I tried to find these PADIS fuses and they have been discontinued, along with the Furutech’s which they manufactured.
The only cheap audiophile fuses seem to be all this Aliexpress stuff. Who knows what they are like - Aucharm, Gustard e.t.c
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I just got done testing the $30 Padis fuse versus the SR Blue at $150. I definitely heard a performance upgrade in overall sound quality with the PADIS fuse compared to my stock fuse. When I tested the SR Blue I did not hear any more improvement. For $30, the Padis fuse is a great deal especially if you need 6 of them. |
@gbmcleod - Sorry, I didn't see your new post until today (so thanks Todd for posting!). Thanks also for the feedback on the Furutech combination. What are the other fuses in your NAD? Also, I am very interested in a comparison with the BLUE fuses once you get them. I just received my 2A PADIS fuse and am just beginning the burn in. It's only the second hour of burn in, but my VERY initial thoughts is that the PADIS seems to be somewhat dryer sounding than the Furutech. The PADIS does not have the typical "cold / wet / chimey" tones that fresh rhodium plated Furutech components generally have. I don't know, maybe it's not as thick of a rhodium plating as the Furutech specification (I know Furutech likes to have a thick plating on their components). In any event, I absolutely know that fresh items will play tricks on you and I'm sure this will change significantly over the next 200 hours. I'll have to wait about 10 days before I post an "official" statement, which I will do in a new thread subject. |
Hi Aux. First of all, the Furutechs have plenty of time on them. I typically leave a component running for 3 weeks with signal going thru them. In other words, 500 hours... Now, for the foot-in-mouth apology. I came across the Furutech fuse (I had four, but packed up all but one and the others are in a drawer somewhere else) and decided, after staring at it harshly, but them remembering your convictions, thought, "It’s not very scientific to not test it out again. He might be right." - as well as that, add in the fact that I have refined my already (very) refined setup by adding the Townshend Audio Seismic Isolation Platform and the Townshend Isolation pods under the NAD. And separated the positive and negative leads of the Shunyata Cobra speaker cables from even touching even slightly at the NAD’s amp end. I have found even tiny differences like this - although one would think they shouldn’t matter - DO. Whatever it was that did the trick, it happened AFTER the separation of the lead, and THEn the re-insertion of the Furutech into the lead position on the NAD. And then I replayed the entire "What’s New" album by Linda Ronstadt, which is a very well-recorded album, and one I’ve been listening two for the past two days. The difference in the delicacy of her voice (the pure emotional feeling) came across quite noticeably. The intake of breath demonstrates a continuity throughout all the cuts, not something that happens on one phrase, in one song, but not the next one. It is consistent from song to song. Yes, the soundstage is more transparent - and the ambience is, again, noticeably better, but I couldn’t have cared less about that: the vibrato in Ronstadt’s voice is considerably better, which makes the song more intensely "feeling" and captivating in the most musical sense. In other ones, without consciously trying to turn off the critical faculties and just let the emotions wash over you, it happens by itself, and the music takes you away. Also, the timing of her phrasing is simply lovely, where only hours before I put it (the Furutech) in the system, I enjoyed it, but not nearly to the same degree. It is clearly the insertion of the fuse: the harmonic overtones are beyond what would happen by separating the leads (something I’ve done before and besides, I played it after the separation and then put the fuse in, went off to my 50th class reunion and came back - 5 hours later) and played it. Not even close to the same sound. I listened directly after putting the Furutech in and was put off by a recession in Ronstadt’s vocals. When I returned home 6 hours later, the vocals sounded as though she moved closer to the microphone and aspirants are "pushing" out towards the microphone. Which results in her voice having more "power" in the emotional sense. It’s really strikingly improved. So, using one Furutech on the NAD was superior to using 4 of them (which is what you had stated at one point). Therefore, you were right, and I am (happily) wrong. The re-evaluation (with a much superior isolation system) shows out the Furutech as better than I had thought. So, thanks. I don’t think this would have happened without the better isolation capabilities the system now has, but that’s moot. The Furutechs will sound better as one’s room acoustics, electrical quality and isolation improve. I’m really glad you persisted. Thanks again. |
@gbmcleod - out of curiosity, how many hours do you have on your Furutech fuse? The rhodium will take 200-250 hours to burn in fully. There are several very painful points during burn, some being very very bright and harsh. If you don't have 200+ hours, is there a spare piece of equipment you could put the fuse into? Just turn that device on and let it sit for 10 days straight (24 hours a day). I haven't picked up the fuse testing again. I have so many items on my list of projects, the first is to replace all switching power supplies in my system (which I have discovered are a major problem!). I did test the RED fuse and was not really impressed. I haven't tested BLACK/BLUE, and will probably not test these anytime soon. |
auxinput - thanks, in return, for your post. I like the exchange of ideas. It is so much more pleasant to discuss and agree - or disagree - politely, than some of the name calling that happens in so many other forums (and it seems, even in this one sometimes. On Facebook, there is a group for audiophiles on the cheap, and I volunteered that a record clamp would help keep the cartridge from doing the rhumba on records by...well, clamping them down securely. And got a snotty response simply because I’d worked - and written for - several magazines). It is much more civil here, even when the inevitable malcontent announces that a fuse or speaker or Shakti Stone "can’t POSSIBLY do THAT!" Quite by accident, I discovered, a week ago, hiding in plain sight - in the Bermuda Triangle that is my listening room - a Furutech fuse, and looked at it the way a society doyenne assesses a social climber: "Hmmm...what use could I make of you?" Unfortunately, the Furutech once again went on the lam into the Bermuda Triangle of my room, although I’ve no doubt I can find it more easily, now that I know I didn't throw them out! (I almost never do, but am non-plussed at how hard it is to find them when I want them again. I'd swear I put them somewhere "safe," but if they were children, I'd be arrested for losing them. And Jailed. For Decades, even. So, thank God that the little fuses cannot get me incarcerated. On another thread I posted on tonight, Synergistic Research had announced the released of a new line of fuses, the "BLUE," which, they assert, will leave the Black in the dust, but, we’re assured, the Black is as good as it ever was. And I believe that. However, since Synergistic always offers a 30-day return guarantee, I could not resist being Blue for a while, and have ordered 3 of the Blues, which I will put into my NAD C3325BEE. The NAD seems to resist fuses’ effects - positively, I mean. The Furutechs positively bleached out the lovely tone that the NAD has (and it truly - for an inexpensive integrated - has a lovely tonal quality. That designer knew what he was doing!) So, now I am going to see if an upgrade - that costs as much as the NAD did when new - can entice it into another level of performance. It has always lacked resolution in the highs and is only fair-good with ambience retrieval, so it is a good candidate for home...I mean, audio, improvement. We shall see! I enjoy these exchanges. Thank you. And I’m sorry that I forgot to acknowledge where you pointed out that you were speculating. I am not an engineer. It is a wonder I haven’t electrocuted myself, changing outlets by myself and occasionally soldering circuits. I trust your superior knowledge. I can only tell by ear (which I DO trust), how close the music comes to how realistic it sounds in my favorite venues: Carnegie Hall, The Met, and David Geffen (formerly Avery Fisher) as well as the Bushnell Theatre in Hartford, CT and the Palace in Stamford, CT. And, of course, Boston Symphony Hall, which I haven’t been in in years. Would that components were as easy to pin down as the character of symphony halls! |
@gbmcleod - thanks for your post. They are all definitely good points. One thing I wanted to call out is that I did not specifically state that "power supply" would be the flaw in all instances. I just put that out as an example, because the power supply can definitely be somewhat undersized in a piece of equipment (my own humble opinion). Other points could be different things: such as no Class A waveform smoothing in an audio chain, silver or silver-plated wire, poor quality electrolytic capacitors, etc. etc. And like I said in a previous post, putting all rhodium fuses in everything can definitely tilt that accuracy towards being to lean or thin. I stated that in detail earlier in this thread where I explained how I had to back off the "all rhodium" fuse and use "one Furutech rhodium + one Isoclean gold" in my Emotiva amps. It can definitely be a situation of "subtractive vs additive" factor in place. It's a fine line, but too much "subtractive" or "gold" can mean that you just don't have enough detail for your taste. Like I have said many times, I love rhodium elements, but they are always a double-edge sword. |
@gbmcleod Like @davidpritchard , thank you for your input into this unnecessarily contentious discussion on fuses. Your last paragraph pretty much sums it up re: we are the ones now tasked with getting our hands dirty in order to further gains and insights that others can use to further their enjoyment. The boors should move on, unless there is some perverse enjoyment in their wailing and rending of cloth that can be had. As for the use of rhodium in my PADIS fuses, I find them remarkably balanced and not at all lean in the midrange. Different systems will get different results. All the best, Nonoise |
gbmcleod: Thank you for your very detailed and well conveyed message on the sonic effects of rhodium. In a few short paragraphs you also have described the sonic flavor of Furutech and Nordost. You are doing important work in describing the sonic effects so other audiophiles can better decide whether these products will improve their systems. David Pritchard |
Auxinput: I don't disagree that the Furutechs are "transparent." However, they achieve that by "leaning out" the power range of music. And my system was assembled with several different components in each section: I have 5 speaker systems, two preamps, (CJ and Convergent), Nordost and MIT interconnects, Shunyata power cords of different vintages (NONE of which would be lean, save the current line, which I find does not have the bass weight and power of previous generations, and I have gone through the entire Zi-Tron range: Vipers, to Cobra, to Python to Alphas (analog, digital and hi-current) all the way up to the top of the line (I forget its name), the $2495 cord. ASL amps (3: Hurricanes monos (not remotely lean. In fact, the best mid bass of any amps I've had and I've had plenty of the 'big boys') an ASL integrated, Arcam and NAD integrated, Simaudio and several other integrateds, including Hegel, Parasound and Rogue. Furutech has always had a "lightening" effect in the music, something my old mentor, HP, noted in one of his reviews when he was comparing Furutech to Nordost back in some issue in 2010 or 2011. He found the same thing. And he was well aware of power supply issues. And he and I found the same thing. So, transparency sometimes comes at the cost not of an imbalance elsewhere in the system, but because of a leanness in the component (fuses included). Nordost had this very problem until their second generation (meaning, 2nd generation Frey, Try, and Valhalla, and I had ALL of them), wherein they improved in the lower midrange and upper bass. It's not always a matter of 'balancing' the system: sometimes it comes from not recognizing (until years later) that a component had something - not so serious as a 'flaw' but just, perhaps, a 'subtractive' or 'additive' quality so slight, it was easy to miss. I've tried the Furutechs in every component in my system and, based on the fact that they released the NCF line outlets a few years after the GTX-D line, they, too, realized what was missing, because it is EASY to hear the difference between the two (again, I had both, and if you read prior posts, you'll see I sold my Rhodium to someone who posted on this thread). Quite a few posters on the 'Whats Best' forum came to the exact same conclusion, and their equipment was FAR superior to mine (although I don't know that their ears are). This is why HP used the Gold instead of the Rhodium: a certain kind of "accuracy" at the expense of both sweetness and musicality. I don't make statements until I've thoroughly tested something repeatedly. And having had Hi Fi Supremes, Synergistic originals, then Reds, then Black fuses, along with AMR and Audio Horizons, and placed them in ALL my setups, there might be the slightest chance I'm wrong. But as strongly as YOU feel it can be explained by technical issues in power supplies, I feel that if something consistently demonstrates the same issue through 5 different manufacturer's lines of product, and 3 different setups, it is unlikely I need to be an electrical engineer to trust my deductions. It is best for people to be aware of BOTH of our assessments. Think of us as filling in for the now discontinued, and fabulous, inter-commentary system that TAS used to have. Now we, the consumers have to do the work that they once did for us thru that system of different reviewers with completely different systems commenting on a component. Only now, the components are of the more microscopic variety: 1" long, and 1 ounce, instead of 24" long and 50 pounds. It's what we used to call 'getting down to the real nitty gritty.' Now it's capacitors, fuses and internal wiring. Will it never end??? |
@nonoise - that is very cool. The Marantz will react well to the Furutech/PADIS since it is voiced on the warm side. The PADIS will bring out the resolution and detail much more. I also have had experience during the evolution of my equipment where I've had the same "hey, there's someone actually singing over there!" effect. Do you want another "sleeper"? Try the Furutech FI-15(R) Plus Rhodium power cord connectors -- both IEC and male plugs. They use the same rhodium contacts and wire clamp assembly as the other Furutech plugs, but in a very inexpensive case. Be careful with this one because the flip-up plastic covers are held on by only a thin bendable plastic hinge. If you put too much torque against it or open/close it too many times, the plastic hinge will break. It's an amazing connector, if you want to try. You can get them for $56 each USD. |
Finally got around to putting a PADS fuse in the 'ol Marantz integrated and it was like it coughed up a hairball. 🐱 Well, not as drastic as that but I can't see things getting any better for the foreseeable future. What I had before was some really good sonic representations of the music and now it has a more corporeal feel to it. Not 3-D but more of "hey, there's someone actually singing over there, or, that guitar sounds a bit too real." Add in more thump to the bass, a more liquid presentation and when called for some outstanding separation and you get the picture. Also, as with the fuse changes in the SACD player, everything is now louder than what I'm used to hearing. I've had to turn it down 2-3db to get the same level that I"m used to. My old setting is just too loud. I normally listen with SPLs at around the mid 70s, with peaks into the low 80s. When I used to turn it down to the 60s, it was listenable, but weak, and lacking in dynamics. After the fuse changes, I turned it down for a moment and realized I could hear everything with the same level of enjoyment and appreciation as when louder. All that was lacking was the oomph from normal levels. I always thought that because my speakers are only 85db that I had to turn that volume knob up to wake the speakers up but that is now not the case. Head scratching time. All the best, Nonoise |
@geoffkait - Naw. I'm not going to fret much since I know what to expect. We audiophiles know the drill. It's just the wait until that moment when it all clicks into place. Like I said, I'm going to put a CD on repeat every night now and couple in the regular listening that I do and I'll hit that 200 hr mark shortly. As for all the other variables, that too is part and parcel to the game. We've all had our systems dialed in only to go "huh?" when it doesn't sound right, and it turns out to be just one of those variables doing it's thing. It's just that what I've heard these fuses are capable of, and for the cost, makes me wish I've gotten them first since they're half the price I paid for the HiFi Silver Stars and that was two years ago. Prices have gone up with each newer version of the other brands and these PADIS fuses didn't. No newer and better, USDA ( Mom and three out of four dentists)) approved, along with the price increase. Just the same fuse and the same price. All the best, Nonoise |
I don’t wish to be argumentative but I’m pretty sure that it’s actually rather difficult to separate out the "ups and downs" of fuse break in or any other kind of break in, especially over a period of hundreds of hours or more. That’s a hundred hours of music being played. The reason I say that is because of all the intentional and unintentional factors or variables audiophiles are subject to every day. It’s a question of cause and effect. Nothing is in stasis. What do I mean by unintentional factors and variables? Well, things like weather, time of day, day of week, sunspot activity, changes to the system, and others, without getting too crazy. Sounds good on a nice sunny day and terrible on a rainy day. What card carrying audiophile is going to sit on his hands while he waits for the latest fuse, cable, preamp, what have you, to break in? There’s not enough time in the universe for that. There is also the sticky problem of the next fuse. and the one after that. Do you wait around for a couple hundred hours for them too? 😛 |
@auxinput, I'm not looking forward to the ups and downs to come so I'll continue to put some CDs on repeat overnight to speed things up. I'm so impatient having to wait to try the PADIS in my amp. The frustration one goes through when everything "sounds right now"to "what the heck happened" can be off putting but to anyone who tries these fuses, they're worth it. It's really no worse than cables or DACs. After hearing of your plight, I'm glad I only have one fuse in my integrated. I don't know if I have the patience to experiment to the extent you have but in the end, it's worth it. All the best, Nonoise |
Thanks Nonoise. I believe you may go through a few more areas of burn-in pain with those Padis. Rhodium is like that. There could be times you turn it on and listen and say "I just can't listen to this!". Sometimes it can be bright, sometimes hard-edged and brittle, sometimes the high frequencies go away and it becomes messy. The last 50-70 hours is typically the hardest where the rhodium works through the brightest and hardest edge tones. At about 200 hours is where most of the pain is worked out, but the rhodium can continue to mature and refine until about 300 hours. What I have found recently is that some components do not work well with full Furutech rhodium (also depends on power cords / interconnects). I use all rhodium plated power cords as well as interconnects. In your situation, the Marantz equipment is typically voiced to be warm. I think This can work very well with the rhodium plated fuses in getting the most resolution out of these pieces of equipment. I would say burn the SACD fuses in fully and then listen to see if you're happy. The Hi-Fi Silver Star is going to be a more forgiving fuse when compared to the Rhodium. It will not be as revealing. You can always put Padis in the integrated later if you decide you want more resolution/detail there. In my situation, I recently determined that my very strong/fast Emotiva XPR-1 class AB solid state amps where just too fast in responding to the waveforms. I have Krell processor with just one Class A analog stage. This was not enough to smooth the waveforms out before it hit the Class AB amp. The sound was just too thin (revealing the character of Emotiva without remorse). I went ahead and put back in the Isoclean fuses I used to run in them. The result was an improvement warmth and better midbass and body (more volume). However, I lost too much high frequency clarity and the sound became a little "lo-fi". Very pleasant, but not enough detail. The Emotvia amps use 2 fuses (one fuse feeds into the second fuse). I found using a combination of 1 Furutech + 1 Isoclean made the amp sound absolutely amazing. However, 2 Furutech or 2 Isoclean made it slant too far in those opposite directions. If you have a Class A preamp going into a Class A amplifier (or a very warm equipment like Marantz), then all rhodium can be a good thing. |
@auxinput, as of now I have PADIS fuses (all 4) in my Marantz SA15S2b SACD player and a HiFi Silver Star in my Marantz PM15S2b integrated. That's about it. What I appreciate about the PADIS fuses is the no nonsense way they advertise them. All they say about them is that they're: audio grade high pure copper OFC extremely low inductance non-magentic have a surge capacity of 1ns @ 1500A rhodium plated (with no nickel substrate) No voodoo or metaphysical claims. Just a well made component (that some here seem to confuse with a wire) that sells for a reasonable price. I seem to remember that they used to be available, stateside, over a year ago (or more) for the same money and then, they were only available overseas. I wonder if they were squeezed or incentivized to move on. It's probably my imagination. 🤔 All the best, Nonoise |
Well, I can't wait for the 200 hour mark so I'll deal with what I'm hearing up to hour 45. Everything was great until around 18-20 hrs in and the highs receded and everything else took on a most mid-fi of expression.😫 I seriously considered taking the PADIS fuses out and put the HiFi Silver Stars back in. Put the 'ol SACD player on repeat for the night and 9 hours later all was very well indeed. Around hour 36 I got the most expansive soundstage yet. There is now a wealth, if not surfeit of musical info coming at me. @auxinput informed that it would go through some ups and downs and he was right. He also said how revealing it can make of things upstream. I'd like to add that they are ruthlessly revealing of recordings as well. There's no where the music can hide now. Everything is ferreted out yet nothing draws undue attention to itself. There's also not a hint or trace of "digital" in the presentation. No grate, bite or hash: very clean yet natural sounding (to the point of actual neutrality?). It can be warm, detailed, bombastic, expressive, nuanced, etc. all at the same time. Very easy to listen to. It's amazing how when the music is out of balance (leading edge here, bass up there, mid range in your face) that other aspects of music takes a big step back and you don't notice it until balance is restored. I've yet to put one in my integrated and will still wait a bit for that. If you have any fuse that's in the signal path (like my SACD player or a speaker like a Maggie) then you owe yourself to try this PADIS fuse. I haven't heard the SR Red or Black fuses and am going to compare the SR 20 with the PADIS (in the integrated) when I get a chance. Again, for about $25 apiece, these fuses are the bee's knees. 🐝 All the best, Nonoise |
Well, I've had the PADIS fuses in my Marantz SACD player now for two days and they're staying put. I experienced the same thing with them as with the HiFi Tuning fuses: tried them one way and ended up reversing them for better sound. They exhibited the same tendency as the HiFi fuses when in the wrong direction: recessed highs, a soundstage with the speakers as the limit line, lack of air and extension up high, etc. They bettered the HiFi fuses though in sounding better when in the wrong way but once I reversed them, I got similar results as with the HiFi fuses in the way of improvements. What the PADIS has over the HiFi fuses is better control of the lows, wonderful vocals, masses strings, acoustic and electric guitars, and anything with tone. The HiFi fuses have what I'd describe as a bright or heightened leading edge on everything that wasn't apparent until I put in the PADIS fuses. Both are actually fine with me since if I never touched the HiFi fuses, I'd be still happy with them. They are engaging. Another way to put it is to say that the HiFi fuses have a more digital rendering while the PADIS sound more analogue (when I first heard them the image of a phonograph came to mind). As for the OP's question on how they'd perform in an amp, I can't say right now as I'm letting them break in until I hear no more improvement and then I'll try a PADIS and a SR20 fuse in my integrated. For about $23 apiece, there's no real downside to this folks. They arrived from Germany in 4 days and they are a bargain for those who don't want to shell out what SR fuses are going for. All the best, Nonoise |
Go and commit yourself Geoff, you need the rest. All you do on these forums is create arguments for argument sake. You have no technical merit, and one day will be laughed off, like you have been on other "Tech Forums" which don't seem have "voodoo'ist followers" as there seems to be here. Cheers George |
Whoa! What? Looks like I t’s still the same tired Strawman argument, that "properly implemented" or properly working fuses are all that’s needed. I mean unless you’ve completely given up and no longer wish to chase the dragon and pursue the whole sound quality thing. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that the purity of the metals of the end caps and fuse wire as well as attention vibration and RFI, cryogenics, affect fuse performance. Just like cables. I don’t even have to utter that forbidden word, you know, the one that sets naysayers’ hair ablaze. 🔥 🔥 🔥 |
That is the type of fuse I avoid using:All correctly implemented fuses are close to their blow point in normal operation, as if anything out of the ordinary should draw more current that's not normal it should blow to protect and keep the circuitry/pcb's from being fried to an absolute minimum. The fuse I linked to, shows what many switch on surges can do to ANY properly implemented fuse. As current draw at "switch on" is when an ac mains fuse is taxed the most, and when weakened ones, that have seen many switch on surges can blow, even though there's nothing wrong elsewhere. Cheers George |
I have no qualms with the images of the fuse that George posted. I suppose they are of the same one as it ages. That is the type of fuse I avoid using: a bog standard one, made to a price point. Again, 😩, a better made fuse can be had if you're willing to pony up for it and it doesn't need to break the bank. All the best, Nonoise |
Inrush currents from moment of switch on, can cause a fuse to be weakened by many said inrush turn on’s, to a point of blowing one day, here's a visual proof. https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg Cheers George |
Nonoise, to be sure it’s clear the caution I was expressing just above pertains not only to avoiding the possibility of blowing a fuse, but to avoiding the possibility of other damage to the equipment, or degradation of its long-term reliability, that may be much more serious. I make a point of not even turning my computer or TV set on for at least 30 seconds or so after turning them off. Regards, -- Al |
Couldn't all this caution with powering on and off of equipment be construed as going a bit overboard when defending a belief? Some here have bandied about how PCs cannot possibly get one better sound because, inferior amp design. Yet we all must walk on eggshells when it comes to fuses? Common sense is being conflated with "what if" or "it just might be". Anyone that impatient to operate their equipment shouldn't be allowed near said equipment. I'd hate to see them operate at a shooting range. Not really an argument to make. I've pointed out in another thread about high rupturing fuses and how it seems that what works for them was simply applied to the fuses we use in audio equipment. Yes, they charge too much (unless you know where to look) but HR fuses DON'T deteriorate with age. Wouldn't anyone want a fuse like that? Something designed to remain constant and perform consistently, instead of rolling the dice whenever you turn something on? I've heard the differences they make and no amount of debate will convince me I'm hearing things. In fact, I've just ordered 5 PADIS fuses for about $130 (with shipping from Germany) and will let everyone know what I find out about them. It's really no biggie. All the best, Nonoise |
Kosst_Amojan 8-15-2017I would add that depending on the specific design even a brand new fuse might blow if a component is turned on too soon after being turned off. DC voltages that are supplied to various parts of the circuitry may still be in the process of decaying, resulting in uncontrolled and unpredictable behavior if the component is turned on while that is occurring. IMO it’s never a good idea to turn any electronic component on until sufficient time has elapsed from when it was turned off to be confident that all of its circuitry is no longer capable of functioning in any manner, controlled or uncontrolled. That may mean a few seconds or a few minutes, depending on the specific design. Regards, -- Al |
