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This has been driving me nuts over the last week. I'm trying to decide whether to get the Clearaudio Statement, Clearaudio Quadro, or the Stillpoint record clamp. Have had them around for auditioning, and I find the stillpoint the least appealing sound wise on my system. It seems to just damp the sound down, don't know how to describe it, but I think my preference is for the lighter weight, clear Audio Quadro. It weighs in at 270g, while the Stillpoint is about 660g, and the Statement 760g. I suspect each system is different, and if you can, audition it on your turntable before you buy. The differences are subtle. The statement looks awesome, has had the appropriate rave reviews,( commensurate with the price), but I can't hear the value.
Jyoungpark, I have heard the StillPoint clamp audition on and off a large range of turntables at various shows one time while touring with Paul Wakeen. I have yet to hear a turntable that wasn't benefited. Personally, I have used it on my Bergmann SIndre tt with great benefit, although the screw on clamp that comes with it is quite good.
I know some who are using multiples of it on component and speaker tops for vibration absorption. I have tried it to some degree in such an application with little benefit, but I should say that all of my equipment is one StillPoints Racks or Component stands. Maybe there is little left to absorb.
I was using the LPI on my Technics SP10. The difference it made compared to my TTW weights was not subtle. It brought a level of clarity to playback that was prevously missing. It's expensive, but IMHO, worth the investment.
I say "was" above, because I recently replaced the standard SP10 platter with a newly developed copper/gunmetal unit from Artisan Fidelity. With the new platter, the LPI did not contribute anything over my Kuzma Strobi or standard Artisan Fidelity weight.
Catastrofe, I presume the new platter was a substantial improvement. Copper and gunmetal; sounds interesting.
I once had a Finial Audio solid copper string driven tt. I weighed 285 pounds! At that time it cost me about $11,000. Now, with the price of copper, I can just imagine.
The weight was my problem. I couldn't trust most racks that were available then.
Franks, I am presently assessing the benefits of Hitachi FineMet beads on pigtails that you can use on your power cords. FineMet is much like ferrite beads but much more effective perhaps because of its bandwidth. For whatever reason, these give a dramatic improvement. I'm going to use them in an Exemplar modified Oppo 105. I am also seeing it a Monarchy regenerator driving a Nantais modified Lenco L78 and set to 110 volts, which was the US voltage at the time when Lenco was popular, sounds better. It clearly does.
In short, I am buried in tweak trials. There is magic to be found in music reproduction, but it is not easy to find it. Vibrations are the principle culprit.
Geoffkait, you can see the Hitachi FineMet webpage easily, but buying them is hit or miss now. I think they are basically made for the military. But you can find them on Ebay occasionally.
There is the promise soon of access to some of the many sizes through a Japanese company. Right now, this company is focusing on manufacturers. I now have pigtails using two sizes for use with powercords. One has only a 1.7 mm inside diameter and the other is about 5/8 inch. The gauge of wire that can be used with the small ones means these power cords probably shouldn't be used on amplifiers.
Hullo, I realize this is an old thread, but perhaps someone still looks at it and can help me. I just read in Roy Gregory's review that the Stillpoints LPI may be too heavy(?) for my Linn LP12's suspended deck. Does that mean I should not use it there? Any info on this would be much appreciated.
I know you all really know what the Stillpoints LP I is/does. Still (hah,hah), I think calling it a record weight doesn't describe this item accurately. It is really a device that provides a way for resonance to flow out of the lp/platter, reducing that to heat, instead of driving them back into the platter/bearing. (This is an important distinction!) It does weigh around one pound, so in this sense it is a weight.
FWIW, here's my personal results using the Stillpoints LP I.
Increase in transparency would be the best one-word term to describe it in my system. This has an effect on everything.
Increase in micro/macro detail
Increase in resolution
Transient response is even quicker/sharper/snappier
Bass info is more delineated, less confused,
Music sounds clearer/cleaner
I would imagine each persons unique system/set-up will react differently. These are my findings, all positive.
common, I have owned the Stillpoints record weight for well over a year. It' is well made and looks very cool. But common, let's not make it more then it is. It is a very cool record weight. No more. The idea that it transforms your TT set up in to some magical mythical transducer is just that, a mythical fantasy. An illusion. It keeps the vinyl tighter and flatter to the platter. Some like that and others feel it take the life out of a record. I enjoy it both ways. Some times with and some times without. But it always looks great.
Pkoegz: I can only try to express what I hear in my system. It replaces my original two-piece BDR(clamp). That (clamp) kept the vinyl tighter/flatter to the platter. If I didn't have positive results with it, I'd sell it and buy some lps. The fact is, I enjoy my lps much more now in the ways I described.
$550.00 is a large investment for the minimal improvement over other options.
There is a best of 5-10% reduction in vibration vs. an outer record clamp pure fact. The ring couples 100 times the surface area directly on the outer edge - around the record vs. a small locating diameter in the center of the record LABEL - center clamp or weight.
We shipped many center weights (6000 and counting)and we are the leader in center weight production and our best pure copper center weight - Yes Pure expensive copper 3.2 Lbs and sounds amazing.
We build a killer 2.2 lb stainless carbon fibre that will equal the stillpoints product for under $250.00 - and a 1 lb for $89.00 more reasonable and the Classic has been on the market since 2008 and is very effective and is the most common center weight out there today...
Buy an outer record clamp for a few dollars more and get 10 times the results of ANY center clamp/weight period.
We will post actual test measurements shortly!
Assuming that you buy into the Stillpoints "technology," the LPI operates differently from other weights and clamps. The idea is that its five pyramidal bearing pockets convert vibration into mechanical energy dissipated as the heat of friction between the bearings. With this approach it should be possible to drain vibration without resorting to higher mass. I use it and like it.
At an audio show I experienced a demo in which an LPI was placed on top of the switching power supply of a headphone amp. After a few seconds background noise fell off and the presentation gained clarity. When the LPI was turned upside down (decoupling the bearing pockets from the interface) there was a lesser improvement.
Dgarretson, what one has with the Stillpoint technology is ceramic balls sitting on three same size ceramic balls that are spread just far enough apart to not allow the one on top falling through. This makes the vector of vertical vibrations almost entirely horizontal but this is restrained by a stainless ring, meaning it is turned into heat.
It's an interesting approach with the primary function of draining vibration from the spindle bearing area, and the secondary function of clamping the record to the platter. A heavier weight or clamp might be more effective at the latter, while less so at the former. A peripheral ring is probably better at clamping then any clamp, with the further advantage of increased flywheel effect contributing to speed stability. Maybe the best of all possible worlds is LPI for vibration in combination with peripheral ring for impedance matching and speed stability.
I use a Harmonic Resolutions Systems ADH record weight and the improvement vs. the standard VPI delrin clamp is beyond dramatic. There may be "better" (in a given system) clamps/weights out there for more money, but I doubt you can buy a better record weight for $400, which is what the ADH costs.
Btw, I use the ADH with the VPI periphery ring.
Here's the difference I heard on my Kuzma XL (with Airline arm), compared to the factory screw down clamp which is also heavier than the Stillpoints:
not as loud, not as prominent a bump in the upper bass which tended to give music explosive power and propulsive thrust; more relaxed but less apparent bass b/c of that 'bump' mentioned above (which may be due in part to the table and set-up; if you are familiar with the table, it is a heavweight, and I have a oversize HRS platform beneath it, all sitting on a massisve old mahogany prayer table which weighs hundreds of pounds, with extremely thick chunks of sorbothane underneath the table legs (which are really 'panels,' not individual legs), to isolate the whole assemblage from footfalls (the room is at the top of the house with wooden floors).
I found that I needed to readjust the woofer gain and cross-over settings slightly to give me 'more bass' relative to the horn mids (not much latitude to change speaker position to compensate for change made by the clamp/weight). I also had to crank up the gain a bit, not a big deal.
There is more ease, less apparent punch but I think that 'punch' is a coloration; I bought the thing when it came out and have used it ever since (after doing repeated comparisons with the factory clamp).
My take: this is something that you do after all else on the table has been sorted. Not sure if the difference I heard is more pronounced given my set-up and system (which is shown in my system pics here), but there it is.
I'm a big believer in the Durand Record Weight which to my ears betters not only any other record clamp or weight I've heard but also vacuum hold-down too based on my experience.
of course; I've not heard everything out there, YMMV and all that stuff.
Some interesting information on resonance control of the Stylus (often ignored)and the human hearing and brain interaction, go to the link on our site:
Note regarding center bearing damping - noisy table - heavy weight - no clamp - plus outer ring
Ttweights: You aren't considering potential customers like myself who use an ET arm. (Why are we the forgotten ones?) There is a compatibility issue regarding having the clearance for the products you offer as well as other issues.
I will reiterate that one clamp/weight isn't necessarily the best for all situations.
As Dgarretson wrote: "I use it and I like it".
I see that comment as a logical end to this discussion. It does require a significant investment in order to find out for yourself. If you are in to vinyl in a serious way, and after evaluating your system's needs, if you conclude that a device of this sort will possibly be of benefit, you need to experience one for yourself.
I have a Brinkmann La Grange turntable that has its own screw-on clamp. I auditioned the Stillpoint weight and instantly heard a considerably tighter and deeper bass - so it was a no brainer- like night and day.
Another benefit is not having to faff about screwing clamp down and getting into problems with over tightening etc - although that's just a side issue. Sonically the Stillpoint massively improved my Brinkmann.
Slaw: We have attempted smaller diameter outer ring but the machining borderlines on impossible, we used to make a small diameter ring but had to stop production. We made more bad ones than good ones.
cool video of the stylus in a groove:
Consider the stylus and an outer ring simply works and makes sense.
Wow! I was listening to the 1st pressing of Jimmy Page/Robert Plant "No Quarter", (which is an excellent sounding lp), and since it was in need of flattening, I put the Stillpoints LP isolator onto the top of my McCormack DNA 225 (Platinum) that is sitting inside (on the bottom shelf) of a Solidsteel 5.2 rack, the amp's shelf, which is a BDR, "shelf-for-the source" platform that is itself, sitting on three original Stillpoints isolators, the amp is isolated more by Symposium Rollerblock Jrs. w/ ceramic ball upgrade. Whew!
Now, while the lp was playing, and the lp isolator was not in use, I put it on top of the amp and, WOW!, the dynamics were much improved, it almost seemed as if the volume was increased, I feel that so much hash was removed that I was hearing what is really on this lp!
I have spent a lot of time with various record weights. My finding is the same as yours having nothing to do with materials used or brand. I have found that weights in general shift the frequency band down a bit. So weights tend to dull the upper frequencies and accentuate the mids and low frequency bands. They also give you sharper images and cleaner leading edges. That's the good side. The bad is that they narrow the soundstage. I have settled on no weight and I'm not alone if you research the subject on the "What's Best Forum." Another idea is to try the Oyaide Record weight. It comes in two weight classes and they are adjustable giving you the option of listening to the best weight. They are a bit funky looking but they work really well. One other idea is to buy the Oyaide rubber mat which is only $100 and will increase your fidelity greatly.
I completely agree with Slaw, every set up and every clamp sounds different and there is no way to guarantee one design will be best for every situation.
I have seven weights / clamps designs that are different sound, including a Stillpoints LPI for my turntable.
I two extra Stillpoints LPI that were to serve as isolation under my Focal Grande EM power supplies (at suggestion of Stillpoints).
I preferred Stillpoints Ultra Mini in that spot so like TBG (Norm) I need to sell a couple.
I will second Slaw's discovery about the LPI working very well as a weight for amps, in my case an integrated VAC amp - VAC 160iSE. I find these work very effectively in drawing off resonance if placed near the preamp section of my integrated. I originally got it for my TT but then learned my Linn LP12 is not well suited to these heavy weights. Serendipitously and accidentally I discovered they are very useful in the way described.