If you know that a user is a dealer and they fail to disclose and attacks other users because they make a point against their interest, do you expose the user?
I know of a gentleman here that continuously posts and goes after people and does not disclose who he is.
General proclaiming dogma means nothing, what is better theoretically like a magneplanar speaker compared to many box speakers indeed , can be worst than a box speaker... The reason why is called acoustic science...
Guess why ? Because it seems you are born with innate knowledge....
Acoustic dont change the merit of speakers types nor their intrinsic limitations for sure but help a lot ...
Then claiming that all box speakers are equals in all room and all piece of shit
means only shit claim...And total ignorance of acoustic principle that are able to help even some basic box speakers that are acceptable design to be more than acceptable...
The only good box speaker is no box speaker.
life is not simple and not the consequence of a magic formula save by God...
Acoustic science is more complex to study than review about some speakers branded name type ...
And there is too much good box speakers to trash all of them ...
Before all my tuning of the speakers, so good they are well spoken of in all reviews with no negative criticism at all, they not impress me in my nude non controlled room and with no mechanical or electrical noise floor control 5 years ago... After my Tannoy especially, which were on another design quality level...
But with all my work they sound very well better than anything i listen to even magneplanar in a non tretated and non controlled room and even my past Tannoy..
Upgrading seems foolishness to me... They are not the best speaskers at all for sure but the piano is there in my room...It is enough...
Mechanical and electrical control is great improvement, but acoustic is the only key to audio in small room..Not thebranded name of the speaker... I dont trust anyone vouching for a brand in audio... Guess why?
Too many good brand anyway for all many tastes ans needs...
People dream about 100,000 amplifier price tag without even knowing how to create a room for them... Think about that.... 😁😊
If i judge the results with youtube limittations for sure no costly gear is for me not even necessary at all...
Acoustic rule....
But suppose i am right and that all consumers know that truth ?
It will be the downfall of electronic engineering market evolution ... I dont want this fall, electronical design improvement is a good thing and small business need this profit margin to do their research... And most people are unable to do their time consuming acoustic homework anyway.... Most people really think that they listen to their gear not to the room...
But i will tell you a secret, Acoustic alone is the key... Dont repeat it....
mahgister I’m glad you tried loaded mass speaker isolation, I’m guessing you’re glad also??!!
Isn’t that the truth, there’s no escaping it, the best that can be expected is to use engineering control measure to lesson it as much as possible.
One way, the way I was shown, is to divide the larger surface areas into smaller nodes, this attenuation to specific nodes hopefully lessens the amplitude of the energies and divides the panels into smaller zones. The differential bracing should never be evenly spaced, creating multiple nodes not relatively close to the same frequency of another.
Just as using the same drivers to accomplish more SPL for the same frequencies, these cabinet nodes will sum to produce more cabinet resonances. Divide and conquer isn’t a joke when bracing an enclosure.
mahgister I’m glad you tried loaded mass speaker isolation, I’m guessing you’re glad also??!!
My system has come leaps and bounds since I’ve been learning from forum members here. The importance of all sorts of things I’d never really considered important have become the most transformative things I hear working, by taking out the sonic trash so to speak.
I'm going to quibble with this because the self-described "objectivists" here are often anything but. I think it is more accurate to call them measurementalists. They pretend to know how things sound without ever actually listening to them, will insist that they know what you can or cannot hear in your own room, and cling to their beliefs with a fundamentalist's religious fanaticism.
I plan to do it ONLY if i must sell my actual house when the mother of my wife will die... I hope it will take years...
My speakers are heavily modified like my room is...
The S.Q. is very good for me...
But i dont want to do the work of reloading them and fine tuned them again with the springs and all the devices i used on them if i am not in the obligation to do it...
I will be in this situation when i would go in another house anytime soon or not, i dont know when ...
But i planned to reload and retune them with this tool at this time to better fine tune my 2 sets of springs which are compressed with different load above and on top... In my experience even under 100 grams of load of the near 80 pounds of concrete make an audible difference... It takes me few days to tune them..
For now the speakers seems very good on this count...not perfect but good...
All speakers had resonance...
@mahgister - if you ever use the sweep and play with the mass on top of your speakers to tune the load, I’d love to read your findings?
And of course, as you share, always welcome that I can share something of benefit to you sir.
@mahgister- if you ever use the sweep and play with the mass on top of your speakers to tune the load, I’d love to read your findings?
And of course, as you share, always welcome that I can share something of benefit to you sir.
Thanks for this free interesting tool test for speakers...
It prove that my speakers were not bad at all...
One day it would be interesting to test my speakers before my damping anti resonant double set of dyssimetrically compressed springs use and after...
@tomic601 - thanks, I think?? Ha. I know I’m opinionated, I am here also to learn from this forum. And so, I thank you all (even the ones who may not like what I write) if there’s something I have or can learn from you, when I am ready to receive new/better knowledge.
I was introduced to an excellent test of speaker cabinets from my old boss and friend, he played a frequency sweep through a pair of reasonably well regarded mid priced speakers and you could hear the multiple node breakouts the enclosures made throughout the sweep. Astonishing to discover exactly where (frequencies) the cabinets exhibited distortion in playback.
@tomic601- thanks, I think?? Ha. I know I’m opinionated, I am here also to learn from this forum. And so, I thank you all (even the ones who may not like what I write) if there’s something I have or can learn from you, when I am ready to receive new/better knowledge.
I was introduced to an excellent test of speaker cabinets from my old boss and friend, he played a frequency sweep through a pair of reasonably well regarded mid priced speakers and you could hear the multiple node breakouts the enclosures made throughout the sweep. Astonishing to discover exactly where (frequencies) the cabinets exhibited distortion in playback.
Not sure who you are directing your comment to, but if me and a little Joe Besser/Lou Costello humor is too much for you oh well.And, if you are directing it to me please direct me to what other thread I allegedly hosed.
"They pretend to know how things sound without ever actually listening to them, will insist that they know what you can or cannot hear in your own room, and cling to their beliefs with a fundamentalist’s religious fanaticism."
No, that is not an opinion, that is a statement purporting to be a fact. I think that its abundantly clear that it is information of a misleading nature. (how's that for a euphemism?)
Live example of "agenda" is a thread that is updated on a daily basis of a certain obscure brand of DAC. (I think they try to keep it alive, with the same 3-4 people). The moment someone posts facts about the manufacturer or dealers, 2 posters immediately jump in with response to protect. This has happened multiple times. I have not seen users protect brands and threads so seriously.
Do you really sweep all objective thinking members here into your facile little box with “ They pretend to know how things sound without ever actually listening to them”
Certainly not! I never suggested any such thing. Here’s what I wrote:
... the self-described "objectivists" here are often anything but ...
- Well I pick no bones about having an objectivist approach to some things in my system, things I understand (or like to think I understand). I’m not merely stating this to be contentious, I’m sharing a difference of opinion.
Measurements for me and many here, are important metrics, tools if you will, to understand the system (which includes the room). There are some of us here who have taken measurements in order to better understand nodes in their rooms, for example. When narrowing down choices I often inspect the specifications of potential devices and technologies in order to find more suitable solutions.
I’m still learning about room acoustic treatment techniques myself, I’m certainly not discounting the merit of measurement to make informed decisions on how to proceed.
I’m also not excluding the facts that misinformation can be used to sell, using metrics that are isolated from others, to the unsuspecting. For example, a speaker that has it’s crossover designed to cover up resonant frequency nodes in the enclosure, when you sum it’s measurable output, is quite linear, but sounds awful (there is always reasons one metric looks great and yet the synergy fails). Or the handover of frequencies between two drivers, and instead of excluding driver breakup in the frequencies of energies it’s fed, simply mask the issue with the other drivers. Distortion also presents SPL and if that’s summed in as output, another reason to sound awful. A Rubik’s cube is not solved when one, two or three sides appear to be correct and so refining a highly resolving system requires more than good luck.
Clearly understanding an order and hierarchy of measurements as a whole can help to fine tune and correctly re-create optimal outcomes. Trial and error is convenient, understanding the mechanics of how it works synergistically is powerful information, when put to work can yield better performance both in metrics and subjectively, IMO.
@sokogearmy brothers and I tried to excel at emulation of the Minister for funny walking, and tried to create new funny walks of our own. The Python boys were bloody marvelous - Bruce!
There no proof this guy ted delete thread. It could have been complain from angry guy on this thread. There way too much anger in thread lead me believe there addict here ready come clean and free energy be positive go forward. I hear and we lead exorcism drag angry devil from soul one and for all. I no defend Ted guy he seem maybe little rude people too maybe he come clean too.
Do you really sweep all objective thinking members here into your facile little box with “ They pretend to know how things sound without ever actually listening to them”
Are you seriously suggesting that these folk don’t actually listen to their systems on an organic, corporeal level … Utterly Pathetic
You would be better off educating the folks here by explaining how you developed the products you sell and how they can help improve the sound of the reader’s systems.
not really - on his website all he does is demonstrate that he hasn’t got a friggin’ clue what ‘quantum tunnelling’ actually is, but that magic Q word sells stuff..
associating bad pseudo-science with subjectivism only weakens its stance. If your cables sound good, they sound good, no need for fairy tales..
As for the lies about me taking down my threads, this is false as I have proven with the links above.
so you leaned on the mods just like I alleged - same outcome, makes no difference Ted.
YOU REMOVED THE POSTS, using a third party instead of an iPhone.
And we all know why.
At no time was I pushing my products, but rather, making it obvious the fallacies inherent in the objectivist approach.
This is total BS, and the advertorial platforms disguised as threads you removed contained evidence of you doing exactly that, hence. you scurrying to the mods to get them nuked once this thread started gaining momentum,
Pathetic Ted, pathetic. It’s people like you who give subjectivists a really bad rap and make us an easy target for objectivist propaganda. We don’t need people like you out there putting profit before ethics. Get you cash machine off our bandwagon..
High End audio is all about the subjective enjoyment of our systems, that’s what this hobbies is about for most of us.
That is certainly true, @ted_denney. It's only odd that it needs to be periodically stated.
But for the objectivist mob, High End Audio is about mocking and ridiculing real audiophiles ...
I'm going to quibble with this because the self-described "objectivists" here are often anything but. I think it is more accurate to call them measurementalists. They pretend to know how things sound without ever actually listening to them, will insist that they know what you can or cannot hear in your own room, and cling to their beliefs with a fundamentalist's religious fanaticism.
Thanks for the sketch and for saying it better than me ...
It is not objective or subjective....objective can give you a guideline for what you subjectively should be hearing/appreciating. Only listening without understanding the specs is ridiculous, as is not listening and only going by specs.
This is a ridiculous argument. It reminds me of Monty Python to tell you the truth.
Enjoy one of the funniest sketches of all time. everyone needs to lighten up.
It is not objective or subjective....objective can give you a guideline for what you subjectively should be hearing/appreciating. Only listening without understanding the specs is ridiculous, as is not listening and only going by specs.
This is a ridiculous argument. It reminds me of Monty Python to tell you the truth.
Enjoy one of the funniest sketches of all time. everyone needs to lighten up.
This bring tear of joy to my heart that we come to deep understand that one guy never admit real reason was to marketing. Just get get name like nickel pickle on account and try make world better place if no care for recognize. I have neighbor daughter untie me to write this I go now.
How many millenia do you need to understand that yes the subjective impression is the end judge, this is ONLY a common place fact, BUT the PROCESS to CORRELATE electronical and electrical measures in a designing process is necessary and more than that the ACOUSTICAL process of fine tuning a room need a continuous CORRELATION between our ears/brain and the OBJECTIVE acoustic content measures and size of the devices in the room... ?
It is what i did myself in my "silly" room, whose photos were your only argument to discredit what i called Helmholtz method... Ad hominem attack....
The fact that you refused to adress this and go on opposing subjectivist against objectivist push the same stupid ideological audio useless and completely wrong war for MARKETING REASON...
You stir a pot and try to ridiculize me my friend and that i cannot accept it instead of arguments...
Subjectivist and objectivist division made no sense whatsoever...
Subjectivist sit on their ass listening their system and judging it good for their taste WITHOUT never adressing the process of correlating their acoustical perceptions with the OBJECTIVE content of the room.. They idolized their costly gear and tweaks and toys too much...
Objectivist measure a dac for example and declare it good or bad WITHOUT ever recognizing the huge power over our impression of the room acoustic and without recognizing in our own knowledge our very limitation about the known relation between electrical measures and acoustical measures and correlated acoustic perceived SUBJECTIVE impression...They idolized their measuring tools too much...
Objectivist and subjectivist are two groups created by market conditioning... And you go on with that for your own marketting reason ... Simple...
Educating people is not the same as selling a device... Acoustic principle are the key to audio not the gear and the tweaks ONLY and MAINLY...
No need to answer this post of mine, like usual post my virtual page... 😁😊😊😊😊
Make a fool of yourself....
At no time was I pushing my products, but rather, making it obvious the fallacies inherent in the objectivist approach.
@mitch2while I appreciate your kind tone, you’re one of the ones that tends to attack unless a simplistic numerical answer is given to a complex subjective observation. The purpose of my threads was to get people to think, as well as establish a consensus which I have done, most people agree it’s what our stereos sound like, and not the measurements, that matter most. At no time was I pushing my products, but rather, making it obvious the fallacies inherent in the objectivist approach. As for the lies about me taking down my threads, this is false as I have proven with the links above.
If I knew you and were your friend, I would try and take your shovel away.
You really should stop digging and try a restart. As a manufacturer representing your products, you are not doing yourself any favors. You would be better off educating the folks here by explaining how you developed the products you sell and how they can help improve the sound of the reader's systems. Not everyone would buy in, and some would certainly share opposing points of view, but it would be way more interesting and productive than the painful train-wreck this has become.
No option to delete threads. The same people dog piling in this discussion, are the users with hidden identities and not so hidden agendas. High End audio is all about the subjective enjoyment of our systems, that’s what this hobbies is about for most of us. But for the objectivist mob, High End Audio is about mocking and ridiculing real audiophiles, anyone who has spent any time here understands what I’m talking about. And we can see the bad actors here plain as day.
I will be posting screenshots of emails of my threads being taken down by AudiogoN mods so yet again, the objectivist mob is wrong.
I've been a member of this site since 2006 and have seen all kinds of posters come and go. There have always been individuals making money by guiding conversations, pitching products, and placing their contact information in threads. I've been contacted through PM by owners, distributers, and dealers. This is the great land of warm calling. Granted the site was created to sell used gear, so they likely get a buyer that wants a discount, but the audio forums are cash cows, and I'm sure must be a part of the marketing plan for many in the business.
The reality is many users do not like being pitched, and clearly observe the behaviors and patterns. Many users are supporting their "friends" too. It never seemed to be the intent of the forum in the good old days and things change. There is no shortage of people to call out this behavior, and it must be more difficult for the people in this industry to navigate the rough waters, as seen here live this morning.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
