Tried looking at them? Lyra Delos, open body, hardly anything comes near the vinyl but the stylus. Ortofon, great big plastic body running right next to the record. DYODD on static, everything from shape to construction, the Ortofon is gonna be worse.
Zero-Stat, Static-Guard anti-static spray, increase humidity if you can.
tzh21y, static is caused by rubbing, the stylus rubbing the groove. I can't see how an Ortofon stylus would rub a groove a whole lot differently than the Lyra stylus. The size of the stylus and the tracking force might make a difference. But, what is probably happening is the naked metal body of the Delos is probably grounded and is discharging the record as it goes. If you can get the room absolutely dark and use loops you might even be able to see little sparks jumping from the record to the cartridge like a mini Van de Graaff generator. All the devices and sprays that discharge the record are not much help because as soon as you start playing the record static electricity is generated and dust starts flying to the record. Just like the Lyra you have to discharge the record while it is playing. Get one of these, https://www.sleevecityusa.com/Antistatic-Record-Cleaning-Arm-p/tac-01.htm The brush is conductive carbon and the arm's base is connected to ground. It will also sweep any incidental dust out of the way. A little finicky to set up but once it is you don't have to touch it. I have a felt pad carpet taped to the turntable and give the brush a clean before each play. If the brush stops tracking well just clean it with alcohol and it will bounce right back. If you use this and a dust cover your records will stay pristine forever.
Huh? I always thought static electricity was produced by the vinyl record rubbing against air molecules as it spins. Also static electric charge is often transferred to the vinyl from the sleeve when withdrawing the record. Anti-static fluids and brushes can be used on vinyl. Nordost has one for audiophiles, some store bought sprays or towelettes are OK, too.
Do like many of the old timers would do when static was a problem. Play the record damp or wet. It works. I know many who always play their vinyl wet. Works. My dear audio buddy has been doing that for fifty years now.
norman, yes that will work but is a bit messy. Geoffkait with two fs you have that backwards. The record transfers the charge to the sleeve. Sleepwalker has it right. The most effective way to control static is to discharge it as soon as it is formed with a conductive sweep arm. Everybody I have set up with one would not live without it. You can buy 4 of them for the price of one Zerostat.
One of my turntables has a bad problem with static and I used a deerskin mat that Eliminated it very well. I agree with Geof in doubting that much static is coming from your cartridge. Maybe try a zerostat gun. They work very well.
Possibly the two phono cartridges differ in the degree to which the body and/or the cantilever of the cartridge is grounded, thereby making one of them more likely to dissipate static charge vs the other. I agree with Geoff that the rubbing of the stylus against the vinyl has been shown NOT to be a major cause of static electricity build-up, but charge can be removed by devices that are in a way similar to a cartridge.
Wow guys, anybody here know how a Van de Graaff generator works? What do you do when you want to shock your little sister....hows about rub your feet on the carpet. I'll leave it to you science nerds to look up why FRICTION causes static. Now I wonder where the friction is in a record playing system. A grounded platter will work only if the mat is conductive. Most are not. All metal platters that I know of are grounded but there are an awful lot of plastic ones out there. Just having a grounded spindle will not work. Anyway, I must be a miracle worker as not a single one of my records has any noticeable static charge on it. Maybe it is just magic.
mijostyn Wow, guys, anybody here know how a Van de Graaff generator works? What do you do when you want to shock your little sister....hows about rub your feet on the carpet. I’ll leave it to you science nerds to look up why FRICTION causes static. Now I wonder where the friction is in a record playing system.
>>>>>Oh, you mean like the platter belt friction? Or maybe you mean the friction between the air molecules and the vinyl? I hope you don’t mean the stylus friction which is very low as long as geometry is correct.
I’m no expert in these matters, but from my day to day experience static build up has nothing to do with the cartridge or even the plateau material or grounding. It all depends on the record itself.
I use three different turntables with copper, rubber, leather and/or cork mats and over 20 different cartridges and it’s ALWAYS the same discs that are static. I really have no idea why, but my guess is it has something to do with either the vinyl compound or the manufacturing process. The most annoying static occurs with those thin 70’s and 80’s pressings (Philips and DGG seem to be the worst offenders) and modern reissues. Pressings from the 50’s and 60’s are rarely a problem. One more reason why I prefer these pressings.
BTW all my records go through the same cleaning procedure and are all stored in the same Nagaoka anti-static inner sleeves.
Geoffkait, you have to be kidding. I must be that gullible. Why does a tonearm skate? Oh I suppose you are one of those that does not believe in anti skating. What does geometry have to do with it? VTF maybe. Does a turntable belt rub against the record? This must be an alternative universe.
https://www.shure.com/en-US/support/find-an-answer/stylus-wear-and-record-wear Read the paragraph entitled "Dust and Grit" and by all means read the whole thing. It is a must read for vinyl junkies.
Mijo, I am not sure what bone you are picking with Geoff, but the very same Shure publication you cited has a section on static. There you will find some real experimental results, some of them showing that friction between stylus and vinyl is NOT a significant cause of static electric charge on LPs. The mere act of removing an LP from its sleeve is much more to blame. As is “us”, the shoes we wear, the carpets we walk on, etc. The Shure article mentions use of electrically conductive vinyl as a preventive measure, but few LPs are made from such material; I think RCA Dynagroove may have been conductive. Also, when you discharge the surface of an LP you are about to play, that charge is merely shifted to the down-side of the LP. When you then remove the LP from the platter mat, the crackling sound that can be heard is the charge re-distributing itself over both surfaces.
Shure incorporated a brush into some versions of the V15 that removed static ahead of the path of the stylus; that’s why I suggest that the reason for the OP’s finding with two different cartridges might have something to do with how they are constructed, whether there is a path from the cartridge into the tonearm to drain static charge, etc.
another easy way to dissipate an electric charge is using a carbon brush that has a grounding cable on it. Oracle (the record player co)made a model years ago not sure if there are others out there, but my oracle brush works wonders to remove static before playing.
Audioquest has a new brush that's supposed to address this issue of a ground path.
Lewm, I think you miss read that. Yes they do mention moving records in and out of sleeves could cause static but it does not. You are only transferring static to the sleeve from a charged record. The amount of rubbing/friction is no where near enough. Again I encourage you to read why friction and heat cause static charges on non conductive objects. It will mean more if you get it from someone other than me. Oh and the Shure brush was attached to the plastic housing of the stylus body. It was not grounded and made things worse not to mention what it did to the skating force. I threw mine away. Thanx for the support sleepwalker65. I still have some hair left. On the bright side static is not even remotely my problem. My records have none. You can lead a horse to water.....
OK geoffkait, you are either kidding or totally out to lunch. Anybody care to comment on which it might be? Anybody care to make a comment on why tonearms skate? I can't bear it. Somebody out there might even believe him! The tone arm is not subject to centripetal force because it is not moving. If Geoff were sitting on the record spinning with it he would be subjected to centripetal force and who knows, might do him some good. Tonearms skate to the middle of the record. Because the tonearm is offset (bent) friction of the stylus in the groove pulls the arm towards the center causing the stylus to lean on the left channel (inside groove). This tendency is counteracted by the anti skating device. This friction also generates thousands of volts of static electricity in just a few minutes. Pulling records in and out of sleeves does not generate static electricity. It is transferred to the sleeve from a hyper charged record and maybe by somebody like geoffkait who is full of static.
The tone arm is not subject to centripetal force because it is not
If your pickup arm is not moving, then static charges are the least of your worries.
Why does a tonearm
skate? ... What does geometry have to do with it? VTF maybe.
Geometry has everything to do with skating forces. For example, a linear tangential tracking arm suffers from no skating force at all. What exactly do you think accounts for that as compared to a pivoted arm?
Cleeds, are you really that ------? The record is moving. Yes geometry is in part responsible for skating. It is called the OFFSET ANGLE. The energy that drives the skating is the friction that pulls the tonearm towards the center of the record. Once more. Zerostats work but as soon as you start playing the record static will build up fast then dust is drawn to the record so your stylus can grind it into the groove. Now, according to geoffkait with two fs, this makes the record sound better. Then he can transfer the dust laden staticey record to the sleeve which will now stick to the record. You have to discharge the record while it is playing. geoffkait with two fs, I suggest that while you are listening to music you stand right in front of your turntable and give it a Zerostat squirt every 15 seconds. Good exercise for your hand. Better yet you could get two Zerostats, one for each hand. Dress like a Mexican Bandit and smoke a big cigar. For those of you who don't want to act like geoffkait with two fs get one of these for $20 and put an end to your problem. https://www.sleevecityusa.com/Antistatic-Record-Cleaning-Arm-p/tac-01.htm. Even cleeds will be able to install one of these. chakster I'm not so sure.
The primary cause of the skating force is the friction force between the stylus and the modulated groove. A skating force is generated because of two factors: (1) the headshell offset angle, and (2) lack of tangency to the groove, which pertains everywhere across the surface of an LP except at the two null points that are created if one follows any of the accepted alignment algorithms. At the two null points, the cantilever is tangent to the groove, but because of headshell offset, a skating force is generated. Thus, there is always a skating force all across the surface of the LP, although it is constantly varying in magnitude. These conditions apply to all pivoted tonearms that are mounted such that the stylus overhangs the pivot and which also have headshell offset. By the way, centripetal or centrifugal force has NOTHING to do with the skating force.
The primary cause of static charge build up on an LP is NOT the friction between the stylus and the groove.
Those are my only points. Mijo, if you have data to dispute the second statement, let’s see it.
The tendency of the stylus and cartridge to be forced inward on a blank section (for which their is virtually no friction) of the record illustrates that friction is not the driving force, it’s the centripetal force. In the case I just described of the blank section, the force of friction is actually toward the outer edge of the record. The innermost side of the groove wears faster than the outermost side if there is no anti-skate mechanism. That’s due to the centripetal force. As I already said, the force of friction due to the stylus riding along the groove is tangent to the direction of motion toward the center. So the force of friction has no inward vector. Hel-loo! This is an obvious case of monkey see, monkey do. 🐒 🐒 🐒
Carbon fiber brush and anti static sleeves work well for me.
Had a Zerostat back in the day. It worked.
Exactly, been using carbon fibre brush for 23 years and zerostat gun for 15 years, never had an issue with static on many turntables with many cartridges. Very simple and very useful devices, normally i don't even need a gun, but in worst situation this device will solve the problem.
Geoff, as regards the skating force, you are either joking or very wrong. What happens on a blank area of vinyl is not a lot different from what happens when the stylus is tracing a groove. Friction and lack of tangency. You can call the skating force a “centripetal force” if you want because in the loose sense of the term, it is.
Lewm, thank you for butting in. Static electricity forms when electrons are transferred from one item to another. For this to happen one item must be non conductive (vinyl). If you look up the triboelectric series PVC is almost at the bottom of the negative side. PVC loves to collect electrons. Transferring electrons requires intimate contact and is aided by friction and heat.(rubbing your feet on the carpet). The tonearm being grounded is a fabulous source of electrons. The stylus with some several thousand PSI of pressure is in extremely intimate contact with the PVC and the spinning turntable provide the friction and heat to make it a great static manufacturing system. The charge migrates quickly across the surface of the record but not the label! Which is why a grounded spindle won't help. If you go back to the triboelectric series paper is a little bit to the positive side. It is a weak electron donor. It will not accept a negative charge. I hope that does it for you.