Sometimes you can file a claim with the carrier for damage. Maybe the seller will send you some partial refund to defray his low IQ.
When Will We Learn?
I retired in 2020 and have been selling much of my higher-end equipment while it still has considerable value. A few of those pieces were replaced by more mid-fi pieces, but ones that usually punch way above their weight. That lessened the pain of losing the higher SQ of the more expensive gear. This past week, I bought a very nice Aperion 6C center speaker that was in pristine condition before it shipped. It arrived today, with all kinds of protection on top of the speaker and almost none underneath. The speaker weighs 40 pounds, and one of the front corners got smashed. What was so galling was that I communicated my concern to the seller before making the purchase, because how you pack an item has a lot more to do with protecting it than how much padding you add. This seller obviously was not familiar with that concept (it was not an Audiogon purchase, BTW). The damage did not affect the sound of the speaker, but since it was a front corner, it will be a constant reminder of the unnecessary incident. The kicker was that I agreed to pay an $83.00 shipping charge to avoid this from happening, but there is no way to insure against stupidity.
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I purchased a fairly heavy amp here a number of years ago. It arrived in a single cardboard box with inflatable pillows half of which were deflated. Surprisingly there was no visible physical damage but the amp wouldn’t power up. I contacted the seller who stated he paid UPS to pack the amp. Next ,I contacted UPS and they sent out a driver. When he saw it he stated they could not support the claim because it was improperly packed. When I informed him that UPS packed it he shook his head and said that UPS would honor the claim which they did. |
I’ve had total disaster, plinth, TT, tonearms, dust cover ALL damaged here and there. Seller/shipper was idiotically irresponsible to me as well as himself. Even if insurance is for you, you pay seller for it, the seller buys the insurance, so the damage is on your end (take photos outside, and layer by layer when unpacking), you have to document the damage at your end, and he has to make the insurance claim on his end. Even if he is not successful with the claim (as my disaster was not covered), you need to get your money back. Sooo, before sale, I write questions to seller, get assurances, IN WRITING, before, and those messages are in eBay’s system. Much easier to make a successful claim with eBay, PayPal protection, reverb, etc. I always fund my PayPal account with my credit card with the best protection. I have called the credit card prior to purchases, to verify protection, and they keep records of those calls. Generally they process a problem as Fraud. They threaten PayPay, PayPal threatens to close seller’s account ... When I riskily bought my long tonearm from Russia, I called square deal. Told them, no maker or parts in USA. They said, if unable to find someone to repair, they will cover the full cost. Next, I needed VAS to rewire the tonearm because 1 wire’s insulation wore off. Square deal covered VAS bill in full. IOW, assume it MIGHT be a disaster, then what??? Oh yeah, any costly item, using Friends and Family is simply stupid. Tell seller you will pay the PayPal protection fees in full to get them to send you an invoice for the item, i.e. GOODS. Slight damage, you can get a partial refund, same documentation methods, then I/you should set the reasonable refund amount, don’t wait for the seller’s offer. ................ Oh yeah, buying used, get brand and model # on the invoice, but do NOT include Vintage or Antique in the description. UPS sold the seller insurance, then later they said: "It's an antique, we don't insure antiques". |
There's a belief system spreading around the world that you can buy something from some random person on the internet, have them ship it to you anywhere in the world and the product arrives in perfect working order 100% of the time. A small number of people have made billions of dollars selling you on that idea. |
As a buyer, you cannot make a seller into a better shipper. I never agree to pay for shipping. If they want $2000 plus $100 shipping, I offer $2100 and they ship it. this eliminates any ambiguity who is responsible for shipping. Until you recieve it in good condition, the seller is responsible. When you give advice on shipping or pay extra, you are muddying the waters. I always make it clear that shipping is thier responsibility, that I am in no hurry so take whatever time needed to ship it safely. that is all I say. When I am the seller, I operate the same way. I take responsbility for shipping. I've done a lot of shipping, plus I'm an engineer/physicist so I know what it takes to protect a package. So I never have shipping damage...well almost. I did have a component of an amp inside the amp become dislodged during shipping and I worked with the buyer to get that fixed. If a seller doesn't agree to ship on their nickel and take responsiblity, then pass. there are other peices of equipment out there. If they seem uncertain about their shipping abilities, I pass. Jerry |
These kind of concerns are why I either buy through a dealer or through a company when used… like Echo, or Upscale. My audio equipment is the second largest investment I have after my house. Buying used makes sense, but worrying about shipping, and perhaps a seller that is less than perfect is just not worth the stress. Choosing the right audio component has lots of uncertainty and requires a great deal of effort. Throw on top of that, uncertainty about the seller, shipping, all possible ways you can get taken advantage of… not worth it to me. What are you going to save? I buy from dealers and companies that take the worry about shipping and condition of a component out of the equation. I can sleep at night. I know I am going to get what I paid for.
Perhaps it was buying my first car (used) in Chicago, from a completely dishonest jerk. I completely got taken. I ended up paying more for the repairs than the initial cost of the vehicle. I don’t like worrying any more. Seeking a “great deal” can have costs. |
I had a pair of Thiel Viewpoints destroyed in shipping. The price was great, the shipping was terrible. In retrospect I should have sent him the packaging. The price was so low it was clearly someone getting rid of something he didn't care about. Had I taken an hour or two and made padded boxes he could've just dropped them into it would've been worth it. |
I usually only buy through Audiogon, TMR, USAM and have had very good results, with only a couple of disappointments on shipping issues. I am transitioning from a full suite of Dali Helicons in my main A/V system to Aperion Audio speakers. I found a pair of the excellent 6Ts just an hours' drive from home on Audiogon and will pick them up this weekend (they had been listed for several months and had gone unsold because seller was not willing to ship, evidently). The 6C center came up on ebay, and it looked like the seller knew his stuff.....the speaker was priced very reasonably and was in pristine condition, with a shipping charge of $83. This was a FL to NC deal (700 miles), and that seemed fair due to the size/weight of the speaker. I couldn't afford to pass it up, because this model is seldom seen for sale, especially in this condition at the listed price ($175). A one-inch layer of solid Styrofoam underneath the speaker would have prevented the damage from happening, and the seller used pieces of that elsewhere in the box, but almost as as afterthought, not strategically placed. He (somewhat) over-protected the top of the speaker and under-protected the bottom.....I should have hired carlsbad2 to warn him that most damage comes from below, not from above. That damage being the result of being dropped from too great a distance, in most cases. |
I try to avoid shipping but you can’t always buy locally. I’m in Mass so often times I just go to NH as there is no sales tax. There are a few good dealers that make it worth the trip. Audio Visual Therapy and Fidelis in Nashua are great to deal with. I just had my second transaction with TMR and it was great , fortunately each piece arrived safe. Earlier this year I bought an open box turntable from HiFi Heaven and it was so poorly packed I was lucky that it arrived unscathed. Really lucky. It was so ignorantly packed I will never do business with them again. They absolutely did not care. For used gear I only buy and sell locally. Not worth the hassle and risky do to shipping and often the package is heavy adding to the risk.
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LOL, I am such a fussbudget when it comes to my stereo gear....the damage is not so bad as to be visible from the front, unless you're close. The main damage is to the bottom of the corner, and I've decided to let sleeping dogs lie. Thanks for the offer, mijostyn. I live in High Point, NC, and up until the outsourcing of actual manufacturing jobs, it was (still is, because of the semi-annual furniture market shows) known as the furniture capital of the world. Lots of talented woodworkers in the area. |
easiest way to post a photo is a link to your google photos or apple photo ap, whichever you use. https://photos.app.goo.gl/sPngeiuBTDSdEPFc7
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@ozzy62 ...which is why I do my own packaging. If anything fails, I've only myself to blame, having known what and how it needed to be done.... Part of previous life included Ship & Receive for a small co., items generally robust enough to handle some abuse that hi-speed sorting machinery (UPS, FEDX, etc.) inflicts daily 24/7....but I'd over pad anyway.... One of the partners called me out on it, had one of our 'numb-ers' take over... Things started to get rejected by clients....some just across town....just enough to be an annoyance, the phone calls, emails.... Was happy to not have to S & R anymore, but could never understand (nor be 'a pest') enough to query how a minute more on wrapping could balance out having to re-fabricate Anything for less COG or ROI. Being a co-owner now, with a much more rugged sort of product.... I still evil eye how our stuff goes out.... Another cargo strap, infilling loose items/tools within said products heading out locally or across state lines is worth the time and the whines.... *S* And, in our OPs' case.....He's 2 hours away via interstate, and the door is always open to another 'phile. The photo(s) will tell their tale.... ;) |
Bummer. As one who has shipped and received my share of gear, I've experienced a fair number of "rejected" claims. I discovered that UPS states that properly-packaged item can survive a 2 foot drop. This is a good rule of thumb for packing on my end, regardless of shipping method, and instructing shippers on the other end. It appears that you had a conversation with the seller related to "proper packing" and they did not follow your specific instructions. I think you have a valid reason to request an adjustment from the seller due to the fact that they did not follow your reqquest. If you have an audit trail (via email?) you have a better case. I once bought a hand-built musical instrument and provided them specifics on how much impact the item would be subject to via shipping. Pack accordingly. It came in damaged. They made an adjustment. I would have preferred that it arrived non-damaged, but atleast the shipper had to pay for their mistakes. Best luck. |
I will ask the seller to consider some small adjustment, because the value of the speaker has dropped by at least half due to the damage (if I were to try to resell it). BTW, the cabinet is made of thick MDF and covered in a matte cherry veneer, very classy in an understated way. And get this - I traveled 60 miles one way yesterday to pick up the 6Ts (which were purchased on Audiogon from someone with zero feedback). I had been looking at them since I first saw the listing back in April or May, and one of the first questions I asked via the Audiogon conversation feature was "Do you have the center that goes with them?" I got either a negative response or no response (been so long, I can't remember, but none appeared on the convo record). Yesterday, he said he had just seen my query for the first time, and asked if I still needed the center. No wonder he has zero feedback, despite being an Agon member for several years. His communication during the sale was almost absent completely, to the point that I did not get a response to my email the day before our scheduled meeting to confirm that meeting. The real shock came when I sent a text a few minutes before leaving my house, and I didn't get a response until I was almost to the rendezvous point. In other words, I had no way of knowing for sure that he intended to show up and had to blindly trust that he would. Extremely weird to say the least. |
@discnik ...MediumDensityFibreboard......the sawdust cousin of particleboard.... Somewhat easier to infill & form, a +. The cherry veneer....are the fragments still attached, or at least, available? The matte finish is a surface coat, whereas the veneer matching can be problematic....but as you noted, it's a bottom corner..... Just to verify, is this the item under discussion? (...stated at the site as a gloss finish, but 🤷♂️....if I knew Everything, a different pay scale I've never known....*L*) The front surround didn't damage as well? Odd, but.... When you take pics, put a quarter ($.25) in frame; allows to be able to scale the scar.... Re your 'meet' with the seller.... I've known of drug deals that were more 'upfront' about it, in terms of contact and follow-thru....your concerns, appropo... Anyway, I'm pretty 'obvious' in this 'noid world..... Post pics, puleze, J |