Having had similar experiences, I share your frustration. You sound like a serious buyer and the seller has not treated you well. However, "a good convo with the seller" doesn't replace a firm offer. Your story didn't say that you had submitted an offer, but that you believed the seller had afforded you the opportunity to commit by the end of the day. In the absence of an offer, a seller can get frustrated and sell to a firm buyer, even below the asking price, if he thinks that a potential buyer is just tire kicking. It's best to just move on and try to avoid that "highly graded seller" in the future.
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However, "a good convo with the seller" doesn't replace a firm offer. Your story didn't say that you had submitted an offer, but that you believed the seller had afforded you the opportunity to commit by the end of the day. In the absence of an offer, a seller can get frustrated and sell to a firm buyer, even below the asking price, if he thinks that a potential buyer is just tire kicking.+1
From a buyer's perspective (you) we AGONers are sympathetic to you for a missed opportunity.....BUT.... It is tempered with certain limits that must include the seller's position.
Disappointing to you for sure but..... and it is a big "but".... Your post does not explain why the delay in your non-guaranteed buy commitment until later in the day.
It may have been a noble reason for you, but frankly, it matters little to seller without a refundable deposit from you to "seal the deal " and hold it for you. That deposit , say instant through PayPal, would automatically predicate seller to contact you FIRST after a a new competing offer for immediate full payment or "sayonara".
A refundable deposit to hold means something in an audio form member honor system. Many of us as sellers have been burned by a buyer who first promises the world with enthusiasm and even informally asks for concessions; but then he inexplicably craps out and fails to complete the deal after a lengthy time-wasting dialogue exercise. Once it happens to you, it's likely the very last time that, as seller, you will expose yourself again to that piss-off from anybody.
In simple words, first come with the cash = first served... Full stop.
From a seller's perspective, I cannot criticize any seller's viewpoint that "in God we trust, everybody else pays cash!". Those rules are clearly understood, full stop again. A refundable deposit from you - even a nominal $100 - would support a "hold". Without it, I would not "hold" it for a stranger either.
Seller is not your friend, he doesn't know you, don't expect seller to care about you past selling his kit, because this is just a simple bulletin board for HIS QUICKEST completed sale for the best offer.
akg_ca561 posts03-05-2016 9:47amFrom a buyer's perspective (you) we AGONers are sympathetic to you for a missed opportunity.....BUT.... It is tempered with certain limits that must include the seller's position.+1
Should take EBM's advice ... Jump at it NOW!!!!!!! Buy it ASAP!!!!! Do not pass Go!!!!!! Do not collect $200!!!!! What a MARON!!!!!!!
I get it. BUT, I said I would let him know before day's end. I did and placed the offer at our agreed price before time ran out. Why the delay? I was struggling with a nasty, nasty cold and was communicating at work between appointments. Stated he would hear by EOD. Placed the offer that evening. He usually responded quickly to messages. Not this time. If an offer came in, a courtesy chance to match or better it would have been nice. Didn't happen. That simple action could/should have been done. Plain and simple. Our convo's involved solid questions and exchanges. I wasn't dicking around. Finally heard back 14 HOURS later that someone swooped in. 14 hours and he couldn't send a heads up. I probably would have matched or bettered the swooper. But he stated "it wasn't about the money"
Yes, they aren't your "friend" but I deal daily with clients who aren't friends but at the end of the day I rest peacefully knowing that I treated them all fairly. Doing the right thing can get you burned on occasion but it NEVER stops me from doing it again. That's just the way I roll. "Treat others as you want to be treated". That slowly helps to make the world a better place.
Life goes on.
Drpat, I see absolutely NO reason why you needed to wait until the end of the day to make a decision other than to mull over whether or not you wanted to make the deal or not. Why should the seller feel obligated to such uncertainty, on a promise that you will let him know? I wonder how many times a dealer hears that. I am no dealer but I’ve heard it many times, this is not uncommon. There is a difference between promise and commitment and it has nothing to do with being treated fairly. I’m sorry but your analogy to your clients is completely different. You DO have a business relationship with them and therefore an obligation, in this case there is no obligation on either side.
Let’s look at this deal from the seller’s perspective. Yes, you had good communication and yes, you promise that you will let him know one way or another by EOD. But before EOD a solid offer arrives. Should the seller tell the committed buyer at that point to hold on until "I receive word back from a guy that "promised" me he would get back to me by the end of the day. Seriously? This is business and it happens everyday The seller is a businessman and absolutely did not act in bad faith. He just acted in a manner that is probably quite routine to him on a daily basis. I think if your position is "I treat my clients fairly" and by inference the seller did NOT treat you fairly is in itself naive and unreasonable. A commitment will trump a promise with anyone that is in business and used to dealing with a fickle public, particularly audiophiles :), lesson learned should be, don’t hesitate on your first instinct!
You do not mention if the ad had a "buy it now" option or not. It it did, and the other person chose that option, you are out of luck. I agree with others here though. Too many times, I have had an eager potential buyer back out on a promise to buy. The first one to make a firm offer through the system, and have that offer accepted, gets the product.
As stated people I get it. Sorry for the mini vent. Perhaps I am "ticked" at myself. Though I still wonder about that 14 hour gap. Surely it afforded time to alert me that another player was involved. When I placed the offer it was still open for sale. No buy it now option. That is what perplexes me. Again, life goes on.
These things happen, it's a jungle out there, and there are no rules of engagement. I have had sellers and buyers back out on their word to me.
Money talks, bullshit walks.
That said, if it were me, I probably would have given you the heads up, hoping to start a bidding war over my wares. Though if someone else did just hit the "Buy it Now" button, then maybe he had no choice.
As @gshepardbuster says: The good news if you keep looking here daily it is very likely to find another of the same product:)
@drpat, You say you get it, but your next statements shows that you really don't.
As soon as "good conversations" ensue you need to conclude them with either:
A) Here is my firm offer good for X amount of time. Ready to pay now.
B) I'd like to mull it over until the end of the day, so will you accept $100 refundable deposit NOW via paypal to hold it until the end of the day and give me right to match other incoming offers.
or C) I'd like to mull it over and will get back to you by day's end, and I accept the risk that you might accept another firm offer(maybe even at a lower price) if one comes in.
Expecting anything more from the seller isn't reasonable nor to be expected from most sellers here, not even those you know personally.
Good luck on the next one! Guessing you'll find a better deal. Cheers,
From a SELLERS perspective.....I honor the 1st person who pays the money....Period! And I don’t take promises in any way . From a BUYERS perspective If I have paid the money I would expect to receive the item. One time here on Audiogon I sent payment via cashiers check and after 10 days I never received Item, but after I complained to the seller, I DID get my money back. Very strange indeed.
Sorry to hear about your frustrations but as stated throughout this post you are dead wrong. If you wanted the item you should have stepped up and bought it, period. Mulling it over means you were still unsure, someone else knew what he wanted and made the deal. I have been on this site for over 15 years and have learned the hard way that if you want something just step up and buy it or you will loose it. And as a seller all potential buyers all too frequently back out or the person simply disappear. When a firm offer comes in I take it.
I have become particularly leery of people who like to play 20 questions with the item I am selling. OK a few questions about the item is fine but the longer it continues the less likely that person is going to buy it and is just looking for information. So next time act faster. If you still want that piece of gear put out a "wanted" posting. Remember the next best deal is always just around the corner.
I'm sorry to hear about your disappointment, but from the seller's perspective I'd say "bird in hand" will usually trump an email offering to buy.
When I sold my last amp, I must have gone back and forth with a guy for at least a week, even discussed where to meet him (he didn't trust UPS), then got a bit of a low-ball offer, when I countered, he accepted and paid right away.
The emailer was really disappointed, but I wasn't going to ignore a solid offer.