in and it's been playing all night without glitches.  Thank God as I didn't want to go to any other integrated.  I really enjoy what I hear as smooth, liquid, but detailed without being fatiguing.
Good news, even if I am not surprised. Enjoy the music.
Good news dhpek. Enjoy! BTW silver or black?
Thanks! for the update- dhpeck
whom is your dealer/retailer? Happy Listening!
@jafant I'm in Green Bay, WI working with HiFi Heaven.  They are outstanding to deal with.  There was no hesitation from them to take care of me on this defective unit by getting another new unit to me.  I have been upgrading over time via their trade up program.  Being in Green Bay WI they do most of their business online.  HiFiheaven.net

So far so good with this new unit!
Thank You- dhpeck.
Happy Listening!
Good news, I have dealt with HiFi Heaven.... good guys 

Enjoy
I have dealt with HiFi Heaven before and bought a Yamaha CD S2100 from them, which I'm currently not using because I have a Audio Research CD player.  They are great to deal with and I'm glad your unit is now working properly.
@arch2  @dhpeck 

and any other as3000 - how hot does your amp get? I've just bought a brand new one on Friday , sounds great but after 4 hrs the top plate is that hot I can't rest my hand. It not instant pull hand away but the heat is such I can't leave my hand there. 

Being a a reasobable size powered amp, I would expect it to get warm and indeed speaking on line to a couple of other owners here in Australia, they say theirs gets warm, mine is way beyond warm. 

Thanks dave 
Dave,

Unless you're using very demanding speakers, I wouldn't be surprised if your amp's bias has drifted, possibly due to shipping. The first A-S1100 I had in my possession ran very hot, my current one barely gets warm after a couple hours. My room remains around 65°F this time of year.

When I asked the local Yamaha tech about the difference, he said all Yamahas should run warm, not hot. However, I can't say whether he has experience with the 3000, that may be a different beast. 
@helomech thank you for your response, my speakers are dynaudio confidence 5, listen so far has been done with volume at 9 to 10 o'clock. .

with music it got  dry hot, yesterday I just turned it on . No music same result very hot . 



Dave,

That’s what occurred with the first example (A-S1100) I had in my system, however, it sounded and functioned just fine. I only returned it to try another amp. Ultimately, the Yamaha sound beckoned and I bought another. This one runs warm above the capacitor bank, but only after a good hour or more.

Maybe the 3000 is biased into class A some, even though it’s not advertised as such. That wouldn’t surprise me either and might account for the heat.
Dave,
The top plate of my AS300 will be warm but never really beyond that. All the speakers I have used with it have been fairly easy loads in the 6 to 8 ohm range and 88 to 91 db efficient.
Don
@helomech @arch2 

thanks guys, my dynaudio are I think 86db and I think a 4 ohm. But heat seems about the same , if the amp got warm under load unstanderable, but twice now I’ve let it sit and not play any music. And still gets very hot. 

Regards dave
Hi guys,

dealer came over this afternoon ,agreed that amp is too hot and is going to get another one in asap.

Fingers crossed

 cheers dave
sounds like a good dealer.  Good luck, I was worried when mine had issues as I didn't want to go a different direction.  My new one is flawless and emits beautiful sound.
Hi guys,

long time between visits, so an update.

The  first amp went back as warranty claim and I received a second amp which ran very hot so back to the dealer.

He arranged for the first amp to be checked by Yamaha Australia and it was discovered the biasing was out. So the second amp was checked locally by technicians and yep biasing was out. Biasing redone and now the amp runs cool to warm . And sounds great.

annoying that you have to mess around abit after spending this sort of money, happy because it’s running sweet now