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Pondering a Speaker Upgrade

I have had my new integrated amp Lyngdorf 3400 for almost 3 months now and I'm enjoying it thoroughly.  This is my first venture into high end audio with my previous set up being a Marantz AVR with Rotel 1582 power amp.  I am running the Lyngdorf with Martin Logan Motion 40 tower speakers.  Most on this site would consider these budget speakers  but in my view they sound pretty good.  Lots of detail with the Lyngdorf but still pleasing to listen to.  Good soundstage and imaging is fantastic.  I am using with a Sub which the Lyngdorf integrates perfectly for a bottom end that is really sweet.  The Room Perfect correction (a must in my space) is excellent.  However I have always wanted a complete high end system and I'm wondering how much better premium speakers would be with the Lyngdorf. I have been eyeing Bowers 805 d3 thinking standmounts might be better in my somewhat small listening space especially with a Sub.  I went to hear the 805s at Magnolia and though they get a lot of praise I was totally unimpressed.  To my disappointment they were driving the speakers with the same Rotel 1582 amp I upgraded from.  Not only did they not sound great the setup sounded small and in no way came close to the Logans driven by the Lyngdorf even with the Sub turned off.  I also greatly admire the Sonus Faber Olympica line of speakers but they have no dealers in the Washington DC metro area.  So my question is how much improvement might I expect in my system upgrading to a speaker like the 805 d, 804 d or Sonus Faber Olympica I or II  or similarly priced speakers. The Kef Reference I had also peaked my interest.   Especially if I'm using the sub could I expect an overall improvement in sound quality in the 30% range or would the difference be more marginal?  I know that different speakers will have different sound qualities but wondering in general if I want to consider an upgrade.  What I liked about the Logans when I bought them were the highs and mids.  They sounded much more alive and forward than Bowers and the Faber Venere similar in price.  While I still like the Logans I think my taste is changing and I would maybe choose something a little more laid back but not too laid back.
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15 responses Add your response
helomech
1,495 posts
 
I really liked the Martin Logan Motion series when I auditioned them at Magnolia a few months ago. I felt they punched well above their price class. The B&W 702S2s didn't sound any better than the Motion60XTs to my ears, even though they cost nearly twice as much. So I'm not surprised by your experience with the 805s. 

I imagine you live near a large metropolis if you have a Magnolia in your Best Buy. Even if it requires a multi-hour road trip, your best bet is to audition as many speakers as you can at nearby dealers. 


yogiboy's avatar
yogiboy
5,464 posts
 
You should check out the Harbeth line of speakers. This dealer sells Harbeth and Lyngdorf. The dealer is about 2 hours from DC and it might be worth the trip!
https://overtureav.com/shop/harbeth-speakers
erik_squires
15,657 posts
 
Start with acoustics. As good as the Lyndorf sounds with DSP, it will sound better with room treatment. Try GIK Acoustics.

Try Monitor Audio, Joseph Audio or Fritz.
Post removed 
twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,313 posts
 
In DC, you've got Deja Vu, Gifted Listener (Centerville), Command Performance, and Evolution Audio.  You can hear a really good range of speakers over a couple of days, without spending too much on gas.
tlinkie
107 posts
 
Sorry, I couldn’t wade through that OP.  What was that, 2000 words and not a single paragraph break? Heck it may have been one sentence!
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,175 posts
 
ppack, the Lyngdorf has no sound of it's own and with Room Perfect it can correct any significant frequency anomaly a speaker has but it can not make a speaker more detailed or dynamic. It will improve any speaker's imaging. You are use to hybrid ESLs that have a somewhat limited dynamic range but are very detailed. If you REALLY want to get ABSOLUTELY amazing sound check out the Sanders Model 10. With your Lyngdorf you will not need Sander's electronic cross over so I am sure he will give you a price cut. These are hybrid ESLs that have much greater dynamic range and are even more detailed than your MLs. Once you are use to ESLs regular dynamic speakers will usually sound a bit bland.  http://sanderssoundsystems.com/ He will give you a 30 day in home trial. If you do not like them send them back. I do not have any relationship with Sanders. I do not own any of his products. I am a dedicated ESL user and I use a TACT processor which is the direct predecessor of your Lyngdorf. I have a very good idea what you will get which is an extremely detailed and dynamic sound system with pin point imaging.  
jmolsberg's avatar
jmolsberg
467 posts
 
Go visit Mark at Linear Tube Audio, they have a variety of speakers. give you a feel for some different flavors. you might end up with one of their amps.
johnto
972 posts
 
I've found that Magnolia, Best Buy is a very poor place to audition equipment usually not set up well and sales staff don't really know their product. Maybe you can find another store or someone in the area to have a good listen.
Post removed 
ppack's avatar
ppack OP
26 posts
 
Thanks to everyone for the useful advice. I now know about a couple additional audio stores in the DMV I didn’t know existed. It appears I can’t really judge if an upgrade is worthwhile without spending a lot of time listening to different speakers. Good thing I’m not in a hurry. My goal is that rich lush sound that the Sonus Fabers are known for and the Fabers are drop dead gorgeous.   

Meanwhile I found an old post on this site which states the following:

“Lush fullness in a stereo system is very volume dependent. As the volume goes up, fullness, palpable presence, and richness also goes up. So... to get that richness, you want to play louder.” ....

Any opinions?

I spent some time listening louder and find my current speakers have more of the sound qualities I’m looking for  than I had given them credit for. I’m now thinking I need a dedicated room more than new speakers in order to keep peace in our very open two person household.  Of course that’s a huge investment I’ll need to consider for a while.  I would enjoy this hobby a lot more with a secluded space that wouldn’t disturb other parts of the house.


auxinput
2,920 posts
 
I previously owned 805 D2 speakers and now own the 805 D3.  I absolutely love them.  The upgrade to the 804 or 803 series will give you a clearer midrange and some more bottom end, but I will say that the 805's are extraordinary speakers.

I heard 802 D3 speakers in three rooms at RMAF.  You really cannot grade this speaker based on one listening at Best Buy.  There was one room with 802D3 that just sounded so un-impressive that if that was my only exposure to B&W, I would have walked out and completely forgot about this speaker permanently.  The other two rooms were better, but they had their own unique sound, which is entirely dependent on the amp/electronics.
ppack's avatar
ppack OP
26 posts
 
Auxinput. I listened in their premium room which was treated but I  suspect the Rotel Amp wasn’t helping the 805s show their stuff. Question - I read a review that stated the 805s don’t shine unless they are played at higher volumes. Do you find this to be the case?  
avanti1960
1,405 posts
 
your speakers are nice but not very natural sounding.  the B&W 805 d3 can sound very natural but as you said on the small side and also have a peak in the bass response that causes them to emphasize a certain bass note frequency frequently. 
I have also never heard a Sonus Faber speaker that I liked.  Even the best of them tend to emphasize the bass and air extension at the sacrifice of midrange clarity.   
Having lived with Harbeth speakers I believe every audio and music lover should own a pair of them at one point.  Set up right and with the right system synergy they do so much right and are phenomenally natural. 
Coming from the MartinLogans I suggest either the SHL5+ or C7ES3.  There are discounts and used options out there that make them more reasonable.  Check out the Skylan stands as well and fill them with cat litter.   

auxinput
2,920 posts
 
I suppose it depends on who is listening and what equipment they are being played through.  As I have said, I have heard the D3 be absolutely amazing and also be very poor sounding.  In my own system, I think the D3 have one of the most natural sounds I have heard in a system.  There are others, of course.

I don't know that you have to turn up the volume a lot on the D3's.  I guess it depends on the room and the electronics.  I do know that you definitely want a high current amp with the B&W.
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