Well UCDMAC you asked an interesting question a year-and-a-half ago and were told yes fuses do matter, no fuses don't matter and everything in between. Did you ever try any fuses in your system? If so what's your opinion?
141 responses Add your response
I don't care if upgraded fuses work, that my attitude, so when I tried one and got it put in the right direction, it did make a difference. Now those who claim they see God with the change I would not go that far, but there was a difference in my McIntosh amp, the one thing I can say for sure flipping even the stock fuse around which was a ceramic one not a glass one in my McIntosh Amp made a difference, one direction sounded much better than the other direction. I do think from what I heard that Audiophile fuses are way overpriced, I used an SR Orange, now I see they have Purple which always kills every fuse they made before, that old sales pitch is getting old. Took them 3 years to develop a fuse, really? |
Clean, new common fuses in a pair of monoblock tube amps made a subtle improvement. Synergistic Research Red, Black and Blue (haven't tried the Orange) fuses made/make a HUGE difference. So much so, that the amp designer who detests tweaks, was awestruck and replaced the fuse holders with 5 amp breakers. Now his amps and mine sound very, very similar. The only tweak he approved of was removing the fuse itself. The reason I didn't do the same is that his breakers are NOS and may not be effective in case of fault. I also have an SR blue fuse on my moded Dynaco ST70 to great improvement. Another friend and I have tried an SR blue fuse on our EAR 864 preamps (not in my main system). Nope, sounds worse than the fuse that came with it. The EAR 890 amp also sounds great (5% difference between it and my custom monoblocks) using the fuse that came with it as well. My conclusion is that upgraded fuse changes are not always sonically effective. When they are effective, they can be a tremendous improvement in sound despite their "unreasonable" cost. I use Stillpoints for most of my equipment (Dyanco, monoblock amps, CD Transport, Pre-amp, phono amp, Bryston BIT20 isolation transformer, Blu-ray player). However, they don't make my COS DAC D2V or EAR 890 sound better (actually worse). Why, I don't know for certain. I do know that the DAC was designed with superior vibration isolation characteristics. |
WOW millercarbon - sorry to bruise your tender ego. Still, I’ll stick with the opinions and sound advise of those on here who actually build audio components (not $5K IC cables and power cords or $150.00 fuses and outlet covers) and the opinions of those who spent their lives in the studios and stages to make and produce the music we enjoy....Jim |
@jhills, I never claimed a startling difference and I’ve never advocated spending $147 on a fuse. What I have heard are more akin to tonal shifts, attenuated highs, an out of phase characteristic to the sound, etc. They were, however, significant enough that I kept on researching (something most audiophiles do) until I found the best fuse for my needs, never having to spend more than about $50 bucks per fuse. And, again, if a fuse’s job is just to protect and has no effect on the sound, then some small speck or mote on the contacts wouldn’t have an effect on the sound. Either the fuse works or it fails, by design, and stops any current. If that speck or mote has an effect on the sound, then a fuse with much better conductivity would, as well. Both ways argue better conductivity. All I can and will say, from now on, is: until you try it for yourself, you’re arguing in bad faith. All the best, Nonoise |
Lame. If you can't hear a difference just come out and say you can't hear a difference. If you can hear a difference and just don't think its worth the money then go ahead and say that. Either way is perfectly fine and allows you to maintain moral integrity. What you cannot do is what you are trying to do, pretend you are able to hear without ever taking a stand. You're criticizing using only the worst innuendo without ever taking a position, other than faking superiority. Which is vile. Just so you know. |
@nonoise I never said or implied that anyone needs regularly change out their fuses, but that if you changed out your old fuse and by some miracle heard a starteling difference by putting in one of the magic fuses. you would have heard the same difference by cleaning the contacts and putting in a standard new fuse and saved $147.00. v@millercarbon Have been at this game longer than you and I put my store in my own ears and in those on here who have actually spent their life/lives building and repairing electronics and those who have spent their lives in the recording and production business, who wouldn’t dream of spending $150.00 for a magic fuse or $1K+ per foot for any kind of cord or cable. Those who make a living at actually producing the music don’t have the time or money to waste on con games. So whatever it takes to please your super hearing - go for it....Jim |
Sorry guys, but who here honestly thinks that people are swapping out fuses as often as ICs or SCs. And, based on what you say, do you regularly go about opening up your gear and cleaning your fuse holders as often as you do your cable connections? I tried that years ago when first told it was just the contacts and guess what? Cleaning them revealed nothing. No dirt. No residue. Nothing like what one would find on RCA and speaker connections. I take a good look at those fuse holders when swapping fuses and they look brand new and nothing like RCA jacks and speaker connectors after 6 months, let alone 6+ years. I have to give you guys credit for imagination. This is all nothing but going in circles with the same old tired arguments. What you great minds of audio should do is stop wasting time haunting audio forum boards and figure out just how and why a fuse can contribute to the sound, because it does. All the best, Nonoise |
And so I made an ass of myself lecturing people on what can and cannot matter. So this has been a lifetime endeavor apparently. Wake up. Smell the coffee. And every other metaphor for abject cluelessness. In other words, get a clue. And the pleasant comradery is destined to continue into perpetuity. Has scolding one's way into greatness ever worked? |
Reading some of this blather takes me back. Hard to believe now but I make no secret of it, there was a time when I too was dumb and ignorant as a rock. Everything I believed it turned out later was just plain wrong. But being arrogant and inexperienced I believed it. And so I made an ass of myself lecturing people on what can and cannot matter. But being so determined to prove all these people wrong I also tried as hard as possible to prove myself right. So instead of just changing a fuse, or cable, or RCA, whatever, I cleaned the crap out of it and listened to that first. Which sure enough, more often than not if it hand’t been cleaned in a while it did sound slightly better for having been cleaned. I coulda been duped just like all the other schlubs but not me, smarter than your average bear! Not for long. Because then when the new fuse, cable, interconnect, power cord really did sound better, or even just different, well can’t use the stupid corrosion dirt story any more. That one is just gone. So this was like 30 years ago. In case any of you guys are wondering just how out of date you sound. Like freaking Rip Van Winkle. Its a whole new millennium. You’re not in Kansas any more. Wake up. Smell the coffee. And every other metaphor for abject cluelessness. In other words, get a clue. |
Interesting scenario, not a fuse, but the same point. Was just out watering and the hose connection, at the outdoor water faucet, was leaking - in spite of making sure the hose was screwed on tight. My wife brought me a new rubber washer, worth maybe 25 cents. I said this will never do, go to the HW store and see if you can find a really good one, costing maybe $50. or $100. She rolled her eyes, shook her head and said "just put it in". I pulled the old one out, put in the new 25 cent washer and voila, no leaks, not even a drip. I guess I’ll never know if a $100.00 washer would have made it not leak even more....Jim |
@audio2design You're right, a good connection is important. A hospital grade outlet receptacle is designed and built under strict quality standards and made to provide a secure and lasting contact. A hospital grade receptacle costs around $20.00, not $500.00. There is a point where claims of grander goes from function to plain BS.....Jim |
Hate to brake the news, but audio fuses and fuse holders have the same function and basic design as they have had for the past 40 years and any contact connection that is made to be removed or replaced is susceptible to oxidation and corrosion, including your cables, cords, wall plugs and switch contacts. Not sure where you're coming from on this one nonoise......Jim |
Maybe with something made at the turn of last century would moving a fuse around inside its holder make a difference. It would have to be poorly made, bordering on primitive. Never seen a fuse do what Georgie says with his summer vacation slide shows. All that supposed corrosion would be evident throughout the chassis and not just at one tiny point of contact where the fuse resides. Listen to yourselves. You're delusional and grasping at straws. Going one step further, how is it that a different fuse can't possibly contribute to the sound of an amp but just moving an existing fuse can, when all it's supposed to be is safety feature and not at all capable of affecting the sound? You can't have it both ways. All the best, Nonoise |
In most cases the difference you’ll hear by replacing old burned fuses with standard new replacement fuses or cleaning contacts, would be the same as putting in a $150.00 super fuse, but without the cost....Jim Ya got that right https://youtu.be/l886uQi6Rhg?t=48 |
Replacing a fuse or even twisting the existing fuse back and forth in its holder will make a difference, if the component has ben in service for a long period of time. As George pointed out, after many cycles of off and on, the electrode can burn and weaken. Also, after time, the contacts (just as with speaker cable connectors and IC cable connectors) may also become a bit oxidized or corroded and need cleaned, or at least twisted in the holder, to remove oxidation and improve contact. In most cases the difference you’ll hear by replacing old burned fuses with standard new replacement fuses or cleaning contacts, would be the same as putting in a $150.00 super fuse, but without the cost....Jim |
Well Holo Audio checks off every other snake oil claim w.r.t. May DAC (but can't figure out a buffer) so why not add fuses in there? Starting off with NOS at redbook rates is already a flawed presentation. I did get a kick out of their marketing. That was some seriously thick spreading of the brown stuff. https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/ |
I don't know, but I was wondering if high end manufacturers of audio components use high end fuses. I have McIntosh 601's. They are 10k + for the pair. You would think companies like this would have researched this potential improvement. Even if they dropped a couple hundred bucks more on a component and it made their product sound better than the competition, they would do it, and list it in their features. I don't remember any company doing this. But they may be trying to cut corners or just don't know about it. No, I haven't tried high end fuses, so that may disqualify me from this discussion. But if some high end companies (like McIntosh) try to weigh in here, ignore them, they probably have not tried them either. |
Naysayers should read some of the European reviews of aftermarket fuses where some countries mandate fuses in the housing of the mains lines plugs. Of every one I've read that was for a TV, they all reported improved TV performance, which can actually be seen. It's along the same lines as what I've seen with better AC cords and power conditioning. That, and all the qualifying statements from those who've yet to try it makes one wonder, why bother debating, for they'll never know and will always complain, using the same, tired points. And, it would be nice to see them stop using the medical analogy of placebo, since a placebo has no medicinal effect whatsoever when measured against a real drug and with any piece of audio gear, there actually is something of relative value and performance going up against what you're supposedly testing. In other words, they both work along the same lines for the intended purpose. One just happens to be better than the other. Leave the price of it out of the equation and they'll find themselves balancing on one leg. All the best, Nonoise |
I just putt an AMR. fuse in my Ultimate 70 Van Alstine two days ago. This was after I had put two into the tube preamp, I had it connected to. It also helped soundstage and tone. I have not gone beyond the 15 buck per fuse level. I can tell you I have been using them in sources also, for a couple years now. |
@robberjobberman My three blue SR fuses make a very significant upgrade over standard buss fuses in my custom tube amps and highly modified Dynaco ST70. However, they apparently make no difference in some equipment, including an EAR 864 preamp. Same with the power outlets. SR blue (black and red as well) outlets are superior to my former Hubbell hospital grade outlets. SR says it's the 2 million volts they subject these products to and graphene coating. I don't know but the proof is in the pudding. Wonderfully enhanced listening. I've given back two of SRs more expensive products as doing harm rather than good. However, I rely on SR's HFTs (32 in my main listening room) for acoustical treatment along with Hallographs and acoustic paneling. |
My issue with a lot of the tweaks, like designer fuses, is that the prices being charged are often absurd based upon actual production costs, and the dubious (at best claims) which which rarely include any actual evidence of efficacy. Kind of like most nutritional supplements-- where if there is any hard science, it virtually never supports the claims being made-- and as the studies pile up-- calls most of them into question. Again, placebo effects are very real, even though it's just a sugar pill. |
If someone spends north of $100 on a fuse, pops it in and hears a difference I have no doubt that person is telling the truth. But that does not mean the fuse actually did anything. All I can say is that when I make a system change I live with and at some point make a determination as to whether or not I think it sounds better. I’ve noticed with audio cables that cost above a few hundred dollars or so, price no longer determines quality or better sound any more than price makes one wine varietal taste better than another of the same varietal-- at a certain level of quality-- there’s just differences-- like the flavor notes between those wines, and you go with what you like. Is it better? To you maybe, but in truth, they're just differences, not better than or worse than. Some people that think a $100,000 amp is always better than a say $25,000 amp because of the difference in price. They are, IMO, deluding themselves because of the general prejudice that higher cost equals higher quality-- at a certain level in almost all things, it just ain’t so. A $100 fuse is not likely any better than a $3.00 fuse. |
You hit the nail on the head: arrogance. Rude, presumptive, ignorant and stubborn arrogance. Each adjective carefully chosen for accuracy. Rude: they butt in where no one wants to hear their blather yet again. Presumptive, they presume to tell us what we hear. Arrogant, what could be more arrogant than to tell another individual that YOU know what THEY can do. Ignorant, because virtually every single time they haven't tried and so literally do not know what they're talking about. And stubborn, because they keep at it no matter how many times or how clearly its explained they are full of it. You can see I've been around and have seen it replay over and over again like Groundhog Day without the humor. They just die over and over again, only never ever do they learn anything, and in the end they for sure don't get the girl. I just thought it worth pointing out that even a new guy with 7 posts can see clearly just what is wrong with them. Why they can't see it, that is the question. |
To whom it may concern: I trust what I hear. I do not have to "prove"anything to anybody, about anything. Several of you embark.on a mission to prove a negative. Good luck with that.. how do you "prove" what someone did or not hear?? Than you call someone else arrogant? wtf????, get real. Your results may vary..that does not trump; my experience. It only makes me believe, I am dealing with some kinda dolt. |
Okay so, about fuse upgrades. I have a HARD time believing in them. Setting aside the physics involved and the fact that they sit on the outside of the power supply, I noticed that they are heavily marketed by Synergistic Research -- which is a scam company. Why don't any large, reputable manufacturers produce fuses? Why doesn't, say, Furutech or Oyaide make them? That smells of scam. The other problem is...how do you test this without audio memory effects getting in the way? How many people have two identical amps they can test side-by-side in a reasonable fashion? The improvement would have be very large to overcome audio memory IMO. Will a fuse really provide such a major improvement? It just seems like a con to me. |
I would suggest they piss. Into the wind, instead.Ok so it deteriorated to this Suggest you get to know your own. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DubmFjaWwAARWwz.jpg Then you can https://thoughtcatalog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/headupass.jpg?resize=800%2C800&quality=95&... See if it fits https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/46402124.jpg |
Consciousness can be a real b!tch. Subjectivity is not objectivity. Your eyes and your ears can deceive you, especially if you want them to-- and when you invest time and money, most do want them to. Audio2design is probably right though. Cleaning dirty fuse connections and putting in a new fuse might make a difference. I'd bet he's right when he says his friends can't tell when put to the test. Your own ears can improve your system even if the fuse cannot. Imagine the possibilities?? And no money down! |
