Dynaudio C1, why so expensive?


Any explanation for the price on these? They are, after all, a 2 way monitor.
rja
There are several 2-way monitors that cost a lot more than the $7000.00 Dynaudio C1.My answer to your question (strictly my opinion,nothing more) is...because Dynaudio thinks they are worth it and they feel pretty confident that some folks will pay that amount.If they didn't believe these two things then they would have a different price.
They're very good speakers. But IMO my speakers, the Harmonic Precision Caravelles, the source of many heated Audiogon forums posts, are better. I've personally compared them a number of times at different dealers when I was auditioning other components. They're close but for the better sound of the Caravelles and $2000.00 less price tag, well!

Right now there are two pairs on Audiogon at a ridicuously cheap price because they're not well known: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1289810264&/Star-Sound-Caravelles-with-sta and http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1287685938&/Star-Sound-Technology-Caravell. The pair for $2100.00 has the better stands than the pair for $1500.00, but either pair is a steal.

Chuck
Richard,

I don't know if you asked this question about the C1's because you are curious about the price or looking for new speakers.

After I heard the Caravelles over a number of months five years ago, I sold my B&W Silver Signatures and bought them. The Silver Signatures were $8000.00 when they came out in 1991, so if you're wondering about expensive and really good monitors, here's another. But I sold them and bought the Caravelles, the Caravelles are better in my system.

Here's the 6Moons reviev/preview of the Caravelle speakers: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/starsound/caravelle.html

Chuck
They cost more than Merlin tsms or Totem Manis.

They cost way less than Magico minis.

They are expensive or a bargain depending on your perspective.

Most new speakers have huge profit margins compared to electronics usually. You can't judge the value based on what it really costs to make them.
You get what you pay for. I own C1's and the build quality is first rate. Made with real wood veneer on HDF. Machined 1 piece aluminum isolation baffle. They are designed and manufactured at Dynaudio. The binding posts - screws and internal wiring are the only things outsourced. In my opinion I would have to spend a lot more to maybe just maybe get a better sound. Also IMO the C1's are one of the most transparent monitors around (among imaging - sound stage and depth).

That all being said Dynaudio may not be for everyone. But for me it is a speaker I can NOT see replacing. I wouldn't even let my Dyn dealer demo anything less (ie Contour s1.4's - 1.3mkII or special 25's) only because I don't want to think at a later time 'What if I spent the extra bucks back then would I be looking to replace them today'. Did that too many times trying to price justify. Since then I have heard the lower lines from the audience and excite series. Personally I think all Dynaudios line up is worth the money. Then there is always used. In the end I always spent more than just getting them to begin with.

Again that's my opinion.
OP: Why do C1s cost so much?
Krell: My speakers, which are not C1s, are awesome.

Very useful.
I owned some expensive Dynaudio speakers and I do not think they were worth the Money. While they did sound great, they were not able to reproduce music at louder volume levels in my 13x28' room. I quickly sold them and purchased a pair of Aerial LR5's and they suit my taste, room and musical preference much better. I like loud Rock, pop and Jazz. I also think the Aerials are a lot more speaker for the money. I also own a pair of Aerial 9's and I think they are quite a bit better than some of the speakers I have hear at twice their cost.
I'm not questioning their quality or performance. I know they're very popular with many people and I'm certainly not criticizing anyone who owns them. If fact, I'm not even questioning whether they're worth their price.
But for some reason I found myself wondering "why" they cost $7000.
Matro5,

I was trying to be helpful. My second post was asking what Richard was wanting to know. Was he questioning the price because $7000.00 is expensive or because he was looking for another speaker.

Dynaudio speakers are very, very good speakers. I personally wouldn't have a problem buying the C1s myself. I like the Dynaudio sound, I also like the sound of the B&W Silver Signatures. The Caravelles have the same sound, these are not warm colored or cool colored speakers, all three are very precise and neutral.

If you've looked at my system and my past systems, you've seen that I've been around a lot of high end systems for a lot of years. I was simply giving Richard, since we've talked before, an alternative, excellent speaker that lists for $5000.00, expensive too, but are here on Audiogon at a steal.

If you have a problem with that, not knowing that Richard and I have talked a few times in the past, I'm sorry.

Why don't you share your knowledge of what makes up the $7000.00 price of the C1? You may know marketing reasons for the price that most people do not. Who really knows why a company prices their products the way they do. It may be justified in the R&D and parts or it may be the companies reputation and expectations about what they can bring in for a product.

By the way, if anyone wants a Dynaudio Sapphire at dealer cost, brand new, but cosmetically damaged so that it's probably not resellable, I can hook them up.

Chuck
Listen to them properly set up compared to others at a similar or lesser price point and see what you think.

You are paying for two things: good looks and build quality and top notch sound in a small package.

I heard $5500/pair Totem Mani's recently and thought the same thing, but if you like the sound, then these pricey monitors are probably worth it. They can be very good when set up properly. Their limitations are dynamics at high volumes compared to larger designs and absolute low end extension. Many can live quite happily without these two things. They do what they do perhaps as well as most anything.
I'm just glad they didn't cost me as much as the Magico Mini II's at 32,000 or even Tidal starting at 18,000.

Krell_man
I've personally compared them a number of times at different dealers when I was auditioning other components.
Hi Chuck. Did you compare those to the C1's? What was better?
George
They use their own high quality drivers...not cheap mass produced stuff like most others...

The quality of Dynaudio drivers can only be appreciated by listening or by opening the box and seeing the relatively large and expensive drive motors...
George,

Yes, I'm always on the lookout for something better, but as much as I liked the C1's, my Caravelle's were better to me.

Just as I wouldn't sell my B&W Silver Signature's for the B&W 802D's, but I sold them for the Caravelle's.

Chuck
The Focal Utopia Diablo's retail for something like $12,000 without the stands. They are just a two way speaker design. Great sounding speaker, but I guess they should be.
09-16-10: Xti16
You get what you pay for. I own C1's and the build quality is first rate. Made with real wood veneer on HDF. Machined 1 piece aluminum isolation baffle. They are designed and manufactured at Dynaudio.
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The baffle is not aluminum, it is some kind of composite wood material.
Richard, any plans on heading down to Sound Hounds again? I'll be there again and this time bringing home a pair of Focus 220 mkII to demo.
Thanks for the reply Chuck. Until now I never heard of the Caravelles. BTW my Bryston is gone and just replaced it with the Octave V70se. What an improvement!!
Bigbucks5
The baffle is not aluminum, it is some kind of composite wood material.
I meant the piece that that the drivers are mounted to. It's a 6.9" driver mounted to a 5" wide cabinet. I don't they are pretty but it sure sounds fantastic. The looks had to grow on me.
09-17-10: Xti16
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I meant the piece that that the drivers are mounted to. It's a 6.9" driver mounted to a 5" wide cabinet. I don't they are pretty but it sure sounds fantastic. The looks had to grow on me.
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Right, that's the baffle and it isn't aluminum. It is machined from a sheet of composite wood material. I don't know where you got the idea that it is aluminum
I have the speakers and it is aluminum.
> I don't know where you got the idea that it is aluminum

Bigbucks, where did you get the idea that is was not?

Even the baffle on my lowly Contour 3.4s is aluminum (or some aluminum alloy), so I am sure that Xti16 is correct.
Doesn't aluminum ring like a bell?

Sorry, I couldn't resist saying that for some reason. Whether it is or not and does or not, the Dynaudio engineers typically know what they are doing based on my experience.

International exchange rates might help explain high cost of Dynaudio speakers in the US. Most european made products seem to go for a premium here these days.

I have more difficulty understanding the cost of Canadian made Totem speakers these days. They mostly all sound really good and have very good build quality it seems but the price tags are surprising when you look especially after noting their generally compact size. Then again, good sound in a compact package has value.

PSBs might be a better value overall. You appear to get more for the money at least in terms of size. Not sure though. I'd have to listen to these top notch contenders back to back in order to say.
The baffle is a mdf layer sandwhich. The drivers are mounted in an aluminum plate that is mounted in the baffle.
09-17-10: Xti16
I have the speakers and it is aluminum.
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09-17-10: Steidlguitars
Even the baffle on my lowly Contour 3.4s is aluminum (or some aluminum alloy), so I am sure that Xti16 is correct.
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You are both incorrect. The baffle is composite wood. The tweeter is mounted to an aluminum plate which fits into a machined recess in the baffle. But the baffle is NOT aluminum. And I know, becasue I had C4s, C2s and C1s and the baffles use all the same construction technique.

From the Dynaudio Confidence catalog:

"The multiple-layer high-density baffle yields extremely low-resonance and de-couples the loudspeaker drivers from the cabinet itself. Despite the slim dimensions of the cabinet, this innovative design concept allows for the integration of substantially larger bass driver than otherwise would be possible."

And I have a video of Confidence baffles being machined, and there's nary an aluminum chip to be seen...
Here's a photo showing the C1 wood baffle, the aluminum plate with tweeter mounted, and the mid/bass driver:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18533537#post18533537

And one of the similarly constructed C2:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18537641#post18537641
Not looking for an argument, but I don't think we're wrong.

I suspect that in your quote the "multiple-layer high-density baffle" is the aluminum plate mounted on the front of these speakers.

Here's the first definition of "speaker baffle" that pops up on google:

A baffle is the surface or structure on which the speakers or drivers are mounted. Its purpose is to prevent the front and rear sound waves from interfering with each other and causing cancellation. A speaker baffle can be made of wood, metal or other materials.

On the Contour and from photos, the C1, the tweeter and the mid-woofers are mounted to aluminum plate, which is what I think is technically the baffle. Yes, there is a MDF box behind it.

Have a good weekend.
We have to remember that dynaudio is made in Denmark where working power is quite expensive.
09-18-10: Steidlguitars
On the Contour and from photos, the C1, the tweeter and the mid-woofers are mounted to aluminum plate, which is what I think is technically the baffle. Yes, there is a MDF box behind it.
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The tweeter is mounted to an aluminum plate...that is not the baffle.

The plate is then mounted into the baffle, which is the dark gray piece which is not aluminum but a multi-layered piece of wood composite

The mid-woofer basket is not mounted to an aluminum plate, it is bolted into the wood baffle.

And yea, there is an MDF cabinet behind the baffle into which the rear of the drivers project.

Just to be clear...

The baffle is the dark gray piece, and it is not aluminum.
One last try. If this doesn't convince you that Confidence baffles (all series) are made of a wood composite, and not out of aluminum, I surrender.

Watch specifically between 2:55 and 4:00 minutes into the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVPGx3lsg5A
Sorry, forgot to add, look between 4:25 and 4:50 of the video.
I want my own CNC machine!

Bigbucks, thanks for sending that link. You're absolutely right, that baffle ain't aluminum! I assumed from photos (note caveat in my earlier post, gulp) that the dark gray portion of the baffle on the C1 was made from aluminum. Wrong.

For what it's worth, the baffle on my Contours is indeed aluminum, so I assumed that continued up the line. Wrong again.

So now I wonder about Xti16's original comment, seeing as he owns them.

Anyway, thanks for being a good sport.
Bottom line is Dynaudio is a very high quality and high performance line. Neither the cheapest nor most expensive, but perhaps one of the most reliable and rock solid from a quality perspective. The Dynaudio sound is very no nonsense, just rock solid as well. You can't go wrong building a system around Dynaudio speakers IMHO.

Yes, being made in Denmark surely increases the cost almost for certain, but hey, good things do not come cheap.
in my opipion,these baffles is being made for simple reasons such as aesthetics , to stand out from other speakers and in order to avoid cases of counterfeiting
I've auditioned the C1 (and the Sapphire). The price of the *tiny* C1 is certainly arresting, but as others have noted, hard to say what is "fair."

What does seem easy to say is that at 7k, one has a *lot* of options besides small 2 ways. (Perhaps especially among smaller American companies.) To pick just one, I'd say anyone auditioning the C1s ought to audition the new Gallo Ref 3.5s @ 6.5k retail (also a pretty small speaker). No knock on the C1s -- lots of people more knowledgeable than me rave about them -- but I'd be a little surprised if everyone who made this comparison choose the C1s. John
High labor and material costs in Denmark, shipping costs AND A WEAK DOLLAR all conspire to raise costs. You cannot underestimate currency effect as foreign mfr pays a certain amount for materials and components and if it sells speakers in US, has to bear currency risk for when finished product is actually sold and they are paid in dollars.

Neal
The Baffle of the Contour series is not aluminum it is a powder coated steel, which is the reason why the grill magnets stick to it. The baffles of both the Confidence and Contour have a very similar end goal and that is to reduce the excess driver energy from reaching the cabinet, both are mechanically decoupled from the cabinet with a 1/4" layer of a neoprene type material. Aluminum is used in the trim ring of the tweeters for heat dissipation especially with the Esotar 2 tweeters using Neodymium magnets, and it is a very inert material when machined.

Why is a Breitling watch so expensive? Hand made in Switzerland using only the highest quality materials by Swiss craftsmen,you get what you pay for. Dynaudio speakers are handmade in Denmark by Danish craftsmen using only the highest quality parts available. Drivers and crossovers are made by Dynaudio for the specific application, parameters and performance for the $. Quality and technology are maximized for the price points, no extra fluff in the margin. Conspiracy theorists would like you to believe manufacturers have loads of extra margin built into high end audio products and this just isn't true. Listen to the C-1 next to ANY bookshelf speaker regardless of price and make your decision.
Bigbucks5
You are 100% correct regarding the baffle. I had that confirmed by Dynaudio. I lost my video and from I remembered I though it was aluminum. I'll stop relying on my memory in the future.