More discrete R2R Mulibit dacs.


There are many now going to the trouble of doing discrete R2R Mulitbit now that the last/latest Burr Brown PCM1704 multibit chip is no longer available "rip".

https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-terminator-r2r-dac

Cheers George


Convert?fit=crop&h=128&policy=eyjlehbpcnkioje1mdg1ota1mtmsimnhbgwiolsicmvhzcisimnvbnzlcnqixx0%3d&rotate=exif&signature=3d4fdb56550e4f04df6b23e5e9c0fb1c5430f5277987115cd46684e9c757857f&w=128georgehifi

Here are some direct links to this amazing looking circuitry.

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4b933e_1f4d615d52364f9eb3e891e34ed6487d~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_520,h_347,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/4b933e_1f4d615d52364f9eb3e891e34ed6487d~mv2.jpg

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4b933e_7b7dd4e1915747b091426786bb2b0c7d~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_520,h_387,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/4b933e_7b7dd4e1915747b091426786bb2b0c7d~mv2.jpg

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4b933e_737f10672a6a419a8564a75bfa5cb699~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_520,h_306,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/4b933e_737f10672a6a419a8564a75bfa5cb699~mv2.jpg

Cheers George
So, all those discrete components combined replace one chip?
kalaliSo, all those discrete components combined replace one chip?
Yep, and they stopped making them years ago, because  Delta Sigma was more than 20 x cheaper to make and allowed for dsd use, probably because there was no laser trimming to be done like in an r2r ladder multibit dac, the last true ladder mulitbit being the Burr Brown PCM1704. It was only 24/96 this thing above can do  24/382

Cheers George
There's always the Analog Devices AD5791 that's used in the Schiit Yggdrasil.  Granted, it's only 20 bit, but it's still a true R-2R ladder.  And expensive at minimum $60 a pop.
Yes the AD5791 is still available but it was never designed as an audio dac, I don’t know what the down sides are for this in audio use. I believe the last audio one was the PCM1704 and it was more like >$120, a Delta Sigma is like <$10.

"AD5791 APPLICATIONS:
Medical instrumentation Test and measurement Industrial control High end scientific and aerospace instrumentation."

Cheers George
Cool looking Dac but seriously Denafrips? That might be one of the worst names for audio gear ever :-)
I use an R2R in my dac but that is where the similarities end.  It is like saying a preamp uses 6DJ8/6922 tubes but one company uses the Amperex tube brand.  It comes down to the component design.  My power supply weighs in at 30lbs and I use DHT design.  So while the R2R may be better sounding, it still comes down to the design and implementation.  If it was just the R2R, I could make a DAC for $500!  There are plenty of good sounding DAC chips available such as the Sigma 32 bit for one.

Happy Listening. 
Speaking of R2R just picked up a 20 year old Audio Note Dac-3 Signature which uses a K grade BB PCM63 chip which is I believe R2R. It sounds utterly fantastic.
bigkidz

If you care to look/study and compare most dac chip manufacturer data sheets are adhered to for implementation, even some (hiend ones) using even the exact I/V stage and buffer stage that’s on those data sheets.
"Some" (me, Audio Note above ) use different I/V and buffers, but as far as dac implementation itself they nearly all follow the data sheet protocols.
But doing discrete with this topic that's another thing again.

Cheers George
That Terminator DAC does look pretty serious! Thanks for sharing George... Are you going to pursue this one?
Wish I had the funds.

Cheers George
Hi George,

I just ordered Ares for use with my TV. I`t will be interesting to see how it competes against my other digital. Never had discrete R2R before.
plutos
This is a bit off topic, I don’t know how this works in the US, but in Australia I have a 55" Panasonic plasma (I don’t find led or o’led natural), and a Panasonic PVR.
On one or the other can’t remember, in the setup menu both or one of them has two different digital (pcm or bitstream) for the digital out to choose from for the toslink, so I would say with this Multibit dac choose the pcm output, as that’s what they’re good at.

Cheers George
George,
I`m in Europe actually.
Yes that`s exactly what I plan to do. PCM from TV to DAC via toslink.
Interestingly I didn`t find OLED`s natural also and choose Philips 8 series instead. OLED`s seem too dark and artificial no matter what settings you choose. Plasma colors are much more real. I have Pioneer plasma myself in my apartment.
George thanks but when I say implementation I am talking about the total design.  The DHT DAC that I build has a 30lbs power supply.  A little different than the typical DAC chip or R2R implementation.  Tube rectification, tube rectifier, current limiting, etc.  Most people think I am showing them a power amp when they see it.

Digital Section:
Utilizing R-2R discrete resistors digital to analog converting topology
Clock Jitter RMS: 0.8ps typical
Jitter Reduction: FIFO Buffer and reClock with low jitter clock
Input SPDIF (RCA/XLR): Up to 24 bit/ 192 Khz
Input I2S PCM (HDMI): Up to 24 bit/ 384 Khz
Input I2s DSD (HDMI): Up to DoP128 and DSD256
Frequency Range: 20 hz to 20 Khz

Analog Section:
Frequency Range: 20 hz to 20 Khz
Tubes: 101D Direct Heated Tubes for output stage. 5AR4/GZ34, 6C45pi, 101D, OC2 tubes for high voltage regulator
Tube Buffer: Full Music or Psvane 101D Direct Heated Tubes with point-to-point direct wiring, utilizing transformer coupling between digital and analog sections to isolate digital noise.
Analog Power Supply: LC (double chokes and Clarity Polypropylene TC 600 capacitors) filtering with direct heated tube for high voltage regulation in shunt regulator configuration.
The DAC section and power supply section are in separate chassis.

Power Section
Power Input: 110V/220V 50/60 hz (factory pre-configured)
Output Capacitors: OIMP Oil Impregnated Metalized Polypropylene Audio V-Capacitors

 
Don't forget Metrum acoustics they are making there own chips 
Don’t forget Metrum acoustics they are making there own chips
I think maybe you mean discrete circuits, because chips are for the big boy manufacturers to make Analogue Devices, Burr Brown, AKM, ESS ect.

Cheers George
I picked up a Denafrips Ares after my USB-only Wavelength Brick was no longer enough for the TV and other devices that I wanted the best sound quality possible out of. I've been burning it in fully before trying any comparisons, but locally some guys have Yggys, a Holo Audio Spring Lvl 3, and some other DACs. Unlike the higher-end Denafrips DACs, the Ares does not have a non-oversampling mode (I mistakenly thought it did when I purchased it, though now I'm not bothered).
At some point in the next month I'll try to get some organized comparisons of the DAC with others. I'm definitely enjoying it in my home system.
At some point in the next month I'll try to get some organized comparisons of the DAC with others. I'm definitely enjoying it in my home system.
That'll be good to hear about.

Cheers George
The Analog Devices is a chip not descrete.

auxinput
03-10-2017 5:05pm
There's always the Analog Devices AD5791 that's used in the Schiit Yggdrasil. Granted, it's only 20 bit, but it's still a true R-2R ladder. And expensive at minimum $60 a pop.
Analog Devices AD5791

Made 2010 or even earlier, some talk was it was made for the US military for the guidance system of some type of surface to to air missiles, never intended for Audio use. I think the one in the AMR DP777 R2R multibit Dac was from a similar use.

Cheers George. 
This is not discrete, but still R2R Multibit   OMG!!!!!!!

120kg for a dac!!!!!

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/121803-aries-cerat-kassandra-r2r-dac-120kgs/

Cheers George
So I guess people here will start to think more caps, more resistor the better it sounds?