How about the Italian Pathos InControl MKII. Lovely pre-amp, tubed but not overly warm. Very good looking as well !!
Recommendations for a tubed preamp
I'm looking for a tube preamp that would pair well with my Lampizator Big 7 DAC and Coda S5.5 amp. My speakers are Joseph Audio Pulsars.
I've been considering the LTA MicroZOTL, but unfortunately it's only available in the U.S., and I'm based in Europe. My second option was the Qualiton C200, but there are almost no reviews online, and I’m worried it might be hard to resell later on.
Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated — thanks!
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@mclinnguy thanks a lot! |
Been listening to the Backert hooked to the Coda for a few hours this morning. Yes, matches very well. I think I will listen all day with it, and then it is going to have to go back into the office system for tomorrow. I can’t believe anybody would not enjoy this pairing. Gobs of natural detail, definitely more clean and transparent than the Coincident 300B. There is more presence, sounds more live, certain instruments jump out at you from space. Sublime. Kinda wish I didn’t bring Coda upstairs! Makes me want to upgrade the 300B tubes to Takatsuki’s. I can also see some of thinking this sound would be too bright for their liking. Easy fix- take out the Tesla ECC82’s and put in the Gold Lions. Or not use the rhodium Furutech GTX outlet and install a Shunyata or gold Furutech outlet instead. Downsides: with my 98db/m efficient Horning’s I do hear a little pop when turning the Coda on, there is a little hiss if you put your ear within 1 foot of the tweeter, and a little more hiss in some original recordings can be noticed (Weary Blues-Duke Ellington). Also, the volume on the Backert is on the lower end, it is not in the optimal 11 to 1 o’clock range, more like 9 o’clock, even with RCA’s to the Coda. I suppose instead of XLR’s from the DAC to the Backert if I used RCA’s there should be at least 3db less output? Would this Rhumba sound even better? I should call Andy and ask him. |
See if I can whip this off before the World Series game. :) I first took out the Shuguang Black Treasure, Mullard black based 5AR4 and Sylvania 6SL7 tubed Coincident 300B out and put in the Coda S5.5 in this system: Antipodes K50>T+A DAC 200>Nordost Tyr2 XLR>Backert Labs Rhumba Extreme 1.3 (with Rhythm caps)>Inakustik Air 2404 RCA's > amp > Fidelium Speaker cables>Horning Eurfrodites. Power cords are a mix of Shunyata Alpha V2, Sigma V2, Zavfino Silver Dart, and Audioquest Hurricane to the amp. Shunayata Hydra Sigma power conditioner. I listened to DSD 512 tracks of Miles Davis All Blues, Patricia Barber Ode to Billie Joe, The Moon, Rickie Lee Jones Chuck E's in Love, Holly Cole I Can See Clearly Now, Steven Wilson Luminol for some fast heavy rock, and a Qobuz high res track of Agnes Obel The Curse. AMP 1: mids and treble softer, yet no less more detailed, just more polished overall. Bass more even but a little less impact. Soundstage seemed a little larger, with some of the instruments more precise in space. AMP 2: Bass more robust, not more defined or deeper but bigger sounding. Mids have a little more edge, highs like cymbals seem to emphasize different frequencies- No better or worse as far as resolution, just different- hard to put words to it in a 30 min comparison. If you read the comparison above between the solid state amp and the 300B above you might come to the wrong conclusion. I guarantee if someone was blindfolded and told to pick the 300B tube amp they would choose AMP 1- that was the Coda. Crazy. Makes the Coincident 300B look like a bargain, doesn't it. Out the Backert and in the Prima Luna EVO 400 (PL). First though, the PL was previously "upgraded" with Amperex f33 brown base rectifiers, a set of old Telefunken's, and 2 sets of Tesla 12AU7's. This pre amp with these tubes sounds MUCH better than it did with stock tubes. I have been using the 2 centre yellow lettered Tesla's with rhodium pins from the PL in the Backert Labs pre, which sounded right in between the Telefunken's and the stock Gold Lions- perfect for my ears. There is nothing wrong with the Prima Luna, it sounds good. But the Backert takes everything to a higher level. I already knew it was the better pre amp, and everyone who has heard the Backert would have guessed this, but still it is nice to confirm. The Rhumba Extreme yields more separation between instruments, resolution is better, but it is not brighter, rather smoother and more liquid. Voices are less sibilant, and the proverbial veil or haze is removed -one might mistake this for more "air", I hear it as a distortion. It is more dynamic, which if one simply weighed the 2 preamps they might mistake the 50+lb Prima Luna to be the winner here- but a patented more modern technology is employed in the Backert in regards to the power supply. Proof is in the pudding- there is more impact with the Backert. More simply the Backert Extreme brings one closer to the real thing, at least to my ears, which I believe is the goal of any audiophile. This is also what I heard when I first put it in this system with the Coincident 300B. But if one can't cough up the extra cash I don't see any issue with someone snapping up a Prima Luna EVO 400 and enjoying that for a few years until they upgrade, this is basically what I did. Maybe there are so many for sale because people did not try better tubes in it? It does bring it to a different level. Just thinking out loud as to how much I will need to spend to better this upgraded Rhumba Extreme
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we are a coda dealer the Zesto leto is the preamp we use with our 8 and 16
the Zesto is exceptional it is balanced and has a unique tone control option it also has an excellent remote Zesto offers exceptional service
this preamp is new 11k however we would be able to offer it to you for far less as we are currently not using the preamp in our reference system which ues a Trinov dac preamp
Dave and Troy audio intellect NJ Zesto dealers |
There is a simple switch to change the voltage -- it couldn't be easier. My LTA microZOTL L3 is on a ship right now from the USA to my new home in Europe. And as @jacoblta stated, they ship to Europe anyway. |
Thanks for the suggestion, I've already sent an e-mail and private message here to Jacob.
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@gabriel123 - if you want to know about voltage switching on the LTA, just send them an email; Jacob is very good with responding quickly... |
@mclinnguy I was rather thinking about the possibility of changing a fuse or making some other adjustment that would allow the LTA to operate properly at a different voltage. Since companies manufacture and distribute their equipment worldwide, I assume they design it to work with various voltages after minor adjustments such as switching a fuse. |
It is not hard to get a travel tourist voltage converter for shavers and hairdryers etc, but what is that going to do with the sound? And a decent one is going to cost a few hundred. If it was me I sure wouldn't want to store my pre amp in with the luggage on a trip and deal with the possible loss, damage, or even the customs hassles. |
Conrad Johnson, get home theater bypass and I think they all have it but I’m not sure. gat2 would be ideal. I think they’ve got some more recent offerings that are a lot more expensive and probably overpriced. They seem really well built it’s a good company. I looked into the cj mono amplifiers, but wanted solid state for the bass drivers. But maybe the tube amplifier would’ve been fine. |
@larsman Thanks for your post. How would you describe sound character of your Aric Super 6SN7? Were you able by any chance to compare it to the LTA MicroZOZL? I’m currently on the fence about choosing one of them. My friend from Canada is coming to Europe and could take his LTA to check it out with my system but we’re not sure if there’s any easy way to switch voltage from 120V to 230V.
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@gabriel123 - I've got an Aric Super 6SN7 and I'm going to be sending that in to have that upgrade you noted (I don't have room for 2 boxes like the Motherlode). I bought my unmodified one used on USAM and am happy as can be with it, with Ray Reserve 6SN7 tubes, so I want to get it to sound as good as it possibly can. If I were you, I'd get that one you saw advertised. |
@gabriel123 What an excellent idea! This is the way I went for quite a while, pairing a tube preamp with a solid state amp. I even paired mine with an amp a lot like your Coda, one of its’ technical predecessors - an Innersound Electrostatic amplifier, designed by Roger Sanders. Whenever it needed service I sent it to the guy that runs Coda. The Coda amps kind of fly under the radar, but they are incredible - well built, superb sounding, wonderfully performance-transparent. I think the Coda amps are some of the best built and best sounding power amps out there, for solid state. The iron fist in the velvet glove. So, you’ve already received many excellent recommendations on the tube preamps. There are many you would be very happy with. But before you make your decision, however, I encourage you to scroll up to the top of this Forum and check out the "Popular All-Time" threads. You’ll find one called "Preamp Deal of the Century". That thread lasted well over 20 years and has over 26 million views. That’s pretty incredible. That thread is all about Supratek preamps. Custom built in Western Australia. They are wonderfully built, all point to point wired, sound superb, and are just are very solid performers. Oh, and they have a lifetime guarantee. I’m think you’ll be happy with whatever you choose. There are many, many excellent sounding tube preamps out there and many have been mentioned on this thread. Best regards and best of luck, Markus(used to be the naimnut) |
gabriel123 The interior of the Aric Audio components (all of his products look similar), is that way because it is "point to point wired" without the use of circuit boards. By the way, the Don Sachs/Lynn Olson Raven preamp, and Supratek look very similar....and is common among specialty manufacturers. I actually like that, as it is much easier to repair, and the builder has control over the wiring used in the project.....no printed circuit boards.
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mcclinnguy and gabriel123 My Aric Audio Motherlode XL is paired with a CODA S5.5 (if buying used, make sure has current style transistors.....Doug Dale can confirm for you, mid 2024?), and I have tried it with all of the preamps I listed..... it's an utterly brilliant amp, paired with a brilliant preamp.
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I am in the U.S. but have owned a couple of preamps from Europe. I had the Qualiton APR204 Preamp shortly after it came to market. I felt it was very well made & I personally upgraded the output caps to Jupiter copper foils. I thought it was a nice sounding preamp but their more current units are supposed to be on another level from what I was told. The APR204 was basically a $2k preamp & That's what it sounded like. I wasn't wowed out of my seat by it but wasn't disappointed. Dynamic swings in volume could be startling at times..& that was super enjoyable to me. I love when a quick smack of a drum can make me flinch. This was one of if not their 1st preamp offering. The owner was nice & responsive & I wouldn't hesitate to try one of their newer models based on my 1st experience...if I could currently afford it. I've also owned the Icon Audio LA4 MKiii. I upgraded all the caps in this unit. Not as dynamic as the Qualiton but the Icon was better at 3 dimension, putting sounds out into space. Nice soundstage..& very perceivable dark background. I really enjoyed it. When I paired my Pontus 15th to it (single ended only though) the soundstage was a real treat. The LA5 TX is supposed to be a clear step up..using transformer output. I'd love to get my hands on one. I'd go for the 5 if anyone was interested. Communication with Icon designer David Shaw was pleasant & extensive. Nice guy. Very low noise preamps with their Double Choke power supply. Double PI I think is how they refer to it. I still own a Schitt Freya that was mentioned in this thread & while it's a versatile nice preamp it is no match in sound quality & stage perceptions as they other 2 I mentioned. |
You will have to pardon my approach to describing the sound qualities of Aric's gear, as I am merely a music lover and not a reviewer versed in audio superlatives and vernacular. For reference, with my Pass SS Amps(XA60.8, and XA160.8), and now Coda Model 16 I have heard each of the following tube preamps in my rack and listening room, McIntosh C2300, C2500 Luxman CL38 ARC 5R Don Sachs
The Motherlode bests them all in how rich and musical it presents itself. More depth and dimensionality in regards to the separation of instruments, left-right, back-front...it was as close to the "live" sound that we all chase. Detail is superb, but not analytical. The bass is tight and punchy, where others were mushy at times. In the end it just sounds best to my ears.
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@laaudionut How would you describe the sound character of the Aric? "This version got all possible upgrades from the bigger brother "The Motherlode II
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Welcome to boutique builders with hand made point-to-point wired and direct-soldered units with shorter distances, and most with more direct wiring vs circuit boards and production line assembly units catering to plug-in connectors and speed of build. The proof is in the pudding when listening and comparing. The only time it matters more is when the cover is off and you want it to look good instead, or if there is noise generated as a result of things touching each other that should not be. Most design-builders accommodate for this, and they measure for noise before sending units out. They know how things can be wired and configured manually like this and big MFGs dont do it this way because it's labor intensive. That's why people like and buy the boutique builder units, most sound better. Only way to know is to try one or demo one. Best of Luck on the new journey. |
Aric Audio without hesitation! I have his Motherlode paired to a Coda 16 and it is by far the best my system has ever sounded...and I have had a lot of gear go on and off the audio rack. The inside of his tube offerings may appear messy in comparison, but it only because he personally builds and hand wires all of the internal components and never uses circuit boards. Call him and speak with him...you will not hear a better tube preamp at any price. And he is a great guy with the best customer service in our industry! |
@mclinnguy I can't say much about the Coda 5.5 yet, as I'm still waiting for it to be delivered (hopefully sometime this week). That said, I'm trying to figure out my next step with a preamp. I'd love to have a complete system before the end of the year. If possible, it would be great to hear your thoughts on the synergy between the Coda and the PrimaLuna EVO400, as well as with the Backert Rhumba Extreme. There are some EVO400 units available on the European used market at good prices. There are also a few Aric Audio Super 6SN7s, but I'm not fully convinced about it.... |
You have some nice components @gabriel123, how are you liking the Coda? Compared to your older Arcam kit was it? @vthokie83 's post is a good one, I don't think anyone has read anything negative from any pre's on that list. I was torn between trying an Aric Audio pre or the Backert, but found a Backert and snapped it up- it's fabulous. I still would like to try an Aric Audio in the future- It sure doesn't hurt to give Aric a call and discuss what you want in a pre, and what might be a good match for your gear. I own the S5.5, and the Primaluna evo400, and the EAR 868, and a Backert Rhumba extreme (1.3 technically, but upgraded with 1.4 parts and with same Vcaps as Rhythm.) If you have some time I could throw the Coda in the system with the Rhumba and see how it gets along if you are interested; I was wondering myself how it would compare with the 300B- haven't done this yet since acquiring the Rhumba, but the issue is that room is getting worked on, so it may have to wait until the weekend. |
Consider the EAR Yoshino 868L tube pre designed by the late great tube genius Tim de Pavaracini. If you have a Quality Turntable the 868PL. The 868 gets surprisingly close to the performance if the EAR Yoshino 912 one of the best Pre Amps ever made and which I am now extremely fortunate to use. The 868 is aesthetically beautiful, however its not the case work that makes it shine. It’s dynamic but not at the expense of refinement and nuance. Whatever choice you make, make it by listening, preferably in your system, in your room with your media. Good luck with your search. There are some great preamps in this price bracket but its about synergy not specs |
@conmoto is Odyssey in the US? |
Hi @gabriel123 I have not had it at home. I heard it at a dealer. I also know someone at the factory from which I can infer the insane dedication and craftmanship that goes into these units in Hungary. It's all about synergy though, it either matches your system or don't.... |
My youtube feed just came up with the new Galion Navy Tube Preamp. I watched it and was super impressed with the quality of the components, really top notch, especially the caps. BTW - No XLR, only RCA. It is within your price range. I do not know anything about it, but, I thought I would post it here for your evaluation. As I said earlier, I am using a McIntosh c2300 with vintage smooth plate Telefunkens and I am sticking with this preamp, so, I have no idea about the story with this new Galion. fyi, here is a link to the new Galion Navy Tube Preamp video.
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@parkergetdean Have you used the Qualiton C200? I've been looking for a reliable review of this unit from a forum member for quite some time. Thanks guys, for all your recommendations — I've checked out almost all the companies you mentioned. They’re all great, offering excellent sound quality, just with different flavors. I’m still on the fence about which one to choose! |
gabriel123 I'll post the best options in order IMO, price new.......is up to you if you can find used. (1) Aric Audio Motherlode II $5,750, Aric Audio Motherlode XL $6,875 (adds XLR connections) OR Don Sachs/Lynn Olson Raven $6,395 (2) Backert Labs Rhumba Extreme 1.4 (NOT base Rhumba) $8,500 (3) Aric Audio Super 6SN7 $4,625 (4) Supratek 6SN7 Cabernet $4,000 |
I think this product is really interesting. YOu could put this inline with a SS pre and stay within budget.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0s8_WLu_T4&t=113s
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But no hurry.