Von Schweikert VR-6 or Wilson Audio Watt/Puppies 5

Dear friends,
I am on the second hand market for speakers with a budget of about $ 4-5 k. The shortest list I made puts a real dilemma: Von Schweikert VR 6 or Wilson Watt/Puppies 5,1. They will be driven by low power Push/Pull tube amplifier (Audio Note). Will be used mostly for rock and roll, pop, classic and jazz.
No experience with Wilsons, but I have noticed that while the audio press seems to generally praise the Wilsons, many posters on audio forums seem to be less enamoured with them from show reports and dealer experiences.
The Wilson's mid-bass impedance drop to 2.4 ohms is difficult for a low-power tube amp. It's not much different from the W3/P2 I owned for years. It sounded appealing on a 5W SET except for wimpy dynamics and loose bass. Even 75 wpc tube amp was underwhelming in this regard. Nice tonality for near-field listening at modest volume level, but far from ideal for a larger room or R&R.
Whoa, the VR-6 is 96 dB efficient! That is impressive. Barring anything strange in the impedance plots, I imagine that it would work great with the type of amp you describe.
The VR-6 also has a nominal impedance of 4ohms. Who knows how low the impedance dips while playing real music?

Two very different sounding speakers. The VR-6 is smooth and very forgiving of upstream electronics while the Wilson is very transparent, analytical and ruthlessly revealing.

Will the new Von Schweikert Audio even service or support the VR-6 if needed?
Thanks for giving me tips. Will check about the service but frankly don't believe there is still any about the VS. For Wilsons would be easier. However it seems most of you tend to recommend the Schweikerts.
Not sure where the question about service for Von Schweikerts comes from. I have VR-4 Gen IIs and Von Schweikert still provides service for them. Von Schweikert also offers upgrades for older models that allow them to approach the performance of newer models. If you have concerns about this, I'd recommend calling or e-mailing Von Schweikert. I have had some lovely conversations with Albert when calling with questions about these older VR-4s that I have.

As for their ability to be driven by a low power push pull tube amp, the question of impedance dips on the VR-6 is a good one, but I do see that VR-6's specs page lists the minimum power as 5W RMS (max is 500W, should you so choose).
I sold my VR5-Anniversaries several months ago to make way for new speakers. I moved my VR-6 speakers from my bedroom system into my main system for the interim. I'm amazed how good they sound with great detail, top end speed & openness, and robust, extended bass. They have the VSA quality of musicality, neutrality, and wide & deep soundstaging. The woofers don't have the same level of speed & control compared with the VR-5/VR-9/VR-11 magnesium woofers, but of course they're much less expensive. I don't have experience with the Wilsons, but the VR-6's have definitely passed the long-term satisfaction test with me.
Regarding service for the VR6's, give Albert a call. I'm sure they'll be happy to maintain these speakers.

As for power, I'm driving them with a pair of modified Kronzilla DM monoblocks. These use the T-1610 tubes biased conservatively to produce 45 watts per channel. These SET output tubes will drive the VR6's to any volume to which I care to subject myself.

I find the VR6's to also be very revealing of upstreamm electronics, cables, etc. I once had loaned my Masterbuilt power cords to a friend, so was using Shunyatas. When I got them back and got my system set up, it just didn't sound right. I had accidentally not connected one of the Materbuilt powercords to the PS Audio DAC-II (instead to another secondary component). Once I switched powercords on the DAC, the problem was solved. That's pretty revealing.
Did you ever hear Watt Puppies? If not, DO NOT BUY THEM UNHEARD. They are an acquired taste.
VSRs are pretty good and I don't think they will offend you.
IMO the wilson is`nt a good match for your low power tube amps and may likely lead to disappointment.I`ve not heard the VR-6 speaker but based on the comments posted so far it seems a better choice with your amplifier.
I never heard any Wilson playing superior with low powered amps. Their advertising suggests they do, but they don't. A lot of energy is lost in their X-over.
I have experience with both speakers and IMHO the Von Schweikert's are a much better speaker. The quality built into these speakers is amazing. Carbon fiber mids, rear ambience tweeters, 400 lb. cabinets in todays market would probably be $30,000. They are pretty and a giant statement at the same time. They are very heavy and hard to ship, but so worth it. You will see Wilson's for sale here all the time, but you only see VR6's for sale every 2-3 years if that.
I have experience with both. The Von Schweikerts are more of a statement speaker. They can fill any room with great sound. The same tweeter as the Wilson's, but also another same rear ambience tweeter that really helps. Twin carbon fiber mids and 400 lb. cabinets of real wood along with twin woofers and incredible crossovers and 96 db efficient! You can find Wilsons all the time on Audiogon ,but may only see the VR6's used once every few years. I guess you know which I would buy.
Thanx a lot. I think all of you guys are going the same direction. No more doubts. Remarquable and rare unanimity here in A-gon. Didn't think it is possible when audiophiles speak about components.
You made it easy.Your amp will sing with the right speaker,the Wilson is`nt a good impedance load match at all.
I've owned the VR6 a long time ago and sold them to a friend who still uses them. He also drives them with a low powered push pull tube amp (cayin).
Those speakers were quite good at its time but I thing for 4-5 K you can get a better sounding speaker either brand new or a mint one.
Duomike, I would be interested in hearing what you would recommend at that price point.
Duomike, Roscoeiii took my question. I am very interested, please.
sorry, can't give any recommendations. I would start a new thread asking for speaker suggestions for your particular amp, budget etc.
once a year I get to hear my friends VR6. They still look gorgeous but I feel they sound so dynamically compressed but maybe I'm spoiled in terms of dynamics cause I'm using highly modded avantgarde omega duos. good luck in your search!
With Von Schwikert's, keep the deposit and dont deliver the product to the consumer, I'd think that you might want to reevaluate your position.
He does, that is Albert Von Schweikert...take deposits and not deliver. I personally collected $30K for a person to buy speakers...which were never delivered. This man makes no excuse, he simply hides behind state lines...he's a crook...he commits interstate fraud.
Do not...DO NOT: Send this man money...he lies, he cheats, he's anathema to all that is good about audio...
Buyer Beware of this man...conrad johnson is to Albert Von Schweikert...as the United States is to...ok, go ahead, pick the one who's the worst....
Your agenda is pretty clear and off point. There are literally hundreds of VSA customers that have had very positive experiences with Albert, including myself.

You sound like a dealer, but don't see any such disclosure. Now who is misleading? Before you slander a manufacturer on a public forum, you might consider the consequences of your self-serving statements.

I'm surprised the Audiogon censors even allowed your slanderous diatribe to get posted. Wow.
I was very interested of what Larry said so I investigated a bit in the forum. Larry is in the business indeed but I saw from his threads that in his CV he has experience of working for VSA. Perhaps the problem lies here.
Nik- I'm afraid the problem lies with Larry. If you investigate him a little further, you will find a long track record of less than honorable dealings with a number of people, including Thiel and VSA. I believe he worked for VSA for 3 months in late 2003, apparently long enough to alledgedly appropriate some speaker blueprints from them, which were never returned.

I don't know the man and I have nothing personally against him. But I too did a little bit of research.

What I found was not good at all, at least insofar as his dealings with VSA are concerned. After he was asked to leave VSA, Larry apparently started selling speakers derived from those blueprints above, under his own LSA label. That also didn't end well for Larry. This is from my brief research - I do not have first-hand knowledge of this and a number of other things I discovered, since I wasn't there.

Importantly, I would not have felt compelled to reveal any of this about Larry Staples had he not so viciously attacked my friend, AVS, in his post above. I too was curious and I'm speaking up again because of what I discovered, and to vouch for the integrity and honesty of AVS.
I have dealt with Albert over and over and he is a top notch guy who builds as good or better speaker than anyone out there. I have sent him money plenty of times and he always comes through and in a big way. Mr. Lrsky must have an agenda. Come clean and spill your guts sir instead of playing games.
This thread is funny.
Knowing that Albert Von Schweikert has multiple Audiogon pseudonyms and uses them to ask AND answer questions, I'm not sure if these last two, might not be some of his.
As a matter of fact, I will assure you that Fplanner2000 is one of those pseudonyms.
For the record:
The Customer in question was Mike Gorrell to be specific. The year was 2003, about the time I orchestrated the CES for AVS.
I was able to get 8 Manufacturers to put up $5K each and go into a Ballroom at the CES that year, for AVS.
He appointed me President Emeritus. No pay, but I was able to capture $40K for a room.
It was a good show.
Later, an old customer Mike Gorrell, wanted a great pair of loudspeakers. His father had passed away, he had inherited millions, and he asked me to intercede and procure a great pair.
Albert had made noises about creating the pair like he had shown at the Vegas Show. I ordered them for Mike.
We sent Albert $30K as I recall for a $60K pair of his latest and greatest.
He never supplied them...didn't even address the issue.
Mike, tragically died in early 2004 without ever having received the speakers.
Harry Pearson, the legendary writer for 'The Absolute Sound' knowing me somewhat, warned me of AVS. I kept asking him for some review or acknowledgement of AVS and he kept warning me of him. I didn't listen...was not ready to believe him. Sadly, it turned out to be true.
The world of Audio is strewn with honorable and not.
AVS is not worthy of receiving a deposit.
Cash and carry is the only way I'd buy from him...not that I would.
Good luck.
I don't even know you, but I am no "pseudonym" for anyone else, and a lot of people know who I am. What an ignorant thing to say. Your "assurances" are obviously worthless, much like the rest of your fable.